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Seeing as we are approaching the presidential debates, and with the actual election being only 42 days away, maybe we could keep this as a US election megathread for those on here who are interested? One location for all the discussion would prevent multiple threads clogging up the board for those who don't care to get involved?
Personally, the reality of having to experience this election in the near future is stressful AF so if anyone else wants to get stressed together... Jump on board.
Now, insert all the usual caveats about polling here but...it's looking positive that we will be rid of Trump come 2021, much to the disappointment of a couple of posters on here. 538 are well respected in the field of poll analysis so what they announce should be taken seriously.
Of course their analysis doesn't take account of any election fraud, Russian interference, voter suppression etc. But it's positive news none the less. Once Trump is gone, we can work on Johnson. Decent people of the world... Unite!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
In the words of ArnoldMoorHen. "But it's difficult to understand and takes a while to explain, and most of it is soooo boring. " ............ but soooo important to resist.
If it were written, no problem, but just don't have the capacity to listen to/watch a 2 inch screen right now.
US election megathread on 10:46 - Nov 10 by Ryorry
Not got 10 minutes to listen - any summary available, pretty please? x
It's worth it. He uses a list of "Identifiable attributes of a fascist regime" and posits the view that just as Social Democracy is a diluted form of Socialism, that Trumpism can be seen as a fascism-lite when weighed by the criteria in the list.
Worth 10 minutes of your time when you have it. I'm struck by the fact that Johnson/Gove/Cummings have ticked off everything and more, and that it's only the "lite" tag which is debatable, here and now.
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US election megathread on 13:04 - Nov 10 with 1822 views
US election megathread on 12:09 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue
RealClearPolitics have just put Pennsylvania back into "grey". No sure if this is significant or if they know something the rest of us don't regarding the legal challenges.
You've been pretty clued up on this stuff EG. Is it time to get worried.
The time to be worried has been with us for a while - that being down to the huge number of incredibly stupid people the 2016 referendum and US election have shown there are among us.
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US election megathread on 13:32 - Nov 10 with 1802 views
US election megathread on 08:45 - Nov 10 by Oldsmoker
Maybe it's Facism-lite. This is Beau. He's a prepper but to his credit also an original thinker. He gives his thoughts on what the USA is.
Very good. His idea of a de facto/ blended fascism is chillingly accurate, not just for the US but perhaps more so in the UK where establishment power (and the cosy relationship between politics, the media and corporate interests) seems to run even deeper and less transparently.
And when “opposition” to the right is based on a centre-right approach then we’re really not doing anything positive to arrest or reverse that slide. We’re certainly not applying the necessary checks and balances.
Pronouns: He/Him
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US election megathread on 13:51 - Nov 10 with 1791 views
US election megathread on 12:09 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue
RealClearPolitics have just put Pennsylvania back into "grey". No sure if this is significant or if they know something the rest of us don't regarding the legal challenges.
You've been pretty clued up on this stuff EG. Is it time to get worried.
I wouldn't say we can never be worried, simply because this administration has made it clear it doesn't care for the law.
However, there is absolutely nothing to say there is fraud, yet alone at the scale Trump and his goons are trying to make out.
This is about destabilising Biden and also about money.
Trump and the RNC/GOP are currently emailing 10 million plus people once every hour asking for money to "fight the stolen election". Spoiler, none of the money goes to this. 60% goes to paying Trump Campaign debts, 40% goes to the RNC coffers. If he concedes, the money dries up.
So now, unless something ridiculously underhand happens, this is still very much Biden's election. For context, Trump would need to overturn 255,000 votes across 5 states to be President.
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US election megathread on 14:11 - Nov 10 with 1767 views
US election megathread on 13:51 - Nov 10 by ElderGrizzly
I wouldn't say we can never be worried, simply because this administration has made it clear it doesn't care for the law.
However, there is absolutely nothing to say there is fraud, yet alone at the scale Trump and his goons are trying to make out.
This is about destabilising Biden and also about money.
Trump and the RNC/GOP are currently emailing 10 million plus people once every hour asking for money to "fight the stolen election". Spoiler, none of the money goes to this. 60% goes to paying Trump Campaign debts, 40% goes to the RNC coffers. If he concedes, the money dries up.
So now, unless something ridiculously underhand happens, this is still very much Biden's election. For context, Trump would need to overturn 255,000 votes across 5 states to be President.
