| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers 20:07 - Nov 24 with 5868 views | noggin |
then they have to give safe passage for those wishing to enter the UK. They won't of course and the mud slinging will continue. RIP those poor souls. |  |
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| Yeah, let's have some respect.... on 11:43 - Nov 25 with 982 views | Bloots |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 09:13 - Nov 25 by Radlett_blue |
Please stop trying to blame this bad situation on the people smugglers. Yes, I'm sure some of them are unpleasant criminal, but they are fulfilling a demand - plenty of people want to cross the Channel to enter Britain illegally. If they didn't arrange this, others would or the migrants would steal or pay for boats themselves. |
....for the people smugglers!
They don't deserve a bad rep, just a job innit.
....good lord. |  |
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| The classic downvote.... on 11:44 - Nov 25 with 978 views | Bloots |
| Word of warning..... on 11:41 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....if you try and look at both sides of the argument on here, all that happens is that you get both cohorts having a pop at you.
It's a funny old game. |
....entirely proving my point. | |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:08 - Nov 25 with 927 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 11:41 - Nov 25 by nodge_blue |
Sometimes now the issues we see just seem overwhelming. Whether it's climate change, wars, rogue nations, trump, soil failure, plastics.
And on top of that mass migration. I feel what we are seeing is the tip of the iceberg as climate change will only add to it. Plus most liberal people don't want to live in Afghanistan or Syria etc now.
I don't know what the answer is. It makes me really down at times.
I can't see that just an open door is ok though. Everyone that comes needs housing for a start. I've no idea how you process tens of thousands of people and house then all at the same time. |
A lot of that is all interconnected. Wars, rogue nations, climate change impacts all leading to the displacement. Trumesque disdain for foreigners contributing to the smuggling trade.
Sure, integration is bound to create challenges - there's an interesting little piece here highlighting some of the issues around the mass immigration of migrants and refugees to Germany in 2015/16. https://www.cgdev.org/blog/five-years-later-one-million-refugees-are-thriving-ge We don't have anywhere near that level of a challenge. Our asylum claimant numbers are half of what they were 20 years ago, somewhere around 30-35k per year. A lot will end up in jobs even if it takes a little while, and so will contribute to public services (and may well end up helping to deliver them). Housing's a challenge for everyone, yet we've anywhere up to about half a million empty homes in the UK. You'd like to think some government some day will be able to look sensibly at housing issues. |  |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:10 - Nov 25 with 924 views | Clapham_Junction |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 11:20 - Nov 25 by Ely_Blue |
Still waiting for your answer on that given that it isn’t for £30 a week |
We had a thread the other day where someone asked this question. A response was given, but the poster who asked the question responded to the post with the explanation, ignoring what had been written and asked the same question again.
The selective blindness is bizarre.
From https://fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk
Social and economic factors are relevant, less so the availability of benefits
Researchers say that, where people can choose, factors such as colonial and historical links, the presence of family members, general reputation as a safe country and language are relevant factors.
There’s mixed evidence on whether people choose between countries based on their knowledge of its asylum system, according to Professor Heaven Crawley, a former head of Home Office asylum research. Some studies suggest that asylum seekers are drawn to countries with a more generous asylum regime, whereas others point to little or no knowledge about how the system works.
But economic opportunities, particularly being able to get a job, do play a role. As this suggests, there’s not necessarily an easy dividing line between ‘genuine refugees’ fleeing conflict on the one hand, and ‘economic migrants’ seeking new opportunities on the other. A person can easily be both.
It seems unlikely that the benefits system is relevant. Professor Crawley writes that “there is no statistically significant relationship between the level of social and welfare benefits and asylum applications”.
We’ve previously discussed why the UK’s welfare system is an unlikely pull factor for asylum seekers, and compared the cash support available to asylum seekers in different European countries. |  | | |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:27 - Nov 25 with 893 views | nodge_blue |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:08 - Nov 25 by Swansea_Blue |
A lot of that is all interconnected. Wars, rogue nations, climate change impacts all leading to the displacement. Trumesque disdain for foreigners contributing to the smuggling trade.
