| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment 15:12 - Feb 11 with 37939 views | Jimmy86 |
It would seem that calling a police officer stupid and white is acceptable in today's society..
Imagine the uproar if that particular slur had been used against someone of BAME origin.. think the sentence and certainly reaction to it would have been different |  | | |  |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:22 - Feb 12 with 1438 views | vapour_trail |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:12 - Feb 12 by itfcjoe |
In an attempt to get equality of opportunity for all people, straight white men are now at the bottom of the pile when there is any attempt for diversification in any work place.
That's just how it is in the corporate world now as they attempt to redress the balances of the last hundred years, and those who are currently in that demographic will suffer because of it.
Academics will show the numbers as to why but that isn't going to change the real way people feel on the ground when they are overlooked for promotions, jobs, etc to inferior candidates and I could give a dozen examples from my previous career, and friends/family with what they are doing. Some are positive discrimination with black friends, or women in the work place......but in order to try and have people positively discriminated towards, then there is the flip side as it is a zero sum game often. |
That’s an interesting one.
We monitor diversity in our recruitment and internal promotion. We’re a decent sized third sector organisation, and can come under social media fire from time to time for being lefty, woke, etc, from individuals who sound quite similar to some on this thread.
Anyway, we don’t set targets but we monitor data, and through most of the org, we see black people shortlisted less and promoted less than white people. We’ve not put a finger on exactly why that is, I don’t think we have rampant racism in our recruiting managers, but that’s the facts of the data.
So from my own experiences, I don’t fully buy your opening paragraph. |  |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:25 - Feb 12 with 1423 views | Herbivore |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:22 - Feb 12 by vapour_trail |
That’s an interesting one.
We monitor diversity in our recruitment and internal promotion. We’re a decent sized third sector organisation, and can come under social media fire from time to time for being lefty, woke, etc, from individuals who sound quite similar to some on this thread.
Anyway, we don’t set targets but we monitor data, and through most of the org, we see black people shortlisted less and promoted less than white people. We’ve not put a finger on exactly why that is, I don’t think we have rampant racism in our recruiting managers, but that’s the facts of the data.
So from my own experiences, I don’t fully buy your opening paragraph. |
It's also worth adding that positive discrimination, which Joe references, is illegal in the UK. My profession is one that is generally viewed as progressive and concerned with social justice, but people of colour are massively underrepresented in leadership roles within it, by about 50% compared to their representation in the wider workforce. So I don't really buy it either. |  |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:26 - Feb 12 with 1410 views | waveneyblue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:14 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
So people will show with evidence that what you're saying is wrong but actually what you're saying is right? That seems to be the gist of it. |
Joe has tried his best to word a response and in you wade with a sarcastic response. It's clear as day to see what Joe's getting at, but not to you.
Same old same old |  | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:28 - Feb 12 with 1397 views | jayessess |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:22 - Feb 12 by vapour_trail |
That’s an interesting one.
We monitor diversity in our recruitment and internal promotion. We’re a decent sized third sector organisation, and can come under social media fire from time to time for being lefty, woke, etc, from individuals who sound quite similar to some on this thread.
Anyway, we don’t set targets but we monitor data, and through most of the org, we see black people shortlisted less and promoted less than white people. We’ve not put a finger on exactly why that is, I don’t think we have rampant racism in our recruiting managers, but that’s the facts of the data.
So from my own experiences, I don’t fully buy your opening paragraph. |
Got to say my experience is similar.
Fair bit of griping about DEI/decolonisation agendas/everything should be about merit, but at the end of the day the statistics just don't bear out the idea that it's harder to be a straight white male and you look at the demographics at the top of the organisation they're still biased in favour of the same groups they always were. |  |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:30 - Feb 12 with 1380 views | NedPlimpton |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:12 - Feb 12 by itfcjoe |
In an attempt to get equality of opportunity for all people, straight white men are now at the bottom of the pile when there is any attempt for diversification in any work place.
That's just how it is in the corporate world now as they attempt to redress the balances of the last hundred years, and those who are currently in that demographic will suffer because of it.
