| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war 07:47 - Feb 19 with 5659 views | reusersfreekicks |
Just a bad horrible evil bloke.
The western alliance has gone. Europe needs to recognise that.
Scary times for us and coming generations.
I do wonder if the average American realises what's going on. |  | | |  |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 07:57 - Feb 19 with 3370 views | buoyant |
The problem is that the majority of them are as ignorant as he is and those that aren't are more concerned about the dollar in their pocket than issues that have no to little affect on their daily lives. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:06 - Feb 19 with 3343 views | Churchman |
They started it because they didn’t surrender. Bit like Poland started WW2 by being invaded. In fact with this logic any victim of unprovoked assault should be imprisoned for starting it by not begging hard enough or ‘doing a deal’. I look forward to seeing Trump releasing Americas rapists, thieves and murderers on that deformed basis.
The average American doesn’t know anything and believes every word Trump says, I suspect. He’s making America great again. Art of the deal and all that garbage. [Post edited 19 Feb 9:52]
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:14 - Feb 19 with 3290 views | homer_123 |
Shocking, deplorable but standard fare. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:22 - Feb 19 with 3220 views | Meadowlark |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 07:57 - Feb 19 by buoyant |
The problem is that the majority of them are as ignorant as he is and those that aren't are more concerned about the dollar in their pocket than issues that have no to little affect on their daily lives. |
I have an American cousin.
He says :
"We were told. We voted for this s**t. We should be ashamed of ourselves. 49.5% are.
50.5% were asleep, believe the propaganda and like it. I like to think only 10% are stupid, but really? It’s 50.5%." |  | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:22 - Feb 19 with 3220 views | StokieBlue |
Welcome to the post-truth world.
It's now all about narratives and fanatical support. The evidence and facts are largely irrelevant.
SB |  | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:32 - Feb 19 with 3125 views | NthQldITFC |
From the BBC:
'Ukrainian MP Oleksiy Honcharenko says US President Donald Trump's latest remarks about Ukraine were "not pleasant to hear".
But speaking to the BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he says: "It’s not about someone being offended, we’re not in a kindergarten - it’s too serious."
"We’re being killed here every day, we’re dying here every day," he adds.'
That's the trouble with seeing a transcript of something; the whole meaning of this quote hinges on the degree of emphasis on the we're in the second paragraph. Without having heard it first hand, I can only assume that it was the most heavily emphasised word in Radio 4 history. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:33 - Feb 19 with 3123 views | nodge_blue |
A generous interpretation maybe that there could have been a settlement when Ukraine was talking to the Russians after the initial invasion. The land they will have to concede today is probably the same they would have conceded then. But they felt they had to try.
I’m amazed at the general will of the Ukrainian people. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:34 - Feb 19 with 3106 views | BlueNomad |
Victim blaming on a macro scale. |  | | |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:35 - Feb 19 with 3098 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:22 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
Welcome to the post-truth world.
It's now all about narratives and fanatical support. The evidence and facts are largely irrelevant.
SB |
He takes on the view of the last person he talked to... |  | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:39 - Feb 19 with 3062 views | Guthrum |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:22 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
Welcome to the post-truth world.
It's now all about narratives and fanatical support. The evidence and facts are largely irrelevant.
SB |
This is the key point. Statements are not necessarily (or even usually) aimed at their apparent targets, but are entirely for domestic consumption by the President's support base. Thus they are couched in extraordinary language with logic paths which do not seem to make sense to the outsider.
See also Vance's speech the other day. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:44 - Feb 19 with 2998 views | OldFart71 |
Didn't the majority believe Thatcher, didn't the majority believe Blair and Johnson when he took us out of the EU. Didn't the majority believe Starmer ? although admittedly he at least has another four years to prove himself. The problem is although I do believe we are not as gullible as Americans we still tend to believe whoever tells us things will get better under them and unfortunately it never does. They and the money men control our lives and determine what we have left in our pockets just as they do in every corner of the world to a greater or lesser degree. | | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:51 - Feb 19 with 2958 views | Guthrum |
If you walk into a room with Sergey Lavrov, you'd better have your wits about you. A very canny and experienced diplomat.
Don't think Rubio is that good. Nor does he have the experience outside Latin America.
