| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week 04:57 - May 24 with 41935 views | The_Romford_Blue |
1,000 Animal Rising protesters turning up to ruin the Derby at Epsom. Track has applied for an injunction to ban them or they’ll ruin it but even if they get the injunction (unlikely I’d imagine), it’ll be a nightmare stopping them with Epsom’s course layout. Epsom, unlike Aintree, is an open track and getting on to ruin it will not be that difficult unfortunately. It’s part of a public footpath when racing isn’t on to the side of the course so can be accessed if people want to quite easily. They’ve specifically said today in writing and in a meeting with the course that they plan to turn up and ruin both days by sitting on the track.
So that’ll be another sporting event I’m in attendance that these tw*ts ruin. That’s if I even get there with the now added train strike announced conveniently three days ago. Two days off work, train tickets, race day tickets at £140 a pop per day and it’ll probably end up cancelled anyway because it’s 2023 and nothing I like doing goes without someone sitting in the way trying to ruin it.
I doubt TWTD is the place to moan about this though as, like with the Snooker World Championship last month, the racing isn’t something the majority on here enjoy so it’s ok. They’ll no doubt target a town game soon just to really make me despise them. Protest for protest sake. There’s always something someone somewhere disagrees with and will then protest about and attempt to ruin.
What a depressing time to be a human being. [Post edited 24 May 2023 5:03]
|  |
| |  |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:01 - May 24 with 1728 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:59 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
‘As things stand, in terms of concrete, non-speculative, empirical evidence on the specific issue of pain, opponents of the padded whip have failed to supply substantive scientific evidence that the padded whip causes considerable harm and discomfort to the horse.Footnote26 There are all kinds of speculative claims and attempts at tangential types of analysis and data mining which are ‘re-packaged’ as ‘evidence’ on the on the issue of pain. Footnote27 However, one has to wonder at the repeated failure to furnish any relevant evidence specifically on the question of pain and in particular the physical effects of the padded whip.’
From someone with no association to horse racing. Suggests there is zero evidence that the whip causes pain to a horse. Literally zero. So if the antis can’t produce evidence as to why it ‘hurts’ despite being told repeatedly that it does not, then why he should we bend over backwards pandering to them with extra tests? If the racing peoples tests aren’t enough for you then some data suggesting otherwise that isn’t as biased against it from the likes of PETA are as you claim those in racing are for it.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19406940.2021.2005662 |
Lol, so your example of "loads of data" is an article acknowledging the absence of data.
It's entirely logical to me why someone against horse racing would not conduct such an experiment - on the basis that it would be cruel to animals.
For those in favour of it, that issue doesn't apply as you're all so sure it causes no pain. So what is stopping the BHRA or others from doing so? [Post edited 24 May 2023 18:02]
|  |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:03 - May 24 with 1713 views | NeedhamChris |
Here's a different question for you as might save a lot of effort.
If it were scientifically proven beyond doubt to cause any amount of pain - would you support a ban? | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:13 - May 24 with 1668 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:59 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
‘As things stand, in terms of concrete, non-speculative, empirical evidence on the specific issue of pain, opponents of the padded whip have failed to supply substantive scientific evidence that the padded whip causes considerable harm and discomfort to the horse.Footnote26 There are all kinds of speculative claims and attempts at tangential types of analysis and data mining which are ‘re-packaged’ as ‘evidence’ on the on the issue of pain. Footnote27 However, one has to wonder at the repeated failure to furnish any relevant evidence specifically on the question of pain and in particular the physical effects of the padded whip.’
