| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy 16:41 - Jan 27 with 11689 views | ElderGrizzly |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:23 - Jan 27 with 1956 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 21:31 - Jan 27 by Lord_Lucan |
Hey Vapes.
Is this definite info? Sounds a bit friend of a friend stuff?? |
They have. Along with Gibraltar, The Falkland Islands, Bermuda and Anguilla.
The Foreign Office have pledged to provide vaccinations free to all British overseas territories.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9021/ |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:30 - Jan 27 with 1930 views | Lord_Lucan |
Well I suppose they are BOTs so as they say in Hong Kong - Fair Dinkum. |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:30 - Jan 27 with 1933 views | J2BLUE |
The EU "reject the logic of first come, first served".
They literally wasted three months after several countries had agreed a deal. They were apparently trying to drive down the price of a vaccine that wasn't for profit. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 22:52]
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:32 - Jan 27 with 1925 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 20:34 - Jan 27 by bluelagos |
Wales seems to be messing up too? Wonder if the answer in both Scotland and Wales is a function of size / fewer people.
That said, my limited knowledge of Scotland is that the vast majority of people live in the central belt which should make it easier to start with? |
We’ve had problems with handling the Pfizer vaccine because of a lack of suitable facilities in all but a very few places and issues them getting that out into the remoter areas. So that got things off to a bad start. We’re many times smaller, relatively badly resourced and poor too which doesn’t help. So I’m not surprised.
Bizarrely we’ve also been sitting on vaccine stockpiles so as to not use them up too quickly, according to a car crash interview by the First Minister last week. An utterly bizarre explanation that’s frankly unbelievable. |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:49 - Jan 27 with 1891 views | vapour_trail |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 21:31 - Jan 27 by Lord_Lucan |
Hey Vapes.
Is this definite info? Sounds a bit friend of a friend stuff?? |
More uncle of a wife than friend of a friend.
They don’t appear to be taking the same approach to prioritisation over there. It’s more about accumulated wealth than likelihood of severe illness. |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:54 - Jan 27 with 1875 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:49 - Jan 27 by vapour_trail |
More uncle of a wife than friend of a friend.
They don’t appear to be taking the same approach to prioritisation over there. It’s more about accumulated wealth than likelihood of severe illness. |
Here is their vaccination schedule
https://hsacdn.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/COVID-vaccination-schedule-J
Page 2 explains who is in each category.
https://hsacdn.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/COVID-19-Vaccine-Brochure.pd
Stage 1
Group A
Residents and staff of institutional facilities
Individuals aged 70+
Healthcare workers and first responders
All frontline staff dealing with incoming travellers
Adults 60+ or with a relevant health status
Workers essential to Government continuity
Stage 2
Anyone aged 16-60 with relevant medical status
Those living at home with persons from stage one of the programme
Essential workers, teachers, school staff
Stage 3
Everyone 16+ who has not already received the vaccination
This will begin with persons aged 50+ [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 23:02]
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 23:07 - Jan 27 with 1848 views | vapour_trail |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:54 - Jan 27 by GlasgowBlue |
Here is their vaccination schedule
https://hsacdn.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/COVID-vaccination-schedule-J
Page 2 explains who is in each category.
https://hsacdn.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/COVID-19-Vaccine-Brochure.pd
Stage 1
Group A
Residents and staff of institutional facilities
Individuals aged 70+
Healthcare workers and first responders
All frontline staff dealing with incoming travellers
Adults 60+ or with a relevant health status
Workers essential to Government continuity
Stage 2
Anyone aged 16-60 with relevant medical status
Those living at home with persons from stage one of the programme
Essential workers, teachers, school staff
Stage 3
Everyone 16+ who has not already received the vaccination
This will begin with persons aged 50+ [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 23:02]
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Hmmm. | |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 23:24 - Jan 27 with 1823 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 23:07 - Jan 27 by vapour_trail |
Hmmm. |
Oh Gawd
Don't you two start arguing.
Let's change the subject in a way. I'm currently in an hotel in Poole listening to Neil Young.
