| I’m interested in your thoughts…… 09:46 - Aug 9 with 4660 views | Chrisd |
McKenna did a terrific job for us during his time with the club, but come May 2027 and GON has us sitting 4th from bottom in the EPL escaping relegation, will he be seen as a better manager than KM by our fanbase? |  |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 11:56 - Aug 9 with 1030 views | OldFart71 |
Due to being away on holiday I had no idea until returning that KM was gone. It was avery sad day for me as when he came in many were questioning if he was the right person. I rejected that suggestion and said he should be given time. which fortunately he was.
Whether our success was totally due to KM is debateable.
All the stars aligned, most of those who came in did the job expected of them and the ones already at the club were pretty spot on as well.
When we got promoted to the Premier League it was said we got there prematurely as maybe Gamechanger had in mind around 5 years and we set up more for demotion than securing a permanent place.
It looks like we are now preparing for a stay in the Prem due to the differnt types of player we are buying. Whether that ultimately gets achieved we shall see as we are fishing in a much more expensive pond where £20 million is chicken feed. Not for us, but for the bigger clubs and it will be extremely difficult to stay in this league.
So to compare KM and GON is really a non starter as we have no idea whether or how many of those brought in recently would have been brought in by KM. | | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 12:07 - Aug 9 with 1004 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 11:05 - Aug 9 by Blue_Heath |
Very difficult to compare but I'd say keeping us up for two seasons with progress in the second it would be a yes. Keeping us up this year I'd say puts them fairly level as it would equal KM's second promotion whereas tbh the other two should have been a given. |
So our first promotion from Championship to Prem - despite having only just been promoted from League 1 - "should have been a given"?!? |  |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 15:09 - Aug 9 with 894 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 09:52 - Aug 9 by ITFC_Forever |
For GO’N to be have a successful season, we need to stay up or fight a competitive relegation battle that we only just lose.
But in answer to the original question, it was McKenna that got us here in the first place from mid-table in L1, so no, one season of survival won’t put GO’N ahead of McKenna. |
Not ahead but level
League 1 promotion . Expected
Champ promotion.. not expected
Prem relegation expected
Champ promotion expected
Prem survival.. not expected but hopeful
So for me O'neil could equal KM in terms of managing something not expected. [Post edited 9 Aug 15:10]
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 15:16 - Aug 9 with 866 views | Vic |
Not for me. IMO its far more nuanced than that. |  |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 15:35 - Aug 9 with 842 views | Smoresy |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 12:07 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
So our first promotion from Championship to Prem - despite having only just been promoted from League 1 - "should have been a given"?!? |
That’s the second promotion, not the ‘givens’ aha. Whether surviving a first season in the PL is broadly equivalent to achieving automatic promotion as a newly promoted club from L1.. far too many variables imo to be confident of such comparison. We don’t know the hand O’Neil will be dealt yet for starters. Hopefully it won’t require a miracle to survive this time. | | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 15:38 - Aug 9 with 835 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Hes building on what was already here and from an entirely different base. |  |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 16:45 - Aug 9 with 798 views | franz_tyson |
I'll never forget the time under Kieran. Loved it, apart from the PL season.
And now I'm pretty happy he's made this decision. We can all look back and enjoy tbe memories and add in Chappers, Wes and all the rest as part of the nostalgia.
That's set in stone now.
However, I don't think Kieran is better equipped to fight a relegation battle than GON. So it works out OK, for me.
And I'd say it's unlikely GON would have had the 3 promotions Kieran had.
GON will have to do a lot more than 17th place or better to surpass Kieran. | | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 16:47 - Aug 9 with 798 views | Blue_In_Boston |
Ranking managers (and players) is impossible, - era's have changed, expectation levels move etc...
The word legend is bandied about too often, as much as I love Wes, the outpouring over his departure and suggestions of continuing singing his song is ridiculous. Perhaps he is a modern legend, but in the scheme of town history he doesn't merit that word.
Lets stop harking about who was the best, comparing KMK and GON, and support the lads and management in the dugout and wearing the shirt every match this season. | | | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 17:00 - Aug 9 with 786 views | Nutkins_Return |
Not if we scrape over the line no. But he would have achieved the goal.
McKenna achieved 3 huge goals in his 4 full seasons. Both the championship promotions would be bigger than that for very different reasons. If he got us mid table there would be more of a conversation but I think longevity and consistency come into it.
If GON is still with us and we are still prem in 3-4 years he will have done a fantastic job and the club will be in a fanatic place hopefully.