Sure, integration is bound to create challenges - there's an interesting little piece here highlighting some of the issues around the mass immigration of migrants and refugees to Germany in 2015/16. https://www.cgdev.org/blog/five-years-later-one-million-refugees-are-thriving-ge We don't have anywhere near that level of a challenge. Our asylum claimant numbers are half of what they were 20 years ago, somewhere around 30-35k per year. A lot will end up in jobs even if it takes a little while, and so will contribute to public services (and may well end up helping to deliver them). Housing's a challenge for everyone, yet we've anywhere up to about half a million empty homes in the UK. You'd like to think some government some day will be able to look sensibly at housing issues. |
Everything is interconnected.
Belarus backed by Russia using immigration as a way to destabilise Europe. It's sickening. All because they want to probably land grab chunks of former eastern block countries.
I can't help feel that we have gone past some sort of tipping point on many of these big issues. Even the soil won't support food production in 70 years time.
But on immigration whilst we may be able to find creative ways to support this wave of immigration, if this is the tip of the iceberg, how do we sustain that? Empty homes doesn't equate to government owned homes that are available for government funded accommodation? |  |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:27 - Nov 25 with 892 views | Ely_Blue |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:10 - Nov 25 by Clapham_Junction |
We had a thread the other day where someone asked this question. A response was given, but the poster who asked the question responded to the post with the explanation, ignoring what had been written and asked the same question again.
The selective blindness is bizarre.
From https://fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk
Social and economic factors are relevant, less so the availability of benefits
Researchers say that, where people can choose, factors such as colonial and historical links, the presence of family members, general reputation as a safe country and language are relevant factors.
There’s mixed evidence on whether people choose between countries based on their knowledge of its asylum system, according to Professor Heaven Crawley, a former head of Home Office asylum research. Some studies suggest that asylum seekers are drawn to countries with a more generous asylum regime, whereas others point to little or no knowledge about how the system works.
But economic opportunities, particularly being able to get a job, do play a role. As this suggests, there’s not necessarily an easy dividing line between ‘genuine refugees’ fleeing conflict on the one hand, and ‘economic migrants’ seeking new opportunities on the other. A person can easily be both.
It seems unlikely that the benefits system is relevant. Professor Crawley writes that “there is no statistically significant relationship between the level of social and welfare benefits and asylum applications”.
We’ve previously discussed why the UK’s welfare system is an unlikely pull factor for asylum seekers, and compared the cash support available to asylum seekers in different European countries. |
Thank you |  |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:38 - Nov 25 with 874 views | Pinewoodblue |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:10 - Nov 25 by Clapham_Junction |
We had a thread the other day where someone asked this question. A response was given, but the poster who asked the question responded to the post with the explanation, ignoring what had been written and asked the same question again.
The selective blindness is bizarre.
From https://fullfact.org/immigration/why-do-migrants-and-asylum-seekers-want-come-uk
Social and economic factors are relevant, less so the availability of benefits
Researchers say that, where people can choose, factors such as colonial and historical links, the presence of family members, general reputation as a safe country and language are relevant factors.
There’s mixed evidence on whether people choose between countries based on their knowledge of its asylum system, according to Professor Heaven Crawley, a former head of Home Office asylum research. Some studies suggest that asylum seekers are drawn to countries with a more generous asylum regime, whereas others point to little or no knowledge about how the system works.
But economic opportunities, particularly being able to get a job, do play a role. As this suggests, there’s not necessarily an easy dividing line between ‘genuine refugees’ fleeing conflict on the one hand, and ‘economic migrants’ seeking new opportunities on the other. A person can easily be both.
It seems unlikely that the benefits system is relevant. Professor Crawley writes that “there is no statistically significant relationship between the level of social and welfare benefits and asylum applications”.
We’ve previously discussed why the UK’s welfare system is an unlikely pull factor for asylum seekers, and compared the cash support available to asylum seekers in different European countries. |
For the people smugglers to maintain their business they need to encourage demand.
There is a complete network reaching back to the Countries from which people are migrating from.
You can charge a lot more to offer to get people to the UK than you can for just getting them into Europe.
Watching a news item on Sky; family paid smugglers to get int EU. Picked up by authorities just days after getting to Poland, sent straight back by plane to country of origin. |  |
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| Word of warning..... on 13:08 - Nov 25 with 846 views | eireblue |
| Word of warning..... on 11:41 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....if you try and look at both sides of the argument on here, all that happens is that you get both cohorts having a pop at you.
