| Lots of little digs at Cook but 09:35 - Feb 20 with 12122 views | Chrisd |
the clearance of the squad was very much needed and he certainly brought in players that had the potential to improve us, which KM is getting out of them now. PC might not have gone about it in the right way, but that squad needed clearing out and freshening up that was something that PC did get right. [Post edited 20 Feb 2022 9:37]
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 13:36 - Feb 20 with 1996 views | theinbetweener |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 13:29 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
I'm happier with this year's squad (although not across the board, I think it's illogical to believe most of our midfielders are better than Downes and Dozzell, for instance). But I give managers much much more credit for improving players than I do for spending someone else's money. |
I agree with you on Downes, he would have been integral in this squad and KM’s setup. However, he was the only one of the lot that I was disappointed to see leave, but his head was turned a year before and there was nothing nobody could have done about that. We needed committed players so had no issue in Cook allowing him to leave in that respect. I certainly lost no sleep over the loss of Dozzell though. |  | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 14:26 - Feb 20 with 1932 views | OldFart71 |
If the truth be known Cook was on a loser anyway. I suppose had he have been a bit more successful on the field he may have hung on. But I believe from the outset Ashton was just looking for an excuse to give PC the elbow. He was recruited by our illustrious owner Marcus Evans and despite whatever was said when Gamechanger rode in like a knight in shining armour Paul Cook wasn't theirs or Ashton's choice. He wanted and got a more dynamic up and coming coach/manager. One that carried no previous baggage. He was the right choice, whether he turns out to be a legend or not. | | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 15:44 - Feb 20 with 1864 views | itfcjoe |
Cook totally screwed it up here, anything that has come out of it as a positive is purely by accident rather than design.
Any other manager would have built a good squad with the money we chucked about this summer |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 16:38 - Feb 20 with 1788 views | theinbetweener |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 15:44 - Feb 20 by itfcjoe |
Cook totally screwed it up here, anything that has come out of it as a positive is purely by accident rather than design.
Any other manager would have built a good squad with the money we chucked about this summer |
Even Paul Hurst? | | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 16:53 - Feb 20 with 1764 views | gtsb1966 |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 14:26 - Feb 20 by OldFart71 |
If the truth be known Cook was on a loser anyway. I suppose had he have been a bit more successful on the field he may have hung on. But I believe from the outset Ashton was just looking for an excuse to give PC the elbow. He was recruited by our illustrious owner Marcus Evans and despite whatever was said when Gamechanger rode in like a knight in shining armour Paul Cook wasn't theirs or Ashton's choice. He wanted and got a more dynamic up and coming coach/manager. One that carried no previous baggage. He was the right choice, whether he turns out to be a legend or not. |
If Cook had the same win ratio as KM has had (with Cooks squad)he would still be here. No doubt about it. |  | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:10 - Feb 20 with 1739 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 12:56 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
A mass clearout became necessary because Cook failed and threw the players under the bus to mask his failure.
If you fail to get anything out of a group of players and as a consequence the good ones leave and you sling the rest out, I don't see why you should get any credit for that happening.
Credit for then rebuilding the squad goes to the firefighters of Arizona and their generosity not Cook, ffs. [Post edited 20 Feb 2022 13:03]
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A mass clear out was necessary because we had a lot of players that weren't good enough frankly. Is there really a case for many of them to have stayed? Downes was always going. Dozzell, yes. Wilson as a squad centre half perhaps, but imagine him trying to play in our current back 3.
Gwion was pretty consistently useless over his last two seasons and has done nothing at Wigan. Bishop is in and out of a side battling relegation and when he does play is generally at RB now. Hawkins plays at centre half for Mansfield. Drinan looked a competition winner most of the time but fair play he's doing well at Orient. Lankester can't get a start for Cambridge. Cornell I think we all agree was rubbish. And the lot that went to Colchester were past their sell by date and are now battling L2 relegation.
