| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:14 - Nov 25 with 470 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 12:54 - Nov 25 by OldFart71 |
People can come up with whatever figures they like. Virtually every day the Tories will say Labour are costing us x amount of pounds. Labour will point to the covid pandemic and say it cost us another x amount.
How often are these figures correct ? Hardly ever and because neither a large swathe of Tories and Labour didn't want Brexit and in Camerons case didn't think the vote would go that way.
This Country needs to stop wallowing in if's and butts, pull its socks up and work it's way out of the mess it's in. Stop throwing money at things and sort out the waste that goes on within departments. |
Righto - why did no-one ever think about that? |  | |  |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:16 - Nov 25 with 469 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 11:58 - Nov 25 by Kievthegreat |
Firstly, £90bn - £9bn is still over £80bn, so still pissing money down the drain.
Secondly, while your point about the Euro is pointless because you've introduced an extra scenario no-one was talking about on top of the existing hypothetical, our interest rates would be 2% as that is the ECB's base rate. |
I say this as a remainer, but whilst that lower interest rate might seem appealing, it’s actually just reflective of underlying structural weaknesses in the Eurozone, I.e. slower economic growth, and higher unemployment than the UK. It’s a tad disingenuous to frame it as a benefit of staying in the EU.
They’ve pumped over 5 trillion Euro’s of QE to try and get the Eurozone growing, the lower interest rates (which even dropped below 0%) are a result of the dreadful metrics rather than outstanding leadership and prosperity in the EU. Would we be better off, marginally yes, but not to the extent we’d have a better standard of living. These Brexit threads just descend into ridiculous hyperbole from both sides of the fence (not aimed at you specifically). |  | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:28 - Nov 25 with 445 views | MattinLondon |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 11:59 - Nov 25 by bsw72 |
Explain how those choosing not to vote are more accountable to be blamed than those who did vote to leave.
I understand the sentiment, but cannot see how that can be argued. |
Blame is probably the wrong word to use - everyone who voted based it upon what they thought was right at the time as well as for the future. Not every Brexiter was like hate-preacher Farage who was only motivated by self-interest - some honestly saw it as the right thing to do.
If we lived in a grown-up country we would’ve seen that the country was efficiently spilt in half and come to some compromise. If remain had won by that margin, the compromise would have been stay in but keep the vetos and stay out of the single currency. Possibly the ‘leave compromise’ would have been leave the EU but stay in the single market and keep freedom of movement. The majority of the country would probably have acquiesced to that.
But we don’t live in a grown-up society we live in a very narrow minded one. |  | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:30 - Nov 25 with 442 views | Vaughan8 |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 10:43 - Nov 25 by Guthrum |
South Wales, an area which voted strongly for Brexit, is littered with signs showing the infrastructure and facilities built with EU money. The benefits were always in plain sight.
As for rejoining the EU, it's not a practical proposition. All the carefully-negotiated exemptions and opt-outs are gone. We'd almost certainly have to join the Euro (economically not helpful). There are those within the Union who would want to exact every ounce of a pound of flesh for what we said and did to them. Spain might block us over Gibraltar. Hungary might veto just to be annoying (and get brownie points with Putin).
Would it be worth the political and public row? Especially at a time when the government is feeling fragile. Better to continue down the route they have been, of steadily rebuilding links and agreements, without dramatic headlines to set the press off. |
I remember seeing on the news these farmers in Wales saying their voting Brexit because of this and that and I knew we were doomed for Brexit then.
They're the ones who benefit from the EU money and they're voting to stop it. Very odd! | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:36 - Nov 25 with 426 views | Prominent_Blue |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 11:57 - Nov 25 by RadioOrwell |
Not an expert but 90 > 9 |
My mistake as it is £9bn per year that we are saving. | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:49 - Nov 25 with 413 views | Bent_double |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:28 - Nov 25 by MattinLondon |
Blame is probably the wrong word to use - everyone who voted based it upon what they thought was right at the time as well as for the future. Not every Brexiter was like hate-preacher Farage who was only motivated by self-interest - some honestly saw it as the right thing to do.
