| Migrant Breakfast Benefits 13:25 - Aug 9 with 22068 views | Mullet |
I get she's a Daily Heil right-wing shill, but apart from this being a classic from their playbook it does raise a really interesting question about using child poverty as political currency doesn't it?
Having seen kids who go hungry regularly, it seems a bit odd to do the whole "these barges are too luxurious/not punishing enough" routine whilst highlighting one of the biggest sources of shame caused by the government's approach. |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:34 - Aug 10 with 2812 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:07 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Oi Herby ya big loon.
Your downvotes are a given but I genuinely would like to know why you think the boat is unacceptable and also what the Herb solution to the migrant situation is. |
Open up safe routes for migrants. Spend the money wasted in this demonising of migrants on officials to speed up the application process so those genuine asylum seekers can become welcome and contributing members of society and those fail in their application are no longer taking up valuable space in accommodation.
None of which suits the government.
Edit. Already addressed by Herbie. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 11:38]
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:36 - Aug 10 with 2814 views | Darth_Koont |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:27 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
That isn't really addressing the question.
Fire - I have heard something about this but if it was unsafe it wouldn't have got a ticket.
The inefficiency of the home office to process the asylum applications is beyond ridiculous, most sane people accept this.
Also, it is my opinion that we should open up multiple safe legal routes for asylum seekers for anyone from any nation to come here and we should give preference to women, children and families.
But that is another matter.
What's wrong with the boat? |
You’ve answered that yourself.
The barge is an answer to a system the UK government has run down by design. For political reasons more than anything else.
Handle asylum seekers and other migrants properly and according to international law and human rights, then we wouldn’t have anything like the same migrant “problem”. A problem we’re not solving anyway no matter how many barges they want to throw at it. |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:41 - Aug 10 with 2770 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 17:18 - Aug 9 by blueasfook |
Well that problem is rooted in the 1970s/80s when Margaret Thatcher enabled people to buy their social housing at knock-down rates with no plan to replace housing stocks. |
So, just as it is Labour's fault for most of the ills of this country, that one is Thatcher's.
It is shame the party in power is impotent to change any laws passed since the 1970s! We are now going back nearly 50 years to shift the blame! |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:02 - Aug 10 with 2706 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:27 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
That isn't really addressing the question.
Fire - I have heard something about this but if it was unsafe it wouldn't have got a ticket.
The inefficiency of the home office to process the asylum applications is beyond ridiculous, most sane people accept this.
Also, it is my opinion that we should open up multiple safe legal routes for asylum seekers for anyone from any nation to come here and we should give preference to women, children and families.
But that is another matter.
What's wrong with the boat? |
What's wrong with the boat aside from it being more than double its intended capacity and being labelled a death trap? |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:05 - Aug 10 with 2681 views | itfcjoe |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 10:38 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Ok, I'll bite.
Personally I think it's a bit ridiculous to summon a boat to hold 500 people when there are the same number coming over every day, it doesn't make any sense to me. 100 boats might work but one is quite frankly ridiculous.
However, I don't understand in any shape or form why the accommodation is deemed by some as unacceptable for people who have supposedly fled their country in fear of death. It's safe and warm and they are getting fed and watered while Mr and Mrs normal are having panic attacks every time the postman arrives with another bill.
I appreciate that some people just want to moan about everything UK.com does but if this is where we are at then you've run out of material baby. |
It's just an attempt at optics, the Govt want to make out like it's doing something, and they want to make it look cruel.
Like Rwanda scheme, these are massively expensive plans that don't solve any problem.
Cost of a barge is apparently £9.28 cheaper per head (as an absolute maximum) than the hotel scheme. But forgets all the setup costs for this, how few people it can look after, how many hotels we have already built etc
Cost of Rwanda scheme is estimated to be £169k per person it moves.
It's just about looking hard, looking cruel, and spunking money away on massively expensive scheme rather than any attempt to do the right* thing
*whether you are on the left and want them given more dignity, or on the right and want more bang for taxpayers buck or anywhere in between. It's no solution to any problem
The only solution is looking at claims quicker, getting them processed and either getting them into the country and eligible for work, or getting them back if claim fails.