Our squad now is incomparably better. Not giving Cook credit for that necessarily but it's daft to suggest a fairly big turnaround wasn't needed in the summer. | | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:24 - Feb 20 with 1728 views | textbackup |
you only need to look at where many first teamers are currently sitting in the leagues.
shows a clear out was needed. other left because they wanted to.
yes he shouldnt have given it the biggun as he did, but im so glad those players were shipped out. their time was up. |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:53 - Feb 20 with 1661 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 09:52 - Feb 20 by Mullet |
No it wasn't. If anything everything is vindicating the idea that "Demolition Man" was hubris and an act of ego of a man who couldn't manage effectively.
Let us not forget that when it suited these were "Ashton signings" for some of Cook's biggest supporters. It's clear Gamechanger brings excellent backing, but a lot of that was squandered through poor decisions and conflict in the club outside of the playing staff.
Many of the players flourishing were frozen out by Cook. This is not to say the bloke was some sort of malevolent force, but he was incompetent and wasteful with the opportunity here because he simply refused to evolve or work outside of his terms.
Revising that now is foolish. |
Could also say some of you were waiting to criticise cook from the outset though. |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:20 - Feb 20 with 1624 views | itfcjoe |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:53 - Feb 20 by The_Romford_Blue |
Could also say some of you were waiting to criticise cook from the outset though. |
No one was waiting to criticise Cook, 99% of fans were very happy with the appointment | |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:27 - Feb 20 with 1614 views | Veggie |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:20 - Feb 20 by itfcjoe |
No one was waiting to criticise Cook, 99% of fans were very happy with the appointment |
Maybe Ashton used him as a scapegoat to get rid of the old squad [Post edited 20 Feb 2022 18:31]
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:47 - Feb 20 with 1586 views | jayessess |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:10 - Feb 20 by tractorboy1978 |
A mass clear out was necessary because we had a lot of players that weren't good enough frankly. Is there really a case for many of them to have stayed? Downes was always going. Dozzell, yes. Wilson as a squad centre half perhaps, but imagine him trying to play in our current back 3.
Gwion was pretty consistently useless over his last two seasons and has done nothing at Wigan. Bishop is in and out of a side battling relegation and when he does play is generally at RB now. Hawkins plays at centre half for Mansfield. Drinan looked a competition winner most of the time but fair play he's doing well at Orient. Lankester can't get a start for Cambridge. Cornell I think we all agree was rubbish. And the lot that went to Colchester were past their sell by date and are now battling L2 relegation.
Our squad now is incomparably better. Not giving Cook credit for that necessarily but it's daft to suggest a fairly big turnaround wasn't needed in the summer. |
But the credit is the point of the thread, isn't it?
Whoever had been manager of Ipswich Town in May 2021 would've moved a lot of people on. We had a huge squad, including 19 first-team players out of contract, lots of them well into their 30s and on relatively big wages. Getting rid of players was always going to be the easy bit.
The real challenge was managing a transitional squad to a decent league finish, identifying the good players and getting them to buy into a future at Ipswich Town, then planning a squad that would be ready to win football matches on August 1st 2021. He failed at all 3. [Post edited 20 Feb 2022 19:00]
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:55 - Feb 20 with 1568 views | PJH |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:53 - Feb 20 by The_Romford_Blue |
Could also say some of you were waiting to criticise cook from the outset though. |
Cook certainly supplied plenty of ammunition to anyone that was looking to criticise what he did at ITFC both at the back end of 2020/21 and the first chunk of this season.
It is amazing that we are now in a position to get something out of this season (maybe) despite what Cook did. |  | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:09 - Feb 20 with 1538 views | theinbetweener |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:47 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
But the credit is the point of the thread, isn't it?
Whoever had been manager of Ipswich Town in May 2021 would've moved a lot of people on. We had a huge squad, including 19 first-team players out of contract, lots of them well into their 30s and on relatively big wages. Getting rid of players was always going to be the easy bit.
