| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol 15:41 - Jun 7 with 28323 views | Mullet |
Wanton act of destruction? Political statement? Bad PR?
I'm not sure this is quite the same as when they pulled down statues of Saddam in Iraq for example. Strikes me as simply ammo for the critics and little else. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:29 - Jun 7 with 1851 views | gordon |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:20 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that.
In reference to your edit, most mass murderers are well known. I'd never heard of this person and now many people won't hear of him going forward as there is no reference point.
I agree it would be nice if he could be remembered in the way he deserves without any focal point but I don't realistically think that's the case for someone like him. The comparisons to statues of Hitler really aren't equalities.
As I've said, I understand why it was toppled and have no problem with it, I just suspect in 20 or 30 years he will be totally forgotten, not even a footnote in history for the majority.
SB [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:25]
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Why should he be remembered? |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:30 - Jun 7 with 1843 views | PhilTWTD |
I think Clarkson Court in Woodbridge is named after his brother John, another abolitionist who is buried there. |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:30 - Jun 7 with 1842 views | Plums |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:20 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that.
In reference to your edit, most mass murderers are well known. I'd never heard of this person and now many people won't hear of him going forward as there is no reference point.
I agree it would be nice if he could be remembered in the way he deserves without any focal point but I don't realistically think that's the case for someone like him. The comparisons to statues of Hitler really aren't equalities.
As I've said, I understand why it was toppled and have no problem with it, I just suspect in 20 or 30 years he will be totally forgotten, not even a footnote in history for the majority.
SB [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:25]
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Full explanation in this thread here:
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:32 - Jun 7 with 1833 views | syntaxerror |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:10 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
It seems his statue coming down today has educated more people about him than leaving it up for another hundred years would have done |
Nice post Joe.. respect for summing this up in one sentence :) |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:32 - Jun 7 with 1831 views | vapour_trail |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:20 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that.
In reference to your edit, most mass murderers are well known. I'd never heard of this person and now many people won't hear of him going forward as there is no reference point.
I agree it would be nice if he could be remembered in the way he deserves without any focal point but I don't realistically think that's the case for someone like him. The comparisons to statues of Hitler really aren't equalities.
As I've said, I understand why it was toppled and have no problem with it, I just suspect in 20 or 30 years he will be totally forgotten, not even a footnote in history for the majority.
SB [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:25]
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There were a lot of Colston’s.
Statues for them all doesn’t feel appropriate.
Liam Rosenior’s tweet was linked somewhere on here earlier. Imagine being a black kid going to Colston Primary school and learning about how your school got it’s name. It’s crazy really.
It is possible to teach future generations on our past without tributes to the wronguns to ensure we don’t forget. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:33 - Jun 7 with 1830 views | DanTheMan |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:28 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
I've not said there was anything honourable about it. I said I totally understand why the statue was toppled.
I just feel that without a focal point, people like this will be forgotten to history when that really shouldn't be the case. I think that's the realistic view of the situation.
If you take your point to the logical conclusion there will be very few statues left in the UK from any time before about 1980.
SB |
Apologies if you thought I meant to imply that you found them honourable. That wasn't my intent, that's just my reasoning on the purpose of statues.
I don't think there is any problem with there not being loads of historical statues around the place, outside of maybe museums. They do a far better job of framing the issues more than a small plaque ever could.
And I also think that some can be excused for holding views that were just very common at the time, such as Churchill. I don't think people need to be perfect to the moral standards of modern times to have a statue, but I think things such as being not just involved in but directly benefiting from the slave trade should be reason enough for the removal of statues. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:33 - Jun 7 with 1820 views | SpruceMoose |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:24 - Jun 7 by DanTheMan |
"A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat"
From a cultural point of view, I just fundamentally disagree with this. We don't put statues up of just generally infamous people, they are usually in honour of people.
And I find nothing honourable in the slave trade. |
Indeed. Ain't nobody clamoring for a statue of Mark Fish outside Portman Road. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:34 - Jun 7 with 1822 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:29 - Jun 7 by gordon |
Why should he be remembered? |
Why shouldn't he?
If he's not remembered then his actions are for nothing and the suffering he inflicted on people is lost to history. Do you think that should be the case?
I also take issue with your other post. Nobody is redefining what a statue is for, it's the point that an existing statue can be made to serve another purpose. It's not a new statue going up which would clearly be wrong.
I've also said I don't have a problem with the actions. It is possible to make alternative comments whilst not disagreeing entirely with a course of action.
SB |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:35 - Jun 7 with 1814 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:30 - Jun 7 by Plums |
Full explanation in this thread here:
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Yes, it's been pointed out now.
I think that would have been the right course of action and I am not sure what it was blocked. I do understand why people took action given that blocking though.