RCP and Newsmax are shameless GOP cheerleaders. They're safely ignored in this matter.
"Newsmax sent an email to its subscriber list asserting that "the WORST thing you could do is get a vaccine when it becomes available" because "vaccines are one of the biggest health scares of our lifetime–a scam perpetuated among the American people."
The email encouraged recipients to instead do something "far more effective" by subscribing to a health newsletter for $39.95 per year. Once recipients signed up for the newsletter, they received a sales pitch to purchase a dietary supplement with "an advanced formula targeted to support your immune system health."
As for RCP, they are so far up Trump's bottom that they were running hit articles on Fauci all summer and telling people not to worry about Trump tampering with the USPS, all the while undermining the legitimacy of absentee voting. They've been laying the groundwork to help Trump carry out this desperate gambit for a loooong time now.
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 14:25]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
And as Spruce said, the source is utterly unreliable.
On a different topic, our own Government have shown they weren't sure who won
somewhat unbelievably, there really is a hidden message congratulating Trump just about visible underneath the graphic Boris Johnson tweeted congratulating Biden on his win. I have no idea why Downing Street just didn't start a new image, or why they are so bad at Photoshop pic.twitter.com/RLY0SV0680
US election megathread on 11:53 - Nov 10 by ArnoldMoorhen
In addition to Trumpism, he just described the Michael Gove playbook to the letter, just missing out "attacks on the independence of the judiciary".
We are witnessing the move to Fascism under Gove/Cummings. The financial difficulties that we will face post-Brexit will heighten it, but will give plenty of ammunition to blame it on the enemy without, the EU for deliberately not giving us the deal we deserved, and the enemy within, Remainers and Human Rights Lawyers for undermining our Government and not backing Britain.
How can people not see that we tick every box?
The Government has even passed Enabling Acts! Ministers can now make Law without Parliamentary scrutiny, and the Government is now consulting on removing Judicial Review, the mechanism by which the Government is held to account by the Judiciary.
But it's difficult to understand and takes a while to explain, and most of it is soooo boring.
We should be very alarmed at the politicisation of the ex-Armed Forces community, too. Mussolini and Hitler both actively recruited WW1 veterans to the Black shirts and Brown shirts respectively to intimidate opposition and create fear. The "bagpiper shove" video is an example of how the tag "Veteran" is now attached to give an automatic claim to moral supremacy. We aren't very far away from the militias that we see in the USA. Tommy Robinson and his ilk can be the "useful" arms length populists who can create the climate of fear and set the agenda, which Gove and co can benefit from whilst also being able to disavow them if necessary.
It's really happening, right here.
And, of course, it wouldn't be hard for any fascist Government to find out who wrote this post. And on which device. The security forces have those powers, because we gave them to them during the "war on terror". And now the Government wants to give the security forces the right to break the law without legal review, and to give themselves the power to break international law without any comeback.
It is really happening, right here.
Still,.at least I have the European Court of Human Rights to protect me. I have a right to freedom of expression and belief.
For 50 more days.
Cracking post. Up until he specifically name-dropped the USA he could have easily been talking about us. And it's no surprise really; our lot are using the same playbook and are inter-connected politically and financially with what's happened in the US.
US election megathread on 12:29 - Nov 10 by ArnoldMoorhen
It's worth it. He uses a list of "Identifiable attributes of a fascist regime" and posits the view that just as Social Democracy is a diluted form of Socialism, that Trumpism can be seen as a fascism-lite when weighed by the criteria in the list.
Worth 10 minutes of your time when you have it. I'm struck by the fact that Johnson/Gove/Cummings have ticked off everything and more, and that it's only the "lite" tag which is debatable, here and now.
Thanks, wil try at some point (maybe while on here for tonight's game).
McConnell acknowledging GOP victories on the same ballot paper as one he refuses to acknowledge.
McConnell acknowledges that the election led victories to GOP senators and House members. But for presidential race, he says "no states have yet certified their election results" and Pres. Trump is "100% within his rights" to weigh legal options. He makes no mention of Joe Biden pic.twitter.com/X8rZUXVaOA
US election megathread on 14:43 - Nov 10 by Swansea_Blue
Cracking post. Up until he specifically name-dropped the USA he could have easily been talking about us. And it's no surprise really; our lot are using the same playbook and are inter-connected politically and financially with what's happened in the US.