The real challenge was managing a transitional squad to a decent league finish, identifying the good players and getting them to buy into a future at Ipswich Town, then planning a squad that would be ready to win football matches on August 1st 2021. He failed at all 3. [Post edited 20 Feb 2022 19:00]
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I would argue that another manager may not have been so ruthless with the outgoings, I think that’s the point of the post. And for that I am thankful to PC on. What he did after that was a complete failure as I think we can all agree on. | | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:12 - Feb 20 with 1535 views | Dubtractor |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 18:55 - Feb 20 by PJH |
Cook certainly supplied plenty of ammunition to anyone that was looking to criticise what he did at ITFC both at the back end of 2020/21 and the first chunk of this season.
It is amazing that we are now in a position to get something out of this season (maybe) despite what Cook did. |
Well quite.
I was a big Cook cheerleader before and after he joined, but alarm bells were ringing pretty early on if I'm honest, for reasons both on the pitch and the way he went about his business off it. |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:17 - Feb 20 with 1518 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:53 - Feb 20 by The_Romford_Blue |
Could also say some of you were waiting to criticise cook from the outset though. |
I was 100% behind Cook. He looked to be an absolutely quality appointment with his track record.
I started to have reservations when he brought in a completely inexperienced backroom staff and decided not to appoint an assistant manager. But I stayed behind him 100%.
I had more reservations when he started to throw players under the bus and threw away a good chance to make to play offs. But again stood behind him.
I made excuse after excuse this season, in the hope that things would turn around.
Irreality, I'd say he created as much damage to the club as Keane and Hurst.
He was inflexible with his tactics.He rarely took responsibility for bad results and instead threw players under the bus (even talking about another squad overhaul just before he was sacked). He did nothing to keep Downes and Dozzell at the club (Woolfie looked to be going the same way until McKenna arrived). He treated a loyal and long serving player in Chambers appallingly (I thought it was time for Chambers to go but there is a right and a wrong way to deal with things). He was a disaster. [Post edited 20 Feb 2022 19:22]
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:30 - Feb 20 with 1493 views | Mullet |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 17:53 - Feb 20 by The_Romford_Blue |
Could also say some of you were waiting to criticise cook from the outset though. |
"Some of you"? Based on what exactly? When he was in the stands at Accrington and we'd just secured a bloke who's standing couldn't really be any higher, who (and how) "were to criticise him from the outset"?
If you can't read a tenth of the media since his departure and conclude he simply thought he could do as he pleased here, whilst the whole club changed around him then there's little helping you. But it only underlines how badly he misjudged things and failed here again.
There was more than enough time to see it before the summer, and more than enough evidence that it was down to him we went backwards. When he was then given everything he continued to cock things up.
Why would anyone, least of all someone like me who has nothing but disdain for us being relegated have wanted that to happen? |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:42 - Feb 20 with 1456 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 16:53 - Feb 20 by gtsb1966 |
If Cook had the same win ratio as KM has had (with Cooks squad)he would still be here. No doubt about it. |
100%. And backing him as they did in the summer the way they did suggests they were more than happy to go with him.
I don't know why people are looking for excuses. He failed miserably, and that's just the way it is. McK hasn't benefited because Ashton secretly wanted his own man, or because Cook's players have suddenly come good, or any other convoluted excuse. MCK has taken the same group of players and transformed results, resilience and play because he's getting everything right so far. Better coaching setup (apparently), better man management, better preparation for games and better management of games. Simple as that. |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:49 - Feb 20 with 1421 views | jas0999 |
Agree we needed a change and it was the right thing to overhaul the squad. Sadly, Cook proved to be not good enough to manage this talented group. Good luck to PC. | | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 20:03 - Feb 20 with 1392 views | jayessess |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 19:09 - Feb 20 by theinbetweener |
I would argue that another manager may not have been so ruthless with the outgoings, I think that’s the point of the post. And for that I am thankful to PC on. What he did after that was a complete failure as I think we can all agree on. |
The failure starts long before the outgoings, doesn't it?
