By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Seeing as we are approaching the presidential debates, and with the actual election being only 42 days away, maybe we could keep this as a US election megathread for those on here who are interested? One location for all the discussion would prevent multiple threads clogging up the board for those who don't care to get involved?
Personally, the reality of having to experience this election in the near future is stressful AF so if anyone else wants to get stressed together... Jump on board.
Now, insert all the usual caveats about polling here but...it's looking positive that we will be rid of Trump come 2021, much to the disappointment of a couple of posters on here. 538 are well respected in the field of poll analysis so what they announce should be taken seriously.
Of course their analysis doesn't take account of any election fraud, Russian interference, voter suppression etc. But it's positive news none the less. Once Trump is gone, we can work on Johnson. Decent people of the world... Unite!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Who was it on here that suggested Pence for the next president? Was it ArnoldMuhnren?
I’ve just decided that if Trumo resigned, in order to get a pardon, Pence would be the president. And I can’t shake off the feeling that it’s actually a small possibility.
£2.96 at 960.0 on the exchange for him to be the next president. Imagine the limbs. Wanted to post it to this thread just in case it happened.
Edit - Sod it.. Pence for 17k
[Post edited 10 Nov 2020 22:52]
The lawsuits against Trump are from New York state. Presidents can only pardon federal crimes.
US election megathread on 10:45 - Nov 11 by Swansea_Blue
Isn't his point that even though one may see the difference between the 'Red Tories' and the actual Tories only in terms of rhetoric, that rhetoric is still important and worth something as it changes thought?
I'm not sure our journey to a properly socialist nation would be any easier than the USA's. When was the last time we had what you would consider a real socialist government? Must be a while ago now and every element of our whole system would probably need to be changed (and that's assuming we could change people's thoughts from themselves to the collective). Sounds like a long road to me.
My own view is that the blairite version would be much more preferable to the current mess. People and public services were certainly better looked after. I think the infighting in Labour makes that less likely to happen. But I may well be wrong as I'm a product of Maggie's Britain and have probably become used to it. I know those invested in the ideals of a fair and equitable society for all feel very passionately about it and are often much better informed than me (you'll have read and thought a lot more about this than me; I've extended family who were active in Labour's more left leaning side, and they're very informed, clear about what they want and committed).
Maybe I'm wrong and we should be aiming for the stars rather than just trying for minor course adjustments back towards the centre. Completely agree we could learn much from Europe (not Hungary though!).
I do think there's some red-tinted spectacles about how socialist Europe actually is. They get some representation due to having PR instead of FPTP but the "proper" left parties tend to be junior partners at best and are struggling with the surge towards populism as much as anyone else.
US election megathread on 13:32 - Nov 10 by Darth_Koont
Very good. His idea of a de facto/ blended fascism is chillingly accurate, not just for the US but perhaps more so in the UK where establishment power (and the cosy relationship between politics, the media and corporate interests) seems to run even deeper and less transparently.
And when “opposition” to the right is based on a centre-right approach then we’re really not doing anything positive to arrest or reverse that slide. We’re certainly not applying the necessary checks and balances.
You massively understate the problem in your last paragraph.
Key indicators of a move towards fascist Government in the UK in the last two or three years, largely centring upon the removal of other arms of the State in their ability to act as checks and balances on Government power.
The deselection of Rory Stewart (and subsequent exiling of Sajid Javid) and others to create an "obey the leader" authorised list has quelled dissent, or even meaningful debate, in the Party, and undermined adequate scrutiny in Parliament.
The flurry of Enabling Acts allowing Ministers to pass laws (from May's Government as a response to Withdrawal from European law, to Johnson's with new Ministerial powers as a response to Covid).
The appropriation of the BBC as a State mouthpiece, with political appointments to top posts to follow a Cummings prescribed agenda.
Proliferation of Government messaging in various advertising media: roadside electronic boards, tv ads, leaflets and letters etc on both Brexit and Covid.
Attempt to put security forces beyond the Law, without clear definition in the legislation of limits to that.
Attempt to legislate to put the UK Government beyond International Law.
Attacks by Priti Patel and others on the judiciary and lawyers.
Setting up a review to examine the political impact of Judicial Review, the inconvenient mechanism by which Government decisions can be scrutinised, and potentially over-turned, and Ministers held to account.
Suppression of reports from Parliamentary Committees, or into Ministerial conduct (Priti Patel again).
The illegal Proroguing of Parliament. An assault by the Executive on Parliamentary sovereignty.
And does anyone know the status of moves to replace the Human Rights which we enjoy under European law until 1st January, with primary legislation?
Then the "soft signals":
Demonisation of "the other", creating a common enemy: refugees, asylum seekers and migrants; the BBC; Judges and Human Rights lawyers.
Independent of Government, the appropriation of the ex-Armed Forces community as a political trump card. Connections between ex-Armed Forces groups and Right Wing and QAnon-type groups. This echoes the recruitment of WW1 veterans by Mussolini to his Blackshirts, and Hitler to the SA, or Brown shirts.