I thought that if there was interest in that vid from Beau you might watch this one. Are Democrats the same as Republicans? Beaus way forward away from facism-lite is rhetoric and debate. You don't need to change the law just the way people see things. That is how Trump and Gove/Cummins have convinced enough of us that far-right policies are normal while the left did little to call them out.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
US election megathread on 15:31 - Nov 10 by Oldsmoker
I thought that if there was interest in that vid from Beau you might watch this one. Are Democrats the same as Republicans? Beaus way forward away from facism-lite is rhetoric and debate. You don't need to change the law just the way people see things. That is how Trump and Gove/Cummins have convinced enough of us that far-right policies are normal while the left did little to call them out.
Funnily enough, I watched that straight afterwards and nearly posted a reply to Darth's comments further up the thread. I think it's a good defence of the Red Tory accusation of the Blairites. Not that we should need a defence as most of us experienced the Blair/Brown governments and know that they were very different to the regimes we've had since (even if they weren't socialist enough for some, which is fine too).
US election megathread on 15:39 - Nov 10 by Swansea_Blue
Funnily enough, I watched that straight afterwards and nearly posted a reply to Darth's comments further up the thread. I think it's a good defence of the Red Tory accusation of the Blairites. Not that we should need a defence as most of us experienced the Blair/Brown governments and know that they were very different to the regimes we've had since (even if they weren't socialist enough for some, which is fine too).
Beau posts a couple of vids per day. He would never be taken seriously by MSM because they would attack the way he looks. They'd shoot the messenger. However, I think he could write some great speeches for politicians on the left.
Don't believe a word I say. I'm only kidding. Or am I?
US election megathread on 15:39 - Nov 10 by Swansea_Blue
Funnily enough, I watched that straight afterwards and nearly posted a reply to Darth's comments further up the thread. I think it's a good defence of the Red Tory accusation of the Blairites. Not that we should need a defence as most of us experienced the Blair/Brown governments and know that they were very different to the regimes we've had since (even if they weren't socialist enough for some, which is fine too).
But that’s the problem with the “Red Tories” as you put it. They took living, breathing socialism and its policies (like the NHS, education, workers’ rights, progressive taxation) and turned it into rhetoric again.
The US is a different kettle of fish and their resistance to systemic change and socio-economic justice is a very tough journey, as Beau states. But we’ve sleepwalked to their position when all it takes is for us to wake up again.
One of the major problems we have is that we see the world rather too easily as a reflection and contrast between us and the US. While anyone who has travelled around Europe and elsewhere knows there are far more relevant (as well as better functioning and more productive) systems that we should also be comparing ourselves with.
If we woke up then we might see we’ve become a pretty right-wing country that’s become hooked on neoliberalism. And we’re falling behind on so many measures because of that, not least growth and productivity which was meant to be the whole point.
Pronouns: He/Him
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US election megathread on 21:56 - Nov 10 with 1566 views
Who was it on here that suggested Pence for the next president? Was it ArnoldMuhnren?
I’ve just decided that if Trumo resigned, in order to get a pardon, Pence would be the president. And I can’t shake off the feeling that it’s actually a small possibility.
£2.96 at 960.0 on the exchange for him to be the next president. Imagine the limbs. Wanted to post it to this thread just in case it happened.
US election megathread on 14:43 - Nov 10 by Swansea_Blue
Cracking post. Up until he specifically name-dropped the USA he could have easily been talking about us. And it's no surprise really; our lot are using the same playbook and are inter-connected politically and financially with what's happened in the US.
It's a 'special' relationship!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
US election megathread on 22:59 - Nov 10 by Dubtractor
With each passing day this whole thing gets more bizarre doesn't it?
Absolutely farcical.
I'm actually glad that the press over here are treating it as farcical too.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
US election megathread on 23:05 - Nov 10 by SpruceMoose
I'm actually glad that the press over here are treating it as farcical too.
And that's the best way it can go now.
Keep laughing the clown off the face of this.
Still amazed how much support he still has out there though, but can guarantee most of them couldn't explain coherently why in exchange for a million dollars.
Who was it on here that suggested Pence for the next president? Was it ArnoldMuhnren?
I’ve just decided that if Trumo resigned, in order to get a pardon, Pence would be the president. And I can’t shake off the feeling that it’s actually a small possibility.
£2.96 at 960.0 on the exchange for him to be the next president. Imagine the limbs. Wanted to post it to this thread just in case it happened.