I think any manager would've been just as ruthless. Most of our outgoings were absolute no brainers.
The only exits I can see that another manager might have stopped - Wilson, Bishop, Downes, Dozzell, Gibbs and Lankester. I could've lived with any of them going the other way. | |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 20:28 - Feb 20 with 1358 views | theinbetweener |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 20:03 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
The failure starts long before the outgoings, doesn't it?
I think any manager would've been just as ruthless. Most of our outgoings were absolute no brainers.
The only exits I can see that another manager might have stopped - Wilson, Bishop, Downes, Dozzell, Gibbs and Lankester. I could've lived with any of them going the other way. |
Probably, but I think many people including myself were just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just see out the season, and start judging him from the beginning of this season. Obviously that was a mistake and he should have gone sooner than he did, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Everyone has a different opinion on how things should and shouldn’t be done, but for me personally I was fully behind the ruthless demolition job, the “rip it up and start from scratch” approach. The club as a whole, from top to bottom was absolutely toxic and needed stripping. Of course, the sale of the club/new ownership had a big impact in creating a brighter future.
To be honest I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on too much here, Cook’s record was abysmal, and he failed miserably in most departments, I simply just don’t hold as much sentimentality as some people, to the treatment of the former deadwood, that’s all. Maybe that just comes from years of utter frustration and constant disappointment. I’d just washed my hands with every player at that time. | | | |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 20:45 - Feb 20 with 1316 views | jayessess |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 20:28 - Feb 20 by theinbetweener |
Probably, but I think many people including myself were just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just see out the season, and start judging him from the beginning of this season. Obviously that was a mistake and he should have gone sooner than he did, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Everyone has a different opinion on how things should and shouldn’t be done, but for me personally I was fully behind the ruthless demolition job, the “rip it up and start from scratch” approach. The club as a whole, from top to bottom was absolutely toxic and needed stripping. Of course, the sale of the club/new ownership had a big impact in creating a brighter future.
To be honest I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on too much here, Cook’s record was abysmal, and he failed miserably in most departments, I simply just don’t hold as much sentimentality as some people, to the treatment of the former deadwood, that’s all. Maybe that just comes from years of utter frustration and constant disappointment. I’d just washed my hands with every player at that time. |
Personally I was sceptical of the "ruthless demolition job" stuff not out of sentimentality but because of what it said about Cook.
There were lots of players at the club in 2021 who should have gone long before that, when their previous contracts had expired even. But good football managers come in and inspire players, improve them individually and collectively, whoever they are. That's what we're seeing with McKenna.
A manager comes in, fails to improve anything or anyone, then declares everyone in the building a waste of space? My alarm bells are ringing. I knew Cook would get a good go at this season and that we'd have to play things out with him, but I wasn't confident we'd end up in a good place at all. | |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 21:00 - Feb 20 with 1286 views | jeera |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 20:28 - Feb 20 by theinbetweener |
Probably, but I think many people including myself were just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just see out the season, and start judging him from the beginning of this season. Obviously that was a mistake and he should have gone sooner than he did, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Everyone has a different opinion on how things should and shouldn’t be done, but for me personally I was fully behind the ruthless demolition job, the “rip it up and start from scratch” approach. The club as a whole, from top to bottom was absolutely toxic and needed stripping. Of course, the sale of the club/new ownership had a big impact in creating a brighter future.
To be honest I don’t think we’re really disagreeing on too much here, Cook’s record was abysmal, and he failed miserably in most departments, I simply just don’t hold as much sentimentality as some people, to the treatment of the former deadwood, that’s all. Maybe that just comes from years of utter frustration and constant disappointment. I’d just washed my hands with every player at that time. |
"I simply just don’t hold as much sentimentality as some people, to the treatment of the former deadwood"
With respect you don't seem to be taking on board what people have been saying. It's almost as though some of the replies don't exist.