SB | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:36 - Jun 7 with 1808 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:32 - Jun 7 by vapour_trail |
There were a lot of Colston’s.
Statues for them all doesn’t feel appropriate.
Liam Rosenior’s tweet was linked somewhere on here earlier. Imagine being a black kid going to Colston Primary school and learning about how your school got it’s name. It’s crazy really.
It is possible to teach future generations on our past without tributes to the wronguns to ensure we don’t forget. |
"Statues for them all doesn’t feel appropriate."
I've clearly not said this. It's an existing statue and highlighting the actions of one is better than none. I do now understand this was being attempted but was being blocked locally for some baffling reason.
"It is possible to teach future generations on our past without tributes to the wronguns to ensure we don’t forget."
We don't do this either in any effective way.
SB [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:37]
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:36 - Jun 7 with 1797 views | SpruceMoose |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:34 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Why shouldn't he?
If he's not remembered then his actions are for nothing and the suffering he inflicted on people is lost to history. Do you think that should be the case?
I also take issue with your other post. Nobody is redefining what a statue is for, it's the point that an existing statue can be made to serve another purpose. It's not a new statue going up which would clearly be wrong.
I've also said I don't have a problem with the actions. It is possible to make alternative comments whilst not disagreeing entirely with a course of action.
SB |
Maybe we should just name crappy stuff after blokes like that? Landfills, sanitation plants, portable toilets, dog poo processing factories! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:42 - Jun 7 with 1773 views | SpruceMoose |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:36 - Jun 7 by SpruceMoose |
Maybe we should just name crappy stuff after blokes like that? Landfills, sanitation plants, portable toilets, dog poo processing factories! |
Football stadiums in Norwich... | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:43 - Jun 7 with 1777 views | vapour_trail |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:36 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
"Statues for them all doesn’t feel appropriate."
I've clearly not said this. It's an existing statue and highlighting the actions of one is better than none. I do now understand this was being attempted but was being blocked locally for some baffling reason.
"It is possible to teach future generations on our past without tributes to the wronguns to ensure we don’t forget."
We don't do this either in any effective way.
SB [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:37]
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That we don’t do it effectively is probably right actually. I studied history and covered in detail, but probably not until uni.
There’s clearly a lot of local knowledge though, the naming of lots of stuff in Bristol really pissed people off, and energised others to defend it, not from the slaver perspective, but the local benefactor.
Maybe this proves your point better than mine! | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:44 - Jun 7 with 1771 views | GlasgowBlue |
And there we have it. Racist in chief inciting his 1.5 million followers to take the law into their own hands.
I wonder if his followers will go looking for random white blokes to give a good kicking to? What do you reckon Gordon? |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:51 - Jun 7 with 1747 views | syntaxerror |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:44 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
And there we have it. Racist in chief inciting his 1.5 million followers to take the law into their own hands.
I wonder if his followers will go looking for random white blokes to give a good kicking to? What do you reckon Gordon? |
Come on Glasgow, using a Farage tweet to justify your opinion isn't needed.
You have just promoted it.
I know your intentions are always good, and though I don't agree with some, I respect your views as a reasoned, intelligent poster. You have just gone a bit 'Hampstead' here.
We should celebrate the destruction of a symbol of slavery. Long overdue. | | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:52 - Jun 7 with 1744 views | SpruceMoose |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:44 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
And there we have it. Racist in chief inciting his 1.5 million followers to take the law into their own hands.
I wonder if his followers will go looking for random white blokes to give a good kicking to? What do you reckon Gordon? |
You wonder a lot.
That's a sign that it's time for you to talk less, listen more, learn more. Show some humility. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:55 - Jun 7 with 1718 views | LankHenners |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:44 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
And there we have it. Racist in chief inciting his 1.5 million followers to take the law into their own hands.
I wonder if his followers will go looking for random white blokes to give a good kicking to? What do you reckon Gordon? |
Desperate even for you.
As if Farage wouldn't have found another way to push this narrative, and as if 1.5 million people are going to start swarming the streets because he said so.
Bit weird for your takeaway to be this rather than showing disgust at the likes of Farage at this type of take. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:58 - Jun 7 with 1691 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:51 - Jun 7 by syntaxerror |
Come on Glasgow, using a Farage tweet to justify your opinion isn't needed.
You have just promoted it.
I know your intentions are always good, and though I don't agree with some, I respect your views as a reasoned, intelligent poster. You have just gone a bit 'Hampstead' here.
We should celebrate the destruction of a symbol of slavery. Long overdue. |
That there are statues of slavers still in place in 21st century Britain is abhorrent. I have no issue with them all being demolished.
It’s how it was demolished and by whom that concerns me. Well intentioned or not black people are going to get the sh1t for this.