If we lived in a grown-up country we would’ve seen that the country was efficiently spilt in half and come to some compromise. If remain had won by that margin, the compromise would have been stay in but keep the vetos and stay out of the single currency. Possibly the ‘leave compromise’ would have been leave the EU but stay in the single market and keep freedom of movement. The majority of the country would probably have acquiesced to that.
But we don’t live in a grown-up society we live in a very narrow minded one. |
You're so right about us not being grown-up.
Does my head in when all politicians on all sides constantly dig, moan, attack the other side for any decision made.
I don't know if it's the same in other countries, but we seem to get off on it, only happy when complaining rather than coming together to sort problems out.
Policitians are to blame, for sure, but the media too, and ultimately us, as everyone thinks they would do a much better job than whoever's in power. |  |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:57 - Nov 25 with 398 views | Kievthegreat |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:16 - Nov 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I say this as a remainer, but whilst that lower interest rate might seem appealing, it’s actually just reflective of underlying structural weaknesses in the Eurozone, I.e. slower economic growth, and higher unemployment than the UK. It’s a tad disingenuous to frame it as a benefit of staying in the EU.
They’ve pumped over 5 trillion Euro’s of QE to try and get the Eurozone growing, the lower interest rates (which even dropped below 0%) are a result of the dreadful metrics rather than outstanding leadership and prosperity in the EU. Would we be better off, marginally yes, but not to the extent we’d have a better standard of living. These Brexit threads just descend into ridiculous hyperbole from both sides of the fence (not aimed at you specifically). |
TBF my answer was to his 'what would it be?', to which the answer is 'we know, it's not a secret'. Not really meant to advertise the Euro as a benefit, just to dispel his strawman and panicking.
Obviously the fullest answer is we don't know for sure as our being in the Euro would have an effect on their interest rates. However it's likely to be within 1-2% of whatever we have now. ECB and BoE base rates rise and fall together for the most part. Sometimes by slightly more or slightly less, but no major divergences in decades. [Post edited 25 Nov 14:18]
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:58 - Nov 25 with 392 views | Kievthegreat |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 12:54 - Nov 25 by OldFart71 |
People can come up with whatever figures they like. Virtually every day the Tories will say Labour are costing us x amount of pounds. Labour will point to the covid pandemic and say it cost us another x amount.
How often are these figures correct ? Hardly ever and because neither a large swathe of Tories and Labour didn't want Brexit and in Camerons case didn't think the vote would go that way.
This Country needs to stop wallowing in if's and butts, pull its socks up and work it's way out of the mess it's in. Stop throwing money at things and sort out the waste that goes on within departments. |
It does need to pull up it's socks and work it way out of the mess. First step should be talking to the EU and talking about re-joining the single market. | | | |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:59 - Nov 25 with 390 views | MattinLondon |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:49 - Nov 25 by Bent_double |
You're so right about us not being grown-up.
Does my head in when all politicians on all sides constantly dig, moan, attack the other side for any decision made.
I don't know if it's the same in other countries, but we seem to get off on it, only happy when complaining rather than coming together to sort problems out.
Policitians are to blame, for sure, but the media too, and ultimately us, as everyone thinks they would do a much better job than whoever's in power. |
All countries are probably the same in that regards. Posters who reside overseas will be much better equipped to properly answering whether they are or not.
But a lot about politics does leave me cold - it hasn’t always, but for whatever reason it simply feels so childish and not fit for purpose.
PMQs it’s probably the best example for pointless dick swinging. If we had politicians who, regardless of whether they are in opposition or not, could listen to other peoples ideas instead of simply dismissing them or making some whatabouty statement, the country would be on a major better state. It’s not just them though - politics is just tribal just like football. In an ideal world, I’d scrap political parties with each MP elected on their own personal manifesto. Or that could be the elected second chamber where everyone is an independent. I’m just going off on one now. [Post edited 25 Nov 14:00]
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:31 - Nov 25 with 366 views | mellowblue |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:30 - Nov 25 by Vaughan8 |
I remember seeing on the news these farmers in Wales saying their voting Brexit because of this and that and I knew we were doomed for Brexit then.
They're the ones who benefit from the EU money and they're voting to stop it. Very odd! |
at least they weren't sold out like the fishermen were. | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:40 - Nov 25 with 358 views | mellowblue |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:59 - Nov 25 by MattinLondon |
All countries are probably the same in that regards. Posters who reside overseas will be much better equipped to properly answering whether they are or not.