For the "average American" (insofar as such a thing exists), the rest of the world is physically a long way away, its apparent main impact being upon loss of local jobs and costing money which could be spent on their sometimes struggling communities. Not to mention taxation which is then being sent abroad. | |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:52 - Feb 19 with 2946 views | lowhouseblue |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:35 - Feb 19 by redrickstuhaart |
He takes on the view of the last person he talked to... |
one of the last trump administration, who is now very anti, was on the radio earlier saying this. his view was that trump could be persuaded through one to one conversations, and the key now was for, eg, european leaders to speak directly to him to explain how the ukrainian war actually started. he thought the people who had fed the notion that ukraine was at fault could be drowned out. which is a glint of hope i guess. but it means that the person driving the biggest change in world power politics for 80 years doesn't have a fixed view on any of it from day to day, and is capable of adopting multiple mutually inconsistent positions over a short period. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:52 - Feb 19 with 2949 views | NthQldITFC |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:22 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
Welcome to the post-truth world.
It's now all about narratives and fanatical support. The evidence and facts are largely irrelevant.
SB |
Yup, post-truth is no longer limited to the odd squirming, cheating politician or business leader bare-facedly denying pollution or corruption, it's now deeply embedded in the biggest governmental organisation in the world, and has a foothold that will be hard to remove. These charlie hunts no longer have any shame about standing there and spouting sh!t which anybody with half a brain knows is outright lies pitched at a level to capture just enough idiots.
We blame social media for facilitating the manipulation of the unthinking electorate - which is undoubtedly true - but I think Hollywood has a huge responsibility for perverting the bullsh!t filters in the minds of the public. If you think about the nature and apparent realism of so many stupid films (particularly things enabled by CGI), you can sort of see why people believe that magical solutions to age old problems are suddenly possible just because some orange tvvat says so.
The Americans haven't suddenly become stupid compared with the Americans of the mid 20th Century, they're just the victims of their own success in producing methods and material that rot the brain. We're not wise enough to cope with how clever we have become. | |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:16 - Feb 19 with 2743 views | Guthrum |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 08:52 - Feb 19 by lowhouseblue |
one of the last trump administration, who is now very anti, was on the radio earlier saying this. his view was that trump could be persuaded through one to one conversations, and the key now was for, eg, european leaders to speak directly to him to explain how the ukrainian war actually started. he thought the people who had fed the notion that ukraine was at fault could be drowned out. which is a glint of hope i guess. but it means that the person driving the biggest change in world power politics for 80 years doesn't have a fixed view on any of it from day to day, and is capable of adopting multiple mutually inconsistent positions over a short period. |
That's always been how Trump operates.
He's like the 19th century idea of an eastern potentate - acting on a whim, capriciously influenced by those around him and always right (even if he's demonstrably not, or it contradicts what he may have said before). | |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:24 - Feb 19 with 2686 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 07:57 - Feb 19 by buoyant |
The problem is that the majority of them are as ignorant as he is and those that aren't are more concerned about the dollar in their pocket than issues that have no to little affect on their daily lives. |
I can imagine that these cuts that Musk is relentlessly pursuing will end up hitting ordinary folk in the pocket. If we ever do, that’s when we’ll see the tide turn against Trump. One thing we saw here under a useless, reckless populist (Johnson, but Truss would also qualify) was that when the tide does turn it does so very quickly. Johnson’s support crashed through the floor in no time. Maybe that’s wishful thinking in this case though. Who knows what the MAGA bunch are thinking/capable of. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:28 - Feb 19 with 2663 views | WinchBlue |
The US doesn’t want to get involved unless it directly affects them which it doesn’t and Trump is just interested in the economics & what outcome will be most profitable.
History tells us this.
The US didn’t want to get involved in WW1 and only did so because the Germans kept sinking their cargo ships.
They didn’t want to get involved with WW2 but were forced in due to Pearl Harbour (& in fact Germany declared war on the US).
We’ve been lucky for the past 80 years but WW3 may well be round the corner, & it’s nuclear, & the US will keep out of it for as long as possible. |  | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:32 - Feb 19 with 2632 views | iamatractorboy |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:24 - Feb 19 by Swansea_Blue |
I can imagine that these cuts that Musk is relentlessly pursuing will end up hitting ordinary folk in the pocket. If we ever do, that’s when we’ll see the tide turn against Trump. One thing we saw here under a useless, reckless populist (Johnson, but Truss would also qualify) was that when the tide does turn it does so very quickly. Johnson’s support crashed through the floor in no time. Maybe that’s wishful thinking in this case though. Who knows what the MAGA bunch are thinking/capable of. |
It's already been hitting farmers who had contracts connected to the USAID programme. Same thing with Trump voters who have been unceremoniously axed from their civil service jobs. I've seen a number of online posts pleading with Trump to reconsider. The schadenfreude is delicious, although I feel desperately sorry for those that voted for Harris and are getting the same treatment. I'm sure there will still be plenty of mental gymnastics by most Trump supporters who are negatively affected, blaming Democrats, or the universe, before they ever consider their hero may be the one to point the finger at. | | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:34 - Feb 19 with 2622 views | itfcjoe |
I think it's very much a 'price of everything, value of nothing' culture in the West at the moment, and that's on steroids in the US.