Fascism is here. It is happening, primarily under the cloak of Brexit.
8
US election megathread on 13:01 - Nov 11 with 1150 views
In the words of ArnoldMoorHen. "But it's difficult to understand and takes a while to explain, and most of it is soooo boring. " ............ but soooo important to resist.
An important maxim of Cummings and Gove's approach to news management:
"If you're explaining, you're losing."
That's how they approached Brexit, and that's how they're approaching the dismantling of the checks and balances of the British democratic system.
It all takes so much explaining!
1
US election megathread on 13:02 - Nov 11 with 1142 views
US election megathread on 12:55 - Nov 11 by ArnoldMoorhen
You massively understate the problem in your last paragraph.
Key indicators of a move towards fascist Government in the UK in the last two or three years, largely centring upon the removal of other arms of the State in their ability to act as checks and balances on Government power.
The deselection of Rory Stewart (and subsequent exiling of Sajid Javid) and others to create an "obey the leader" authorised list has quelled dissent, or even meaningful debate, in the Party, and undermined adequate scrutiny in Parliament.
The flurry of Enabling Acts allowing Ministers to pass laws (from May's Government as a response to Withdrawal from European law, to Johnson's with new Ministerial powers as a response to Covid).
The appropriation of the BBC as a State mouthpiece, with political appointments to top posts to follow a Cummings prescribed agenda.
Proliferation of Government messaging in various advertising media: roadside electronic boards, tv ads, leaflets and letters etc on both Brexit and Covid.
Attempt to put security forces beyond the Law, without clear definition in the legislation of limits to that.
Attempt to legislate to put the UK Government beyond International Law.
Attacks by Priti Patel and others on the judiciary and lawyers.
Setting up a review to examine the political impact of Judicial Review, the inconvenient mechanism by which Government decisions can be scrutinised, and potentially over-turned, and Ministers held to account.
Suppression of reports from Parliamentary Committees, or into Ministerial conduct (Priti Patel again).
The illegal Proroguing of Parliament. An assault by the Executive on Parliamentary sovereignty.
And does anyone know the status of moves to replace the Human Rights which we enjoy under European law until 1st January, with primary legislation?
Then the "soft signals":
Demonisation of "the other", creating a common enemy: refugees, asylum seekers and migrants; the BBC; Judges and Human Rights lawyers.
Independent of Government, the appropriation of the ex-Armed Forces community as a political trump card. Connections between ex-Armed Forces groups and Right Wing and QAnon-type groups. This echoes the recruitment of WW1 veterans by Mussolini to his Blackshirts, and Hitler to the SA, or Brown shirts.
Fascism is here. It is happening, primarily under the cloak of Brexit.
Excellent post.
"And does anyone know the status of moves to replace the Human Rights which we enjoy under European law until 1st January, with primary legislation?"
This, along with the EU checks and balances on environmental and employment laws, were the primary reasons for voting remain in the referendum for me.
At least half the population of the UK seem to be political sleepwalkers :(
US election megathread on 12:55 - Nov 11 by ArnoldMoorhen
You massively understate the problem in your last paragraph.
Key indicators of a move towards fascist Government in the UK in the last two or three years, largely centring upon the removal of other arms of the State in their ability to act as checks and balances on Government power.
The deselection of Rory Stewart (and subsequent exiling of Sajid Javid) and others to create an "obey the leader" authorised list has quelled dissent, or even meaningful debate, in the Party, and undermined adequate scrutiny in Parliament.
The flurry of Enabling Acts allowing Ministers to pass laws (from May's Government as a response to Withdrawal from European law, to Johnson's with new Ministerial powers as a response to Covid).
The appropriation of the BBC as a State mouthpiece, with political appointments to top posts to follow a Cummings prescribed agenda.
Proliferation of Government messaging in various advertising media: roadside electronic boards, tv ads, leaflets and letters etc on both Brexit and Covid.
Attempt to put security forces beyond the Law, without clear definition in the legislation of limits to that.
Attempt to legislate to put the UK Government beyond International Law.
Attacks by Priti Patel and others on the judiciary and lawyers.
Setting up a review to examine the political impact of Judicial Review, the inconvenient mechanism by which Government decisions can be scrutinised, and potentially over-turned, and Ministers held to account.
Suppression of reports from Parliamentary Committees, or into Ministerial conduct (Priti Patel again).
The illegal Proroguing of Parliament. An assault by the Executive on Parliamentary sovereignty.
And does anyone know the status of moves to replace the Human Rights which we enjoy under European law until 1st January, with primary legislation?
Then the "soft signals":
Demonisation of "the other", creating a common enemy: refugees, asylum seekers and migrants; the BBC; Judges and Human Rights lawyers.
Independent of Government, the appropriation of the ex-Armed Forces community as a political trump card. Connections between ex-Armed Forces groups and Right Wing and QAnon-type groups. This echoes the recruitment of WW1 veterans by Mussolini to his Blackshirts, and Hitler to the SA, or Brown shirts.
Fascism is here. It is happening, primarily under the cloak of Brexit.