Not that it's a great deal of interest to most, I have had one of the greatest things tonight that has ever happened in my life. I spent three hours on an excel sheet and then saved it but inexplicably lost it.
After what seems an age (two bloody hours) I decided to take my head out of my apron and do it again but before I did - guess what, I found it in a download folder as an CSV thing.
I know that is completely uninteresting but I've written it now.
Anyway, hope you are ok. | |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 01:09 - Jan 28 with 1784 views | Ryorry |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 20:11 - Jan 27 by bluelagos |
"As a country"
I have no doubt our scientists have done amazing things for the world good. Not sure why that would extricate our politicians from their moral duty to consider more than just putting British interests first.
We could make a decision to save 000s of foreign lives. Or we can ignore the impending issues overseas by "putting Britain first". I know it's uncomfortable (ethical dilemmas usually are) but hiding behind the great work of our scientists is a bit of copout imho. |
I think the point is also being lost that it's in *every human being on the planet's interests* that vaccines are intelligently and co-operatively produced & rolled out, since while international travel is permitted in any way and mutations of the Covid_19 virus are very likely, no-one on the planet's really safe till everybody's vaccinated (or 85% or whatever the exact threshold is, I've forgotten).
Re the point you made later in the thread about borders - the comment made by astronaut Alexander Gerst is never far from my mind - ""We do not see any borders from space," Gerst said. "We just see a unique planet with a thin, fragile atmosphere, suspended in a vast and hostile darkness. From up here it is crystal clear that on Earth we are one humanity, we eventually all share the same fate." |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 06:59 - Jan 28 with 1707 views | ElderGrizzly |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 21:31 - Jan 27 by Lord_Lucan |
Hey Vapes.
Is this definite info? Sounds a bit friend of a friend stuff?? |
Sounds like they have jumped the queue
https://www.exploregov.ky/faqs/covid19-vaccine#who-can-get
Stage One
Group A
Individuals aged 70+
Residents and staff of institutional facilities
Healthcare workers and first responders
All frontline staff dealing with incoming travellers
Current evidence shows the biggest risk of death from COVID-19 is age, so those aged 70+ are a top priority followed by those who are on the frontlines.
Stage One, Group A began on Friday, 8 January. Stage Two, Group A began on Wednesday, 27 January. Individuals who are within these groups are invited to the 'flu clinic and Owen Roberts International Airport in Grand Cayman and other district clinics on certain days to receive their vaccinations.
The schedule, locations and roll out for the vaccine are available here.
Group B
Adults 60+ or with a relevant health status
Group C
Workers essential to Government continuity
Stage Two
Group A
Anyone aged 16-60 with relevant medical status
Group B
Those living at home with persons from stage one of the programme
Essential workers
Teachers
School staff
Stage Three
Everyone 16+ who has not already received the vaccination. This will begin with persons aged 50+ | | | |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:44 - Jan 28 with 1679 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 06:59 - Jan 28 by ElderGrizzly |
Sounds like they have jumped the queue
https://www.exploregov.ky/faqs/covid19-vaccine#who-can-get
Stage One
Group A
Individuals aged 70+
Residents and staff of institutional facilities
Healthcare workers and first responders
All frontline staff dealing with incoming travellers
Current evidence shows the biggest risk of death from COVID-19 is age, so those aged 70+ are a top priority followed by those who are on the frontlines.
Stage One, Group A began on Friday, 8 January. Stage Two, Group A began on Wednesday, 27 January. Individuals who are within these groups are invited to the 'flu clinic and Owen Roberts International Airport in Grand Cayman and other district clinics on certain days to receive their vaccinations.
The schedule, locations and roll out for the vaccine are available here.
Group B
Adults 60+ or with a relevant health status
Group C
Workers essential to Government continuity
Stage Two
Group A
Anyone aged 16-60 with relevant medical status
Group B
Those living at home with persons from stage one of the programme
Essential workers
Teachers
School staff
Stage Three
Everyone 16+ who has not already received the vaccination. This will begin with persons aged 50+ |
If you don't mind Grizzly I'll wait for Vapes to respond.
