| Depressing 10:57 - Oct 10 with 13090 views | Darth_Koont |
If you can’t get yourself ahead of the Tories on current showing then something’s not right, is it? |  |
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| Depressing on 12:49 - Oct 10 with 5386 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Depressing on 11:02 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
It may show that you and your friends are wrong.
Have you ever thought that may be the case?
There does seem to be a disproportionate number of anti government posts here. Compared to the election I mean.
or
Those who shout loud and with barbs and assumptions stop debate?
Now there is a thought.
Where are all the voices of the people who voted for Brexit and the Tories? The majority I mean.
They can't all be embarrassed and silent. Maybe you and your little angry mob are dissuading them from posting their views.
Just a thought.
Am off to town so won't be able to see the torrents of abuse and assumption but will check back after lunch. |
The 'disproportionate' number of anti-government posts on here is probably because this is a place where we generally have reasonably well-informed debate.
Many of those supporting the government are incapable of participating in such debates and responding to them with facts often eventually leads to them skulking off complaining about being bullied (I guess they prefer social media where you can post complete crap without being challenged on it). You are quite rare in repeatedly coming back for more despite having your arse handed to you on a plate on a daily basis, although you do seem to simply ignore many of the responses to you.
Also, a majority didn't vote for the Tories. |  | | |
| Depressing on 12:49 - Oct 10 with 5381 views | Mullet |
| Depressing on 12:26 - Oct 10 by Vic |
I often disagree with stuff you put on her HB, but on this I make you right.
The level of derision that’s comes your way on here when you post something that differs from others opinion just makes it not worth while at the moment. It feels like a cancel culture by mockery. It’s a shame, but there you go. I still pretty much to football posts now, or just not posting at all (which I’m sure pleases some!) PS - I didn’t vote Tory last election! |
I don't think that's fair at all. Plenty of people give him the benefit of the doubt time and again, but he increasingly posts illogical stuff and fantasises about violence towards imaginery social monsters far too often.
If an idea or viewpoint is inherently good or right it gets treated as such. When people get mocked or derided for what they post, that's not them being mocked and derided and too often that distinction is lost by people who know ultimately they're view is selfish/wrong/delusional when scrutinised.
The bullying excuse wears a bit thin when there has been actual cases of people going far far over that line and seemingly proud to do so.
The fact this is a forum that doesn't tolerate discrimination and bigotry should be celebrated. The internet has been overrun with right-wing hate speech thanks to the way in which the government has destroyed any accountability for the press wherever possible. |  |
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| Depressing on 12:50 - Oct 10 with 5372 views | Darth_Koont |
| Depressing on 12:26 - Oct 10 by m14_blue |
Yes, we disagree on this, I remain far more hopeful although accept we still haven't really seen what he stands for yet.
I think hammy views anyone remotely left of centre as one amorphous Chairman Mao shaped blob. His mind would be blown to discover that I didn't like Corbyn and you don't like Starmer, which is why he'll just ignore it. |
I don’t dislike Starmer though. Just worried that a Labour Party in thrall to the Labour right is missing the point - both electorally and most importantly in what the UK in 2020 needs from an opposition and its policies.
We’re back to the weak politics that contributed to the last 10 years of chaos by not addressing structural/systemic issues when it had the chance. And that’s even before we address Brexit, Covid, the environment, automation, AI and whatever else comes over the horizon.
We’ve become a backward country in no small part because we are unable to move forward even when the Tories prove themselves much worse. | |
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| Depressing on 12:53 - Oct 10 with 5360 views | m14_blue |
| Depressing on 12:50 - Oct 10 by Darth_Koont |
I don’t dislike Starmer though. Just worried that a Labour Party in thrall to the Labour right is missing the point - both electorally and most importantly in what the UK in 2020 needs from an opposition and its policies.
We’re back to the weak politics that contributed to the last 10 years of chaos by not addressing structural/systemic issues when it had the chance. And that’s even before we address Brexit, Covid, the environment, automation, AI and whatever else comes over the horizon.
We’ve become a backward country in no small part because we are unable to move forward even when the Tories prove themselves much worse. |
Ok, poor choice of words.
Substitute 'like' for 'rate', which is also a better description of my view on Corbyn too.
