| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) 13:07 - Oct 29 with 25507 views | Ewan_Oozami |
According to my highly dodgy Twitter feed... [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 13:10]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:20 - Oct 29 with 2085 views | vindicatedblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:15 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Well you made the assumption first my man.
I see you ignored my post asking for evidence of how the left has a massive anti semitism problem earlier though.
Boris Johnson has continually used racist slurs and proposed we blow up families of refugees. But all cool. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:16]
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Left wing antisemitism (it's one word. Not two) didn't start with Corbyn and it won't end with him.
This is a very good read from Hope Not Hate on left wing antisemitism.
https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/10/27/left-wing-antisemitism-an-explainer/ [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:22]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:23 - Oct 29 with 2081 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 16:07 - Oct 29 by vindicatedblue |
"We have concluded that there were unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination for which the Labour Party is responsible."
What a hill to die on old friend. |
Well if your interpretation of institutional racism is that if any individual within an organisation acts inappropriately then the entire institution is racist then I hope Paz doesn't have a season ticket. All institutions basically then? |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:25 - Oct 29 with 2076 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:11 - Oct 29 by BloomBlue |
What the hell difference does that make? I know plenty of coloured people who voted for Boris because they know he's not racist, but you'll say he is.
Just because a few people voted for someone doesn't mean they aren't a racist
Talk about left winger sticking their head in the sand |
"coloured people"?
Was that deliberate, to get a reaction? Because it really doesn't strengthen your case in a thread about racial discrimination to use a label for people of another race which is, at best, unreconstructed, old-fashioned and ignorant, and, at worst, was used by actual racist supremacists in the Deep South of the USA and in Apartheid era South Africa to denote people for segregation. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:25 - Oct 29 with 2072 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 16:10 - Oct 29 by 26_Paz |
You’ve torn him a new one on this thread. |
Are we supposed to pretend you care about discrimination now? Bit hard to believe since you've been role playing Tommy Robinson's dimmer brother on here for the last year. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 with 2057 views | BlueBadger |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:19 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Again, I ask, how is someone who has protested racism for decades somehow a closet anti-semite? That’s the dot I simply can’t connect. Third time asking on that front. |
By inaction, rather than action. When the issue was first raised, he dithered and pondered, when prominent figures(such as persistent offender Ken Livingstone) kept doing it he allowed them to quietly slither out the door rather than actively take measures because they were his mates and supporters, the grudging 'but can we say THIS' acceptance though' of the IHRA guidelines.
By continuing to associate with high dubious organisations and individuals - the regular appearances on Iranian state TV springs to mind.
I don't think it was a wide-spread as some media hype suggested but the failure to act on it and a willingness to keep associating with these people is a massive, massive failing.
Frankly, I expect this sort of sh*t from the Tories. NOT a Labour party and it's leader. ANY Labour leader and party. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 with 2043 views | vindicatedblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:23 - Oct 29 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Well if your interpretation of institutional racism is that if any individual within an organisation acts inappropriately then the entire institution is racist then I hope Paz doesn't have a season ticket. All institutions basically then? |
It's not my definition. It's the accepted definition post McPherson. | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 with 2051 views | SpruceMoose |
Those middle class white boys strike again! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:28 - Oct 29 with 2032 views | vindicatedblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
Those middle class white boys strike again! |
Oi! | | | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:30 - Oct 29 with 2031 views | pointofblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:19 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Again, I ask, how is someone who has protested racism for decades somehow a closet anti-semite? That’s the dot I simply can’t connect. Third time asking on that front. |
I don’t think Jeremy Corbyn is an antisemite himself but he was far too fluid with the situation when it came to those who were as they otherwise shared a political platform with him. Darth_Koont made reference to the numbers game earlier and I think it was this which tempered his approach - he knew the vultures were circling and needed as many supporters on side as possible for the fight.
