| Do we actually have any..... on 15:45 - Nov 22 with 1174 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Do we actually have any..... on 15:29 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
....anti-vaxxers on here?
Or just a few turds that don't like wearing a mask? |
I hate wearing a mask. But it was noticeable at half time on Saturday that there was only me and some woman who was actually wearing one in a packed concourse. |  |
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| I wore mine on the way up..... on 16:04 - Nov 22 with 1125 views | Bloots |
| Do we actually have any..... on 15:45 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I hate wearing a mask. But it was noticeable at half time on Saturday that there was only me and some woman who was actually wearing one in a packed concourse. |
....and on the way down.
But I didn't wear it at half time went I went for a wazz, probably out of forgetfulness rather than any protest.
I wear mine on the train going into the city, and even on a busy commuter train it's at less than about 20%
I still put one on getting into the lift at work.
I hate wearing one, I'm a four eyed git so it's a real pain.
I just don't get why people wouldn't wear one. |  |
| Elite Level Poster: Elite Level Supporter: Elite Level Human |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:10 - Nov 22 with 1104 views | itfcjoe |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 12:45 - Nov 22 by textbackup |
mate of mine
"i was walking my dog down ellenbrook catting to a bloke who lives next door to a dr, and he said him and all his team arent getting jab as not tested correctly...."
riiiiiight |
I'm surprised Ipswich Hospital has any nurses left with the amount of people who claim their daughter/friend/sister is a nurse at the hospital and says the jab is more dangerous than covid.
My wife has had it recently and is still struggling trying to exercise and with tiredness - me and my eldest didn't get it which is handy |  |
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| Do we actually have any..... on 16:14 - Nov 22 with 1095 views | factual_blue |
| Do we actually have any..... on 15:39 - Nov 22 by WD19 |
I think we have a special category of scum who are personally vaccinated but quite enjoy trying to encourage others to put their lives at risk. |
It's all about their liberty.
Never mind anybody else's. |  |
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| Do we actually have any..... on 16:38 - Nov 22 with 1047 views | factual_blue |
| Do we actually have any..... on 15:29 - Nov 22 by Bloots |
....anti-vaxxers on here?
Or just a few turds that don't like wearing a mask? |
I'm not certain anybody likes wearing a mask, but I'd like to think most of us have a sufficiently developed sense of responsibility to wear one anyway. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:39 - Nov 22 with 1043 views | Lightworker |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 13:35 - Nov 22 by itfc_bucks |
I have a family member and their partner, neither of whom have had a jab yet. All they've said is that for their own reasons, they're not having it.
We've said that that's their view, but ours is that, because they represent an unacceptable risk, we wont be seeing them and they won't be anywhere near our kids.
They're just too much of a risk. |
They don't represent an unacceptable risk though. You and I are just as likely to catch and transmit Covid as they are. I have posted this before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in with people, the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30. It would actually be more logical for them to say they don't want to risk seeing you!
You can of course choose to see or not see whomever you want but what you are describing here is based on fear and emotion not on logic or facts. |  | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:42 - Nov 22 with 1027 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:39 - Nov 22 by Lightworker |
They don't represent an unacceptable risk though. You and I are just as likely to catch and transmit Covid as they are. I have posted this before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in with people, the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30. It would actually be more logical for them to say they don't want to risk seeing you!
You can of course choose to see or not see whomever you want but what you are describing here is based on fear and emotion not on logic or facts. |
Do you understand Bayes Theorem at all? |  |
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| Do we actually have any..... on 16:42 - Nov 22 with 1024 views | BlueBadger |
| Do we actually have any..... on 15:39 - Nov 22 by WD19 |
I think we have a special category of scum who are personally vaccinated but quite enjoy trying to encourage others to put their lives at risk. |
Or the lives of their own kids. |  |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:48 - Nov 22 with 1007 views | BlueBadger |
The sickest though, are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated. And these are the people who are getting into ITU.