Academics will show the numbers as to why but that isn't going to change the real way people feel on the ground when they are overlooked for promotions, jobs, etc to inferior candidates and I could give a dozen examples from my previous career, and friends/family with what they are doing. Some are positive discrimination with black friends, or women in the work place......but in order to try and have people positively discriminated towards, then there is the flip side as it is a zero sum game often. |
Straight white men are absolutely not at the bottom of the pile, at least according to both the gender pay gap or the ethnicity pay gap
Unless I've misunderstood? |  | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:30 - Feb 12 with 1374 views | itfcjoe |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:16 - Feb 12 by jayessess |
Thing about race/gender/sexuality is that they're different in type to class as a form of inequality.
We use class a lot to describe stuff that is about identity and culture, but at root it's economic relationships - who owns things, who works for whom, who owns property, who rents it, who wields power, who doesn't.
It's ultimately not amenable to diversification because however good your society gets at social mobility, those economic relations are still the same and someone has to be occupying the different roles. All you can do is move some people around (unless you dismantle the economic relationships entirely).
You could (hypothetically) have a capitalist society that was blind to race/gender/sexuality, that operated with no discrimination around those categories. But capitalism without class is an oxymoron. |
It's incredibly difficult - I was listening to an MP the other week [Darren Jones] who just sounded like your bog standard toff MP, silver spoon......but you look at his back story and it's growing up in poverty in a massively deprived area in Bristol, first member of family to go to university, food bank equivalent use.
But now he's a secretary to the treasury, married to a tech entrepreneur, a vegan due to their views on carbon emission in the meat industry etc and clearly no longer in any real way working class.....so how do you square that.
I've got a friend from school who grew up in a single Dad household, who with an assisted place got to school, is now doing really well in consultancy but is having to move firms because there are too many men on their management team so is no room for him to take the next step - and he has to spend lots of time leading the companies diversity team but his (former?) class is not something that is even considered. When Oxford/Cambridge take more kids from state schools - and then the BBC says it wants to diversify so has less Oxbridge graduates at what point to they cross over from the state school kid who has been positively discriminated for, to the Oxbridge grad who is negatively discriminated against?
I'm more in the equality of opportunity camp, but realise that we are so away from that and without some serious investment in the younger years it isn't going to happen than the equality of outcome camp.....but as a parent of 2 white boys who will now be middle class I worry for their future as I see kids of my parents friends in their early 20s having to head off to places like the US because they have better options |  |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:36 - Feb 12 with 1349 views | itfcjoe |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:28 - Feb 12 by jayessess |
Got to say my experience is similar.
Fair bit of griping about DEI/decolonisation agendas/everything should be about merit, but at the end of the day the statistics just don't bear out the idea that it's harder to be a straight white male and you look at the demographics at the top of the organisation they're still biased in favour of the same groups they always were. |
This is at the top of organisations though, and the only way to change this is to have a more diverse workforce at the bottom end of the organisation which is where it will hurt people coming into the industry who are straight, white and male.
If I'm the boss of a company with 200 staff, basically all white, management team basically all men and I have pressure to diversify where is the easiest place to do it? Sack existing staff to replace, or ensure going forwards you weight recruitment more heavily to help hit better diversification numbers - it's just common sense to me | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:37 - Feb 12 with 1340 views | BarcaBlue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:26 - Feb 12 by waveneyblue |
Joe has tried his best to word a response and in you wade with a sarcastic response. It's clear as day to see what Joe's getting at, but not to you.
Same old same old |
....says the person throwing out petty insults throughout the thread. |  | | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:38 - Feb 12 with 1330 views | Herbivore |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:26 - Feb 12 by waveneyblue |
Joe has tried his best to word a response and in you wade with a sarcastic response. It's clear as day to see what Joe's getting at, but not to you.
Same old same old |
Are you going to engage with the thread or just commentate on it? I don't think you're really in a position to comment on others' posts after your personal attacks on Stokie last night and this morning. | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:42 - Feb 12 with 1305 views | Herbivore |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:30 - Feb 12 by itfcjoe |
It's incredibly difficult - I was listening to an MP the other week [Darren Jones] who just sounded like your bog standard toff MP, silver spoon......but you look at his back story and it's growing up in poverty in a massively deprived area in Bristol, first member of family to go to university, food bank equivalent use.
But now he's a secretary to the treasury, married to a tech entrepreneur, a vegan due to their views on carbon emission in the meat industry etc and clearly no longer in any real way working class.....so how do you square that.