It's a funny old game. |
So are you saying this is a valid argument to make.
“ Every new person is an extray strain on the NHS and all public services” |  | | |
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| I'm saying..... on 13:18 - Nov 25 with 811 views | Bloots |
| Word of warning..... on 13:08 - Nov 25 by eireblue |
So are you saying this is a valid argument to make.
“ Every new person is an extray strain on the NHS and all public services” |
...."The system for asylum could and should be better here and across Europe"
(if you're just picking random lines from a post I didn't write, nice try though) | |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:18 - Nov 25 with 810 views | noggin |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 11:20 - Nov 25 by Ely_Blue |
Still waiting for your answer on that given that it isn’t for £30 a week |
Of course it's not for the benefits. Their applications can take years to process and that's what they get to live on. As has been explained to you on numerous occasions, there are many reasons why migrants might want to settle in Britain. Language is one reason. It's much easier to find work and integrate if one can speak the language.
You sound like a selfish and nasty individual. Hopefully you don't experience extreme hardships any time but it might change your outlook. | |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:21 - Nov 25 with 798 views | Tractor_Buck |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 08:13 - Nov 25 by BlueBlueBluex2 |
Women and dependant children under 18, no problem.
Fit and healthy men in their 20's with mobiles and football shirts, no thanks. |
Eat a few pies, change your top and put your phone in your sock lads. BlueBlueBlue has solved the issue for you.  |  | | |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:23 - Nov 25 with 794 views | noggin |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:38 - Nov 25 by Pinewoodblue |
For the people smugglers to maintain their business they need to encourage demand.
There is a complete network reaching back to the Countries from which people are migrating from.
You can charge a lot more to offer to get people to the UK than you can for just getting them into Europe.
Watching a news item on Sky; family paid smugglers to get int EU. Picked up by authorities just days after getting to Poland, sent straight back by plane to country of origin. |
"Watching a news item on Sky; family paid smugglers to get int EU. Picked up by authorities just days after getting to Poland, sent straight back by plane to country of origin."
That's what Ely would have Britain do. | |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:34 - Nov 25 with 763 views | ghostofescobar |
Little will change, for two main reasons, and that's because they anticipate lost votes and a vitriolic right wing press. Much like drugs still being illegal and the fact that prisons largely don't work. However, despite common sense telling us that the approach to both these should be fundamentally changed, the same political fears prevail. |  |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:38 - Nov 25 with 741 views | lowhouseblue |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:23 - Nov 25 by noggin |
"Watching a news item on Sky; family paid smugglers to get int EU. Picked up by authorities just days after getting to Poland, sent straight back by plane to country of origin."
That's what Ely would have Britain do. |
for me i'd want to have any asylum claim properly and fairly assessed first. but, with that as an obvious exception, policing illegal migration seems uncontroversial. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Yeah, let's have some respect.... on 13:40 - Nov 25 with 718 views | chicoazul |
| Yeah, let's have some respect.... on 11:43 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....for the people smugglers!
They don't deserve a bad rep, just a job innit.
....good lord. |
People have been telling me the same thing about drug dealers for years to be fair. |  |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:43 - Nov 25 with 704 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 12:27 - Nov 25 by nodge_blue |
Everything is interconnected.
Belarus backed by Russia using immigration as a way to destabilise Europe. It's sickening. All because they want to probably land grab chunks of former eastern block countries.
I can't help feel that we have gone past some sort of tipping point on many of these big issues. Even the soil won't support food production in 70 years time.
But on immigration whilst we may be able to find creative ways to support this wave of immigration, if this is the tip of the iceberg, how do we sustain that? Empty homes doesn't equate to government owned homes that are available for government funded accommodation? |
Sickening indeed. It is hard to know how where we go from here and that Belarus example shows there isn't necessarily the international will.
Agreed on lack of liquidity of housing stock btw. Privately owned houses are not available, but it is symptomatic of another problem of vastly unequal distribution of wealth. It's not simply a case of 'Britain is full' as we often hear from some quarters. | |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:56 - Nov 25 with 670 views | jeera |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 08:41 - Nov 25 by m14_blue |
‘With mobiles’
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 |
8 year old children have mobiles here but if a grown adult from another land owns one then something is clearly amiss. |  |
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| Yeah, let's have some respect.... on 14:00 - Nov 25 with 657 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Yeah, let's have some respect.... on 11:43 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....for the people smugglers!