No offence and I will of course look at your link but you have a habit of posting stuff that is soon debunked and then hiding for a while. I can only presume that you are in training for the minister of disinformation. | |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:46 - Jan 28 with 1683 views | Churchman |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 22:30 - Jan 27 by J2BLUE |
The EU "reject the logic of first come, first served".
They literally wasted three months after several countries had agreed a deal. They were apparently trying to drive down the price of a vaccine that wasn't for profit. [Post edited 27 Jan 2021 22:52]
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The EU is thrashing around throwing its weight around to cover its failures in this instance. It got it badly wrong, but that won’t matter if it can divert U.K. production to the EU at the expense of U.K. people. The political capital they would be able to make from that would be enormous.
That the EU tried to drive down the price of something being produced at cost and is already a fraction of the cost of other vaccines seems astonishing to me. Imagine the headlines had the U.K. done that? They’d have had a field day.
On a wider note, I hope that once the U.K. population is vaccinated and if the vaccine is successful I hope a plan is put in place to sell at cost or donate vaccine across the world to where it’s needed most. If that’s to the EU, I would double the price to them and with the ‘profit’ purchase more vaccine for poorer countries in need and provide it to them for free. Just an idea. |  | | |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:50 - Jan 28 with 1677 views | ChiefXL |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 21:26 - Jan 27 by Lord_Lucan |
That may be true however I am fairy certain that our reduced budget is still twice the amount than Canada, USA, Spain, France, Italy, Japan etc etc.
The Elephant in the room however is how much of this money actually gets through to the people and why we should give so much aid to some countries.
Having worked for a great amount of time in Africa you will be aware of how little gets through to the people ----- and when it comes to India it is argued that we shouldn't give money to a country that has a perfectly serviceable Space and Nuclear programme - and do you know what? What is to disagree with.
Of course there is an argument that although the Indian government could afford to feed people but decide they would rather go to space then we should feed them but hang on a minute. Let's think about doing things another way?
Basically - foreign aid has never been aid to people, it is simply a bargaining exercise in trade negotiations. |
Just my tuppence worth on foreign aid being used as a benefit to trade negotiations part, even if that were true we've just left one of the world's largest trade blocs weakening our global bargaining power.
Weakening it further by reducing our foreign aid would be a very silly move indeed. |  | | |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:56 - Jan 28 with 1667 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:50 - Jan 28 by ChiefXL |
Just my tuppence worth on foreign aid being used as a benefit to trade negotiations part, even if that were true we've just left one of the world's largest trade blocs weakening our global bargaining power.
Weakening it further by reducing our foreign aid would be a very silly move indeed. |
It's all smoke and mirrors Chiefy. You are an intelligent man, I am sure you get the griff. | |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 08:28 - Jan 28 with 1637 views | Churchman |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:50 - Jan 28 by ChiefXL |
Just my tuppence worth on foreign aid being used as a benefit to trade negotiations part, even if that were true we've just left one of the world's largest trade blocs weakening our global bargaining power.
Weakening it further by reducing our foreign aid would be a very silly move indeed. |
I have met a few people that have worked in that world and from what they’ve said I believe its true. It’s a murky old world out there. I always have a vision of foreign aid as being digging wells, big packets of grain, infrastructure projects, funding and sending supplies to flooded areas, all that stuff. I either need to read more about it or how it’s used needs to be more transparent | | | |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:20 - Jan 28 with 1599 views | GlasgowBlue |
More good vaccine news.
Let’s hope this one is approved.
According to the Times the UK has secured 380 million doses from a variety of global manufacturers, equating to 5.7 shots per person. [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 9:28]
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:26 - Jan 28 with 1588 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:50 - Jan 28 by ChiefXL |
Just my tuppence worth on foreign aid being used as a benefit to trade negotiations part, even if that were true we've just left one of the world's largest trade blocs weakening our global bargaining power.