These are health people, aged generally 40-60 who are getting admitted to ITU and more often than not, dying. That said, in the last few weeks I've taken people as young as 20 to ITU.
The hospitalised and vaccinated are largely the older and vulnerable population who, whilst needing hospitalisation are largely surviving.
This time last year the latter group were dying in huge numbers. Now, they're mostly not.
Have your jabs, wear your mask, keep on distancing. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:50 - Nov 22 with 992 views | Lightworker |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:39 - Nov 22 by Lightworker |
They don't represent an unacceptable risk though. You and I are just as likely to catch and transmit Covid as they are. I have posted this before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in with people, the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30. It would actually be more logical for them to say they don't want to risk seeing you!
You can of course choose to see or not see whomever you want but what you are describing here is based on fear and emotion not on logic or facts. |
Downvote all you like folks but I bet you can't construct a logical counter argument. The Governments own official data backs up what I have said, your own confirmation bias is the only thing preventing you from acknowledging it. | | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:51 - Nov 22 with 995 views | BlueBadger |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 13:18 - Nov 22 by Pinewoodblue |
It is worth pointing out that less than 1,000 people in UK are currently in ICU.
Also while the number being admitted to hospital with Covid in last 7 days is less than 7,000 there are less than 9,000 currently in hospital with Covid. This suggests to me that those currently being admitted into hospital are, on average, spending less time in hospital than a year ago. |
And that, is largely vaccine effect.
The sickest population by far in terms of representation in ITU are the unvaccinated. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:56 - Nov 22 with 968 views | BlueBadger |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 07:34 - Nov 22 by galacticoblue |
I don’t know anyone who is against the vaccine. |
I've met loads, mostly professionally, but one or two 'pub experts' as well.
A significant proportion of the the former group are now dead. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:58 - Nov 22 with 957 views | WD19 |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:39 - Nov 22 by Lightworker |
They don't represent an unacceptable risk though. You and I are just as likely to catch and transmit Covid as they are. I have posted this before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in with people, the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30. It would actually be more logical for them to say they don't want to risk seeing you!
You can of course choose to see or not see whomever you want but what you are describing here is based on fear and emotion not on logic or facts. |
Its not sinking in because it is not true. Your are either incredibly disingenuous or just spectacularly bad at maths. Which is it? |  | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:01 - Nov 22 with 937 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:50 - Nov 22 by Lightworker |
Downvote all you like folks but I bet you can't construct a logical counter argument. The Governments own official data backs up what I have said, your own confirmation bias is the only thing preventing you from acknowledging it. |
You have not yet provided a logical argument yourself, your own confirmation bias is the thing the prevents you looking deeper into the statistics and working out what they really mean because the headline ones confirm your beliefs... | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:03 - Nov 22 with 936 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:58 - Nov 22 by WD19 |
Its not sinking in because it is not true. Your are either incredibly disingenuous or just spectacularly bad at maths. Which is it? |
I don't agree with all of the poster's positions but the government's own data released this week showed that the rate of cases is significantly higher per 100'000 in the vaccinated than unvaccinated, ages 30 and above.
Of course the most important aspect is patient outcome. You are 32 times less likely to die if you are vaccinated than not. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:03 - Nov 22 with 937 views | factual_blue |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:50 - Nov 22 by Lightworker |
Downvote all you like folks but I bet you can't construct a logical counter argument. The Governments own official data backs up what I have said, your own confirmation bias is the only thing preventing you from acknowledging it. |
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditio
To quote
'The data presented in Figure 5 for England suggests the percentage testing positive for COVID-19 in England has decreased in children and younger adults, and remained level among older ages. Uncertainty is high for all ages in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland in comparison with England because of comparatively smaller sample sizes, as indicated by wider confidence intervals. In Wales, there were signs of a decrease for those of secondary school age and those aged around 40 years, but the trend was uncertain for all other ages. In Scotland, there were signs of a decrease for those of secondary school age and young adults, but the trend was uncertain for all other ages. In Northern Ireland, the percentage testing positive in secondary school ages appeared to increase, but the trend was uncertain for all other age groups.' | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:12 - Nov 22 with 913 views | Lightworker |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:58 - Nov 22 by WD19 |
Its not sinking in because it is not true. Your are either incredibly disingenuous or just spectacularly bad at maths. Which is it? |
Sigh....