From someone with no association to horse racing. Suggests there is zero evidence that the whip causes pain to a horse. Literally zero. So if the antis can’t produce evidence as to why it ‘hurts’ despite being told repeatedly that it does not, then why he should we bend over backwards pandering to them with extra tests? If the racing peoples tests aren’t enough for you then some data suggesting otherwise that isn’t as biased against it from the likes of PETA are as you claim those in racing are for it.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19406940.2021.2005662 |
From the very same article you've selectively quoted from:
"Advocates for the continued use of the padded whip, in accordance with certain guidelines, routinely claim that the instrument does not cause pain to the horse. However, they fail to adduce much in the way of scientific evidence for this view"
Sorry, Rommers, but that article is not research, it's effectively an opinion piece reviewing some of the literature, and it's main conclusion in regard to the whip causing pain is that we don't know enough to say for sure either way. |  |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:16 - May 24 with 1649 views | J2BLUE |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:13 - May 24 by Herbivore |
From the very same article you've selectively quoted from:
"Advocates for the continued use of the padded whip, in accordance with certain guidelines, routinely claim that the instrument does not cause pain to the horse. However, they fail to adduce much in the way of scientific evidence for this view"
Sorry, Rommers, but that article is not research, it's effectively an opinion piece reviewing some of the literature, and it's main conclusion in regard to the whip causing pain is that we don't know enough to say for sure either way. |
So lets get one. Rommers and I will take turns hitting you with it and if it hurts we will say sorry.
You in? |  |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:20 - May 24 with 1624 views | eireblue |
Anyone else wondering where horses die?
About 1 in 400 around the time of racing, and another 1 in I can’t remember say 1000 die in a field.
Where are the rest of them? |  | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:20 - May 24 with 1617 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:59 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
‘As things stand, in terms of concrete, non-speculative, empirical evidence on the specific issue of pain, opponents of the padded whip have failed to supply substantive scientific evidence that the padded whip causes considerable harm and discomfort to the horse.Footnote26 There are all kinds of speculative claims and attempts at tangential types of analysis and data mining which are ‘re-packaged’ as ‘evidence’ on the on the issue of pain. Footnote27 However, one has to wonder at the repeated failure to furnish any relevant evidence specifically on the question of pain and in particular the physical effects of the padded whip.’
From someone with no association to horse racing. Suggests there is zero evidence that the whip causes pain to a horse. Literally zero. So if the antis can’t produce evidence as to why it ‘hurts’ despite being told repeatedly that it does not, then why he should we bend over backwards pandering to them with extra tests? If the racing peoples tests aren’t enough for you then some data suggesting otherwise that isn’t as biased against it from the likes of PETA are as you claim those in racing are for it.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19406940.2021.2005662 |
Oh, and you say "from someone with no association with horse racing" and yet at the bottom of the article there is the disclosure statement which says......
Disclosure statement
Professor Mahon O'Brien is the Independent Chair of the British Horse Racing Authority's Ethics Committee.
Edit - They are also a philosopher, not a scientist. [Post edited 24 May 2023 18:24]
| |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:22 - May 24 with 1614 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:16 - May 24 by J2BLUE |
So lets get one. Rommers and I will take turns hitting you with it and if it hurts we will say sorry.
You in? |
I can fight back, unlike a saddled up horse being ridden at top speed. So on that basis, I'm game. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:22 - May 24 with 1612 views | nodge_blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 07:59 - May 24 by Herbivore |
Good on them. Perhaps one day you'll step outside your bubble, Rommers, and actually care about something deeper than gambling and ITFC. Then you might start to understand why these people are protesting and why train staff are striking. [Post edited 24 May 2023 8:02]
|
Isn't there a problem though when protest becomes disruption. A minority stops a legal event because they don't like it.
Suppose just stop oil protest against football and stop that happening because teams use buses to get to away matches and too many fans travel by car, train and plane to watch them. Who gets to say what's right or wrong?
Isn't the point of democracy to argue a case in parliament and then pass legislation to stop things and it is deemed the consensus of society?
We are in danger that these protests will become violent - like on London Bridge last week and it all kicks off. |  |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:23 - May 24 with 1612 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:43 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
How do you know they haven’t? They have loads of data highlighting how it doesn’t hurt the horse. |
Not sure how this thread managed to move to the use of a racing whip but suppose it increases the prospect of becoming a ten pager.
If the whip doesn’t hurt, or cause damage to the horse, why is it the regulations were tightened earlier this year, and penalties for excessive use increased?
Hit some one on the hand with a racing whip doesn’t hurt (much) but if used on a horse it is likely that the stiffer part of the whip will come in contact and this causes pain. This is why the number of strikes is limited, and why the number has again been reduced. |  |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:24 - May 24 with 1604 views | J2BLUE |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:22 - May 24 by Herbivore |
I can fight back, unlike a saddled up horse being ridden at top speed. So on that basis, I'm game. |
I think a horse could comfortably kill a human if it wanted to. | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:28 - May 24 with 1592 views | NeedhamChris |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:20 - May 24 by Herbivore |
Oh, and you say "from someone with no association with horse racing" and yet at the bottom of the article there is the disclosure statement which says......
