| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 81890 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:54 - Dec 4 with 1377 views | Benters |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 07:01 - Dec 4 by Swailsey |
Are you saying those in the community who have been impacted, upset, been made to feel unwelcome and who have shared their story bravely are irrational? |
It’s up to him if he wears it or not,like it’s up to the players if they take the knee or not,wear the poppy etc.
I can’t see why people are getting their knickers in a twist over it though. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:57 - Dec 4 with 1358 views | Benters |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:56 - Dec 4 by Jimmy86 |
But what about tolerance to Morsy and his religious beliefs then?! Or does that not count?
So we need to be tolerant and inclusive of the LGBTQ+ community, but not tolerant and inclusive of Morsy and his reasoning behind why he's chosen not to take part in the initiative, due to his religious beliefs as a practising Muslim?
Tolerance and inclusion should apply to ALL and EVERYONE! simple as that... |
This. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:57 - Dec 4 with 1356 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:51 - Dec 4 by itfcjoe |
Been confirmed that Man U were due to wear jackets for walk out in support on Sunday but one player refused to so they didn’t.
Feels like this is coming to a bit of a head, the PL is having a big problem and needs to work out how to handle this next season when there are more Muslim and Evangelical Christians playing - but feels like the country has gone backwards in minority rights over last few years, and that the gay marriage vote was a high point in some ways…..new Govt should help turn the tanker around in some ways but can’t see it’s going to be quickly. |
make it something all players can do and let them opt in. i didn't see any player last night wearing the laces? was that not being encouraged given that it's called the 'rainbow laces' campaign. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:59 - Dec 4 with 1333 views | eireblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:30 - Dec 4 by PassionNotAnger |
Let's just simplify this (again)
Morsy is entirely free to believe what he wants as an individual and player (and as long as he doesn't break any laws obviously)
The Captains role however is representing the club as its leadership/figurehead and therefore "SHOULD" be able to support "EVERYONE" If Morsy doesn't feel able to support/represent "EVERYONE" then he isn't the right person.
I've not seen anybody being dismissive of his religion just expressing that if it prohibits him from fulfilling ALL of his captains duties then it would probably better for him to step down from it.
This isn't about religion specifically (many other Muslims have supported the rainbow) it's about leadership and how Morsy is (seemingly) choosing to apply his beliefs. |
Chatting to some religious types. Who knew I supported Ipswich and had heard something on the radio. Their reaction was interesting.
1. You don’t get to pick and choose which bits and when you get to adhere to beliefs. Its supposed to be an all or nothing thing.
2. Religious types accept following a religion sometimes means consequences or personal sacrifice.
As someone mentioned about that Chariots of Fire chap, he enjoyed running, but took a bit of personal hit, because he wanted to follow his religious belief.
Seems to me that Sam, could have decided to take a personal view based on his belief and handed over the captaincy to someone that could represent the club.
From the outside in, it seems Sam has chosen certain parts of Islam to follow, and doesn’t want to relinquish the captaincy. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:59 - Dec 4 with 1330 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:54 - Dec 4 by Benters |
It’s up to him if he wears it or not,like it’s up to the players if they take the knee or not,wear the poppy etc.
I can’t see why people are getting their knickers in a twist over it though. |
Such expected compassion. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:01 - Dec 4 with 1324 views | Benters |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:59 - Dec 4 by Swailsey |
Such expected compassion. |
I don’t know what you want me to say tbh ? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:01 - Dec 4 with 1321 views | bluelagos |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:54 - Dec 4 by Benters |
It’s up to him if he wears it or not,like it’s up to the players if they take the knee or not,wear the poppy etc.
I can’t see why people are getting their knickers in a twist over it though. |
Maybe it's because they have spent their lives dealing homophobic people who are at best, dismissive and rude about who they are, and at worst aggressive and violent towards them.
I think there's something to be said for not condemning people unless you have walked in their shoes. I can't imagine how it would be to be scared to admit your sexuality when it makes you different and subject to all kinds of prejudice.