I've got a friend from school who grew up in a single Dad household, who with an assisted place got to school, is now doing really well in consultancy but is having to move firms because there are too many men on their management team so is no room for him to take the next step - and he has to spend lots of time leading the companies diversity team but his (former?) class is not something that is even considered. When Oxford/Cambridge take more kids from state schools - and then the BBC says it wants to diversify so has less Oxbridge graduates at what point to they cross over from the state school kid who has been positively discriminated for, to the Oxbridge grad who is negatively discriminated against?
I'm more in the equality of opportunity camp, but realise that we are so away from that and without some serious investment in the younger years it isn't going to happen than the equality of outcome camp.....but as a parent of 2 white boys who will now be middle class I worry for their future as I see kids of my parents friends in their early 20s having to head off to places like the US because they have better options |
Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK. My professional sector has circa 30% non-white staff but less than half that percentage in leadership roles, and lower still in the most senior leadership roles. If positive discrimination was a thing, that wouldn't be the case. | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:52 - Feb 12 with 1226 views | itfcjoe |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:42 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK. My professional sector has circa 30% non-white staff but less than half that percentage in leadership roles, and lower still in the most senior leadership roles. If positive discrimination was a thing, that wouldn't be the case. |
Positive action isn't illegal for trainee jobs though which isn't uncommon (and exactly what I've said re the bottom of the company being the easiest place to diversify), and above that if companies have set themselves visible targets for representation (which a lot do) then it will lead to positive discrimination just done unofficially by the powers that be.
If a recruiting manager has an objective to hit x% of women at a certain job level, and there are vacancies there then what are they going to do? I'm sure lots of people on this board have sat in these meetings where these decisions are made | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:53 - Feb 12 with 1211 views | waveneyblue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:38 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Are you going to engage with the thread or just commentate on it? I don't think you're really in a position to comment on others' posts after your personal attacks on Stokie last night and this morning. |
Wasn't much of an "attack" was it. Just some observations.
As i said to the OP, there's no point in commenting on this anymore.
The posters who broadly agree with his initial comments have moved on and the usuals remain to jump on any comment with their one-sided views. | | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:54 - Feb 12 with 1209 views | DJR |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 10:54 - Feb 12 by itfcjoe |
I don't disagree, but people will always comment on things when we never have the full story that the jury have whether due to their own bias, reporting, pre-existing position and I'm no different in that respect.......and it will always be possible to say the jury system isn't perfect because of high profile cases (and because nothing is or can be)
I think my main issue here is that I have to listen to so much shizzle from GB News and the like parrotted to me by people around me that in the main I disgaree with I can see which way the general mood seems to be going......and I don't want to give them open goals to score of which this feels like one.
Talk of 'white privilege' is also massively unhelpful, and comes across as sneery from people on the left because like everything in this country it is class that dictates your privilege in the main but all attempts to diversify generally focus on race, religion, sexuality etc and that's the wrong areas (Said as a straight, white, public school boy who still thinks he is working class because that is how I grew up). Class is just the hardest thing to diversify, because it isn't fixed like many other features.
Sorry for the ramble - and none of that really aimed at you as these aren't the things you've said but just started on that point |
No problem at all. |  | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:55 - Feb 12 with 1188 views | itfcjoe |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:42 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Positive discrimination is illegal in the UK. My professional sector has circa 30% non-white staff but less than half that percentage in leadership roles, and lower still in the most senior leadership roles. If positive discrimination was a thing, that wouldn't be the case. |
And also why do those numbers show there is no positive discrimination?
18% of the UK is non-white as per 2021, in 2001 it was 12.5% -if the leadership roles skew to a higher age then both those numbers are above the actual levels of non-white people in the UK | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 12:02 - Feb 12 with 1143 views | Herbivore |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:53 - Feb 12 by waveneyblue |
Wasn't much of an "attack" was it. Just some observations.
As i said to the OP, there's no point in commenting on this anymore.
The posters who broadly agree with his initial comments have moved on and the usuals remain to jump on any comment with their one-sided views. |
Are your views not one-sided then? I think calling someone an "arse" repeatedly is a personal attack, not an observation. Shame you can't just apologise for your unacceptable behaviour. | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 12:05 - Feb 12 with 1132 views | Herbivore |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:55 - Feb 12 by itfcjoe |
And also why do those numbers show there is no positive discrimination?