This season is going to be really hard! Signings have given me optimism. | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 18:40 - Aug 9 with 741 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 15:35 - Aug 9 by Smoresy |
That’s the second promotion, not the ‘givens’ aha. Whether surviving a first season in the PL is broadly equivalent to achieving automatic promotion as a newly promoted club from L1.. far too many variables imo to be confident of such comparison. We don’t know the hand O’Neil will be dealt yet for starters. Hopefully it won’t require a miracle to survive this time. |
yeah I got a bit confused with his wording there, but frankly I don't think ANY promotion is a "given". | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 18:56 - Aug 9 with 728 views | armchaircritic59 |
Personally I don't care. Just give me 17th place ( or better ) this coming season. KM made his decision to walk away, for no doubt very good reasons, family etc, so we had to get a new manager in, no choice. I could try and compare G O'N to the two sirs, again pointless. Let me make quite clear, whatever Keiron decides to do in the future, i will wish him the very best of luck. |  | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 19:19 - Aug 9 with 715 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
McKenna had a ridiculous budget in league 1 and a season and a half to get us up was about what was expected there really.
His magical season was 2024 which likely changed the next decade for us as a club. Built on momentum, style and surprise, just took the league by storm, in the parachute era probably one of the best EFL seasons ever.
Last year was a bit of a slog and dogfight and in some ways I think we got a bit lucky due to Boro implosion but it doesn’t matter, he done the job. Three promotions out of four, remarkable but it was the project, vision and money off the field as well that of course played a huge part as well.
Will certainly go down an incredible era, would have been interested to see what 24/25 would have been like if we were in the championship and Leeds went up instead. I think we might have kept a few too many players due to the two years before and been a playoff contender but not a top 2 side but one will never know. |  |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:14 - Aug 9 with 655 views | Churchman |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 19:19 - Aug 9 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
McKenna had a ridiculous budget in league 1 and a season and a half to get us up was about what was expected there really.
His magical season was 2024 which likely changed the next decade for us as a club. Built on momentum, style and surprise, just took the league by storm, in the parachute era probably one of the best EFL seasons ever.
Last year was a bit of a slog and dogfight and in some ways I think we got a bit lucky due to Boro implosion but it doesn’t matter, he done the job. Three promotions out of four, remarkable but it was the project, vision and money off the field as well that of course played a huge part as well.
Will certainly go down an incredible era, would have been interested to see what 24/25 would have been like if we were in the championship and Leeds went up instead. I think we might have kept a few too many players due to the two years before and been a playoff contender but not a top 2 side but one will never know. |
This idea that we ‘got a bit lucky’ last season might be justification to the large number of dismals on here that were dismissive of the players and in some cases manager - and in their view a reason to replace the whole team. But it is fundamentally wrong.
You finish where you deserve in a 46 game season, end of. It’s always been that way and always will be. Middlesbrough fell away. Leeds did two years ago. No luck in that. They couldn’t stay the distance. We could. It wasn’t always a slog either. Wiping the floor with Norwich and Coventry are just two examples. The credit belongs to players, coaches and as you rightly point out the owners/club itself.
Last year’s team finished fitter and stronger than the rest. It was also at the end playing devastating football at times. That is McKenna’s view (see his speech to players and staff after QPR) and he was right. I of all people am not going to question it. |  | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:17 - Aug 9 with 636 views | Mullet |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:14 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
This idea that we ‘got a bit lucky’ last season might be justification to the large number of dismals on here that were dismissive of the players and in some cases manager - and in their view a reason to replace the whole team. But it is fundamentally wrong.
You finish where you deserve in a 46 game season, end of. It’s always been that way and always will be. Middlesbrough fell away. Leeds did two years ago. No luck in that. They couldn’t stay the distance. We could. It wasn’t always a slog either. Wiping the floor with Norwich and Coventry are just two examples. The credit belongs to players, coaches and as you rightly point out the owners/club itself.
Last year’s team finished fitter and stronger than the rest. It was also at the end playing devastating football at times. That is McKenna’s view (see his speech to players and staff after QPR) and he was right. I of all people am not going to question it. |
Except that's not true is it? We didn't finish above Coventry who we doubled. Who were lucky that the division was weaker than it had been for years and had very few big fish in it.
Saints and Leicester both came down as utter messes and basket cases. We really should have won the league had we been close to as good as we could have been. That's even more obvious now than it was to anyone paying attention at the time. |  |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 21:53 - Aug 9 with 573 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:14 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
This idea that we ‘got a bit lucky’ last season might be justification to the large number of dismals on here that were dismissive of the players and in some cases manager - and in their view a reason to replace the whole team. But it is fundamentally wrong.
You finish where you deserve in a 46 game season, end of. It’s always been that way and always will be. Middlesbrough fell away. Leeds did two years ago. No luck in that. They couldn’t stay the distance. We could. It wasn’t always a slog either. Wiping the floor with Norwich and Coventry are just two examples. The credit belongs to players, coaches and as you rightly point out the owners/club itself.
