| Shocking 22:05 - Jan 16 with 32972 views | Vic |
JC hasn’t yet responded to Mays invitation to meet with her to find a way forward. |  |
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| Shocking on 23:10 - Jan 16 with 5941 views | giant_stow |
| Shocking on 22:11 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Good old Jezza. He's met with the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Bashar al-Assad and all manner of nasty people. All in the name of dialogue according to his fan club.
But he refuses to meet with Mrs May unless she accepts his terms. |
In fairness, everyone has to draw a line somewhere. |  |
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| Shocking on 23:12 - Jan 16 with 5924 views | Bluesquid |
| Shocking on 22:11 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Good old Jezza. He's met with the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Bashar al-Assad and all manner of nasty people. All in the name of dialogue according to his fan club.
But he refuses to meet with Mrs May unless she accepts his terms. |
22 British civilians including children were killed in the Manchester Arena bombing.
The Manchester Arena bomber was allowed re-entry to the UK, this after fighting in Libya and having contact with terrorist groups including ISIS.
All under Theresa May's watch as Home Secretary. |  | | |
| Shocking on 05:58 - Jan 17 with 5878 views | BlueRaider |
A huge part of the problem is some politicians (including JC) wanting no deal taken off the table. I don't want no deal, but the threat that we might just walk away was always our best bargaining chip. The weakness and squabbling from the government and our MPs allowed the EU to pretty much get what they want in the negotiation. | |
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| Shocking on 07:16 - Jan 17 with 5849 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
It would seem to make sense that he pops around for a cuppa and tells her to her face.........for negotiations no deal needs keeping on the table. |  |
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| Shocking on 07:43 - Jan 17 with 5834 views | JakeITFC |
| Shocking on 22:47 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
2 years? The Chequers deal was only put forward in July and the latest deal evolved from that. The deal is about 2 months old not 2 years.
You can't rule out no deal as it is in the law that we leave on March 29 and if we don't do a dea by then then no deal is the default.
Added to which, as EG points out, it's the only leverage May has. The EU don't want us leaving with no deal. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 22:50]
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The red lines of May’s negotiation have made this deal what it is though, blindly ploughing through a negotiation that was never going to pass the house. |  | | |
| Shocking on 08:20 - Jan 17 with 5808 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Shocking on 07:43 - Jan 17 by JakeITFC |
The red lines of May’s negotiation have made this deal what it is though, blindly ploughing through a negotiation that was never going to pass the house. |
The red lines were set out in her Mansion House speech of March 2018. That’s ten months ago not two years.
Sometimes it’s better just to admit to being wrong rather than digging deeper. |  |
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| Shocking on 08:25 - Jan 17 with 5809 views | itfcjoe |
| Shocking on 22:23 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
That's why a general election would have made no difference.
Momentum is with a people's vote. A large number of Labour MP's have signed a petition calling for one. I wonder if one of the Labour moderates will oppose him for the leadership again in the hope that the younger voters who backed Corbyn the last time, not realising his Eurosceptic stance, will turn against him in the hope a new leader will push for a people's vote? |
How would a leadership challenge work now? |  |
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| Shocking on 08:28 - Jan 17 with 5806 views | itfcjoe |
| Shocking on 22:52 - Jan 16 by Vic |
He’s wrong in not responding immediatey to her offer to have some input. This is the man who when elected spoke about having. Anew sort of politics, one that spoke civilly to people, one that talked and negotiated with people rather than lecturing and shouting at them from a distance. Oh my, how things have changed! He won’t meet her because he has nothing to say, nothing to add and hopes that by keeping his distance he can make it seem like it’s all the Tories fault. Well sorry JC, if you don’t meet her then you have just forfieted that option. [Post edited 16 Jan 2019 22:52]
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She doesn't listen to anyone in her own party, let alone cross party.
She is a loner, not a leader - thankfully the Grieve amendment went in otherwise she would just be killing time for a few weeks rather than a few days before trying to get exactly the same deal through.
She is basically still at the stage of 'Brexit means Brexit'. She has had 2 years to try and sort something, but has appealed to no one. She can't work with people, she can't influence people - bar be bloody minded what can she do? | |
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| Shocking on 08:30 - Jan 17 with 5799 views | StokieBlue |
| Shocking on 22:11 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Good old Jezza. He's met with the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Bashar al-Assad and all manner of nasty people. All in the name of dialogue according to his fan club.
But he refuses to meet with Mrs May unless she accepts his terms. |
He's being torn apart on the radio.