Weakening it further by reducing our foreign aid would be a very silly move indeed. |
It's largely true, and you're right as well of course. Foreign aid, trading blocs, embassies.... All about jockeying for position and influence. We're weakening ours in so many ways. Unless people genuinely think on our own (and it my be England and Wales on its own by then) we can become a world superpower where we can afford to not give a damn about any other country??? | |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:31 - Jan 28 with 1583 views | itfcjoe |
Interesting bits in today Politico newsletter about this: Links won't work but you get the gist:
JAB GRAB: The EU last night tried to force AstraZeneca to divert vaccines being produced in the U.K. and earmarked for Britons to Europe, accusing the drugs firm of breaching its contract with Brussels. The demand came after another day of, let’s say … interesting … communications from the European Commission, attacking AZ over its failure to deliver on its promised supply to the EU. Boris Johnson rejected the suggestion that Britons could lose out last night, insisting he was “very confident” the U.K.’s deal with AZ would be fulfilled.
STELLA PERFORMANCE: EU Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides insisted AZ was acting against the “letter and the spirit of our agreement” by giving vaccines to the U.K. before the EU, saying she rejected the “logic of first come, first served. That may work at the neighborhood butchers but not in contracts and not in our advance purchase agreements.”
PETER, YOU’VE LOST THE NEWS: German MEP Peter Liese went one further and threatened a “trade war” with Britain over the AZ vaccine. With the EU now preparing export controls, Liese suggested the Pfizer jabs due to arrive in the U.K. in the coming weeks should be held at the border, and warned Britain “better think twice.” Playbook is old enough to remember when German officials were falsely briefing that the AZ vaccine doesn’t work. Now they seem awfully keen to get their hands on it.
REMINDER: AZ CEO Pascal Soriot said on Tuesday that the delays were because the EU only signed a deal with the drugs firm three months after Britain, so issues with its supply chain were taking longer to resolve. It’s also worth remembering the European Medicines Agency hasn’t even approved the AZ vaccine yet – that’s due on Friday.
Now read this: My POLITICO colleagues David M. Herszenhorn and Jillian Deutsch report in a really excellent tick tock of the day’s events that despite Soriot’s criticism that the EU had been late to commit to purchasing his company’s vaccine, in fact, four EU countries had reached a deal with AstraZeneca last June, shortly after the U.K. signed its initial contract in May. Still, David and Jillian write that the European Commission’s claims to be solving its vaccine issues seemed “rather hollow” after Brussels left another meeting with AZ last night “empty handed.” They say that yesterday “it became clear the EU had little leverage over the company,” and “there seemed to be little Brussels could do to immediately secure more doses.”
This line is a particular zinger: “Commission officials also acknowledged they had developed their contract with AstraZeneca for vaccine production in Europe specifically to avoid the risk of export restrictions being imposed by former U.S. President Donald Trump. Only now, the Commission is moving forward with its own export restrictions.” Ouch.
DON’T MENTION THE B-WORD: The Mail’s John Stevens has had a trawl through Europe’s newspapers – and much of their anger seems aimed at the European Commission rather than AZ. German broadsheet Die Zeit condemned the Commission for “acting slowly, bureaucratically and in a protectionist way. And if something goes wrong, it’s everyone else’s fault. This is how many Britons see the EU and their prejudices have been confirmed this week. The European Commission is currently providing the best advertisement for Brexit.” Tabloid Bild mocked Kyriakides’ claim that the EU rollout was going well: “Are you kidding? Are you serious when you say that? The opposite is true.”
BEST BEHAVIOR: Downing Street yesterday told U.K. government officials not to get involved in the war of words between the EU and AZ, and for the most part they behaved. Playbook had a bit more luck canvassing the opinions of ministers on the row. One said they were viewing the threats from Brussels “more in sorrow than in anger” and argued: “It is in Britain’s interests as well that our EU friends can solve their issues and vaccinate their populations as soon as possible.”
SAD: There is however some alarm at the threats to prevent the Pfizer vaccine from reaching the U.K. Another minister told Playbook the Commission’s threats of export controls “would make Trump blush” and noted: “The international community would judge the EU harshly if it seriously threatens to deny elderly and vulnerable people in this country their second dose within the 12 week period.” An industry source makes a similar point in the Times, warning: “They cannot stop vaccines that are contracted for delivery. Some of these vaccines have already been given to people who are due to receive their second dose. It would be a human rights issue for millions of people if that process was stopped.”
