| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol 15:41 - Jun 7 with 28325 views | Mullet |
Wanton act of destruction? Political statement? Bad PR?
I'm not sure this is quite the same as when they pulled down statues of Saddam in Iraq for example. Strikes me as simply ammo for the critics and little else. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:13 - Jun 7 with 2660 views | brogansnose |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 19:57 - Jun 7 by vapour_trail |
Was it a white crowd that pulled it down then? Bristol is a pretty multi-cultural place. I did see a picture of some black dudes kneeling on the neck of the statue after it came down. |
I see this as a white issue and Its down to white people to take it down and address all that it symbolises. White people operated the slave trade and white people benefited. I take Glassers point but this is a discussion that should have been had a very long time ago and would always have got a negative response from the right. We need to make more people aware and educate people about the slave trade and the perfidious benefit it gave to Britain. I'm not one for some bizzare concept of white grief but at the very least we should'nt be keeping up anachronisms of the likesof the Colston statue and that of Rhodes in Oxford. |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:15 - Jun 7 with 2650 views | gordon |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:12 - Jun 7 by footers |
And? We as white people can also reject symbols of racism and oppression in our own culture. Incredibly even very nice statues that have been part of the town since zzzzz......
A statue of a slave trader is a pretty blatant example. And if you're waiting for the BAME community to tell us what to police in our own extremely white world, then I'm afraid you may be waiting for a while. They've got enough on. [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 20:13]
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Why on earth should a white person be angry about their city honouring and celebrating the life of someone who inflicted misery and death on thousands of black people? |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:19 - Jun 7 with 2642 views | vapour_trail |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:13 - Jun 7 by brogansnose |
I see this as a white issue and Its down to white people to take it down and address all that it symbolises. White people operated the slave trade and white people benefited. I take Glassers point but this is a discussion that should have been had a very long time ago and would always have got a negative response from the right. We need to make more people aware and educate people about the slave trade and the perfidious benefit it gave to Britain. I'm not one for some bizzare concept of white grief but at the very least we should'nt be keeping up anachronisms of the likesof the Colston statue and that of Rhodes in Oxford. |
To be fair this statue, the hall, college and other associated tributes in the town have been pretty divisive for some time.
My old boy moved there in the 90s and lived there until a couple or so years ago, and I remember a few animated conversations in his local up in Clifton on the issue. Very strong feeling on both sides.
He’d have loved to have seen what happened today, had he still been around. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:20 - Jun 7 with 2623 views | jaykay |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 18:56 - Jun 7 by SpruceMoose |
Don't worry, he's got me on ignore. King of his own echo chamber. |
don't worry he can see you   |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:27 - Jun 7 with 2595 views | WeWereZombies |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 16:50 - Jun 7 by The_Major |
As an aside, and I never knew this, the cluster of roads in Ipswich to the north of Handford Road - Emlen Street, Stevenson Road, Wilberforce Street, Benezet Street etc. were all named after leading figures in the movement for abolition of slavery. |
Add Clarkson Street to that list, named after Thomas Clarkson who lived in Suffolk in the later years of his life:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Clarkson |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:27 - Jun 7 with 2592 views | eireblue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:01 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
From watching the video |
That video doesn’t show who put up the rope and then was pulling on that rope.
You made an assumption. Plenty PoC in other pictures and videos of the event.
So the question is the same, why assume PoC didn’t initiate the action? |  | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:29 - Jun 7 with 2586 views | bluelagos |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 19:37 - Jun 7 by BlueBadger |
Apparently Bristol Constabulary are now saying that it just 'tripped and fell down some stairs'. |
Well played sir. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:29 - Jun 7 with 2578 views | WeWereZombies |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 15:52 - Jun 7 by Mullet |
Is it not better to keep him there and remind people of why Bristol is such an important case study? There's an excellent slave museum in Liverpool for example which I think does a great job of that. |
Bristol's Museum's website has a section directing you to the exhibits that tell about the slave trade connections:
https://www.bristolmuseums.org.uk/stories/bristol-transatlantic-slave-trade/ | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:34 - Jun 7 with 2559 views | itfcjoe |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:27 - Jun 7 by eireblue |
That video doesn’t show who put up the rope and then was pulling on that rope.
You made an assumption. Plenty PoC in other pictures and videos of the event.