It's a ridiculous position to have taken. The presenter said exactly what you've said with regards to who he has met. Blair sticking the boot in now.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Shocking on 08:32 - Jan 17 with 5792 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Shocking on 08:25 - Jan 17 by itfcjoe |
How would a leadership challenge work now? |
The PLP would pas another motion of no confidence in Jezza. They would then put somebody up against him who would promise another referendum and hope the members vote for their man/woman. | |
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| Shocking on 08:35 - Jan 17 with 5787 views | artsbossbeard |
She's refused to listen to anyone for 2.5 years and calls out an individual for not falling into HER party line 2.5 hours later. She’ll be playing more and more on how little time is left now without any sense of irony that it’s running out because of her!
This all stems from the UK's arrogance that the EU needed us more than we needed them. They truly believed that the threat of a no deal would force the EU to bend over backwards. Along the way they forgot that this was made up to win leave voters.
The deal that we were offered was so bad 2/3 of MPs turned against her. And somehow she's trying to turn this on Corbyn not playing nicely.
In fairness to TM, it's a sh1tty stick. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Shocking on 08:38 - Jan 17 with 5778 views | phillev231069 |
| Shocking on 22:11 - Jan 16 by ElderGrizzly |
Which makes no sense, as it literally is the only leverage she has.
He doesn’t want to get involved, as there being no progress was his best chance of forcing a GE |
Not forgetting she doesn't want to piiss of any more members of her party by taking no deal off the table in case she loses another no confidence vote. She and her party are inept at negotiation hence why we are in this mess. Corbyn may not have the answers but there again he didn't create the problem the Tories did! | | | |
| Shocking on 08:39 - Jan 17 with 5771 views | Dubtractor |
| Shocking on 08:35 - Jan 17 by artsbossbeard |
She's refused to listen to anyone for 2.5 years and calls out an individual for not falling into HER party line 2.5 hours later. She’ll be playing more and more on how little time is left now without any sense of irony that it’s running out because of her!
This all stems from the UK's arrogance that the EU needed us more than we needed them. They truly believed that the threat of a no deal would force the EU to bend over backwards. Along the way they forgot that this was made up to win leave voters.
The deal that we were offered was so bad 2/3 of MPs turned against her. And somehow she's trying to turn this on Corbyn not playing nicely.
In fairness to TM, it's a sh1tty stick. |
Nailed it. |  |
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| Shocking on 08:40 - Jan 17 with 5761 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Shocking on 08:30 - Jan 17 by StokieBlue |
He's being torn apart on the radio.
It's a ridiculous position to have taken. The presenter said exactly what you've said with regards to who he has met. Blair sticking the boot in now.
SB |
Seems like a lot of energy is going in to a side show irrelevance.....it could be argued, despite my earlier post, that if no deal is as dangerous for the economy and worker's rights as you think then this is a principled and necessary prerequisite. This would make the people fanning the side show flames the ones that should take a look at themselves and spurious motivations when there are more pressing real issues to be solved. | |
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| Shocking on 08:55 - Jan 17 with 5721 views | GlasgowBlue |
You said her “red lines” which were set out in the Mansion House speech of March 2018.
Your original point was that she ploughed on for “two years” knowing that she couldn’t get this deal through the HOC yet nearly 600 of the MP’s elected to the HOC stood on The Labour and Tory manifestos which started we would leave the single market and end freedom of movement.
The leader of the opposition and his shadow chancellor have stated this several times since the referendum in 2016.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/23/labour-would-leave-single-marke
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-free-movement-peopl
She is hopeless. She should have pulled the deal back in December. She should resign.
But you are doubling down in your error that she presented this deal two years ago. She didn’t. [Post edited 17 Jan 2019 8:57]
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| Shocking on 09:01 - Jan 17 with 5696 views | JakeITFC |
| Shocking on 08:55 - Jan 17 by GlasgowBlue |
You said her “red lines” which were set out in the Mansion House speech of March 2018.
Your original point was that she ploughed on for “two years” knowing that she couldn’t get this deal through the HOC yet nearly 600 of the MP’s elected to the HOC stood on The Labour and Tory manifestos which started we would leave the single market and end freedom of movement.
The leader of the opposition and his shadow chancellor have stated this several times since the referendum in 2016.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/23/labour-would-leave-single-marke
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-free-movement-peopl
She is hopeless. She should have pulled the deal back in December. She should resign.
But you are doubling down in your error that she presented this deal two years ago. She didn’t. [Post edited 17 Jan 2019 8:57]
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I was illustrating that the key parts of her negotiation have been known for a long time.