If you were someone more worried about use of taxpayers funds, there would be many opportunities to even get them working whilst claims processing and paying tax both directly through PAYE and indirectly via purchasing, spending of wages. |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:08 - Aug 10 with 2673 views | itfcjoe |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:02 - Aug 10 by Herbivore |
What's wrong with the boat aside from it being more than double its intended capacity and being labelled a death trap? |
I was watching a documentary on Great Storm of 87 the other day, and there was at the time a barge ship filled with asylum seekers at that point - can't remember the details - so no doubt another Thatcherite wet dream for the Tory cosplay party | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:12 - Aug 10 with 2652 views | Mullet |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 10:38 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Ok, I'll bite.
Personally I think it's a bit ridiculous to summon a boat to hold 500 people when there are the same number coming over every day, it doesn't make any sense to me. 100 boats might work but one is quite frankly ridiculous.
However, I don't understand in any shape or form why the accommodation is deemed by some as unacceptable for people who have supposedly fled their country in fear of death. It's safe and warm and they are getting fed and watered while Mr and Mrs normal are having panic attacks every time the postman arrives with another bill.
I appreciate that some people just want to moan about everything UK.com does but if this is where we are at then you've run out of material baby. |
I agree, but I'd say the biggest and most persistent criticism is from the racists that are upset that it's not got that deathcamp/holding pen vibe and conditions they seem to crave.
The whole thing is another corrupt performance. Their mates get rich, they get to divert attention and leave people arguing over minute details whilst ignoring the mess made once again.
What we should be doing is taxing largescale landlords heavily and building enough housing and infrastructure to support anyone. NIMBYism is a useful tool for them, but the social inequality this highlights seems to be bafflingly overlooked. | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:20 - Aug 10 with 2623 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:34 - Aug 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Open up safe routes for migrants. Spend the money wasted in this demonising of migrants on officials to speed up the application process so those genuine asylum seekers can become welcome and contributing members of society and those fail in their application are no longer taking up valuable space in accommodation.
None of which suits the government.
Edit. Already addressed by Herbie. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 11:38]
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Yeah, that also doesn't answer the question.
I've already said that the system is screwed, I've also said that the boat is ridiculous because at a capacity of 500 it isn't worth the paperwork to do it.
I just want to know what's wrong with living on it.
I know some loons wake up in the morning with a hard on trying to think of things to moan about but putting genuine refugees who were in fear of their life into serviceable accommodation with food and water shouldn't be one of them. |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:27 - Aug 10 with 2582 views | eireblue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:27 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
That isn't really addressing the question.
Fire - I have heard something about this but if it was unsafe it wouldn't have got a ticket.
The inefficiency of the home office to process the asylum applications is beyond ridiculous, most sane people accept this.
Also, it is my opinion that we should open up multiple safe legal routes for asylum seekers for anyone from any nation to come here and we should give preference to women, children and families.
But that is another matter.
What's wrong with the boat? |
We are spending 1.6B on the contract for these boats and they haven’t been procured through a proper tendering process.
How do you know the boats are a cheaper and better option to house asylum seekers?
The Home Office are not publishing any details on the relative costs.
My taxes could be spent on more civil servants and those costs are known, and cheaper.
So the problem with the barge, is all it is doing is moving asylum seekers away from nicer areas, and helping the government create wedge issues.
One of the stated objectives of the government is to reduce pull factors to discourage migration across the channel. There is evidence that this will not work, and zero evidence that it will. Since the idea of making the U.K. hostile to migrants and asylum seekers, there are more people arriving in the U.K.
Use of the barges is one of the mechanisms the government is using to demonstrate that the U.K. is not a great place to try and get into.
So essentially my tax money is being used inefficiently, by a private company, to purposefully make life a little bit more sh1t for a bunch of vulnerable people.
As an employer and business owner, what would you focus on of if you had an employee that wasted money and did a worse job, but kept pointing out he was as equally punctual as other employees. |  | | |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:39 - Aug 10 with 2538 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:27 - Aug 10 by eireblue |
We are spending 1.6B on the contract for these boats and they haven’t been procured through a proper tendering process.
How do you know the boats are a cheaper and better option to house asylum seekers?
The Home Office are not publishing any details on the relative costs.
My taxes could be spent on more civil servants and those costs are known, and cheaper.