I agree with the rest of your post, I just think it's far too soon to characterise Starmer's leadership as 'in thrall to the Labour right'. Give him a chance and I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
He is much better at the political side of things but that isn't necessarily mutually exclusive from being genuinely progressive. [Post edited 10 Oct 2020 12:55]
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| Depressing on 13:02 - Oct 10 with 5337 views | Trequartista |
Are you inferring the last Labour leader would be doing better? |  |
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| Depressing on 13:08 - Oct 10 with 5327 views | Dubtractor |
| Depressing on 12:44 - Oct 10 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Indeed - although clearly there is more work to be done, the bar for Labour is actually winning elections, not just improving but still losing (see also 2017) |
Yep, I'm under no illusion that if there was an election today the tories would win. |  |
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| Depressing on 13:08 - Oct 10 with 5327 views | Darth_Koont |
| Depressing on 12:53 - Oct 10 by m14_blue |
Ok, poor choice of words.
Substitute 'like' for 'rate', which is also a better description of my view on Corbyn too.
I agree with the rest of your post, I just think it's far too soon to characterise Starmer's leadership as 'in thrall to the Labour right'. Give him a chance and I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
He is much better at the political side of things but that isn't necessarily mutually exclusive from being genuinely progressive. [Post edited 10 Oct 2020 12:55]
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I think his handling of the Labour leaks, the Forde inquiry and the EHRC report that now seem to not be an issue and how he’s dismantling his own pledges are concerning enough.
Trying to be soft Tories and promoting their agenda of family, nation and opportunity is also setting the scene for a war they really can’t win. They’re going to be outflanked because they’ve decided that the soft establishment route will pay off. But that was in 1997 when they could count on Scotland and traditional Labour support.
They’re 3+ years out from a general election with no discernible values or policies intact. | |
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| Depressing on 13:13 - Oct 10 with 5320 views | Darth_Koont |
| Depressing on 13:02 - Oct 10 by Trequartista |
Are you inferring the last Labour leader would be doing better? |
I’m inferring that the last Labour leader’s policies are better.
Labour under Starmer has been given a free ride by the press so far against a Tory government that’s now synonymous with chaos and failure (and being openly criticized by their cheerleaders). So I’m really inferring that there’s no excuse for not being in the lead unless there are bigger problems with our electoral system and political debate. | |
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| Depressing on 13:36 - Oct 10 with 5287 views | HARRY10 |
Gosh, polls fluctuating between an acceptable margin of error - whatever next ? | | | |
| Depressing on 14:06 - Oct 10 with 5271 views | Trequartista |
| Depressing on 13:13 - Oct 10 by Darth_Koont |
I’m inferring that the last Labour leader’s policies are better.
Labour under Starmer has been given a free ride by the press so far against a Tory government that’s now synonymous with chaos and failure (and being openly criticized by their cheerleaders). So I’m really inferring that there’s no excuse for not being in the lead unless there are bigger problems with our electoral system and political debate. |
I don't see how you infer from this poll that Corbyn's policies were better, after he suffered a big election defeat with them. Do you think he would now be ahead?
I would agree Starmer has not been the focus of the press but Labour are in a bit of no-win situation with Coronavirus at the moment. They want stricter lockdowns but they also want to be seen to be supporting workers jobs, and that's an almost impossible balancing act.
Come election time, I'm sure the right-wing press will start sharpening their knives for Starmer, particularly his socialist past from the late 1980s | |
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| Depressing on 14:24 - Oct 10 with 5254 views | hampstead_blue |
| Depressing on 12:49 - Oct 10 by Clapham_Junction |
The 'disproportionate' number of anti-government posts on here is probably because this is a place where we generally have reasonably well-informed debate.
Many of those supporting the government are incapable of participating in such debates and responding to them with facts often eventually leads to them skulking off complaining about being bullied (I guess they prefer social media where you can post complete crap without being challenged on it). You are quite rare in repeatedly coming back for more despite having your arse handed to you on a plate on a daily basis, although you do seem to simply ignore many of the responses to you.
Also, a majority didn't vote for the Tories. |
He shoots, he scores.
Many of those supporting the government are incapable of participating in such debates and responding to them with facts often eventually leads to them skulking off complaining about being bullied
I don't think I need say anything to counter you. In fact, just replying is saying too much. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Depressing on 14:30 - Oct 10 with 5245 views | hampstead_blue |
| Depressing on 13:13 - Oct 10 by Darth_Koont |
I’m inferring that the last Labour leader’s policies are better.