BUT BEFORE YOU GET TOO RILED UP: The U.K. placed a series of its own export restrictions last year on around 100 medicines that could be used to treat COVID-19 patients – making its criticisms of the EU’s moves ring somewhat hollow, my colleagues Anna Isaac and Ashleigh Furlong report in this scoop. “The British government itself has a list of 174 medicines that are currently banned from export from the U.K., because they ‘are needed for UK patients,’” write Anna and Ashleigh. “Additions to the list in 2020 included around 100 medicines that have been suggested as possible treatments for COVID-19 patients or are being used to alleviate symptoms of COVID-19 patients in intensive care units.”
NOW FOR SOME GOOD NEWS … on the Times‘ front page, where Sean O’Neill, Chris Smyth and Bruno Waterfield report that the U.K. has secured enough doses for this year and could eventually end up donating spare jabs to countries in need. “There is plenty of vaccine. It exceeds what the government wants to do,” a source tells the paper, which reports that Britain’s vaccine task force wants to eventually give the excess vaccines to less-developed nations. While the EU-AZ row blazes on, Sam Freedman offers this sobering statistic: “In the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa there have been 55 vaccinations.” |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:34 - Jan 28 with 1569 views | bluelagos |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 08:28 - Jan 28 by Churchman |
I have met a few people that have worked in that world and from what they’ve said I believe its true. It’s a murky old world out there. I always have a vision of foreign aid as being digging wells, big packets of grain, infrastructure projects, funding and sending supplies to flooded areas, all that stuff. I either need to read more about it or how it’s used needs to be more transparent |
So a few points on foreign aid, from someone who has worked on programmes (As the accountant) funded by USAID, ECHO (EU), IrishAid, DFID, GIZ and numerous much smaller funders...
So the donors (Some listed above) don't really spend money as such, they typically fund programmes that deliver xyz. So an INGO or local NIGO would seek funding for programmes by applying for funding.
The INGO would then spend the money in accordance with the donor rules (E.G. Procurement rules) and deliver the programme. They would then account to the donor for the work delivered and the money spent.
Last stage is the donor may choose to use an auditor to audit the work delivered / money spent. So I had to provide reports on the financial delivery and to then assist an auditor who would check receipts/paperwork etc. E.G. For a DFID funded programme in Malawi they were audited by PWC.
So the idea that anyone is spending money unaccounted for is utter bollx and not based on reality. The idea that money is being wasted, well that comes down to the types of programmes that the Aid agencies choose to fund. I only ever worked for agencies that did things I thought useful, such as water & sanitation, livelihoods, education programmes etc. All the stuff that you'd expect.
Now the government will impact on aid, as a donor, because they can choose where to spend their money. They do this in a number of ways, such as maybe avoiding places where human rights abuses occur, or where they feel there is too high a risk of fraud. So Nigeria receives less than it might otherwise get as donors are reluctant to spend in areas where they feel fraud is most likely.
Another way the donors impact things is targeting things in their own interests. So the argument that a country can provide future markets may well focus the minds of some. (This isn't something I support, I think aid should always go to where it is most needed)
Donors also can dictate how money is spent. So procurement can be more than following rules such as quotes / tenders. It can be, if you are buying a car, it should be sourced from their own areas. USAID and EU did this on vehicles, though it meant little in practice as Toyotas really were the only things that could get you around offroad and had a reliable servicing network. There is a reason why 90% of NGO cars are Toyotas and not Jeeps or Landrovers.
Another trend in development is the desire to build governance infrastructure in the developing world. So I have seen (not worked on) programmes funding/training the Police in Liberia. There is more focus on this than 20 years ago.
As for fraud, yeah it goes on. But not to the extent some would have you believe. And what really grates is that those who are quick to highlight it seem reluctant to recognise corruption in their own country. But hey, give a contract to your mates in a pandemic and yeah, we can justify that as we didn't have time to ensure the money was spent correctly.