But a lot about politics does leave me cold - it hasn’t always, but for whatever reason it simply feels so childish and not fit for purpose.
PMQs it’s probably the best example for pointless dick swinging. If we had politicians who, regardless of whether they are in opposition or not, could listen to other peoples ideas instead of simply dismissing them or making some whatabouty statement, the country would be on a major better state. It’s not just them though - politics is just tribal just like football. In an ideal world, I’d scrap political parties with each MP elected on their own personal manifesto. Or that could be the elected second chamber where everyone is an independent. I’m just going off on one now. [Post edited 25 Nov 14:00]
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PMQs isn't really representative of the work of the 2 houses of Parliament both in the chambers and out of them. Politics has always been combative and partisan in this country. There is real dislike between both sides (particularly from the left) born from long rivalry and constantly renewed because of the need to be re-elected every few years. It was worse in Dickens times and earlier. The Whigs and Tories detested eachother. Violence was commonplace. | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:42 - Nov 25 with 355 views | J2BLUE |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:10 - Nov 25 by StokieBlue |
Just imagine how many immigrants we could have afforded if we had stayed.
SB |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:49 - Nov 25 with 343 views | Ralphinho |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 10:52 - Nov 25 by Guthrum |
Nobody knew what they were voting for.
Not so much lies, but that Brexit was pretty much undefined before the Referendum - and for some time afterwards. The fact that we were still debating what form it would take nearly three and a half years later (while the foolishly-started clock was ticking down to zero) is truly bizarre. Negotiations as a result were haphazard and the final "deal" a cobbled-together shambles, full of loose ends.
I'm far angrier about the way Brexit was enacted (if you want to dignify it with a word implying any structure or conscious intent) than the original decision. |
Arguably even more bonkers to vote for something completely undefined... |  |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:54 - Nov 25 with 331 views | Ralphinho |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:07 - Nov 25 by mellowblue |
If in a parallel world we were still in the E.U and were generating that 70-210 billion annually, would that actually be enough to generate 90 billion annually? I hardly think so. Currently the UK government collect roughly 39% of UK GDP. Which gives a range of 27-81 billion. |
Fills that £20B black hole though doesn't it! | |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:00 - Nov 25 with 327 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 13:16 - Nov 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I say this as a remainer, but whilst that lower interest rate might seem appealing, it’s actually just reflective of underlying structural weaknesses in the Eurozone, I.e. slower economic growth, and higher unemployment than the UK. It’s a tad disingenuous to frame it as a benefit of staying in the EU.
They’ve pumped over 5 trillion Euro’s of QE to try and get the Eurozone growing, the lower interest rates (which even dropped below 0%) are a result of the dreadful metrics rather than outstanding leadership and prosperity in the EU. Would we be better off, marginally yes, but not to the extent we’d have a better standard of living. These Brexit threads just descend into ridiculous hyperbole from both sides of the fence (not aimed at you specifically). |
It's a moot point anyway, as we weren't in the Eurozone and still wouldn't be had we not committed that idiotic act of self harm. It's just another Brexiteer strawman that they're so fond of. Just like the 80 million Turks who were about to move here. |  |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:34 - Nov 25 with 281 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:54 - Nov 25 by Ralphinho |
Fills that £20B black hole though doesn't it! |
The black hole is a lot bigger than that - it wouldn’t even pay the annual servicing of our debt though, a huge sum which could be spent on public services. There’s been multiple acts of economic harm from our politicians in the last couple of decades. | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:39 - Nov 25 with 277 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 11:41 - Nov 25 by Pinewoodblue |
It really is time to stop blaming those who voted for Brexit.
The people who should be blamed are those who didn’t bother to vote.
A breakdown of who voted, published in Guardian back in the day
The results found that 64% of those young people who were registered did vote, rising to 65% among 25-to-39-year-olds and 66% among those aged between 40 and 54. It increased to 74% among the 55-to-64 age group and 90% for those aged 65 and over.