So the problem with the barge, is all it is doing is moving asylum seekers away from nicer areas, and helping the government create wedge issues.
One of the stated objectives of the government is to reduce pull factors to discourage migration across the channel. There is evidence that this will not work, and zero evidence that it will. Since the idea of making the U.K. hostile to migrants and asylum seekers, there are more people arriving in the U.K.
Use of the barges is one of the mechanisms the government is using to demonstrate that the U.K. is not a great place to try and get into.
So essentially my tax money is being used inefficiently, by a private company, to purposefully make life a little bit more sh1t for a bunch of vulnerable people.
As an employer and business owner, what would you focus on of if you had an employee that wasted money and did a worse job, but kept pointing out he was as equally punctual as other employees. |
I'm not sure I can be any clearer inasmuch as I think the boat is a daft idea
That isn't my argument. | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:43 - Aug 10 with 2514 views | eireblue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:39 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
I'm not sure I can be any clearer inasmuch as I think the boat is a daft idea
That isn't my argument. |
I was answering your question, “What's wrong with the boat?” | | | |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:44 - Aug 10 with 2513 views | itfcjoe |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:20 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah, that also doesn't answer the question.
I've already said that the system is screwed, I've also said that the boat is ridiculous because at a capacity of 500 it isn't worth the paperwork to do it.
I just want to know what's wrong with living on it.
I know some loons wake up in the morning with a hard on trying to think of things to moan about but putting genuine refugees who were in fear of their life into serviceable accommodation with food and water shouldn't be one of them. |
I guess the problem is they've doubled up the levels of accomodation in the boat, and when the numbers in Manston processing camp got well over the recommended amount there was outbreaks of diptheria and the like.
For me the issue is, when not looking at the ludicrous financials, is that the asylum system is so broken they could and likely will be on these boats for months and months.
Personally, don't think living conditions on boats will be that bad, but as things stand it's a floating prison with no idea how long your sentence is - if told you will be there for 6 weeks at which point your claim was processed then think it's a different ball game and much more palatable | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:52 - Aug 10 with 2490 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:43 - Aug 10 by eireblue |
I was answering your question, “What's wrong with the boat?” |
But the protests are the fact it's a boat, the protests aren't that the system is broken.
The lilly livered big girls blouses are complaining about the living conditions but I think the living conditions are perfectly fine - in my opinion.
I would also say that "in my opinion" if you are a previously persecuted genuine asylum seeker you would be more than happy with it. It could also be argued that if you were not a genuine asylum seeker, let's say you were an economic chancer, you might get in a huff.
Having a sense of reality does not make you Hitler. | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:59 - Aug 10 with 2452 views | Blueschev |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:52 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
But the protests are the fact it's a boat, the protests aren't that the system is broken.
The lilly livered big girls blouses are complaining about the living conditions but I think the living conditions are perfectly fine - in my opinion.
I would also say that "in my opinion" if you are a previously persecuted genuine asylum seeker you would be more than happy with it. It could also be argued that if you were not a genuine asylum seeker, let's say you were an economic chancer, you might get in a huff.
Having a sense of reality does not make you Hitler. |
If you were an "economic chancer" wouldn't you be more likely to keep your mouth shut and hope to sneak through the system? |  | | |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 13:05 - Aug 10 with 2430 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:59 - Aug 10 by Blueschev |
If you were an "economic chancer" wouldn't you be more likely to keep your mouth shut and hope to sneak through the system? |
Dunno, I'm not "Johnny on the spot"
Who knows what the word on the street is, maybe they have already been tapped up by Lawyers are Us. | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 14:05 - Aug 10 with 2345 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:52 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
But the protests are the fact it's a boat, the protests aren't that the system is broken.
The lilly livered big girls blouses are complaining about the living conditions but I think the living conditions are perfectly fine - in my opinion.
I would also say that "in my opinion" if you are a previously persecuted genuine asylum seeker you would be more than happy with it. It could also be argued that if you were not a genuine asylum seeker, let's say you were an economic chancer, you might get in a huff.
Having a sense of reality does not make you Hitler. |
The potential length of stay cannot be separated from the quality of the accommodation though, in particular when that length of stay is indeterminable.