Edit - Sod it.. Pence for 17k
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 22:52]
you might want to double-check the market rules for that bet. Assuming its Betfair they say:
"This market will be settled according to the candidate that has the most projected Electoral College votes won at the 2020 presidential election. Any subsequent events such as a ‘faithless elector’ will have no effect on the settlement of this market. In the event that no Presidential candidate receives a majority of the projected Electoral College votes, this market will be settled on the person chosen as President in accordance with the procedures set out by the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution."
But if you can get those odds on a next-president bet that settles on who is actually sworn-in next then lump-on (and tell me where you found it!)
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US election megathread on 03:41 - Nov 11 with 1394 views
US election megathread on 00:27 - Nov 11 by CrayonKing
you might want to double-check the market rules for that bet. Assuming its Betfair they say:
"This market will be settled according to the candidate that has the most projected Electoral College votes won at the 2020 presidential election. Any subsequent events such as a ‘faithless elector’ will have no effect on the settlement of this market. In the event that no Presidential candidate receives a majority of the projected Electoral College votes, this market will be settled on the person chosen as President in accordance with the procedures set out by the Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution."
But if you can get those odds on a next-president bet that settles on who is actually sworn-in next then lump-on (and tell me where you found it!)
Of course the whole thing is totally unlikely, that’s why it’s 1000 on the machine or thereabouts
Point is though they aren’t settling until he concedes or the courts decide (according to a tweet they themselves posted today). Meaning this could still be going on by the court date early next year (you’d assume). I could see pence in before then as the ‘next president’ and at that point, I’d have laid so much off it won’t be an issue. It’s a wild punt for £20 in the end. Totally unlikely but we shall see.
Of course the whole thing is totally unlikely, that’s why it’s 1000 on the machine or thereabouts
Point is though they aren’t settling until he concedes or the courts decide (according to a tweet they themselves posted today). Meaning this could still be going on by the court date early next year (you’d assume). I could see pence in before then as the ‘next president’ and at that point, I’d have laid so much off it won’t be an issue. It’s a wild punt for £20 in the end. Totally unlikely but we shall see.
If they pay out on the scenario that trump goes early and pence is next president then there’s insane value there and the odds should be closer to single figures (trump to go early was 6.4 last I looked) but if you read the rules carefully they’re paying out purely on the election result, not who’s actually sworn in next. Unless there’s a different market somewhere that I’ve missed?
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US election megathread on 10:45 - Nov 11 with 1255 views
US election megathread on 16:06 - Nov 10 by Darth_Koont
But that’s the problem with the “Red Tories” as you put it. They took living, breathing socialism and its policies (like the NHS, education, workers’ rights, progressive taxation) and turned it into rhetoric again.
The US is a different kettle of fish and their resistance to systemic change and socio-economic justice is a very tough journey, as Beau states. But we’ve sleepwalked to their position when all it takes is for us to wake up again.
One of the major problems we have is that we see the world rather too easily as a reflection and contrast between us and the US. While anyone who has travelled around Europe and elsewhere knows there are far more relevant (as well as better functioning and more productive) systems that we should also be comparing ourselves with.
If we woke up then we might see we’ve become a pretty right-wing country that’s become hooked on neoliberalism. And we’re falling behind on so many measures because of that, not least growth and productivity which was meant to be the whole point.
Isn't his point that even though one may see the difference between the 'Red Tories' and the actual Tories only in terms of rhetoric, that rhetoric is still important and worth something as it changes thought?
I'm not sure our journey to a properly socialist nation would be any easier than the USA's. When was the last time we had what you would consider a real socialist government? Must be a while ago now and every element of our whole system would probably need to be changed (and that's assuming we could change people's thoughts from themselves to the collective). Sounds like a long road to me.
My own view is that the blairite version would be much more preferable to the current mess. People and public services were certainly better looked after. I think the infighting in Labour makes that less likely to happen. But I may well be wrong as I'm a product of Maggie's Britain and have probably become used to it. I know those invested in the ideals of a fair and equitable society for all feel very passionately about it and are often much better informed than me (you'll have read and thought a lot more about this than me; I've extended family who were active in Labour's more left leaning side, and they're very informed, clear about what they want and committed).
Maybe I'm wrong and we should be aiming for the stars rather than just trying for minor course adjustments back towards the centre. Completely agree we could learn much from Europe (not Hungary though!).
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