18% of the UK is non-white as per 2021, in 2001 it was 12.5% -if the leadership roles skew to a higher age then both those numbers are above the actual levels of non-white people in the UK |
Your figures are still out, and barely anyone stays in the sector for 20+ years in any case. There is also a lot of research that backs up that discrimination in the sector is the traditional kind, not the illegal positive kind. | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 12:33 - Feb 12 with 989 views | Ryorry |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:13 - Feb 12 by Jimmy86 |
I believe in equality... I believe that everyone SHOULD be treated the same, regardless of their skin colour.. Kerr has added context to her comments by talking about the perceived white privilege of the officer, but to me, she didn't need to reference his skin colour as that's what could be perceived to being racist, when used the way she did..
What I don't agree with, is the fact the reaction would be a hell of a lot different from the public, not the jury, had the same slur been made against a black officer, as opposed to a white officer... I'm not offended by what she said.. or the fact she's been found not guilty.. I'm annoyed at the double standards of it all |
"to me, she didn't need to reference his skin colour as that's what could be perceived to being racist, when used the way she did."
"to me". That's the issue. If you 're a white bloke, your perspective isn't what counts - it's hers & her lived experience that does. Your handicap starter point in life was 0. Hers, as a person of colour, was -1. Your calling this issue "double standards" is akin to saying parallel bars are the same as uneven bars.
To take your own phrase "I believe that everyone SHOULD be treated the same, regardless of their skin colour." - yes they should be now and in future, but the fact is that people with a black/brown skin have *not* been - ie she's probably had, and/or friends/rellies of hers have had, bad experiences with white people not listening to her, so this incident with this officer has 'carry over' from her past experiences as a person of colour. That's a factor in her evidence which is relevant and necessary, but which, sadly, you still don't understand because it seems you still haven't bothered to do any background reading.
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 12:36 - Feb 12 with 969 views | waveneyblue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 12:02 - Feb 12 by Herbivore |
Are your views not one-sided then? I think calling someone an "arse" repeatedly is a personal attack, not an observation. Shame you can't just apologise for your unacceptable behaviour. |
Arse is hardly a savage take down.... its more of a gentle ribbing "you silly arse" .
And why should I apologise because you tell me to? Who made you in charge? I honestly can't think of anything I need to apologise for on this occasion | | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:11 - Feb 12 with 853 views | Herbivore |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 12:36 - Feb 12 by waveneyblue |
Arse is hardly a savage take down.... its more of a gentle ribbing "you silly arse" .
And why should I apologise because you tell me to? Who made you in charge? I honestly can't think of anything I need to apologise for on this occasion |
I haven't told you to, but you should apologise for being unnecessarily rude to someone just because they were asking questions that you didn't like. If you don't feel the need to apologise that speaks volumes. | |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:15 - Feb 12 with 831 views | leitrimblue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 11:20 - Feb 12 by giant_stow |
Small point of order: In a truly multicultural environment, its perfectly possible for a white person to be in a minority and treated with prejudice or racism. Its also perfectly possible for people of colour to be racist towards each other. |
6 fingered honky  |  | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:24 - Feb 12 with 792 views | leitrimblue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 10:49 - Feb 12 by Jimmy86 |
Where have I ever said i believed black police officers don't face regular racism from their colleagues or from the public? I know that's the case and is absolutely deplorable.. that should be called out for what it is..
But the same standards should be applied if the shoe is on the opposite foot, as has been the case here.. that's what I'm saying.. you then think I'm offended.. I'm not offended by what she said or did.. |
So you understand that black officers face regular racism from both the public and there colleagues.
Do you think the average white officer faces more racism?
Do you think that the perpetrators of racism towards black officers have faced prison sentences?
If not, have you ever considered starting posts on the unfairness of the system? | | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:26 - Feb 12 with 783 views | leitrimblue |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 10:49 - Feb 12 by Ryorry |
FWIW I think Jimmy’s intentions are probably good, but he’s gone down the erroneous “all lives matter” route. Hope he reads up to educate himself on the subject (why wouldn’t anyone really).
Feel free to tell me if I’m wrong Jimmy :) |
I think and hope yer probably right | | | |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:27 - Feb 12 with 779 views | giant_stow |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:15 - Feb 12 by leitrimblue |
6 fingered honky |
Brute! |  |
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| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:41 - Feb 12 with 728 views | MattinLondon |
| Sam Kerr found not guilty of racial aggravated harassment on 13:27 - Feb 12 by giant_stow |
Brute! |
The ‘brute’ response always makes me laugh and somewhat happy. |  | | |
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