| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) 13:07 - Oct 29 with 25649 views | Ewan_Oozami |
According to my highly dodgy Twitter feed... [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 13:10]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 08:57 - Oct 30 with 730 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 08:53 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
Couple of points here.
1. If you are seriously suggesting that all of this is a smear campaign from ‘crappy centrist career politicians’ then you are part of the problem.
2. What’s Corbyn if he’s not a career politician? He’s never had a job outside politics in his life! |
One point here Paz, you appear to have by-passed a whole heap of comments pointing out your glaring inconsistencies!
Edit....and where did I say "all' and at least Corbyn's politics was grounded in sincerity but yes I am suspicious of all of them tbf.
Edit 2...all politicians, not all of the claims for clarity. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 9:04]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:00 - Oct 30 with 718 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 08:57 - Oct 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
One point here Paz, you appear to have by-passed a whole heap of comments pointing out your glaring inconsistencies!
Edit....and where did I say "all' and at least Corbyn's politics was grounded in sincerity but yes I am suspicious of all of them tbf.
Edit 2...all politicians, not all of the claims for clarity. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 9:04]
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That’s people’s views, I’m not going to change them.
Anything to say on the two points above? |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:00 - Oct 30 with 719 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 08:43 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
Oh dear.
Still spouting the same nonsense. Show me the account of where he accused “Jews” of not getting English irony rather than specific Zionist activists who tried to disrupt a meeting where he accused them of not getting the irony of the Palestinian speaker. Even one of the nutjobs, Richard Millett, confirmed that “Corbyn said I don’t get irony”.
You’re an utter disgrace on this subject.
Anyone who actually cares about it can read what was said and why here:
https://labourbriefing.org/blog/2018/8/29/full-texxt-of-that-speech-by-jeremy-on |
Which of the numerous incidents we've all debated on here over the last few years do you actually consider truly antisemitic? |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:02 - Oct 30 with 710 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 08:43 - Oct 30 by NewcyBlue |
I haven’t really followed this as intently as others.
I have questions.
The EHRC report is clearly a damning portrayal of a period of time of which the Labour Party has been accused of antisemitism.
The report states that unlawful acts have been committed. Is this report like a report from the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (or similarly Air Accident Investigation Branch) where you are legally required to comply with them, and as such the report cannot be used as evidence in a court of law?
Considering that they have concluded that such unlawful acts happened, what do you consider to be the main failings under Corbyn with regards to the handling of antisemitism?
It seems that the social media policy was all wrong, do you think that should have been addressed sooner?
I’ve only read parts of the report so far. I currently have a twin on my lap who cries when I put him down. |
The report is saying that more should have been done and the processes should have been better. Corbyn and others involved at the top of the party (including Jennie Formby, Tom Watson and Ian McNicol) bear overall responsibility of course.
And from a regulatory perspective why the procedures weren’t as good or effective or why the leadership was getting involved is irrelevant. The recommendations are there and I haven’t seen anyone disagree with them.
The key recommendation is an independent and transparent process and there’s the key. The factionalism involved in sabotaging the complaints process is quite ridiculous when you see the evidence in the Labour Leaks document. The EHRC do acknowledge that the complaints were handled better once a few of these Labour right actors were out of the way and when McNicol was replaced by Formby. Still not up to scratch but we’re also looking at a bombardment of complaints many of them frivolous from people who were looking to embarrass Labour and Corbyn.
Again from a regulatory perspective that’s not relevant if the procedures themselves still show shortcomings. So on this charge, Corbyn and others did work towards improving complaints procedures and processing cases but it wasn’t enough and even by getting involved to accelerate cases they were guilty of faulty procedures.
Overall, I think the EHRC report is both fair in its findings and recommendations but it certainly falls far short of the media narrative. And crucially we have to look elsewhere for the actual context (which again to reiterate isn’t a defence for faulty procedures).
I hoped the Forde Inquiry that is looking into what happened at Labour HQ actually brings that up. But having paid off some of those involved and using the EHRC regulatory view, I can see that being entirely swept under the rug.
That’s my biggest disappointment with Starmer. I don’t actually trust him and his “forensics” when it’s never going to applied to him and his allies. I presumed a human rights lawyer was actually better than this and above the game of politics. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:05 - Oct 30 with 699 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:00 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
That’s people’s views, I’m not going to change them.
Anything to say on the two points above? |
So you are sticking with your view that Corbyn is more of a racist than Trump? | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:08 - Oct 30 with 687 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:05 - Oct 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So you are sticking with your view that Corbyn is more of a racist than Trump? |
Not sure about Trump. He’s certainly more of a racist than Boris. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:11 - Oct 30 with 677 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:00 - Oct 30 by giant_stow |
Which of the numerous incidents we've all debated on here over the last few years do you actually consider truly antisemitic? |
Here’s a good example.