Maybe try and think how it would be for them seeing their club captain refuse to stand in solidarity with them, rather than label them as "getting their knickers in a twist" ? |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:04 - Dec 4 with 1298 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:01 - Dec 4 by bluelagos |
Maybe it's because they have spent their lives dealing homophobic people who are at best, dismissive and rude about who they are, and at worst aggressive and violent towards them.
I think there's something to be said for not condemning people unless you have walked in their shoes. I can't imagine how it would be to be scared to admit your sexuality when it makes you different and subject to all kinds of prejudice.
Maybe try and think how it would be for them seeing their club captain refuse to stand in solidarity with them, rather than label them as "getting their knickers in a twist" ? |
THIS. | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:09 - Dec 4 with 1263 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:42 - Dec 4 by lowhouseblue |
intolerant beliefs don't. intolerant actions might very well. you would need to show that someone had damaged someone's else's rights (to private and family life or not to be discriminated against) in some practical way. if because of your beliefs you declined to take part in some publicity campaign i can't see that you have meaningfully inflicted harm on anyone - people may well be offended by your decision but there is no right not to be offended. if because of your beliefs you didn't employ someone the conflict with that person's rights is very obvious and straightforward. |
Intolerant beliefs feed intolerant actions. They support them and they help them to fester and grow. Through silence it damages someone else's rights by encouraging others who are more willing to put beliefs and words into actions. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:13 - Dec 4 with 1234 views | Jimmy86 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:16 - Dec 4 by FrimleyBlue |
Oh Jimmy
No one is discriminating against Morsy's religion, the issue is simply that he seemingly picks and chooses which part of the religion he's following.
Go back further in the thread and we discuss the betting endorsement, that pretty much explains it. |
What betting endorsements are you talking about?! We don't have any betting sponsorship on our kits.. and haven't ever had, whilst Morsy has been at the club.. that's the whole point of Sheeran sponsoring the club, as he didn't want that plastered over the shirts | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:13 - Dec 4 with 1232 views | redrickstuhaart |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:25 - Dec 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Is he really?
I took it as Jesus loving everybody equally. Doesn't it say Jesus love you?
(Ps....yes I know he doesn’t but for the sake of argument) |
Why add it to a rainbow armband ? Come on.... | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:16 - Dec 4 with 1204 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:13 - Dec 4 by Jimmy86 |
What betting endorsements are you talking about?! We don't have any betting sponsorship on our kits.. and haven't ever had, whilst Morsy has been at the club.. that's the whole point of Sheeran sponsoring the club, as he didn't want that plastered over the shirts |
erm you do realise Morsy was a footballer before he joined ipswich... |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:19 - Dec 4 with 1189 views | Jimmy86 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:16 - Dec 4 by FrimleyBlue |
erm you do realise Morsy was a footballer before he joined ipswich... |
Don't be so daft!! Of course I know he was a footballer before he joined Ipswich, what's your point??? You're having a pop at me for no reason...
I often feel for you and the stick you get.. don't then have a go at me for sod all.. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:22 - Dec 4 with 1175 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:19 - Dec 4 by Jimmy86 |
Don't be so daft!! Of course I know he was a footballer before he joined Ipswich, what's your point??? You're having a pop at me for no reason...
I often feel for you and the stick you get.. don't then have a go at me for sod all.. |
Middlesbrough's shirt sponsor was a betting company whilst he was there. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:22 - Dec 4 with 1168 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:19 - Dec 4 by Jimmy86 |
Don't be so daft!! Of course I know he was a footballer before he joined Ipswich, what's your point??? You're having a pop at me for no reason...
I often feel for you and the stick you get.. don't then have a go at me for sod all.. |
Not having a pop, just that I felt it was obvious I was referring to his previous clubs when we know he wasn't here when we had magical vegas as a sponsor.
He played for many seasons for previous clubs with a great big betting sponsor on his kit.