If we assume that fire safety concerns have been negated by the award of a certificate and we also assume that the doubling of capacity sounds worse than it is (certainly at the moment I think there are only about 50 people resident), in and of itself the barge may well compare favourably to living in hiding or in a refugee camp but with initial asylum decisions taking 2-3 years how acceptable an alternative is it really?
Some people, occupants among them, have compared the accommodation to a prison or the 6x6 rooms they hid in from ISIS. How long before even those migrants currently declaring it to be "OK" or "normal" share that view? |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 14:30 - Aug 10 with 2317 views | BlueBadger |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:20 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah, that also doesn't answer the question.
I've already said that the system is screwed, I've also said that the boat is ridiculous because at a capacity of 500 it isn't worth the paperwork to do it.
I just want to know what's wrong with living on it.
I know some loons wake up in the morning with a hard on trying to think of things to moan about but putting genuine refugees who were in fear of their life into serviceable accommodation with food and water shouldn't be one of them. |
Because it's over capacity and the fire brigades union have stated that it's massively unsafe. |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 15:01 - Aug 10 with 2268 views | noggin |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 11:27 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
That isn't really addressing the question.
Fire - I have heard something about this but if it was unsafe it wouldn't have got a ticket.
The inefficiency of the home office to process the asylum applications is beyond ridiculous, most sane people accept this.
Also, it is my opinion that we should open up multiple safe legal routes for asylum seekers for anyone from any nation to come here and we should give preference to women, children and families.
But that is another matter.
What's wrong with the boat? |
Grenfell 'got a ticket' and was also, largely, housing brown immigrants. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 15:02]
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 15:22 - Aug 10 with 2243 views | eireblue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:52 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
But the protests are the fact it's a boat, the protests aren't that the system is broken.
The lilly livered big girls blouses are complaining about the living conditions but I think the living conditions are perfectly fine - in my opinion.
I would also say that "in my opinion" if you are a previously persecuted genuine asylum seeker you would be more than happy with it. It could also be argued that if you were not a genuine asylum seeker, let's say you were an economic chancer, you might get in a huff.
Having a sense of reality does not make you Hitler. |
Why is the use of a barge being cited as a way of reducing the pull factor then?
Isn’t the whole point to provide accommodation that is not particularly nice?
That is a stated government aim, to reduce the pull factor.
When that doesn’t work, what will be acceptable then?
Since, as the government has tried to get more hostile, more migrants are arriving.
Sure Kellogg’s and a bunk bed is better than avoiding being tortured by the Taliban say.
But is that how we measure how we treat humans now, we are better than an oppressive dictatorship that doesn’t like LGBTQ people or even women, but not so good that you want to make the effort to get here.
Who has accused anyone of being Hitler?
Maybe the people protesting the barge, are protesting about being on a slippery slope. | | | |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 15:53 - Aug 10 with 2200 views | jayessess |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:52 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
But the protests are the fact it's a boat, the protests aren't that the system is broken.
The lilly livered big girls blouses are complaining about the living conditions but I think the living conditions are perfectly fine - in my opinion.
I would also say that "in my opinion" if you are a previously persecuted genuine asylum seeker you would be more than happy with it. It could also be argued that if you were not a genuine asylum seeker, let's say you were an economic chancer, you might get in a huff.
Having a sense of reality does not make you Hitler. |
Not sure what asylum claim plausibility has to do with anything. This is accommodation provided by the British state to a group of people made entirely dependent on the state as a matter of government policy. It needs to be safe, dignified accommodation for long term stays, it's not adequate to say "well, be grateful it's better than where you came from, eh?" [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 16:47]
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 19:50 - Aug 10 with 2093 views | DJR |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:20 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
Yeah, that also doesn't answer the question.
I've already said that the system is screwed, I've also said that the boat is ridiculous because at a capacity of 500 it isn't worth the paperwork to do it.
I just want to know what's wrong with living on it.
I know some loons wake up in the morning with a hard on trying to think of things to moan about but putting genuine refugees who were in fear of their life into serviceable accommodation with food and water shouldn't be one of them. |
I don't necessarily have issues with the barge as accommodation (assuming it is safe). It is certainly better than the marquees that Braverman has apparently purchased.