Responsibility for the result lies with the age groups most affected by the outcome. |
So if a young person didn't know, because they weren't educated enough to understand the economic and political implications they are more at fault than those who didn't know and voted leave. As if. |  |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:45 - Nov 25 with 264 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 14:40 - Nov 25 by mellowblue |
PMQs isn't really representative of the work of the 2 houses of Parliament both in the chambers and out of them. Politics has always been combative and partisan in this country. There is real dislike between both sides (particularly from the left) born from long rivalry and constantly renewed because of the need to be re-elected every few years. It was worse in Dickens times and earlier. The Whigs and Tories detested eachother. Violence was commonplace. |
Why particularly from the left? Is this a historical claim? Or do you mean recently, post Brexit? I'm interested in why you think particularly one side. | |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:53 - Nov 25 with 242 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:00 - Nov 25 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a moot point anyway, as we weren't in the Eurozone and still wouldn't be had we not committed that idiotic act of self harm. It's just another Brexiteer strawman that they're so fond of. Just like the 80 million Turks who were about to move here. |
True although we’d almost certainly have to join the Euro if we went back in to the EU. Personally I see EEA admission as the best option, single market access without some of the politically toxic debate around rejoining (and likely wouldn’t require us to join the Euro). Undoubtedly the loss of the single market and increased customs has contributed to the UK having some of the worst inflation in the western world. | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:58 - Nov 25 with 223 views | J2BLUE |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:53 - Nov 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
True although we’d almost certainly have to join the Euro if we went back in to the EU. Personally I see EEA admission as the best option, single market access without some of the politically toxic debate around rejoining (and likely wouldn’t require us to join the Euro). Undoubtedly the loss of the single market and increased customs has contributed to the UK having some of the worst inflation in the western world. |
Do we really think they wouldn't let us keep the pound? If that was the big sticking point I really can't see it being a problem, even if joiners and re-joiners are supposed to adopt the Euro.
The EU is much stronger with us. I just can't see that being a massive issue. They would be happy we were going back after testing the water. I'm sure we would have a worse deal than before but can't see that bit being the sticking point. | |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 16:00 - Nov 25 with 218 views | mellowblue |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 15:00 - Nov 25 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a moot point anyway, as we weren't in the Eurozone and still wouldn't be had we not committed that idiotic act of self harm. It's just another Brexiteer strawman that they're so fond of. Just like the 80 million Turks who were about to move here. |
Well, someone's got to run all those Turkish barbers popping up everywhere!! | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 16:49 - Nov 25 with 189 views | blueislander |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 10:21 - Nov 25 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Yeah, but, what about our sovereignty.
Or something. |
Just teo words
BLUE PASSPORTS | | | |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 17:05 - Nov 25 with 168 views | bournemouthblue |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 11:41 - Nov 25 by Pinewoodblue |
It really is time to stop blaming those who voted for Brexit.
The people who should be blamed are those who didn’t bother to vote.
A breakdown of who voted, published in Guardian back in the day
The results found that 64% of those young people who were registered did vote, rising to 65% among 25-to-39-year-olds and 66% among those aged between 40 and 54. It increased to 74% among the 55-to-64 age group and 90% for those aged 65 and over.
Responsibility for the result lies with the age groups most affected by the outcome. |
The young historically have had very little put forward for them to vote for
When Corbyn did, the press accused them of being bribes where as the triple lock isn't of course
He was popular with young even if he never was the answer
Can you imagine how the press would have behaved if he'd proposed furlough during CoVid? |  |
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| Only one part of the picture… on 17:53 - Nov 25 with 128 views | J2BLUE |
| Only one part of the picture… on 12:01 - Nov 25 by iaijn |
Now our bananas (or was it cucumbers?) can go back to being curved (or was it straight?).
Something which BentDouble singularly fails to point out, perhaps because it doesn't quite fit in with his blinkered view of the world. |
What's with the friendly posts on wotb? | |
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| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 18:00 - Nov 25 with 115 views | BlueBadger |
| Brexit loses upto £90b a year in tax revenue on 11:41 - Nov 25 by Prominent_Blue |
So we just discount the £9bn we no longer have to pay to Europe since we left ? Thank goodness we never joined the Euro either. Who knows where our interest rates and ability to control our own finances would be now. |
Just so you know, £90bn lost is a lot more than £9bn 'gained'. |  |
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