The deal has been doomed to fail for a long time.
Both of these things have happened within a 2-year window.
My point about the crowing about Corbyn not taking an olive branch remains valid, because there is no reason for this not to have become a cross-party piece months ago. | | | |
| Shocking on 09:08 - Jan 17 with 5677 views | lowhouseblue |
| Shocking on 09:01 - Jan 17 by JakeITFC |
I was illustrating that the key parts of her negotiation have been known for a long time.
The deal has been doomed to fail for a long time.
Both of these things have happened within a 2-year window.
My point about the crowing about Corbyn not taking an olive branch remains valid, because there is no reason for this not to have become a cross-party piece months ago. |
do you think she expected the deal to succeed, or that she believed one decisive vote in the commons was ever going to achieve an outcome? this was always going to run to the wire with the hardliners gradually coming to understand what won't get through the commons. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Shocking on 09:08 - Jan 17 with 5673 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Shocking on 09:01 - Jan 17 by JakeITFC |
I was illustrating that the key parts of her negotiation have been known for a long time.
The deal has been doomed to fail for a long time.
Both of these things have happened within a 2-year window.
My point about the crowing about Corbyn not taking an olive branch remains valid, because there is no reason for this not to have become a cross-party piece months ago. |
“The deal has been doomed for a long time”.
Yes. Since Boris resigned when the draft was presented at Chequers in July of last year. Nit 2 years ago as you stated.
FFS.
Before that she was talking in wishy washy soundbites of “Brexit means Brexit” and “ a red white and blue Brexit”.
Also a majority of the house, including the DUP and the Res Mogg mob agreed with her red lines. One by one she crossed those red lines hence the reason she lost support for the deal. [Post edited 17 Jan 2019 9:10]
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| Shocking on 09:10 - Jan 17 with 5670 views | Cotty |
| Shocking on 22:11 - Jan 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Good old Jezza. He's met with the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Bashar al-Assad and all manner of nasty people. All in the name of dialogue according to his fan club.
But he refuses to meet with Mrs May unless she accepts his terms. |
Ha! |  | | |
| Shocking on 09:11 - Jan 17 with 5670 views | JakeITFC |
| Shocking on 09:08 - Jan 17 by lowhouseblue |
do you think she expected the deal to succeed, or that she believed one decisive vote in the commons was ever going to achieve an outcome? this was always going to run to the wire with the hardliners gradually coming to understand what won't get through the commons. |
A case can be made for that - which is why getting no deal off the table is important. | | | |
| Shocking on 09:12 - Jan 17 with 5667 views | Superfrans |
I'm utterly fed up with this. They are all as bad as each other.
Last night's "PM address" was a thinly veiled attempt to take the moral high ground against Labour/Corbyn.
Corbyn should meet and have the conversation with May, regardless of what other conversations have taken place in the corridors of HoC about what is in and what is out.
It's this kind of nonsense posturing which landed us with a crazy referendum in the first place.
Stuff the politics. Sort the country out. When will they get the message? |  |
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| Shocking on 09:12 - Jan 17 with 5665 views | lowhouseblue |
| Shocking on 09:11 - Jan 17 by JakeITFC |
A case can be made for that - which is why getting no deal off the table is important. |
no deal will never happen. the commons will not allow it. there would be a back bench revolt led by the speaker to stop it. but it's still a negotiation and time pressure is one of the cards may has available to her. she can't simply throw it away. [Post edited 17 Jan 2019 9:13]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Shocking on 09:12 - Jan 17 with 5663 views | itfc48 |
In my eyes her invitation to meet the other leaders was nothing more than a PR stunt. May is so single minded she won't listen to a word the others say. It's very clever as if they reject the meeting the look bad however if they take the meeting they will be associated with whatever she comes up with next. | | | |
| Shocking on 09:17 - Jan 17 with 5648 views | lowhouseblue |
| Shocking on 09:12 - Jan 17 by itfc48 |
In my eyes her invitation to meet the other leaders was nothing more than a PR stunt. May is so single minded she won't listen to a word the others say. It's very clever as if they reject the meeting the look bad however if they take the meeting they will be associated with whatever she comes up with next. |
she has no choice but to negotiate with those who voted against the deal. she needs a majority for something. and it needs to be something that doesn't create an permanent split in her party. she needs the tory hard liners to be realistic about what they can achieve given that it will need majority support. however, in the end she doesn't need consensus. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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