So the question is the same, why assume PoC didn’t initiate the action? |
It’s pretty obvious why, as I’ve explained
Edit: seen a photo, 3 white guys putting the rope on, being supported by a black girl. You can see the white people pulling the rope too. [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 20:38]
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:37 - Jun 7 with 2534 views | gordon |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:34 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
It’s pretty obvious why, as I’ve explained
Edit: seen a photo, 3 white guys putting the rope on, being supported by a black girl. You can see the white people pulling the rope too. [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 20:38]
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But you wouldn't have a problem if it had been, what, a 60% black 40% white crowd? | | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:42 - Jun 7 with 2511 views | itfcjoe |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:37 - Jun 7 by gordon |
But you wouldn't have a problem if it had been, what, a 60% black 40% white crowd? |
I think those who are going to bear any brunt for the actions taken should be those doing the more high profile actions.
Those that aren’t going to bear any blame doing those will not help any cause | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:50 - Jun 7 with 2490 views | gordon |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:42 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
I think those who are going to bear any brunt for the actions taken should be those doing the more high profile actions.
Those that aren’t going to bear any blame doing those will not help any cause |
So maybe 30-70 would've been OK, as long as the black people were doing the more high profile stuff?
EDIT: 50-50? [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 20:55]
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:50 - Jun 7 with 2488 views | DanTheMan |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 16:13 - Jun 7 by gordon |
'History' isn't erased or eradicated because a statue comes down.
It's important that we remember Hitler, for example, but that wouldn't be considered a sound argument for having a statue of Hitler in the centre of Bristol. |
I realise this is early in the thread, but I have to agree with this.
I've never understood why people thinking that removing statues somehow erases them from history. I'm sure there is still plenty of information out there for people who are interested in him, it's about not having a statue celebrating them. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:56 - Jun 7 with 2458 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
I am not surprised at all that in a BLM movement Churchill statues have been targeted as he was incredibly racist. Brilliant military leader, horrific person. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:05 - Jun 7 with 2422 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:50 - Jun 7 by DanTheMan |
I realise this is early in the thread, but I have to agree with this.
I've never understood why people thinking that removing statues somehow erases them from history. I'm sure there is still plenty of information out there for people who are interested in him, it's about not having a statue celebrating them. |
Why would someone be interested in a person that barely anyone has heard of if there isn't something to remind them of him and his unacceptable actions?
He would disappear into history like countless wronguns before him. That is the reality of the situation.
A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat.
I understand the actions and have no problem with them. I just think it could have been a focal point highlighting the issues rather than something to be destroyed. He will be forgotten in 20 years as will his actions. If the statue was there with information on what he did that wouldn't be the case.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:06 - Jun 7 with 2420 views | vapour_trail |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 20:50 - Jun 7 by DanTheMan |
I realise this is early in the thread, but I have to agree with this.
I've never understood why people thinking that removing statues somehow erases them from history. I'm sure there is still plenty of information out there for people who are interested in him, it's about not having a statue celebrating them. |
I’m pretty sure Jimmy Savile will still be remembered in spite of the controversial decision taken to remove the statue of him that stood in Glasgow.
Of course tributes erected to figures subsequently judged in a different light through history, should be removed, particularly when they are a reminder of trauma.
The decision should have been taken through official channels long ago. Be interesting to see if charges are brought forward against those who will be pretty easily identifiable. | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:09 - Jun 7 with 2403 views | vapour_trail |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:05 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Why would someone be interested in a person that barely anyone has heard of if there isn't something to remind them of him and his unacceptable actions?
He would disappear into history like countless wronguns before him. That is the reality of the situation.
A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat.
I understand the actions and have no problem with them. I just think it could have been a focal point highlighting the issues rather than something to be destroyed. He will be forgotten in 20 years as will his actions. If the statue was there with information on what he did that wouldn't be the case.
SB |
I’m sorry but that’s boIIocks.
You might as well put a statue of PRP next to the one of SBR. | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:10 - Jun 7 with 2400 views | itfcjoe |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:05 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Why would someone be interested in a person that barely anyone has heard of if there isn't something to remind them of him and his unacceptable actions?
He would disappear into history like countless wronguns before him. That is the reality of the situation.
A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat.