In truth Corbyn’s biggest issue was he had the vision but could not sell it to the majority. Until the left finds a person who can those who want power will forever court the centre and possibly the right. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:30]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:31 - Oct 29 with 2029 views | BlueBadger |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 15:04 - Oct 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
We'll have to take your word for that. Beside the point though, you're clearly a Tory desperately trying to tar all of Labour with the antisemitism brush. The Labour Party is actually full of very decent, non-racist, people. |
The trouble is, those Very Decent People spent the thick end of five years doing f*ck all about a minority that ultimately led to this report. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:37 - Oct 29 with 2001 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 by BlueBadger |
By inaction, rather than action. When the issue was first raised, he dithered and pondered, when prominent figures(such as persistent offender Ken Livingstone) kept doing it he allowed them to quietly slither out the door rather than actively take measures because they were his mates and supporters, the grudging 'but can we say THIS' acceptance though' of the IHRA guidelines.
By continuing to associate with high dubious organisations and individuals - the regular appearances on Iranian state TV springs to mind.
I don't think it was a wide-spread as some media hype suggested but the failure to act on it and a willingness to keep associating with these people is a massive, massive failing.
Frankly, I expect this sort of sh*t from the Tories. NOT a Labour party and it's leader. ANY Labour leader and party. |
I’m keen to see this investigated internally by the party, I want to know more about the complaints.
I agree he should have done something and sooner, but at the same time I voted Labour twice for the first time ever for Corbyn’s policies. He was hella popular with the young people (miles more than the Tories). The Corbyn “experiment failed yes, but it’s not an era to sweep entirely under the carpet, Starmer needs those same Corbyn voters on board, many of which are fed up of the market dictating society.
It does get tiresome watching Bloom and others try and say the Left has some kind of racism problem as most my social circle are quite radical and I don’t know a single anti-semite. I know plenty of my new neighbours can’t hold a 2 minute conversation without moaning about foreigners within minutes of meeting me the first time though. I’ve seen our local MP spout Nazi conspiracy theories last week. All evidence suggests the Tories have bigger problems with all forms of racism. A local councillor was suspended then quit this year with zero apology when caught being racist multiple times on Facebook.
We see the same people in all racism related threads but some only show up when it’s a stick to bash Labour with as they ignore everything else going on around them.
As I said earlier, I’d be keen to hear from those who voted for Tom Hunt how they feel about him banging on about Cultural Marxism.
Thanks for replying BTW, you are the first. And PoB too. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:39]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:37 - Oct 29 with 1997 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:31 - Oct 29 by BlueBadger |
The trouble is, those Very Decent People spent the thick end of five years doing f*ck all about a minority that ultimately led to this report. |
You’re wrong about them doing f*ck all. Even the EHRC recognizes that.
But wait until you hear about the people who actively worked to obstruct antisemitism complaints. What sort of low-lives do that? |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:40 - Oct 29 with 1986 views | BlueBadger |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 16:44 - Oct 29 by Meadowlark |
Decent opposition is not permitted, or have you not noticed?
As soon as we start to get close, the establishment orchestrates the situation to prevent it.
This time around they are also starting to dismantle the system so that there is no chance of any future change that might be beneficial to us all.
It's difficult to see a way back from this situation without a revolution. |
Corbyn's Labour failed to provide decent opposition for nearly all of his tenure. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:40 - Oct 29 with 1979 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:37 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
You’re wrong about them doing f*ck all. Even the EHRC recognizes that.
But wait until you hear about the people who actively worked to obstruct antisemitism complaints. What sort of low-lives do that? |
Hopefully deeper investigation into the cases weeds out all the sh1t on all sides. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:41 - Oct 29 with 1968 views | vindicatedblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:40 - Oct 29 by BlueBadger |
Corbyn's Labour failed to provide decent opposition for nearly all of his tenure. |
But they sang his name at Glastonbury. | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:41 - Oct 29 with 1973 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
Those middle class white boys strike again! |
I think that’s now worked its way into TWTD folklore with cheese debates, SUQ, Burnley and Hob Nobs. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:43 - Oct 29 with 1961 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:41 - Oct 29 by vindicatedblue |
But they sang his name at Glastonbury. |
Look at the voting chart of the 18-24 bracket after the last election. These people are the future as the older generations, mostly Tory, die off.