Labour under Starmer has been given a free ride by the press so far against a Tory government that’s now synonymous with chaos and failure (and being openly criticized by their cheerleaders). So I’m really inferring that there’s no excuse for not being in the lead unless there are bigger problems with our electoral system and political debate. |
I fear for you if you genuinely feel that JC nailed it.
JC is proven to be a vile sniveling little wretch. Stealing a salary from an institution he would burn down.
The majority of the press is left leaning. The BBC and C4 lead the way in left leaning bias.
They will happily promote anything which hints at disquiet. Any Labour MP who wants to blindly criticize gets a slot. Some of the recent BBC web copy has been embarrassing.
KS has had an easy run by the media because they are for him.
I know there are backbenchers who are prodding BJ, that's been the case since day 1. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Depressing on 14:30 - Oct 10 with 5243 views | SpruceMoose |
| Depressing on 14:24 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
He shoots, he scores.
Many of those supporting the government are incapable of participating in such debates and responding to them with facts often eventually leads to them skulking off complaining about being bullied
I don't think I need say anything to counter you. In fact, just replying is saying too much. |
Oh no! I was really looking forward to hearing your reasonable thoughts too.
The post you replied to was spot on in my opinion. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Depressing on 14:36 - Oct 10 with 5227 views | eireblue |
| Depressing on 11:02 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
It may show that you and your friends are wrong.
Have you ever thought that may be the case?
There does seem to be a disproportionate number of anti government posts here. Compared to the election I mean.
or
Those who shout loud and with barbs and assumptions stop debate?
Now there is a thought.
Where are all the voices of the people who voted for Brexit and the Tories? The majority I mean.
They can't all be embarrassed and silent. Maybe you and your little angry mob are dissuading them from posting their views.
Just a thought.
Am off to town so won't be able to see the torrents of abuse and assumption but will check back after lunch. |
Another poster that likes to play the victim card. |  | | |
| Depressing on 14:39 - Oct 10 with 5214 views | SpruceMoose |
| Depressing on 14:36 - Oct 10 by eireblue |
Another poster that likes to play the victim card. |
"What do you mean people will judge me for my words and actions?!" | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Depressing on 14:40 - Oct 10 with 5211 views | SpruceMoose |
| Depressing on 14:30 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
I fear for you if you genuinely feel that JC nailed it.
JC is proven to be a vile sniveling little wretch. Stealing a salary from an institution he would burn down.
The majority of the press is left leaning. The BBC and C4 lead the way in left leaning bias.
They will happily promote anything which hints at disquiet. Any Labour MP who wants to blindly criticize gets a slot. Some of the recent BBC web copy has been embarrassing.
KS has had an easy run by the media because they are for him.
I know there are backbenchers who are prodding BJ, that's been the case since day 1. |
An incredible post in so many different ways. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Depressing on 14:42 - Oct 10 with 5206 views | Vic |
| Depressing on 12:49 - Oct 10 by Mullet |
I don't think that's fair at all. Plenty of people give him the benefit of the doubt time and again, but he increasingly posts illogical stuff and fantasises about violence towards imaginery social monsters far too often.
If an idea or viewpoint is inherently good or right it gets treated as such. When people get mocked or derided for what they post, that's not them being mocked and derided and too often that distinction is lost by people who know ultimately they're view is selfish/wrong/delusional when scrutinised.
The bullying excuse wears a bit thin when there has been actual cases of people going far far over that line and seemingly proud to do so.
The fact this is a forum that doesn't tolerate discrimination and bigotry should be celebrated. The internet has been overrun with right-wing hate speech thanks to the way in which the government has destroyed any accountability for the press wherever possible. |
I didn’t word my reply to HB well - I wasn’t referring to HB’s posts, I was referring solely to when anyone posts some different to the hive opinion, however gently it seems to be worded. HB is frequently unnecessarily provocative in his posts and pushes his point when he should just let it go. |  |
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| Depressing on 14:42 - Oct 10 with 5202 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Depressing on 11:02 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
It may show that you and your friends are wrong.
Have you ever thought that may be the case?
There does seem to be a disproportionate number of anti government posts here. Compared to the election I mean.
or
Those who shout loud and with barbs and assumptions stop debate?
Now there is a thought.
Where are all the voices of the people who voted for Brexit and the Tories? The majority I mean.
