| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77819 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:28 - Dec 3 with 1695 views | NewcyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:22 - Dec 3 by SoCalTownFan |
Ive been called
-thicko
-bigot
-Abhorrent
just for challenging the minority narrative and pointing out the special treatment angrily demanded.
I don't think that's very "tolerant" and "inclusive". It's name calling and personal abuse I consider it rather disrespectful.
That's how you lose the argument.
I notice no one has addressed my original point. Because you can't, Because the stance that Morsy must wear the ribbon or he is a bad person is an illogical one that demands special treatment for one group of people, at the expense of other groups beliefs. Not tolerant and not inclusive, as we have seen in this small snapshot. |
How is asking for equality akin to asking for special treatment? |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:29 - Dec 3 with 1689 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:26 - Dec 3 by Mullet |
Why have you capitalised hijab? It just means scarf.
Islamic dress is cultural not religious hence why it varies so much. And if you mean a thobe, those vary massively too for men, including colour.
The compulsion to cover one’s head or even dress islamically comes from an interpretation of modesty. The garments aren’t prescribed.
What you’re asking people to do is dress like a stereotype at best. Besides that, I’ve not a clue what point you think you’re making. |
Ahem, point of order. It’s SCARF  |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:38 - Dec 3 with 1641 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:39 - Dec 3 by SoCalTownFan |
to all the LGBTQ community who have a problem with Morsy refusing to wear the ribbon
If, to show your tolerance and create an atmosphere of inclusivity you were hearby forced to wear a HIJAB or one of those white smock things the muslim lads wear on Fridays (with the hat thing) to the next home game would that be OK with you?
If you refused, you would lose your season ticket because bigot/islamiphobic etc. |
See lowhouse, if the thread and discussion had ended earlier when you said, we would all have missed out and wouldn't have been treated to this gem from such a deep thinker and not-at-all bigoted tosser. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:54 - Dec 3 with 1493 views | Cafe_Newman |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:26 - Dec 3 by Mullet |
Why have you capitalised hijab? It just means scarf.
Islamic dress is cultural not religious hence why it varies so much. And if you mean a thobe, those vary massively too for men, including colour.
The compulsion to cover one’s head or even dress islamically comes from an interpretation of modesty. The garments aren’t prescribed.
What you’re asking people to do is dress like a stereotype at best. Besides that, I’ve not a clue what point you think you’re making. |
"Islamic dress is cultural not religious"
Eh? Islam is a religion. So what you call Islamic dress must be religious by definition. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:24 - Dec 3 with 1428 views | Mullet |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:54 - Dec 3 by Cafe_Newman |
"Islamic dress is cultural not religious"
Eh? Islam is a religion. So what you call Islamic dress must be religious by definition. |
No, it varies by culture. In the same way Islam varies by culture like every other religion. That’s why halal food in Malaysia will be wildly different to Mumbai, Mogadishu and Mecca.
A quick google of Islamic fashion and dress around the world will easily demonstrate the point. How my Somali mates adhere to Islamic rules and expectations is very different to those from Pakistan and Yemen etc.
Just look up Christian head coverings around the world and you’ll see that not only is a hijab not unique to Islam, but it’s also an aspect of practice which is down to individual choice and culture. All based on several factors. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:27 - Dec 3 with 1407 views | ArmaghBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:49 - Dec 3 by NederlandseBlue |
Which belief do you applaud him standing up for? Has he said? |
His faith does not approve of gay people. If that’s what he respects and follows, let him do that. If people want to wear it, let them wear it too. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:51 - Dec 3 with 1358 views | NederlandseBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:27 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
His faith does not approve of gay people. If that’s what he respects and follows, let him do that. If people want to wear it, let them wear it too. |
We don't know if that is his reason but let's go with your supposition even though there are many gay and gay-accepting Muslims... his faith means he does not 'approve' of gay people...
That would mean the person chosen to be captain of our football club, the figurehead and leader for the team, looked up to by youth team players and young supporters, disapproves of between 3-20% of the world's population (studies suggest about 80% consider themselves fully heterosexual; 3% openly self-identify as fully homosexual). This is a group that is already 4x more likely to be the victim of violence and 2x more likely to commit suicide (US data). Are you ok with having someone in such an important role with such views?