As I said, you can’t just right off the fact a growing chunk of people are fed up of the status quo. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:44 - Oct 29 with 1962 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:30 - Oct 29 by pointofblue |
I don’t think Jeremy Corbyn is an antisemite himself but he was far too fluid with the situation when it came to those who were as they otherwise shared a political platform with him. Darth_Koont made reference to the numbers game earlier and I think it was this which tempered his approach - he knew the vultures were circling and needed as many supporters on side as possible for the fight.
In truth Corbyn’s biggest issue was he had the vision but could not sell it to the majority. Until the left finds a person who can those who want power will forever court the centre and possibly the right. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:30]
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there is a big element on the hard left which is anti the us, anti the west, and anti israel; it has a simplistic world view about finance and an establishment; it has a strong leaning towards various global elite conspiracy theories; and it therefore has a strong tendency towards anti-semitism. that bit of the left has always been about in various guises - for example, the stop the war coalition. corbyn has spent his whole career wallowing in that cess pit, he has always been closely associated with people from that sect. anyone who had heard of corbyn before 2015 knew that. he brought lots of them into the party when he became leader. he was utterly incapable of challenging them or calling out their anti-semitism. they were some of the people closest to him so, at the very best, he turned a blind eye. a failure of leadership and a failure to challenge harassment and discrimination. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:45]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:45 - Oct 29 with 1956 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 by BlueBadger |
By inaction, rather than action. When the issue was first raised, he dithered and pondered, when prominent figures(such as persistent offender Ken Livingstone) kept doing it he allowed them to quietly slither out the door rather than actively take measures because they were his mates and supporters, the grudging 'but can we say THIS' acceptance though' of the IHRA guidelines.
By continuing to associate with high dubious organisations and individuals - the regular appearances on Iranian state TV springs to mind.
I don't think it was a wide-spread as some media hype suggested but the failure to act on it and a willingness to keep associating with these people is a massive, massive failing.
Frankly, I expect this sort of sh*t from the Tories. NOT a Labour party and it's leader. ANY Labour leader and party. |
Can you point me to where you’re getting this stuff about how the Livingstone case was handled by Corbyn?
It seems the usual lazy and superficial reading of the situation without addressing any details. Like Livingstone himself contesting his suspension through the legal system. It also doesn’t tally with the primary evidence of the Leader’s office having to push the GLU to process the case. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:48 - Oct 29 with 1954 views | eireblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:19 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
Again, I ask, how is someone who has protested racism for decades somehow a closet anti-semite? That’s the dot I simply can’t connect. Third time asking on that front. |
I am going to take a stab at this.
The event to look at, was JC comment about British sense of irony.
I will contend that is a racist statement, not because it puts down Jewish people, it asserts a level of superiority. That is also a form of racism.
And that is the character flaw, it is a form of arrogance and a deep belief that one is correct.
It is a flaw, that both sides of polarised left/right wing political discussion display.
Right wing types, in my experience, default to “common sense” and talk nonsense whilst ignoring reality.
Left wing types, default to a position of intellectual superiority, and are equally capable of talking nonsense whilst ignoring reality.
Corbyn, was and is arrogant, and was working in the belief that his worldview was correct, and things that got in the way of that, were easily dismissed.
E.g. The Labour Party had a huge surge in numbers, that feed into the arrogance, and reinforced the view that what he was doing was important, the fact that a lot of unsavoury types also managed to get in, were an annoyance, that needed to be managed away. Rather than, showing empathy to people, and stamping out forms of abuse.
He prioritised his mission, above the abuse people were suffering.
As an aside, I did say I was entirely comfortable with people making racist and antisemitic comments on places like Twitter, to be investigated by police. if we had enough.
I think I also once said, people in political parties, should be held to higher standards, since they represent other people. And so, having an external body look into if political types are being homophobic, racist, and even, ageist, is very good thing.