Government vaccine surveillance report Week 46, page 23.
Cases per 100'00 of population
Age 30-39
Vaxxed - 1314.9
Unvaxxed - 948.7
Age 40-49
Vaxxed - 2043.5
Unvaxxed - 929.5
And so on...
Believe me I would rather it not be true but that is the reality, like it or not.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac | | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:16 - Nov 22 with 898 views | Lightworker |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:03 - Nov 22 by factual_blue |
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditio
To quote
'The data presented in Figure 5 for England suggests the percentage testing positive for COVID-19 in England has decreased in children and younger adults, and remained level among older ages. Uncertainty is high for all ages in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland in comparison with England because of comparatively smaller sample sizes, as indicated by wider confidence intervals. In Wales, there were signs of a decrease for those of secondary school age and those aged around 40 years, but the trend was uncertain for all other ages. In Scotland, there were signs of a decrease for those of secondary school age and young adults, but the trend was uncertain for all other ages. In Northern Ireland, the percentage testing positive in secondary school ages appeared to increase, but the trend was uncertain for all other age groups.' |
All of which has precisely nothing to do with what I posted. | | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:23 - Nov 22 with 862 views | Lightworker |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:01 - Nov 22 by Ewan_Oozami |
You have not yet provided a logical argument yourself, your own confirmation bias is the thing the prevents you looking deeper into the statistics and working out what they really mean because the headline ones confirm your beliefs... |
The stats clearly show that the posters theory of not wanting to spend time with an unvaxxed family member because of the 'risk' is not logical.
This type of belief is being pushed by the media and is divisive and unhelpful. I am vaccinated and want them to work so I don't have any bias in the opposite direction, I'm not going to ignore the facts though because the media tells me something different.
Perhaps you can tell me what the stats really mean then if you feel I have it all wrong? | | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:32 - Nov 22 with 853 views | bluelagos |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 16:39 - Nov 22 by Lightworker |
They don't represent an unacceptable risk though. You and I are just as likely to catch and transmit Covid as they are. I have posted this before but it doesn't seem to be sinking in with people, the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30. It would actually be more logical for them to say they don't want to risk seeing you!
You can of course choose to see or not see whomever you want but what you are describing here is based on fear and emotion not on logic or facts. |
"the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30"
From that statement you seem to infer that the vaccine isn't effective in preventing people from contracting Covid.
Let me try and show why that inference isn't a fair one.
Say there were 1000 people in a village. 80% were vaccinated, 20% unvaccinated.
Say the likelihood of catching the virus were 1 in 50 overall.
So you would have 800 vaccinated people and 200 unvacinated. And if both got the vaccine at 1 in 50 that would give:
16 vaccinated people with Covid, 4 unvaccinated with Covid.
Now supposed the vaccine was helpful in reducing transmission, by a half. Everything else stayed the same. So now you would expect
8 vaccinated and 4 unvaccinated people with Covid.
Your opening position of "the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30" would be true in this village of 1000 - yet the vaccine would have worked in limiting transmission.
Hope that helps in showing why just because there are more vaccinated people ill, it doesn't therefore follow that the vaccine is ineffective. |  |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:37 - Nov 22 with 838 views | GlasgowBlue |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:32 - Nov 22 by bluelagos |
"the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30"
From that statement you seem to infer that the vaccine isn't effective in preventing people from contracting Covid.
Let me try and show why that inference isn't a fair one.
Say there were 1000 people in a village. 80% were vaccinated, 20% unvaccinated.
Say the likelihood of catching the virus were 1 in 50 overall.