If you change that to a different characteristic that someone cannot change about themselves, such as skin colour or where they were born, would you still be ok with it? |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:03 - Dec 3 with 1314 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:27 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
His faith does not approve of gay people. If that’s what he respects and follows, let him do that. If people want to wear it, let them wear it too. |
Why is religious bigotry acceptable? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:06 - Dec 3 with 1304 views | ArmaghBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:03 - Dec 3 by pointofblue |
Why is religious bigotry acceptable? |
I just think they should keep this sort of stuff out of sports personally. They have a whole month dedicated to celebrating who they are. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 23:06]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:09 - Dec 3 with 1279 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:06 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
I just think they should keep this sort of stuff out of sports personally. They have a whole month dedicated to celebrating who they are. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 23:06]
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Such distain and disrespect in your tone and words. Parts of this thread and you personally highlight which we need to keep having this conversation. I’m amazed at the lurkers we have here. As positive as some comments have been, I feel thoroughly depressed reading the mental gymnastics people are going through to justify their viewpoints. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:13 - Dec 3 with 1242 views | ArmaghBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:09 - Dec 3 by Swailsey |
Such distain and disrespect in your tone and words. Parts of this thread and you personally highlight which we need to keep having this conversation. I’m amazed at the lurkers we have here. As positive as some comments have been, I feel thoroughly depressed reading the mental gymnastics people are going through to justify their viewpoints. |
I couldn’t care less who/what people fall in love with or what parts people have added/removed.
We just don’t need it forced down our throats every time we go out or turn the TV on. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:14 - Dec 3 with 1236 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:06 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
I just think they should keep this sort of stuff out of sports personally. They have a whole month dedicated to celebrating who they are. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 23:06]
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And also get abused, attacked, and even killed for it too. And not just over a month. As said, if anything, this just shows why discussions are needed. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:15 - Dec 3 with 1230 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:13 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
I couldn’t care less who/what people fall in love with or what parts people have added/removed.
We just don’t need it forced down our throats every time we go out or turn the TV on. |
Why does it bother you? | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:16 - Dec 3 with 1224 views | bluelagos |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:39 - Dec 3 by SoCalTownFan |
to all the LGBTQ community who have a problem with Morsy refusing to wear the ribbon
If, to show your tolerance and create an atmosphere of inclusivity you were hearby forced to wear a HIJAB or one of those white smock things the muslim lads wear on Fridays (with the hat thing) to the next home game would that be OK with you?
If you refused, you would lose your season ticket because bigot/islamiphobic etc. |
I thought Elephant's post on the assisted dieing debate was the most stupid I'd seen in a long time, but am thinking this one could be worse.
Seriously, in what world is that an appropriate question for gay town fans, on a thread where some fans are talking about not feeling welcome at Portman Rd? |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:16 - Dec 3 with 1220 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:13 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
I couldn’t care less who/what people fall in love with or what parts people have added/removed.
We just don’t need it forced down our throats every time we go out or turn the TV on. |
So television shows shouldn't promote heterosexual relationships either? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:18 - Dec 3 with 1205 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:16 - Dec 3 by bluelagos |
I thought Elephant's post on the assisted dieing debate was the most stupid I'd seen in a long time, but am thinking this one could be worse.
Seriously, in what world is that an appropriate question for gay town fans, on a thread where some fans are talking about not feeling welcome at Portman Rd? |
Honestly mate. There are some dangerous people out there if this thread is anything to go by. It’s 20 and fking ‘24. | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:24 - Dec 3 with 1190 views | ArmaghBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:15 - Dec 3 by Swailsey |
Why does it bother you? |
Because it is getting rather boring.
Even a couple of gay friends at work are getting sick, tired, and embarrassed of it all.
I just don’t see why someone’s sexual feelings/preferences need to be broadcasted constantly to the world. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:26 - Dec 3 with 1177 views | bluelagos |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:18 - Dec 3 by Swailsey |
Honestly mate. There are some dangerous people out there if this thread is anything to go by. It’s 20 and fking ‘24. |
Am sat here shaking my head tbh. I promised I wouldn't get dragged into this thread (as I don't have much original or useful to add) but I finally cracked!