As it is, the use of a barge is largely being done for effect, but in my view it is equally, if not more, a symbol of Government failure on this issue, given its much higher profile than the hotels which are used. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 19:51]
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 19:54 - Aug 10 with 2081 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 12:02 - Aug 10 by Herbivore |
What's wrong with the boat aside from it being more than double its intended capacity and being labelled a death trap? |
Only by the fire brigade though, and they sound suspiciously like ‘experts’ |  |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 19:59 - Aug 10 with 2061 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 19:50 - Aug 10 by DJR |
I don't necessarily have issues with the barge as accommodation (assuming it is safe). It is certainly better than the marquees that Braverman has apparently purchased.
As it is, the use of a barge is largely being done for effect, but in my view it is equally, if not more, a symbol of Government failure on this issue, given its much higher profile than the hotels which are used. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 19:51]
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It’s all performative theatre. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if, like most things promoted by this government, their vision is never fulfilled and it never gets anywhere near capacity. But it serves a purpose as a distraction from all the problems of their making. | |
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 20:27 - Aug 10 with 2035 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 19:50 - Aug 10 by DJR |
I don't necessarily have issues with the barge as accommodation (assuming it is safe). It is certainly better than the marquees that Braverman has apparently purchased.
As it is, the use of a barge is largely being done for effect, but in my view it is equally, if not more, a symbol of Government failure on this issue, given its much higher profile than the hotels which are used. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 19:51]
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I've been a busy bunny so I have only just seen the replies - and I can't be arsed to reply to them all.
Yes I actually agree, to me the barge made no sense as in effect it holds a day of small boats, quite frankly it's ridiculous.
Same with Rwanda, I'm not entirely against shoving people there, to be honest I wouldn't mind going there for a bit of R & R myself. The issue is the ridiculously small numbers the scheme can accommodate. It's not worth the effort.
The boat and Rwanda are political posturing to the foaming mouthed red wall and the South East blue rinsed
My annoyance is with the people who have so little going on in their life that they feel the need to protest that it isn't adequate accommodation. I mean, where is this all going to end?
I take on the comments about fire but no one raises concern when I go from Harwich to The Hook.
Lets face it, if you were destitute you couldn't afford to pay a people smuggler and if you were in danger of your life that floating home would be a Godsend
We are paying France a fortune to stop the boats but every boat that leaves France is a blessing to them, it's a crazy situation.
The Home Office are useless and even when they try and deport someone a £Lawyer£ will get in the way.
Now I know you and others will think I am insane but I tend to think outside the box - and I get things done!
I would look at getting a worldwide fund to purchase some unused land, maybe some corner of Africa or the like, and build a new country for all refugees. A sort of Israel without the roof knocking bombs. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 20:30]
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| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 20:40 - Aug 10 with 1975 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Migrant Breakfast Benefits on 20:27 - Aug 10 by Lord_Lucan |
I've been a busy bunny so I have only just seen the replies - and I can't be arsed to reply to them all.
Yes I actually agree, to me the barge made no sense as in effect it holds a day of small boats, quite frankly it's ridiculous.
Same with Rwanda, I'm not entirely against shoving people there, to be honest I wouldn't mind going there for a bit of R & R myself. The issue is the ridiculously small numbers the scheme can accommodate. It's not worth the effort.
The boat and Rwanda are political posturing to the foaming mouthed red wall and the South East blue rinsed
My annoyance is with the people who have so little going on in their life that they feel the need to protest that it isn't adequate accommodation. I mean, where is this all going to end?
I take on the comments about fire but no one raises concern when I go from Harwich to The Hook.
Lets face it, if you were destitute you couldn't afford to pay a people smuggler and if you were in danger of your life that floating home would be a Godsend
We are paying France a fortune to stop the boats but every boat that leaves France is a blessing to them, it's a crazy situation.
The Home Office are useless and even when they try and deport someone a £Lawyer£ will get in the way.
Now I know you and others will think I am insane but I tend to think outside the box - and I get things done!
I would look at getting a worldwide fund to purchase some unused land, maybe some corner of Africa or the like, and build a new country for all refugees. A sort of Israel without the roof knocking bombs. [Post edited 10 Aug 2023 20:30]
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Madagascar perhaps? | |
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