I would say anyone who thinks “the Jews” are in control or act as a single group is guilty of antisemitism. So when Naz Shah shares a meme from Jewish Norman Finkelstein where he’s making the not entirely facetious point that Israel should relocate to the MidWest of the US that’s a political statement however harsh it may seem.
When Naz Shah gets some pushback on her tweet and says “The Jews are out in force” then that’s antisemitic. As the antisemitism crisis should have shown the Jewish community isn’t some homogenous group nor are they to be linked implicitly with support for Israel. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:18 - Oct 30 with 646 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 08:25 - Oct 30 by lowhouseblue |
you've spent years down playing, dismissing, and attacking just about every single report of anti-semitism. time and again you've claimed its 'scummy smears'. you've done it for political convenience to defend people you otherwise support. and you call others slimy and immoral. nice. |
No, I’ve disagreed with your and others’ characterisation of racism where guilt is assumed. You’ve used this Trial by accusation throughout to score points and call people racists.
As I say, you’re slimy AF. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:21 - Oct 30 with 637 views | eireblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:00 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
That’s people’s views, I’m not going to change them.
Anything to say on the two points above? |
Why are you still here?
You have basically been banging on about context, in a number of your responses recently, but not describing the context.
It turns out the context is, it is okay to make racist and homophobic quips.
Accepting that it is okay to make racist quips, is racist.
You said you would leave, if someone could point out a racist comment by you.
And you have stated that Boris is not as racist as Trump
So you have been dismissing racist comments by “less of a racist Boris” as taken out of context or poor taste. He has been asked to apologies, and has never taken the opportunity when presented with it.
So your previous defence of a person that is and makes racist comments, is a racist comment.
Or are you going to stay and use the Corbyn gambit. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:24 - Oct 30 with 621 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:00 - Oct 30 by giant_stow |
Which of the numerous incidents we've all debated on here over the last few years do you actually consider truly antisemitic? |
And by the way, why didn’t you even attempt to address the post you replied to?
You can keep dodging this stuff as much as you want but don’t expect me to respect you for it or to believe you’re discussing this stuff in good faith. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:27 - Oct 30 with 609 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:18 - Oct 29 by BlueForYou |
At last..!! Hes taken Labour to the dogs. If people wanted a far left government then they would have voted for it. The fact it was rejected massively speaks volumes. Take Butler, Abbott, McDonnell, Lammy, & co with you. All of them unelectable. Bad day for the Far left brigade. |
It was a rejection, but not a massive one, I'm no big Corbyn fan but it was the FPTP system that massively skewed the results in terms of seats. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:35 - Oct 30 with 581 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:21 - Oct 30 by eireblue |
Why are you still here?
You have basically been banging on about context, in a number of your responses recently, but not describing the context.
It turns out the context is, it is okay to make racist and homophobic quips.
Accepting that it is okay to make racist quips, is racist.
You said you would leave, if someone could point out a racist comment by you.
And you have stated that Boris is not as racist as Trump
So you have been dismissing racist comments by “less of a racist Boris” as taken out of context or poor taste. He has been asked to apologies, and has never taken the opportunity when presented with it.
So your previous defence of a person that is and makes racist comments, is a racist comment.
Or are you going to stay and use the Corbyn gambit. |
Direct racist comment from me and I’ll go. There is no direct quote there. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:35 - Oct 30 with 582 views | BloomBlue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:05 - Oct 30 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So you are sticking with your view that Corbyn is more of a racist than Trump? |
Sorry and I know it's not your precise point but it's not about who's a bigger racist, a racist is a racist and Corbyn is one.
When Luciana Berger was asked yesterday if she believed that Corbyn was anti-Semitic she said yes and I trust her before anything that comes out of Corbyn's mouth
Even the simple point about that mural made it obvious about his thought on Jewish people. To hide behind freedom of speech and then condemn anyone who uses that excuse for other forms of racism was a classic example of a racist.
An excellent article here on the mural topic from the Jewish chronicle in 2018
https://www.thejc.com/comment/opinion/there-is-only-one-word-for-jeremy-corbyn-1 |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:42 - Oct 30 with 567 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:24 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
And by the way, why didn’t you even attempt to address the post you replied to?
You can keep dodging this stuff as much as you want but don’t expect me to respect you for it or to believe you’re discussing this stuff in good faith. |
Because we've talked about that before and there's no point going over it again, just to be abused by you once more.