And if anyone is any doubt that aid is desperately needed, then that is only because you choose not to look / consider what is happening. That position is one of ignorance, no more. If you choose to hide behind "But it is misspent" then again, that is a position of ignorance as that is a misrepresentation of how money is spent, how it is accounted for and what is actually delivers, irrespective of the frauds that happen.
And if you argue it could be spent better, then I actually agree with you. But cutting aid is not the answer to spending money better. It is the act of people who either don't understand how aid is spent or don't believe helping the most needy is what we should be doing.
Out for walk now but happy to answer any specific questions later on how it works in practice anyone might have, here on via pm. |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:44 - Jan 28 with 1558 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:34 - Jan 28 by bluelagos |
So a few points on foreign aid, from someone who has worked on programmes (As the accountant) funded by USAID, ECHO (EU), IrishAid, DFID, GIZ and numerous much smaller funders...
So the donors (Some listed above) don't really spend money as such, they typically fund programmes that deliver xyz. So an INGO or local NIGO would seek funding for programmes by applying for funding.
The INGO would then spend the money in accordance with the donor rules (E.G. Procurement rules) and deliver the programme. They would then account to the donor for the work delivered and the money spent.
Last stage is the donor may choose to use an auditor to audit the work delivered / money spent. So I had to provide reports on the financial delivery and to then assist an auditor who would check receipts/paperwork etc. E.G. For a DFID funded programme in Malawi they were audited by PWC.
So the idea that anyone is spending money unaccounted for is utter bollx and not based on reality. The idea that money is being wasted, well that comes down to the types of programmes that the Aid agencies choose to fund. I only ever worked for agencies that did things I thought useful, such as water & sanitation, livelihoods, education programmes etc. All the stuff that you'd expect.
Now the government will impact on aid, as a donor, because they can choose where to spend their money. They do this in a number of ways, such as maybe avoiding places where human rights abuses occur, or where they feel there is too high a risk of fraud. So Nigeria receives less than it might otherwise get as donors are reluctant to spend in areas where they feel fraud is most likely.
Another way the donors impact things is targeting things in their own interests. So the argument that a country can provide future markets may well focus the minds of some. (This isn't something I support, I think aid should always go to where it is most needed)
Donors also can dictate how money is spent. So procurement can be more than following rules such as quotes / tenders. It can be, if you are buying a car, it should be sourced from their own areas. USAID and EU did this on vehicles, though it meant little in practice as Toyotas really were the only things that could get you around offroad and had a reliable servicing network. There is a reason why 90% of NGO cars are Toyotas and not Jeeps or Landrovers.
Another trend in development is the desire to build governance infrastructure in the developing world. So I have seen (not worked on) programmes funding/training the Police in Liberia. There is more focus on this than 20 years ago.
As for fraud, yeah it goes on. But not to the extent some would have you believe. And what really grates is that those who are quick to highlight it seem reluctant to recognise corruption in their own country. But hey, give a contract to your mates in a pandemic and yeah, we can justify that as we didn't have time to ensure the money was spent correctly.
And if anyone is any doubt that aid is desperately needed, then that is only because you choose not to look / consider what is happening. That position is one of ignorance, no more. If you choose to hide behind "But it is misspent" then again, that is a position of ignorance as that is a misrepresentation of how money is spent, how it is accounted for and what is actually delivers, irrespective of the frauds that happen.
And if you argue it could be spent better, then I actually agree with you. But cutting aid is not the answer to spending money better. It is the act of people who either don't understand how aid is spent or don't believe helping the most needy is what we should be doing.
Out for walk now but happy to answer any specific questions later on how it works in practice anyone might have, here on via pm. |
Land rovers really are sh1t aren't they! |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:52 - Jan 28 with 1538 views | ChiefXL |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:56 - Jan 28 by Lord_Lucan |
It's all smoke and mirrors Chiefy. You are an intelligent man, I am sure you get the griff. |
I'm really not old boy, it's all smoke and mirrors... | | | |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:53 - Jan 28 with 1532 views | ElderGrizzly |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:44 - Jan 28 by Lord_Lucan |
If you don't mind Grizzly I'll wait for Vapes to respond.