So you would have 800 vaccinated people and 200 unvacinated. And if both got the vaccine at 1 in 50 that would give:
16 vaccinated people with Covid, 4 unvaccinated with Covid.
Now supposed the vaccine was helpful in reducing transmission, by a half. Everything else stayed the same. So now you would expect
8 vaccinated and 4 unvaccinated people with Covid.
Your opening position of "the majority of cases are currently in the vaccinated in all adult age groups above 30" would be true in this village of 1000 - yet the vaccine would have worked in limiting transmission.
Hope that helps in showing why just because there are more vaccinated people ill, it doesn't therefore follow that the vaccine is ineffective. |
The newly released data he is talking about is per 100,000 of the vaxxed Vs per 100,000 of the unvaxxed. So your analogy doesn't work.
I'm, one of the most pro vaccine people you'll meet but there is not point just dismissing data that we find uncomfortable.
As I've said already on this thread, vaccines save lives. You are 32 times more likely to die after catching covid if you are unvaccinated. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:39 - Nov 22 with 824 views | bluelagos |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:37 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
The newly released data he is talking about is per 100,000 of the vaxxed Vs per 100,000 of the unvaxxed. So your analogy doesn't work.
I'm, one of the most pro vaccine people you'll meet but there is not point just dismissing data that we find uncomfortable.
As I've said already on this thread, vaccines save lives. You are 32 times more likely to die after catching covid if you are unvaccinated. |
I haven't challenged his data. I have challenged his inference, which is patently false. | |
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:41 - Nov 22 with 821 views | happybeingblue |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 07:34 - Nov 22 by galacticoblue |
I don’t know anyone who is against the vaccine. |
I know quite a few sadly who constantly voice their opinion on facebook ,it is very worrying as many vulnerable folk do seem to suck it up..i get they feel powerless and need to believe in some evil master plan to make it all make sense, i also think the internet facebook etc consumes them and brings all that negative energy to the surface, the same folk who were paranoid about cctv bluetooth etc all very odd, think their is a pattern of behaviour with the anti vax brigade,crazy times. |  | | |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:43 - Nov 22 with 800 views | Pinewoodblue |
Did you read the notes related to the figures you have quoted. If you did you presumably didn't understand them.
Here they are
1
Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness
against COVID-19 infection. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is
summarised on pages 5 to 8 in this report.
The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying
statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. For example:
- people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so
more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
- many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age,
their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
- people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social
interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
- people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period
of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus for a few months which may have
contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks
2 Case rates are calculated using NIMS - a database of named individuals from which the numerator and the denominator come
from the same source and there is a record of each individuals vaccination status. Further information on the use of NIMS as the
source of denominator data is presented on page 15 of this report and in the further resources below.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2021 17:44]
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| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:53 - Nov 22 with 748 views | Lightworker |
| “ICU is full of the unvaccinated” on 17:43 - Nov 22 by Pinewoodblue |
Did you read the notes related to the figures you have quoted. If you did you presumably didn't understand them.
Here they are
1
Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness
against COVID-19 infection. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is
summarised on pages 5 to 8 in this report.
The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying
statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. For example:
- people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so
more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
- many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age,
their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
- people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social
interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
- people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period
of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus for a few months which may have
contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks
2 Case rates are calculated using NIMS - a database of named individuals from which the numerator and the denominator come
from the same source and there is a record of each individuals vaccination status. Further information on the use of NIMS as the
source of denominator data is presented on page 15 of this report and in the further resources below.
[Post edited 22 Nov 2021 17:44]
|
Yes I did, none of those factors are likely to make anything other than a minor difference to the raw data which still suggests vaccinated people are as likely to catch and transmit covid as unvaccinated at the present time.
The fact that so many people are jumping on me and trying to discredit my position rather than the poster who wishes to treat his own family like they are sub-human for choosing not to take a vaccine says much about where society is at currently. The Government and media have done a great job at dividing people yet again. Sad times.
I'll leave you all to it. | | | |
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