That is my point and I stand by it.
Nothing more to add. | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:01 - Jun 7 with 1677 views | footers |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:58 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
That there are statues of slavers still in place in 21st century Britain is abhorrent. I have no issue with them all being demolished.
It’s how it was demolished and by whom that concerns me. Well intentioned or not black people are going to get the sh1t for this.
That is my point and I stand by it.
Nothing more to add. |
Your point is idiotic. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:01 - Jun 7 with 1666 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:55 - Jun 7 by LankHenners |
Desperate even for you.
As if Farage wouldn't have found another way to push this narrative, and as if 1.5 million people are going to start swarming the streets because he said so.
Bit weird for your takeaway to be this rather than showing disgust at the likes of Farage at this type of take. |
What part of “chief racist” did you not see as my disgust for Farage.
What part of my earlier post “ You don't think that the far right will fire up their racist foot soldiers that this vandalism was the fault of people of colour? “ did you not take as my disgust for these rabble rousing w@nkers? | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:03 - Jun 7 with 1653 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:43 - Jun 7 by vapour_trail |
That we don’t do it effectively is probably right actually. I studied history and covered in detail, but probably not until uni.
There’s clearly a lot of local knowledge though, the naming of lots of stuff in Bristol really pissed people off, and energised others to defend it, not from the slaver perspective, but the local benefactor.
Maybe this proves your point better than mine! |
The way history is taught in this country is pathetic.
The British Empire is barely touched, at most some people might learn the map with many countries coloured pink but they learn little of the specifics such as the uprisings in India or the methods used in Africa. It seems easier to teach about European history or the ancient world which whilst excellent is not relevant to everyday life and doesn't contain such difficult questions as those posed by other subjects.
My history A-Level was literally one century or European and British history coupled with the evolution of the historical method. Knowing about the reign of Edward VI doesn't seem to be as worthwhile as learning about British colonial history even just over one century.
Things need to start at the basic curriculum level if anything is going to change.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:03 - Jun 7 with 1646 views | eireblue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:44 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
And there we have it. Racist in chief inciting his 1.5 million followers to take the law into their own hands.
I wonder if his followers will go looking for random white blokes to give a good kicking to? What do you reckon Gordon? |
So the PoC that were involved, should not have done it because a white middle class known racist is being threatening?
Interesting take. |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:05 - Jun 7 with 1638 views | LankHenners |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:01 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
What part of “chief racist” did you not see as my disgust for Farage.
What part of my earlier post “ You don't think that the far right will fire up their racist foot soldiers that this vandalism was the fault of people of colour? “ did you not take as my disgust for these rabble rousing w@nkers? |
Seeing as they're rhetorical questions I don't need to answer them.
I think people can see who's coming off badly in this thread. | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:10 - Jun 7 with 1612 views | syntaxerror |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:58 - Jun 7 by GlasgowBlue |
That there are statues of slavers still in place in 21st century Britain is abhorrent. I have no issue with them all being demolished.
It’s how it was demolished and by whom that concerns me. Well intentioned or not black people are going to get the sh1t for this.
That is my point and I stand by it.
Nothing more to add. |
Right now, with the overriding feeling in the country, if the racists do use this as a 'Call to Arms', they will lose.
This is not America, where the racists have automatic weapons, this is the UK.
Most of them are cowards.
National Front - failed.
BNP - failed.
EDL - failed.
Britain First - failed.
Football Lads Alliance - failed.
We should be proud of this fact. If the far right want to try start a race war, it will be opposed and rejected as quickly and effectively as the above. [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 22:11]
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:11 - Jun 7 with 1606 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 22:03 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
The way history is taught in this country is pathetic.
The British Empire is barely touched, at most some people might learn the map with many countries coloured pink but they learn little of the specifics such as the uprisings in India or the methods used in Africa. It seems easier to teach about European history or the ancient world which whilst excellent is not relevant to everyday life and doesn't contain such difficult questions as those posed by other subjects.
My history A-Level was literally one century or European and British history coupled with the evolution of the historical method. Knowing about the reign of Edward VI doesn't seem to be as worthwhile as learning about British colonial history even just over one century.
Things need to start at the basic curriculum level if anything is going to change.
SB |
I've just finished reading Dictatorland. A very good book, although one that will make you furious and depressed about how Africans have been treated by Europeans and subsequently their own leaders, how brutal life is and how little lives are worth. It will certainly dispel any notions that Africans travelling to Europe are simply economic migrants, particularly the chapter on Eritrea.
It also shows that the days of Empire didn't end when countries were given independence - control was still exercised through and by private companies (particularly oil ones). Shell in particular come out looking very bad, amongst other things by trying to get activists complaining about their environmental destruction executed. |  | | |
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