I understand the actions and have no problem with them. I just think it could have been a focal point highlighting the issues rather than something to be destroyed. He will be forgotten in 20 years as will his actions. If the statue was there with information on what he did that wouldn't be the case.
SB |
It seems his statue coming down today has educated more people about him than leaving it up for another hundred years would have done | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:12 - Jun 7 with 2386 views | vapour_trail |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:10 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
It seems his statue coming down today has educated more people about him than leaving it up for another hundred years would have done |
Outside Bristol yes.
The whole Colston branding across the city is a point of pain to many in the city. | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:15 - Jun 7 with 2369 views | footers |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:10 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
It seems his statue coming down today has educated more people about him than leaving it up for another hundred years would have done |
Good point. More people will have been educated about racism and the slave trade thanks to the actions today instead of it being left up. And as an added bonus, Bristol loses a permanent celebration of a slave trader. Win-win. |  |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:17 - Jun 7 with 2362 views | gordon |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:05 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Why would someone be interested in a person that barely anyone has heard of if there isn't something to remind them of him and his unacceptable actions?
He would disappear into history like countless wronguns before him. That is the reality of the situation.
A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat.
I understand the actions and have no problem with them. I just think it could have been a focal point highlighting the issues rather than something to be destroyed. He will be forgotten in 20 years as will his actions. If the statue was there with information on what he did that wouldn't be the case.
SB |
There had been efforts made to have an explanation put on the statue for a long time, but attempts to do so had been hijacked by a local society which pretty much exists to protect his reputation.
The other thing, obviously, is that the point of statues (until today at least) isn't to draw people's attention to mass murderers. [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:20]
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:20 - Jun 7 with 2345 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:17 - Jun 7 by gordon |
There had been efforts made to have an explanation put on the statue for a long time, but attempts to do so had been hijacked by a local society which pretty much exists to protect his reputation.
The other thing, obviously, is that the point of statues (until today at least) isn't to draw people's attention to mass murderers. [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:20]
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Fair enough, I wasn't aware of that.
In reference to your edit, most mass murderers are well known. I'd never heard of this person and now many people won't hear of him going forward as there is no reference point.
I agree it would be nice if he could be remembered in the way he deserves without any focal point but I don't realistically think that's the case for someone like him. The comparisons to statues of Hitler really aren't equalities.
As I've said, I understand why it was toppled and have no problem with it, I just suspect in 20 or 30 years he will be totally forgotten, not even a footnote in history for the majority.
SB [Post edited 7 Jun 2020 21:25]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:24 - Jun 7 with 2332 views | DanTheMan |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:05 - Jun 7 by StokieBlue |
Why would someone be interested in a person that barely anyone has heard of if there isn't something to remind them of him and his unacceptable actions?
He would disappear into history like countless wronguns before him. That is the reality of the situation.
A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat.
I understand the actions and have no problem with them. I just think it could have been a focal point highlighting the issues rather than something to be destroyed. He will be forgotten in 20 years as will his actions. If the statue was there with information on what he did that wouldn't be the case.
SB |
"A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat"
From a cultural point of view, I just fundamentally disagree with this. We don't put statues up of just generally infamous people, they are usually in honour of people.
And I find nothing honourable in the slave trade. | |
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| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:28 - Jun 7 with 2322 views | gordon |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:24 - Jun 7 by DanTheMan |
"A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat"
From a cultural point of view, I just fundamentally disagree with this. We don't put statues up of just generally infamous people, they are usually in honour of people.
And I find nothing honourable in the slave trade. |
Yes, it's really, really surprising that so many people are trying to justify having a statue of a slave trader by redefining what a statue is for. | | | |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:28 - Jun 7 with 2321 views | StokieBlue |
| Colston statue pulled down by protestors in Bristol on 21:24 - Jun 7 by DanTheMan |
"A statue doesn't have to celebrate. It can act as a focal point on history and what not to repeat"
From a cultural point of view, I just fundamentally disagree with this. We don't put statues up of just generally infamous people, they are usually in honour of people.
And I find nothing honourable in the slave trade. |
I've not said there was anything honourable about it. I said I totally understand why the statue was toppled.
I just feel that without a focal point, people like this will be forgotten to history when that really shouldn't be the case. I think that's the realistic view of the situation.
If you take your point to the logical conclusion there will be very few statues left in the UK from any time before about 1980.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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