No one has spoken of sentimentality as a reason to keep that squad, or even that they'd wanted that squad going forwards following that season. Pretty much everyone has said it needed to change but that's hardly some great footballing insight given the age and contract situation of several of the players.
Yet you seemed to have got bogged down in this narrative.
You are still overlooking how we were on the edge of the play-offs and as such that was not the time to be sounding off about the players and how they would be shown the door.
He was brought in to inspire the team for the final push of that season, not disarm them completely. He tried his jig and his cuppa and all the talk and the cheeky grin but that doesn't win games.
The stripping could have come later, that's the whole point of the summer!
You don't walk into a new club and treat people like that and expect results.
This shouldn't need repeating again really. |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 22:10 - Feb 20 with 1189 views | jayessess |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 21:00 - Feb 20 by jeera |
"I simply just don’t hold as much sentimentality as some people, to the treatment of the former deadwood"
With respect you don't seem to be taking on board what people have been saying. It's almost as though some of the replies don't exist.
No one has spoken of sentimentality as a reason to keep that squad, or even that they'd wanted that squad going forwards following that season. Pretty much everyone has said it needed to change but that's hardly some great footballing insight given the age and contract situation of several of the players.
Yet you seemed to have got bogged down in this narrative.
You are still overlooking how we were on the edge of the play-offs and as such that was not the time to be sounding off about the players and how they would be shown the door.
He was brought in to inspire the team for the final push of that season, not disarm them completely. He tried his jig and his cuppa and all the talk and the cheeky grin but that doesn't win games.
The stripping could have come later, that's the whole point of the summer!
You don't walk into a new club and treat people like that and expect results.
This shouldn't need repeating again really. |
One other thing about Cook and the demolition. I really think there was a lot of appetite not just to move players on, but for Cook to give them a bit of a kicking too. I think people took a bit of perverse pleasure even out of the botched double training sessions, sending people to the U23s, the damning press interviews where he called them "pub players" and said he'd be "demolition man".
But it was all terrible terrible man management. I really hope we never ever end up cheering on that kind of really massively out-of-date "tough love" ever again. | |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 22:25 - Feb 20 with 1136 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 22:10 - Feb 20 by jayessess |
One other thing about Cook and the demolition. I really think there was a lot of appetite not just to move players on, but for Cook to give them a bit of a kicking too. I think people took a bit of perverse pleasure even out of the botched double training sessions, sending people to the U23s, the damning press interviews where he called them "pub players" and said he'd be "demolition man".
But it was all terrible terrible man management. I really hope we never ever end up cheering on that kind of really massively out-of-date "tough love" ever again. |
PC just comes from a line of older managers used to tough love, it's not his fault tbh, he played in an era where it was normal for managers to even punch players, swear, scream, throw sht etc. It still works at some clubs the tough love, but most players now expect more respect, more calmness and calculated discussions over loud screaming individuals. |  |
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| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 22:50 - Feb 20 with 1083 views | Stenvict |
| Lots of little digs at Cook but on 12:44 - Feb 20 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Edwards can't game for Wigan (and was offered a contract)
Downes had pretty much downed tools since Palace came knocking and wanted out
Dozzell had his release clause met.
That leaves Wilson who is yet to actually get promted with Plymouth.
So 3 or the 4 beyond the clubs control really and tbr 4th in the same league.
As for those that remain, kudos for those that chose to keep them around the place.
Rest, L2 merchants who are barely keeping their heads above water. |
I bet if you asked fans of clubs like Middlesbrough (Morsy) and Chaplin (Barnsley) who were questioning the decision when they were sold, they saw us struggling in mid table L1, they would have thought it was the right decision.
Turns out we just needed an actual coach. Maybe Col U just need a decent coach to get the best out of those players.
I don't agree with the way players like Chambers were treated by Cook. He was a loyal servant to the club and I would've had him still here as club captain and backup a la Mark Noble at West Ham.
Even if 'demolition man' didn't happen, there still would've been a mass clear out in the summer as we had so many loans and players out of contract, Cook should've gone about it a different way. | |
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