I do reply in detail when its worth it, as above with your utterly manufactured point about "Barbarians".
I was trying to discuss in good faith, reasonably and calmly, but seeing as you went there, your respect stopped having any value a long time ago. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:44 - Oct 30 with 560 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:08 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
Not sure about Trump. He’s certainly more of a racist than Boris. |
But Boris is less so than Corbyn? | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:47 - Oct 30 with 544 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:35 - Oct 30 by BloomBlue |
Sorry and I know it's not your precise point but it's not about who's a bigger racist, a racist is a racist and Corbyn is one.
When Luciana Berger was asked yesterday if she believed that Corbyn was anti-Semitic she said yes and I trust her before anything that comes out of Corbyn's mouth
Even the simple point about that mural made it obvious about his thought on Jewish people. To hide behind freedom of speech and then condemn anyone who uses that excuse for other forms of racism was a classic example of a racist.
An excellent article here on the mural topic from the Jewish chronicle in 2018
https://www.thejc.com/comment/opinion/there-is-only-one-word-for-jeremy-corbyn-1 |
Agreed a racist is a racist but this is about Paz. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 9:48]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:52 - Oct 30 with 529 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:11 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
Here’s a good example.
I would say anyone who thinks “the Jews” are in control or act as a single group is guilty of antisemitism. So when Naz Shah shares a meme from Jewish Norman Finkelstein where he’s making the not entirely facetious point that Israel should relocate to the MidWest of the US that’s a political statement however harsh it may seem.
When Naz Shah gets some pushback on her tweet and says “The Jews are out in force” then that’s antisemitic. As the antisemitism crisis should have shown the Jewish community isn’t some homogenous group nor are they to be linked implicitly with support for Israel. |
Interesting. The exxample that springs to your mind is the one where the person involved apologised and served her pennace. No Murals, no Williamsons, or english irony, or not telling Hodge about the death threats, or people being hounded out of local parties, or no conlfatings of being jewish and being Isreali. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:52 - Oct 30 with 527 views | eireblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:35 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
Direct racist comment from me and I’ll go. There is no direct quote there. |
Yep, Corbyn. | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:53 - Oct 30 with 525 views | Seablu |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:35 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
Direct racist comment from me and I’ll go. There is no direct quote there. |
I’d much rather you hang around and keep digging that nasty big hole in full view.
Better to have you in a controlled environment rather than padding around whining at strangers. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:55 - Oct 30 with 515 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:53 - Oct 30 by Seablu |
I’d much rather you hang around and keep digging that nasty big hole in full view.
Better to have you in a controlled environment rather than padding around whining at strangers. |
There are posters on this thread defending the indefensible.
It’s not me diffing a hole ... | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:04 - Oct 30 with 503 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:42 - Oct 30 by giant_stow |
Because we've talked about that before and there's no point going over it again, just to be abused by you once more.
I do reply in detail when its worth it, as above with your utterly manufactured point about "Barbarians".
I was trying to discuss in good faith, reasonably and calmly, but seeing as you went there, your respect stopped having any value a long time ago. |
Yeah, you talk but you never address things.
Rather than the constant deflection and whataboutery, what is your actual point about what I posted? You don’t think that shows a completely different context and target than GB’s accusation re: “Jews”?
Here’s your chance to show you’re capable of good faith. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:09 - Oct 30 with 490 views | Seablu |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:55 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
There are posters on this thread defending the indefensible.
It’s not me diffing a hole ... |
When it comes to defending the indefensible, you are light years ahead of anyone on this thread. | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:10 - Oct 30 with 491 views | footers |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:55 - Oct 30 by 26_Paz |
There are posters on this thread defending the indefensible.
It’s not me diffing a hole ... |
Nice one, bumboy.
And please don't complain about my post, you just don't get the context. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:13 - Oct 30 with 482 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 09:52 - Oct 30 by giant_stow |
Interesting. The exxample that springs to your mind is the one where the person involved apologised and served her pennace. No Murals, no Williamsons, or english irony, or not telling Hodge about the death threats, or people being hounded out of local parties, or no conlfatings of being jewish and being Isreali. |
No I don’t think the English irony comment was antisemitic. As I’ve shown.
You just ignoring stuff and repeating accusations that don’t stand up to any real scrutiny is getting boring. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:18 - Oct 30 with 459 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:10 - Oct 30 by footers |
Nice one, bumboy.
And please don't complain about my post, you just don't get the context. |
That’s twice you’ve called me that ... it doesn’t bother me but may offend some users of this forum. | |
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