Of course this is why it is important that people from minorities or from groups that have been disadvantaged, are the best people to decide what is abusive, including context, and make helpful definitions. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:48 - Oct 29 with 1947 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:44 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
there is a big element on the hard left which is anti the us, anti the west, and anti israel; it has a simplistic world view about finance and an establishment; it has a strong leaning towards various global elite conspiracy theories; and it therefore has a strong tendency towards anti-semitism. that bit of the left has always been about in various guises - for example, the stop the war coalition. corbyn has spent his whole career wallowing in that cess pit, he has always been closely associated with people from that sect. anyone who had heard of corbyn before 2015 knew that. he brought lots of them into the party when he became leader. he was utterly incapable of challenging them or calling out their anti-semitism. they were some of the people closest to him so, at the very best, he turned a blind eye. a failure of leadership and a failure to challenge harassment and discrimination. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:45]
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I don’t think it’s a conspiracy the world is dominated by financial global elites, it’s done in broad daylight with a poorly hidden paper trail of lobbying and donations in the political and legal system.
That’s not a simplistic view, it’s fact.
The part the conspiracy theorists always get wrong is following old theories that look to pin the blame on a section of society and not just “the super rich”.
Tories keep banging on about Cultural Marxism and *tumbleweeds* though.
Also, please don’t confuse anti-Capitalism for being anti-Western and anti-human rights violations by the Israeli government as anti-Israel. It’s a very lazy understanding of the issues and shows you probably aren’t listening. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:50]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:56 - Oct 29 with 1933 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:48 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy the world is dominated by financial global elites, it’s done in broad daylight with a poorly hidden paper trail of lobbying and donations in the political and legal system.
That’s not a simplistic view, it’s fact.
The part the conspiracy theorists always get wrong is following old theories that look to pin the blame on a section of society and not just “the super rich”.
Tories keep banging on about Cultural Marxism and *tumbleweeds* though.
Also, please don’t confuse anti-Capitalism for being anti-Western and anti-human rights violations by the Israeli government as anti-Israel. It’s a very lazy understanding of the issues and shows you probably aren’t listening. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:50]
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i'm certainly not confusing those things.
my point is that there is a long running strand on the hard left whose world view mixes them together and which has a strong affinity for anti-semitism. they're the people who corbyn has been close to for the past 40 years. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:59 - Oct 29 with 1925 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:44 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
there is a big element on the hard left which is anti the us, anti the west, and anti israel; it has a simplistic world view about finance and an establishment; it has a strong leaning towards various global elite conspiracy theories; and it therefore has a strong tendency towards anti-semitism. that bit of the left has always been about in various guises - for example, the stop the war coalition. corbyn has spent his whole career wallowing in that cess pit, he has always been closely associated with people from that sect. anyone who had heard of corbyn before 2015 knew that. he brought lots of them into the party when he became leader. he was utterly incapable of challenging them or calling out their anti-semitism. they were some of the people closest to him so, at the very best, he turned a blind eye. a failure of leadership and a failure to challenge harassment and discrimination. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:45]
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There are cranks on the left undoubtedly, antisemites and conspiracy theorists too.
But the problem with being on the left is that you do tend to see Western imperialism as more of the disease than the cure. For many decades, Israel has been the self-styled “outpost of Western democracy defending it from the barbarians” or some such racist twaddle. And it unfortunately intersects more than any other country with the worst excesses and foreign policy blind spots of the US and the UK.
This isn’t a conspiracy theory. This is history and also a critique of our politics, without even mentioning us turning a blind eye to the apartheid-like situation for Arabs and Palestinians within the borders Israel controls.
And it’s not antiSemitic to be harshly critical of that and the increasing encroachments of an Israeli government that’s getting far too much backup from our own politicians.
I also know that all of these opinions are regularly dismissed as conspiracy theories and motivated by antisemitism. So by all means, let’s look at left wing antisemitism and root it out, but let’s never take religious extremists, supremacists, nationalists, hard-core neoliberals and foreign policy hawks’ word for it. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:02 - Oct 29 with 1920 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:31 - Oct 29 by BlueBadger |
The trouble is, those Very Decent People spent the thick end of five years doing f*ck all about a minority that ultimately led to this report. |
So what do you expect me, as a Labour voter, to do about it? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:03 - Oct 29 with 1919 views | RegencyBlue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 15:19 - Oct 29 by 26_Paz |
Fair play to Starmer. Strong response. Good leadership. Chalk and cheese to the cowardly, racist, weasel he’s replaced. |
Don’t think he had any choice once Corbyn didn’t accept the outcome of the enquiry. |  | | |
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