Disclosure statement
Professor Mahon O'Brien is the Independent Chair of the British Horse Racing Authority's Ethics Committee.
Edit - They are also a philosopher, not a scientist. [Post edited 24 May 2023 18:24]
|
I didn't spot that. In which case, the case for the defence is falling apart. | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:30 - May 24 with 1584 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:22 - May 24 by nodge_blue |
Isn't there a problem though when protest becomes disruption. A minority stops a legal event because they don't like it.
Suppose just stop oil protest against football and stop that happening because teams use buses to get to away matches and too many fans travel by car, train and plane to watch them. Who gets to say what's right or wrong?
Isn't the point of democracy to argue a case in parliament and then pass legislation to stop things and it is deemed the consensus of society?
We are in danger that these protests will become violent - like on London Bridge last week and it all kicks off. |
I don't see it as a problem, no. With the way this country is currently we need more civil disobedience if anything. | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:33 - May 24 with 1561 views | nodge_blue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:30 - May 24 by Herbivore |
I don't see it as a problem, no. With the way this country is currently we need more civil disobedience if anything. |
I understand that it feels like we are in a mess as a country and something has to change.
But you take my point re football? I mean ITFC spent 800k on electricity just to grow the grass so that a football match could take place. That's hardly an environmentally conscious decision.
What would we think if we couldn't watch football next year due to disruptive protest? | |
| |
| On a plate in France? (n/t) on 18:38 - May 24 with 1539 views | Bloots |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:20 - May 24 by eireblue |
Anyone else wondering where horses die?
About 1 in 400 around the time of racing, and another 1 in I can’t remember say 1000 die in a field.
Where are the rest of them? |
|  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:39 - May 24 with 1538 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:24 - May 24 by J2BLUE |
I think a horse could comfortably kill a human if it wanted to. |
It's a shame more don't. | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:42 - May 24 with 1514 views | J2BLUE |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:39 - May 24 by Herbivore |
It's a shame more don't. |
The horse would be put down. Which is a bit odd really. Like when humans go into the sea and get attacked by a shark and people blame the shark... | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:45 - May 24 with 1498 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:42 - May 24 by J2BLUE |
The horse would be put down. Which is a bit odd really. Like when humans go into the sea and get attacked by a shark and people blame the shark... |
Hard to argue that the shark has done much wrong really. | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:50 - May 24 with 1464 views | eireblue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:42 - May 24 by J2BLUE |
The horse would be put down. Which is a bit odd really. Like when humans go into the sea and get attacked by a shark and people blame the shark... |
Hmmmmm now there is a thought….
Horses are a prey animal, in terms of fight or flight, they run, unless cornered or protecting a foal.
Their strategy for survival is a bit like being in a group of people running from a lion, best not be the slowest.
It is interesting that sometimes people use human emotional terms about animals and sometimes they don’t. E.g. Horses are happy when running about. Probably in the same way Lambs are happy when frolicking in a field.
Of course what horses are doing, when running around in field, is practicing, not being the slowest thing being chased by a predator. It is sort of an evolutionary thing. Not saying they don’t enjoy it.
Some horses will run until they have a cardiac event and die, when in flight mode.
Sometimes they do that with “encouragement” for entertainment.
So I propose we should use this idea and reframe your experiment.
We could base it on that popular 90’s TV show where Lycra clad mammals went up against each other to test fight and flight style things, crikey, what was that called agin…..
Anyhoo. We will put some mammals in an environment where their flight or fight responses are triggered, and bet on it. How would you like to go up against a lion?
It might not hurt, much, we will check to see if the lion looks to be enjoying themselves. | | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:57 - May 24 with 1431 views | J2BLUE |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:50 - May 24 by eireblue |
Hmmmmm now there is a thought….
Horses are a prey animal, in terms of fight or flight, they run, unless cornered or protecting a foal.
Their strategy for survival is a bit like being in a group of people running from a lion, best not be the slowest.