To save you going back through the threads, the point was, if he was so set against it due to his religious beliefs, then he has a choice to either retire or play football at non league level rather than public ally supporting a betting sponsor. And the biggest point being, he could do that every week, for many seasons, but couldn't put an armband on for 90 minutes. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:24 - Dec 4 with 1165 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:09 - Dec 4 by pointofblue |
Intolerant beliefs feed intolerant actions. They support them and they help them to fester and grow. Through silence it damages someone else's rights by encouraging others who are more willing to put beliefs and words into actions. |
deal with the actions. beliefs rightly have a very high level of protection - if you start clamping down on what is in people's heads, or nothing more than people stating what is in their heads, you are on the route to 1984esque oppression. imagined potential harms, as opposed to proven harms, is just a way of imposing your subjective views on others and silencing stuff that you disagree with. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:27 - Dec 4 with 1148 views | Jimmy86 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:22 - Dec 4 by FrimleyBlue |
Not having a pop, just that I felt it was obvious I was referring to his previous clubs when we know he wasn't here when we had magical vegas as a sponsor.
He played for many seasons for previous clubs with a great big betting sponsor on his kit.
To save you going back through the threads, the point was, if he was so set against it due to his religious beliefs, then he has a choice to either retire or play football at non league level rather than public ally supporting a betting sponsor. And the biggest point being, he could do that every week, for many seasons, but couldn't put an armband on for 90 minutes. |
Ahh yea, fair enough! Couldn't remember who Boro's sponsor was at the time... I see that being selective in what he chooses to believe as part of his religion could open up a can of worms regarding intolerance of that faith.. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:27 - Dec 4 with 1144 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:24 - Dec 4 by lowhouseblue |
deal with the actions. beliefs rightly have a very high level of protection - if you start clamping down on what is in people's heads, or nothing more than people stating what is in their heads, you are on the route to 1984esque oppression. imagined potential harms, as opposed to proven harms, is just a way of imposing your subjective views on others and silencing stuff that you disagree with. |
To make it clear, you feel it's right that people can hold beliefs which are detrimental to others - whether that be racism, sexism, homophobia etc.? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:29 - Dec 4 with 1148 views | tractorboy7777 |
As a gay man, I have sat back and watch the differing views people have. There is no doubt that homophobia is much lower now than before my time due to many events to create understanding of homosexuality.
There is continuing events to create acceptance for additional LGBT+ communities which have taken over the LGBT fight for acceptance and become equal in society. This is what I feel is causing the problem and some of it I can see why it is questionable and people are becoming ‘bored’ of it.
The intended support over the weekend was to show the younger generations at school that being gay isn’t wrong and they can be part of football. I am younger than 30 and this wasn’t seen at school so I felt wrong, confused and alone who shouldn’t be part of football. Because of this, when I look back at my teens, it isn’t great.
There is still no current openly gay footballers at the top level which would be why football is still involved in these campaigns.
I feel it is a shame that Morsy didn’t get involved with the campaign, being that he is the captain of the club. He should show support for inclusion for everyone. If his religion does not see that, he isn’t fit to be captain. Whose to say one of his teammates are gay and feel the need to hide it.
I don’t want to get involved in the religion debate, as religion is his choice. However, I will say that being gay isn’t a choice or preference and homophobia can be equalled to racism or sexism. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:58 - Dec 4 with 991 views | Vegtablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:24 - Dec 4 by lowhouseblue |
deal with the actions. beliefs rightly have a very high level of protection - if you start clamping down on what is in people's heads, or nothing more than people stating what is in their heads, you are on the route to 1984esque oppression. imagined potential harms, as opposed to proven harms, is just a way of imposing your subjective views on others and silencing stuff that you disagree with. |
You must believe the same is true for racism and misogyny - people should have a right to hold these thoughts in their heads, or to do nothing more than state these thoughts from their heads. If either is built into one's faith, it should be untouchable. To think anything else would be hypocrisy of the highest order. Clamp down on that and you're on a route to 1984esque oppression. If you believe those are objectively wrong but inclusivity here is a subjective view, well you have some soul-searching to do in my opinion. I'd be interested to read your thoughts on why my perspective is wrong or unfair, and why we should separate three common discriminatory beliefs when it comes to tolerance and protection. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:01 - Dec 4 with 984 views | redrickstuhaart |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:58 - Dec 4 by Vegtablue |
You must believe the same is true for racism and misogyny - people should have a right to hold these thoughts in their heads, or to do nothing more than state these thoughts from their heads. If either is built into one's faith, it should be untouchable. To think anything else would be hypocrisy of the highest order. Clamp down on that and you're on a route to 1984esque oppression. If you believe those are objectively wrong but inclusivity here is a subjective view, well you have some soul-searching to do in my opinion. I'd be interested to read your thoughts on why my perspective is wrong or unfair, and why we should separate three common discriminatory beliefs when it comes to tolerance and protection. |
If a belief is built into faith it should be untouchable? Nonsensical. Believe what you like but if a belief is harmful, it cannot be untouchable.