Good post. And I agree wholeheartedly with how the current government are overstepping in these areas. My focus here was on the weak opposition to it that more or less enables it.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
US election megathread on 16:48 - Nov 11 with 1025 views
US election megathread on 14:42 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont
Good post. And I agree wholeheartedly with how the current government are overstepping in these areas. My focus here was on the weak opposition to it that more or less enables it.
Indeed. They missed BoJo from that but I’d say he’s the biggest loser here. There’s a massive overlap between support for Johnson and Cummings’ brand of anti-democracy, Brexiteering and UK support for Trump.
Now, it’s the UK that’s looking the biggest basket case. And that degree of exposure is possibly fatal to such an empty and cynical type of politics.
Edit: And Netanyahu. I expect the Democrats to be cowed by AIPAC and others as usual but probably puts the kybosh on the more flagrant annexation plans. Of course, Netanyahu has operated before with Biden at the helm but there’s more awareness of how far-fight they are and the resulting pressure from anti-racist and pro-Palestinian voices will probably come to bear.
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 19:04]
Pronouns: He/Him
0
US election megathread on 19:01 - Nov 11 with 960 views
US election megathread on 18:58 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont
Indeed. They missed BoJo from that but I’d say he’s the biggest loser here. There’s a massive overlap between support for Johnson and Cummings’ brand of anti-democracy, Brexiteering and UK support for Trump.
Now, it’s the UK that’s looking the biggest basket case. And that degree of exposure is possibly fatal to such an empty and cynical type of politics.
Edit: And Netanyahu. I expect the Democrats to be cowed by AIPAC and others as usual but probably puts the kybosh on the more flagrant annexation plans. Of course, Netanyahu has operated before with Biden at the helm but there’s more awareness of how far-fight they are and the resulting pressure from anti-racist and pro-Palestinian voices will probably come to bear.
[Post edited 11 Nov 2020 19:04]
Changing the subject slightly, I don't understand why Biden and co. don't agree to full recount. Play them at their own game, when he's beaten twice he will look like twice the cu...
Football League First Division / Premier League
Champions (1): 1961—62 - Runners-up (2): 1980—81, 1981—82
Football League Second Division / EFL Championship
Champions (3): 1960—61, 1967—68, 1991—92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999—2000
Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953—54, 1956—57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936—37
FA Cup Winners (1): 1977—78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972—73
UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980—81
US election megathread on 10:45 - Nov 11 by Swansea_Blue
Isn't his point that even though one may see the difference between the 'Red Tories' and the actual Tories only in terms of rhetoric, that rhetoric is still important and worth something as it changes thought?
I'm not sure our journey to a properly socialist nation would be any easier than the USA's. When was the last time we had what you would consider a real socialist government? Must be a while ago now and every element of our whole system would probably need to be changed (and that's assuming we could change people's thoughts from themselves to the collective). Sounds like a long road to me.
My own view is that the blairite version would be much more preferable to the current mess. People and public services were certainly better looked after. I think the infighting in Labour makes that less likely to happen. But I may well be wrong as I'm a product of Maggie's Britain and have probably become used to it. I know those invested in the ideals of a fair and equitable society for all feel very passionately about it and are often much better informed than me (you'll have read and thought a lot more about this than me; I've extended family who were active in Labour's more left leaning side, and they're very informed, clear about what they want and committed).
Maybe I'm wrong and we should be aiming for the stars rather than just trying for minor course adjustments back towards the centre. Completely agree we could learn much from Europe (not Hungary though!).
I’m not talking about a socialist country. I admire socialist perspectives and values and I admire capitalist perspectives and values. I want genuine social democracy which is a balance of the two and certainly a proper balance against the insanity of neoliberalism.
Blair’s Third Way was unfortunately a soft right fudge that appealed to those who already had power and money. Put a bit of imperialism and overseas shenanigans on top of it and there was no balance at all.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
US election megathread on 07:50 - Nov 12 with 790 views
US election megathread on 19:01 - Nov 11 by TieDyedIn95
Changing the subject slightly, I don't understand why Biden and co. don't agree to full recount. Play them at their own game, when he's beaten twice he will look like twice the cu...
You can count it a hundred times and it won't make a difference to how he'll react - he's not suddenly going to say, ok I was wrong. He'll just push on with fraud chat
US election megathread on 19:01 - Nov 11 by TieDyedIn95
Changing the subject slightly, I don't understand why Biden and co. don't agree to full recount. Play them at their own game, when he's beaten twice he will look like twice the cu...
A full recount would take a lot of money, resources and time to appease the mad ramblings of a wannabe dictator. In the midst of a global downturn in economy due to covid-19, agreeing to a full recount based on a string of baseless accusations would be reckless.
Also, as soon as a full recount is agreed to, you have both of the main politcal parties in the US saying "Democracy didn't work" - which further sends the country up the creek on the world stage.
Trump is doing what he has always done when he loses by a set of rules, try to rewrite the rule book.
I highly recommend you watch this video and see the correlations to what he's doing right now in politics (and because it is quite entertaining)
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