It is interesting that sometimes people use human emotional terms about animals and sometimes they don’t. E.g. Horses are happy when running about. Probably in the same way Lambs are happy when frolicking in a field.
Of course what horses are doing, when running around in field, is practicing, not being the slowest thing being chased by a predator. It is sort of an evolutionary thing. Not saying they don’t enjoy it.
Some horses will run until they have a cardiac event and die, when in flight mode.
Sometimes they do that with “encouragement” for entertainment.
So I propose we should use this idea and reframe your experiment.
We could base it on that popular 90’s TV show where Lycra clad mammals went up against each other to test fight and flight style things, crikey, what was that called agin…..
Anyhoo. We will put some mammals in an environment where their flight or fight responses are triggered, and bet on it. How would you like to go up against a lion?
It might not hurt, much, we will check to see if the lion looks to be enjoying themselves. |
Are you suggesting there is as much danger for a horse as there would be for an unarmed human going one on one with a lion?
Have you seen the build up to races? Sometimes experienced horses know they are about to race because they have seen it many times before yet they look incredibly calm and relaxed. That's about as scientific as what you have just said. | |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 18:59 - May 24 with 1427 views | StokieBlue |
Not convinced you can call it a neutral source when in the disclaimer it says this:
"Professor Mahon O'Brien is the Independent Chair of the British Horse Racing Authority's Ethics Committee."
It's also a meta-study of existing studies which are notoriously easy to skew.
It's taken me all of 20 seconds to find an actual unbiased source where the researchers in question have analysed the structure of skin cells of both humans and horses and found they will feel pain equally:
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/11/12/first-conclusive-evidence
"Professor McGreevy and colleagues examined whether horses are likely to feel as much pain as humans would when whipped. Using microscopic samples of skin from 10 deceased humans and 20 euthanised horses, they looked for differences between the species’ skin structure and nerve supply.
The results revealed “no significant difference” between humans and horses in the concentration of nerve endings in the outer layers of skin, nor any difference in thickness of this skin layer."
“Repeated strikes of the whip in horses that are fatigued as they end a race are likely to be distressing and cause suffering. A horse’s loss of agency as it undergoes this kind of repeated treatment is thought to lead to learned helplessness.”
The paper was also covered in the Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/12/horse-whip-humans-feel-same-pain-s
In summary, if you think it's fine for horses you should think it's fine to whip you as well as both your skin structures will feel pain in the same way.
SB |  | | |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 19:03 - May 24 with 1409 views | bluelagos |
7 pages and multiple other threads on the rights and wrongs of horse racing with regards to animal welfare...seems self evident that the protesters direct action has achieved a lot more (in terms of raising the issue) than in previous years when they followed the approved ways of protesting. |  |
| |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 19:08 - May 24 with 1382 views | KrakenBlue |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 17:49 - May 24 by The_Romford_Blue |
Ok so let’s say racing gets cancelled then. The protestors win and we wake up tomorrow and racing has been permanently banned. What will the 50,000 thoroughbred racehorses in the UK be doing going forward?
|
Wouldn't a more sensible outcome be that no new racehorses could be registered or bred, so there wouldn't be an issue with a load of race horses and the owners would do whatever they do with the old horses now (lasagne, glue, France, who knows).
It's not complicated | | | |
| Yeah, I expect that..... on 19:09 - May 24 with 1389 views | Bloots |
| Looks like another great sporting event is getting ruined next week on 19:03 - May 24 by bluelagos |
7 pages and multiple other threads on the rights and wrongs of horse racing with regards to animal welfare...seems self evident that the protesters direct action has achieved a lot more (in terms of raising the issue) than in previous years when they followed the approved ways of protesting. |
....horse racing will now get banned because of what's left of the TWTD LBF getting all sanctimonious on an internet forum.
Arf. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
| |
| Yeah, I expect that..... on 19:11 - May 24 with 1372 views | StokieBlue |
| Yeah, I expect that..... on 19:09 - May 24 by Bloots |
....horse racing will now get banned because of what's left of the TWTD LBF getting all sanctimonious on an internet forum.
Arf. |
It's amazing how one can post so often and yet contribute nothing.
It's quite the skill.
SB | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