There has not been a good consistent message in how foreign aid and spending isn't done for philanthropic reasons, but that there is a longer and much more important pay off with things like cementing place in the world, soft power, rising tides etc
The average American will be struggling financially, with terrible healthcare, rising gas and food prices, terrible employee rights etc and are being told we can save $3tn as a country and erroneously think that that money will help them, not go into Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos and Trump's back pockets |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:40 - Feb 19 with 2558 views | blueislander |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:16 - Feb 19 by Guthrum |
That's always been how Trump operates.
He's like the 19th century idea of an eastern potentate - acting on a whim, capriciously influenced by those around him and always right (even if he's demonstrably not, or it contradicts what he may have said before). |
Trump is aligning the USA with Russia . Not just over Ukraine , but in general terms. He seems to admire the fact that Putin can do what he likes without fear of opposition. If anyone dares to voice opposition they are summarily dealt with. The only thing that Trump cares about, apart from himself obviously,is money. It all comes down to doing a deal. He has absolutely no moral compass. Who knows how this will end. As other posters have pointed out, the majority of Americans do not care about world5 affairs as long as they are not affected financially. | | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:41 - Feb 19 with 2549 views | bsw72 |
Europe does recognise it - but needs to be careful not to alienate Trump by their reaction, he is after all just a mirror of the last conversation he had . . .
As for the average American, their knowledge is controlled by their media, and their media is socially and politically biased, so they will only know what they are being told by Fox, CBS, CNN, CBN etc etc
I know people moan about the perceived media bias in this country, but we are very fortunate in comparison. |  | | |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:44 - Feb 19 with 2488 views | Guthrum |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:41 - Feb 19 by bsw72 |
Europe does recognise it - but needs to be careful not to alienate Trump by their reaction, he is after all just a mirror of the last conversation he had . . .
As for the average American, their knowledge is controlled by their media, and their media is socially and politically biased, so they will only know what they are being told by Fox, CBS, CNN, CBN etc etc
I know people moan about the perceived media bias in this country, but we are very fortunate in comparison. |
Indeed. Altho I had been told, was still shocked at the hectoring, you-must-believe-this tone of US media. And that was CNN. Fox is only a mirror of that. | |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:55 - Feb 19 with 2387 views | Pinewoodblue |
It is difficult to see how the US can mediate when its President is clearly having his strings pulled by Putin.
Trump has taken everything he has been told by Putin as gospel and now expresses them as fact.
So sad that no one close to Trump is prepared to tell him the truth. I really hope that next week, when Starmer visits Washington, he has the guts to be stronger than I think he is. |  |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 10:05 - Feb 19 with 2294 views | SaleAway |
Someone shared this with me on another Social channel:
It was always going to end like this.
You could smell it in the air—something rancid, like a well-done steak doused in ketchup, left to rot under a Florida sun. It wasn’t just the cheap cologne of bad deals or the faint musk of an oligarch’s overstuffed yacht. No, this was the reek of betrayal, marinated in stupidity, grilled over a bonfire of American credibility.
The fix was in. The con had reached its inevitable punchline. And somewhere in Moscow, Vladimir Putin was sipping a vodka, toasting Donald Trump—the gift that keeps on giving.
Ukraine was doomed the second Trump got his bloated carcass back into the Oval Office. The man is allergic to principles. Diplomacy, in his mind, is just a real estate hustle with nuclear warheads. So when he started talking about Ukraine like a used-car salesman trying to unload a lemon—maybe it’s Russian, maybe it’s not, who knows?—it was clear that Zelenskyy was about to get stiffed harder than a waitress at Mar-a-Lago.
Then came Pete Hegseth, the walking fever dream of a Fox News segment, now Trump’s Defense Secretary. He stepped up to a NATO meeting and announced what everyone had feared but few could believe: a return to Ukraine’s 2014 borders was unrealistic.