See the KKK for instance.... Or indeed al quaeda. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:06 - Dec 4 with 956 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:27 - Dec 4 by pointofblue |
To make it clear, you feel it's right that people can hold beliefs which are detrimental to others - whether that be racism, sexism, homophobia etc.? |
they can indeed hold protected views. they can't express them in a form that harms others and they can't act on them in a way that harms others. not only do i feel that, it's what the european convention on human rights says. if you don't accept that you should join farage et al and push for the uk to exit the european convention. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:09 - Dec 4 with 941 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:54 - Dec 4 by Benters |
It’s up to him if he wears it or not,like it’s up to the players if they take the knee or not,wear the poppy etc.
I can’t see why people are getting their knickers in a twist over it though. |
Because we want everyone to feel welcome at FPR. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:12 - Dec 4 with 928 views | Churchman |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:51 - Dec 4 by itfcjoe |
Been confirmed that Man U were due to wear jackets for walk out in support on Sunday but one player refused to so they didn’t.
Feels like this is coming to a bit of a head, the PL is having a big problem and needs to work out how to handle this next season when there are more Muslim and Evangelical Christians playing - but feels like the country has gone backwards in minority rights over last few years, and that the gay marriage vote was a high point in some ways…..new Govt should help turn the tanker around in some ways but can’t see it’s going to be quickly. |
I’m not sure I agree with that. I think progress is being made all the time, not least with debates like this. Same with ‘minority rights’ - there is just more focus on issues like this and rightly so in my view.
If you take the world back just a few generations, what was normal then is now totally unacceptable. Rightly. Just a couple of examples include single mothers ostracised and some having their children taken away and the utterly appalling treatment of a truly great man in Alan Turing whose work saved tens of thousands of allied lives in WW2. Of course, in Germany and the conquered territories persecution took on levels above and beyond - and in some countries still does.
Go back to Victorian times and people were ‘lucky’ to wind up in an Asylum and be laughed at on an Sunday and people were thrown out of countries wholesale (e.g. Huguenots). This is a long winded way of saying I believe in this country, progress is being made even if there is a long way to go. [Post edited 4 Dec 2024 13:30]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:15 - Dec 4 with 917 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:58 - Dec 4 by Vegtablue |
You must believe the same is true for racism and misogyny - people should have a right to hold these thoughts in their heads, or to do nothing more than state these thoughts from their heads. If either is built into one's faith, it should be untouchable. To think anything else would be hypocrisy of the highest order. Clamp down on that and you're on a route to 1984esque oppression. If you believe those are objectively wrong but inclusivity here is a subjective view, well you have some soul-searching to do in my opinion. I'd be interested to read your thoughts on why my perspective is wrong or unfair, and why we should separate three common discriminatory beliefs when it comes to tolerance and protection. |
absolutely people have the right to believe what they want. i'm not sure how you plan to expunge these thoughts from people's heads? electric shock therapy? chinese style re-education? torture? what people can't do is act on their thoughts or beliefs (even if they are protected beliefs such as religion) if they actively harm the human rights of others. it has to be real harm, it can't be imagined or subjective or hypothetical harm however. these are fundamental human rights, and seeking to oppress freedom of thought conscience and religion or freedom of expression would indeed put you in the path to 1984esque totalitarianism. BUT if someone acts in a way which harms the human rights of others - discrimination, harassment, inciting hatred etc etc, not only will they breach multiple laws but no refernec to their human rights will defend them. people are not free to harm the rights of others. if you really disagree with this you are rejecting the european convention on human rights which puts out there with farage et al. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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