They can't all be embarrassed and silent. Maybe you and your little angry mob are dissuading them from posting their views.
Just a thought.
Am off to town so won't be able to see the torrents of abuse and assumption but will check back after lunch. |
The tyranny of the majority (or tyranny of the masses) is an inherent weakness to majority rule in which the majority of an electorate pursues exclusively its own objectives at the expense of those of the minority factions.
Majority <> correct |  |
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| Depressing on 14:44 - Oct 10 with 5196 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Depressing on 14:30 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
I fear for you if you genuinely feel that JC nailed it.
JC is proven to be a vile sniveling little wretch. Stealing a salary from an institution he would burn down.
The majority of the press is left leaning. The BBC and C4 lead the way in left leaning bias.
They will happily promote anything which hints at disquiet. Any Labour MP who wants to blindly criticize gets a slot. Some of the recent BBC web copy has been embarrassing.
KS has had an easy run by the media because they are for him.
I know there are backbenchers who are prodding BJ, that's been the case since day 1. |
"The majority of the press is left leaning."
My goodness. Will the self-owns never end?
[edit] Honestly beginning to wonder whether you are living in some kind of alternate reality. [Post edited 10 Oct 2020 14:45]
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| Depressing on 14:46 - Oct 10 with 5186 views | Mullet |
| Depressing on 14:42 - Oct 10 by Vic |
I didn’t word my reply to HB well - I wasn’t referring to HB’s posts, I was referring solely to when anyone posts some different to the hive opinion, however gently it seems to be worded. HB is frequently unnecessarily provocative in his posts and pushes his point when he should just let it go. |
That really isn’t the case though is it? Maybe it happens sometimes but as a default? | |
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| Depressing on 14:46 - Oct 10 with 5185 views | Mullet |
| Depressing on 14:44 - Oct 10 by Clapham_Junction |
"The majority of the press is left leaning."
My goodness. Will the self-owns never end?
[edit] Honestly beginning to wonder whether you are living in some kind of alternate reality. [Post edited 10 Oct 2020 14:45]
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Presumably he means anatomically and he’s talking b0llocks? | |
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| Depressing on 16:23 - Oct 10 with 5142 views | solomon |
| Depressing on 13:13 - Oct 10 by Darth_Koont |
I’m inferring that the last Labour leader’s policies are better.
Labour under Starmer has been given a free ride by the press so far against a Tory government that’s now synonymous with chaos and failure (and being openly criticized by their cheerleaders). So I’m really inferring that there’s no excuse for not being in the lead unless there are bigger problems with our electoral system and political debate. |
JC had way too much baggage. It kind off catches up with you in the end unfortunately. I suspect given what we know now he sees it as a blessing in disguise. |  | | |
| Depressing on 16:52 - Oct 10 with 5116 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Depressing on 12:26 - Oct 10 by gordon |
There's still a rump of the electorate, probably around 40% I'd guess, who aren't aware of, and are probably never going to understand how self-defeating, pointless absurd Brexit is, both in terms of the conception and the implementation. Those people are likely to continue to support the conservatives come what may until it seems like the process is over.
I imagine that the conservatives recognise that to maintain the support of those people they need to continue to engineer conflicts and disagreements with the EU for as long as possible, to create the perception that we need to 'stand up to them'. Whether it works or not I don't know, but Cummings et al have obviously been pretty successful at manipulating people for their own ends over the last five years or so. |
Behave yourself. Brexit was imperative. |  |
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| Depressing on 16:59 - Oct 10 with 5099 views | tractordownsouth |
| Depressing on 14:30 - Oct 10 by hampstead_blue |
I fear for you if you genuinely feel that JC nailed it.
JC is proven to be a vile sniveling little wretch. Stealing a salary from an institution he would burn down.
The majority of the press is left leaning. The BBC and C4 lead the way in left leaning bias.
They will happily promote anything which hints at disquiet. Any Labour MP who wants to blindly criticize gets a slot. Some of the recent BBC web copy has been embarrassing.
KS has had an easy run by the media because they are for him.
I know there are backbenchers who are prodding BJ, that's been the case since day 1. |
This Right Wing victim culture is becoming a bit silly. |  |
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| Depressing on 16:59 - Oct 10 with 5097 views | tractordownsouth |
| Depressing on 16:52 - Oct 10 by The_Last_Baron |
Behave yourself. Brexit was imperative. |
You got those no deal benefits? | |
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