Translated from Trump-speak, this meant Ukraine was being cut loose. Good luck against the Russian war machine. The Budapest Memorandum, the so-called security guarantee that convinced Ukraine to give up its nukes back in 1994, might as well have been printed on a cocktail napkin. Ukraine had cashed in its chips decades ago, and now the casino was being repossessed by the Russian mob.
You had to admire it. The patience. The long con.
Vladimir Putin didn’t have to do a damn thing. He just sat back and waited while America elected the one guy who would do the job for him.
Back in 2014, when he first carved off Crimea like a chunk of stale bread, the world put up some weak-kneed resistance. A few sanctions. Some sternly worded statements. But it was Obama, and at least he had the decency to look uncomfortable about it.
Then Trump came along, purring like a cat that just found a pile of Russian rubles in his litter box. Suddenly, Crimea wasn’t an invasion—it was a territorial dispute. Sanctions weren’t a punishment—they were unfair to Russia.
Now the orange wrecking ball is back in charge, and the Kremlin can barely contain its glee. The plan is simple. Trump pulls the U.S. out of the Ukraine fight. Europe is left holding the bag. Russia watches and waits. Maybe it takes a year. Maybe five. But Ukraine will fall, piece by piece, and Trump won’t lift a finger to stop it.
The best part is that he gets to pretend he’s some kind of peacemaker while he hands over Ukraine like a crooked referee fixing a boxing match. He just wants people to stop dying, he says, as he shoves Zelenskyy into the ring with a much bigger opponent and takes away his gloves.
This isn’t just about Ukraine. This is a giant neon sign flashing in every dictator’s capital from Beijing to Tehran. The United States doesn’t keep its promises. The 1994 Budapest Memorandum isn’t just Ukraine’s problem anymore. It’s a message to every country that ever thought about trusting America. Taiwan better start stockpiling missiles, because if China makes a move, guess who won’t be showing up. The Baltics should get used to the sound of Russian tanks, because Trump already told NATO he might not come to their defense. Any country thinking about disarming should forget it. If Ukraine had kept those nukes, they wouldn’t be in this mess.
The real lesson here isn’t about war or peace—it’s about power. Trump has done what no American president has ever done before: made nuclear weapons look like a good investment. Imagine you’re a leader in some unstable region, watching Ukraine get gutted in real-time. The takeaway is simple. If you give up your nukes, you get invaded. If you keep them, no one touches you.
So here we are. Trump is cuddling up to Putin, NATO is on life support, and Ukraine is dangling over the abyss, abandoned by the very country that once swore to protect it.
Meanwhile, in Moscow, the vodka is flowing, the caviar is fresh, and the laughter is loud.
Putin didn’t just win Ukraine. He won the whole damn argument.
What happens next is predictable. Trump will spend the next year patting himself on the back for ending the war while Ukraine bleeds out in slow motion. Maybe he’ll even try to cut some Trump Tower Moscow deal now that he’s free to negotiate with his good friend Vladimir.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world watches, horrified, as the post-World War II order crumbles into dust.
America used to be the country that stood for something.
Now it stands for nothing.
The wolves are circling. And Trump, in all his bloated, self-obsessed glory, just handed them the keys to the henhouse.
Sleep tight, world. The lunatics are back in charge. | |
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| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 10:10 - Feb 19 with 2254 views | Churchman |
| Trump effectively blaming Ukraine for the war on 09:55 - Feb 19 by Pinewoodblue |
It is difficult to see how the US can mediate when its President is clearly having his strings pulled by Putin.
Trump has taken everything he has been told by Putin as gospel and now expresses them as fact.
So sad that no one close to Trump is prepared to tell him the truth. I really hope that next week, when Starmer visits Washington, he has the guts to be stronger than I think he is. |
It’ll be interesting to see see how Starmer does. We shouldn’t pre judge him but it’s not easy.
The problem is that Trump only respects and listens to the superpowers. The perceived strongmen. The only strong man in Europe is Putin. He cares not a hoot that Putin’s pigs fired 160 drones and two Islanders ballistic missiles into Ukraine’s infrastructure last night. In fact he probably got a little red sweat on shouting ‘way to go Vladdykins! Wahoo! You show ‘em’.
If I was Starmer I’d cancel it. But then politics and diplomacy are to me about as alien as watching a country get invaded without provocation and getting blamed for it. | | | |
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