They don't deserve a bad rep, just a job innit.
....good lord. |
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| I'm saying..... on 14:01 - Nov 25 with 656 views | eireblue |
| I'm saying..... on 13:18 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
...."The system for asylum could and should be better here and across Europe"
(if you're just picking random lines from a post I didn't write, nice try though) |
I think you have assumed what i was trying.
You seemed to be using that post, to be critical of other posters, and using that post as an example of a reasonable look at both sides of the argument.
“if you try and look at both sides of the argument on here, all that happens is that you get both cohorts having a pop at you.“
Frankly, you were just using a post from one cohort to have a pop at other posters.
More subtle, but still, just puts you in a cohort having a pop. | | | |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 14:31 - Nov 25 with 617 views | BlueBlueBluex2 |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:56 - Nov 25 by jeera |
8 year old children have mobiles here but if a grown adult from another land owns one then something is clearly amiss. |
I think you have got about the jist of it, yes. |  | | |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 15:25 - Nov 25 with 564 views | Clapham_Junction |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 13:56 - Nov 25 by jeera |
8 year old children have mobiles here but if a grown adult from another land owns one then something is clearly amiss. |
I don't really understand the assumption that asylum seekers have to be poor. Having a bit of money doesn't mean you aren't affected by your country descending into civil war or have the ability to gain legal residency in another country if you flee. | | | |
| Nah, the post I responded to.... on 15:28 - Nov 25 with 561 views | Bloots |
| I'm saying..... on 14:01 - Nov 25 by eireblue |
I think you have assumed what i was trying.
You seemed to be using that post, to be critical of other posters, and using that post as an example of a reasonable look at both sides of the argument.
“if you try and look at both sides of the argument on here, all that happens is that you get both cohorts having a pop at you.“
Frankly, you were just using a post from one cohort to have a pop at other posters.
More subtle, but still, just puts you in a cohort having a pop. |
....wasn't from either of the cohorts, it was from a 3rd cohort that tries to strike some balance between the main cohorts.
I was merely pointing out that being a member of the 3rd cohort leaves you open to abuse from both of the other cohorts.
Effectively if I was having a pop at any of the main cohorts, then it was actually both of the cohorts.
It's complicated stuff.
(cohorts) | |
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| Nah, the post I responded to.... on 15:31 - Nov 25 with 556 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Nah, the post I responded to.... on 15:28 - Nov 25 by Bloots |
....wasn't from either of the cohorts, it was from a 3rd cohort that tries to strike some balance between the main cohorts.
I was merely pointing out that being a member of the 3rd cohort leaves you open to abuse from both of the other cohorts.
Effectively if I was having a pop at any of the main cohorts, then it was actually both of the cohorts.
It's complicated stuff.
(cohorts) |
Splitter.... |  |
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| Aqueducts. (n/t) on 15:33 - Nov 25 with 552 views | Bloots |
| Nah, the post I responded to.... on 15:31 - Nov 25 by Ewan_Oozami |
Splitter.... |
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| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 15:42 - Nov 25 with 536 views | BlueBlueBluex2 |
| If France and The UK can't stop these people smugglers on 15:25 - Nov 25 by Clapham_Junction |
I don't really understand the assumption that asylum seekers have to be poor. Having a bit of money doesn't mean you aren't affected by your country descending into civil war or have the ability to gain legal residency in another country if you flee. |
Ok, so you have to flee your country because of unrest and the risk to life. I got that so far.
So you pack up your Reeboks and make sure your iPhone 13 is fully charged and head off across the globe, not stopping at the glistening Mediterranean or the white tips of the Alps instead parking yourself up in Calais, waiting to risk your life to get across the channel illegally.
I really don't understand the appeal, however as I have made clear earlier, if you are starving and in need of urgent medical care (and crucially, legally a child) then personally, I do not see a problem but then I do not use the NHS, so I could understand why some would still be peeved.
Glad I am not a politician. | | | |
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