No offence and I will of course look at your link but you have a habit of posting stuff that is soon debunked and then hiding for a while. I can only presume that you are in training for the minister of disinformation. |
Of course. I have no interest in anyone listening to stuff they don't want to.
This is the vaccine link from their Govt, so debunk away.
I never hide btw. Like you, i'm sure we all have difficult busy jobs. Pressing buttons to help people back from foreign lands is tiring :) [Post edited 28 Jan 2021 9:55]
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:57 - Jan 28 with 1515 views | ElderGrizzly |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 09:31 - Jan 28 by itfcjoe |
Interesting bits in today Politico newsletter about this: Links won't work but you get the gist:
JAB GRAB: The EU last night tried to force AstraZeneca to divert vaccines being produced in the U.K. and earmarked for Britons to Europe, accusing the drugs firm of breaching its contract with Brussels. The demand came after another day of, let’s say … interesting … communications from the European Commission, attacking AZ over its failure to deliver on its promised supply to the EU. Boris Johnson rejected the suggestion that Britons could lose out last night, insisting he was “very confident” the U.K.’s deal with AZ would be fulfilled.
STELLA PERFORMANCE: EU Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides insisted AZ was acting against the “letter and the spirit of our agreement” by giving vaccines to the U.K. before the EU, saying she rejected the “logic of first come, first served. That may work at the neighborhood butchers but not in contracts and not in our advance purchase agreements.”
PETER, YOU’VE LOST THE NEWS: German MEP Peter Liese went one further and threatened a “trade war” with Britain over the AZ vaccine. With the EU now preparing export controls, Liese suggested the Pfizer jabs due to arrive in the U.K. in the coming weeks should be held at the border, and warned Britain “better think twice.” Playbook is old enough to remember when German officials were falsely briefing that the AZ vaccine doesn’t work. Now they seem awfully keen to get their hands on it.
REMINDER: AZ CEO Pascal Soriot said on Tuesday that the delays were because the EU only signed a deal with the drugs firm three months after Britain, so issues with its supply chain were taking longer to resolve. It’s also worth remembering the European Medicines Agency hasn’t even approved the AZ vaccine yet – that’s due on Friday.
Now read this: My POLITICO colleagues David M. Herszenhorn and Jillian Deutsch report in a really excellent tick tock of the day’s events that despite Soriot’s criticism that the EU had been late to commit to purchasing his company’s vaccine, in fact, four EU countries had reached a deal with AstraZeneca last June, shortly after the U.K. signed its initial contract in May. Still, David and Jillian write that the European Commission’s claims to be solving its vaccine issues seemed “rather hollow” after Brussels left another meeting with AZ last night “empty handed.” They say that yesterday “it became clear the EU had little leverage over the company,” and “there seemed to be little Brussels could do to immediately secure more doses.”
This line is a particular zinger: “Commission officials also acknowledged they had developed their contract with AstraZeneca for vaccine production in Europe specifically to avoid the risk of export restrictions being imposed by former U.S. President Donald Trump. Only now, the Commission is moving forward with its own export restrictions.” Ouch.
DON’T MENTION THE B-WORD: The Mail’s John Stevens has had a trawl through Europe’s newspapers – and much of their anger seems aimed at the European Commission rather than AZ. German broadsheet Die Zeit condemned the Commission for “acting slowly, bureaucratically and in a protectionist way. And if something goes wrong, it’s everyone else’s fault. This is how many Britons see the EU and their prejudices have been confirmed this week. The European Commission is currently providing the best advertisement for Brexit.” Tabloid Bild mocked Kyriakides’ claim that the EU rollout was going well: “Are you kidding? Are you serious when you say that? The opposite is true.”