2024 is the year but it does feel like we are still in the 70s sometimes. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:28 - Dec 3 with 1172 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:24 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
Because it is getting rather boring.
Even a couple of gay friends at work are getting sick, tired, and embarrassed of it all.
I just don’t see why someone’s sexual feelings/preferences need to be broadcasted constantly to the world. |
But what specifically about it bothers you? Are you frustrated by seeing other things regularly, like trees, or women’s rights? | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:29 - Dec 3 with 1163 views | NederlandseBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:24 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
Because it is getting rather boring.
Even a couple of gay friends at work are getting sick, tired, and embarrassed of it all.
I just don’t see why someone’s sexual feelings/preferences need to be broadcasted constantly to the world. |
So I ask again, if you change that to a different characteristic that someone cannot change about themselves, such as skin colour or where they were born, would you still be ok with it? | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:30 - Dec 3 with 1156 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:23 - Dec 3 by NederlandseBlue |
"the second issue is whether the gesture of wearing an armband or bootlace really affects things in the real world to the extent that someone should be compelled to do so, or should be condemned and attacked if they choose not to. even after 20 pages i don't believe that someone should be compelled to go along with something if they have reservations and the scheme shouldn't put individuals in that invidious position."
That's a few different points... Firstly, does such a gesture affect anything? A few people on this thread for whom this topic is directly relevant say it does makes a difference to them. They're better placed than most to answer. There is also a good number of sportspeople who later came out gay who say they wish there had been a more inclusive environment while still playing. So, yes, probably it does make a difference.
Then there is the point about compelling someone to do something. He has not been compelled - he chose not to and still captained the team.
And then there is speculation about his reasoning. We do not know what his 'reservations' are. Perhaps he doesn't like the organisation behind the specific initiative but is still supportive of people who are LGBT+. Perhaps he's worried about the repercussions for his family (something that still scares my friend). Perhaps he doesn't like certain colours. Perhaps he believes it's a lifestyle choice (!) that he disapproves of. Perhaps he's just bigoted. Unless he's clear why, people will assume the worst.
Real talent (in all things, not just football) is scarce, so why would any leader not want the best people, performing the best that they can? If you cannot put personal opinions aside for the good of the team, then you should not be a leader. |
"And then there is speculation about his reasoning. We do not know what his 'reservations' are ... Perhaps he's worried about the repercussions for his family (something that still scares my friend)".
That's pretty key imho, & why I don't join in the codemnation of him by some. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:32 - Dec 3 with 1143 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:30 - Dec 3 by Ryorry |
"And then there is speculation about his reasoning. We do not know what his 'reservations' are ... Perhaps he's worried about the repercussions for his family (something that still scares my friend)".
That's pretty key imho, & why I don't join in the codemnation of him by some. |
He would help himself by saying something rather than allowing the club to issue a statement on his behalf specifically stating "religious beliefs". | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:36 - Dec 3 with 1102 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:32 - Dec 3 by pointofblue |
He would help himself by saying something rather than allowing the club to issue a statement on his behalf specifically stating "religious beliefs". |
Thought the same - but of course that might mean revealing the very thing behind the scenes, in the terms of family etc., that he (possibly) feels he has to keep private. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 23:37]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:40 - Dec 3 with 1087 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:36 - Dec 3 by Ryorry |
Thought the same - but of course that might mean revealing the very thing behind the scenes, in the terms of family etc., that he (possibly) feels he has to keep private. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 23:37]
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It's possible, in hindsight, that the club have been too specific. If they had said Morsy has elected not to wear the armband for personal reasons then it would have come across slightly better? I can't remember how they presented it over the past couple of years. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:40 - Dec 3 with 1083 views | gringoblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:13 - Dec 3 by ArmaghBlue |
I couldn’t care less who/what people fall in love with or what parts people have added/removed.
We just don’t need it forced down our throats every time we go out or turn the TV on. |
Give in mate, you would love it down your throat. |  | | |
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