BEST BEHAVIOR: Downing Street yesterday told U.K. government officials not to get involved in the war of words between the EU and AZ, and for the most part they behaved. Playbook had a bit more luck canvassing the opinions of ministers on the row. One said they were viewing the threats from Brussels “more in sorrow than in anger” and argued: “It is in Britain’s interests as well that our EU friends can solve their issues and vaccinate their populations as soon as possible.”
SAD: There is however some alarm at the threats to prevent the Pfizer vaccine from reaching the U.K. Another minister told Playbook the Commission’s threats of export controls “would make Trump blush” and noted: “The international community would judge the EU harshly if it seriously threatens to deny elderly and vulnerable people in this country their second dose within the 12 week period.” An industry source makes a similar point in the Times, warning: “They cannot stop vaccines that are contracted for delivery. Some of these vaccines have already been given to people who are due to receive their second dose. It would be a human rights issue for millions of people if that process was stopped.”
BUT BEFORE YOU GET TOO RILED UP: The U.K. placed a series of its own export restrictions last year on around 100 medicines that could be used to treat COVID-19 patients – making its criticisms of the EU’s moves ring somewhat hollow, my colleagues Anna Isaac and Ashleigh Furlong report in this scoop. “The British government itself has a list of 174 medicines that are currently banned from export from the U.K., because they ‘are needed for UK patients,’” write Anna and Ashleigh. “Additions to the list in 2020 included around 100 medicines that have been suggested as possible treatments for COVID-19 patients or are being used to alleviate symptoms of COVID-19 patients in intensive care units.”
NOW FOR SOME GOOD NEWS … on the Times‘ front page, where Sean O’Neill, Chris Smyth and Bruno Waterfield report that the U.K. has secured enough doses for this year and could eventually end up donating spare jabs to countries in need. “There is plenty of vaccine. It exceeds what the government wants to do,” a source tells the paper, which reports that Britain’s vaccine task force wants to eventually give the excess vaccines to less-developed nations. While the EU-AZ row blazes on, Sam Freedman offers this sobering statistic: “In the whole of Sub-Saharan Africa there have been 55 vaccinations.” |
Your good news point is true. We have pre-ordered something like 300m+ doses.
Some of those are from yet to be approved vaccines of course, but the reason we have so many is the unknown factor of how long the vaccines last.
We've effectively ordered 4 doses for every person to allow for a 2 doses booster later in the year. | | | |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 10:15 - Jan 28 with 1490 views | BlueRaider |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 17:06 - Jan 27 by giant_stow |
Personally, I think they're acting out of desperation. They've realised how bad they fcked it and given that their joint procurement programme was meant to be a symbol of EU strength in cooperation, are now worried on a wider level.
Thet also haven't had to deal with the english variant on any scale yet, so the 3 month delay could cost many thousands of lives - potentially a major wound to the EU project. |
Especially as the Germans, Dutch and some others were ready to sign a deal with AZ, and the EU then stopped it and dithered for 2 months before signing the same deal. Robert Peston did an excellent series of tweets on this |  |
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| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 10:23 - Jan 28 with 1472 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| This EU demand for AZ vaccines is going to get very messy on 07:46 - Jan 28 by Churchman |
The EU is thrashing around throwing its weight around to cover its failures in this instance. It got it badly wrong, but that won’t matter if it can divert U.K. production to the EU at the expense of U.K. people. The political capital they would be able to make from that would be enormous.
That the EU tried to drive down the price of something being produced at cost and is already a fraction of the cost of other vaccines seems astonishing to me. Imagine the headlines had the U.K. done that? They’d have had a field day.
On a wider note, I hope that once the U.K. population is vaccinated and if the vaccine is successful I hope a plan is put in place to sell at cost or donate vaccine across the world to where it’s needed most. If that’s to the EU, I would double the price to them and with the ‘profit’ purchase more vaccine for poorer countries in need and provide it to them for free. Just an idea. |
This whole episode has certainly sunk the inevitable (UK) 'Re-join' campaign for a good many years.
It's given so much ammunition to the Brexiteers, hamstrung by bureaucracy, disagreements amongst the EU states, and incendiary comments from some MEP's. | | | |
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