Last year’s team finished fitter and stronger than the rest. It was also at the end playing devastating football at times. That is McKenna’s view (see his speech to players and staff after QPR) and he was right. I of all people am not going to question it. |
People seem to have forgotten the brutal fixture pileup we had at the end as well. | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 22:05 - Aug 9 with 560 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:14 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
This idea that we ‘got a bit lucky’ last season might be justification to the large number of dismals on here that were dismissive of the players and in some cases manager - and in their view a reason to replace the whole team. But it is fundamentally wrong.
You finish where you deserve in a 46 game season, end of. It’s always been that way and always will be. Middlesbrough fell away. Leeds did two years ago. No luck in that. They couldn’t stay the distance. We could. It wasn’t always a slog either. Wiping the floor with Norwich and Coventry are just two examples. The credit belongs to players, coaches and as you rightly point out the owners/club itself.
Last year’s team finished fitter and stronger than the rest. It was also at the end playing devastating football at times. That is McKenna’s view (see his speech to players and staff after QPR) and he was right. I of all people am not going to question it. |
I don’t really care what you think tbh, going up with that amount of points and having your main promotion rival have literal relegation form for 10 weeks was pretty fortunate. Leeds did not fall away to anything like the levels that Boro did. | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 22:07 - Aug 9 with 558 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:17 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Except that's not true is it? We didn't finish above Coventry who we doubled. Who were lucky that the division was weaker than it had been for years and had very few big fish in it.
Saints and Leicester both came down as utter messes and basket cases. We really should have won the league had we been close to as good as we could have been. That's even more obvious now than it was to anyone paying attention at the time. |
Indeed. | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 22:34 - Aug 9 with 509 views | Suffolktractor |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 22:05 - Aug 9 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I don’t really care what you think tbh, going up with that amount of points and having your main promotion rival have literal relegation form for 10 weeks was pretty fortunate. Leeds did not fall away to anything like the levels that Boro did. |
It doesn’t matter whether you pick up your points early in the season (Middlesborough) or later (us).
Saying we were lucky Middlesborough had a poor end of season is the same as saying Middlesborough were lucky we had such a poor start. They couldn’t handle the pressure, we could. | | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 23:15 - Aug 9 with 468 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 22:34 - Aug 9 by Suffolktractor |
It doesn’t matter whether you pick up your points early in the season (Middlesborough) or later (us).
Saying we were lucky Middlesborough had a poor end of season is the same as saying Middlesborough were lucky we had such a poor start. They couldn’t handle the pressure, we could. |
Boro got 4 points out of 21 between early March and the end of April.
That obviously helped us, it’s not really a controversial statement. There’s an argument a parachute club with our level of spend shouldn’t have really needed that but who cares, we got more points in the end. | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 23:20 - Aug 9 with 462 views | Churchman |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 20:17 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
Except that's not true is it? We didn't finish above Coventry who we doubled. Who were lucky that the division was weaker than it had been for years and had very few big fish in it.
Saints and Leicester both came down as utter messes and basket cases. We really should have won the league had we been close to as good as we could have been. That's even more obvious now than it was to anyone paying attention at the time. |
It was weaker in your opinion. Not mine. That the points totals were lower could be put down to it being more competitive. There will be a number of reasons and ways to spin it. Most teams were organised, fit and resilient. With a few exceptions just about all of them defended for their lives and set up accordingly.
But of course, the ‘weaker division’ narrative suits the brigade that spent the season laundering the sheets and the 30+ on here who wanted McKenna sacked after Blackburn away.
Yes, Coventry finished above us and deserved to. They had a settled side that started the season well and saw it through. They were consistent. We started the season poorly with a new team. It’s easy to sell Sunderland’s magnificent effort as the new normal but that really isn’t how it is normally. It takes time to form a team. And that is precisely what happened, beginning with wiping the floor with Coventry in December.
One of the strongest teams after Christmas was one you describe as a basket case. Southampton. They’d battered just about everyone for months. But had that game at St Mary’s gone another ten minutes we’d have won that. We were tearing them apart at the end. As for the QPR game, I don’t know if you bothered with it, but that first 20 odd minutes?
I’ll take McKenna’s view on that and the merits of what was achieved at the end of the season. | | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 23:39 - Aug 9 with 446 views | reusersfreekicks |
No |  | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 23:51 - Aug 9 with 438 views | itfcsuth |
Kieran McKenna changed the fortunes of this football club for an entire generation of fans.
From a stale average League 1 side to a Premier League side twice over in the space of 5 years.
It would be a huge success to survive the Premier League drop this season, but the fact we can even say that is down super Kieran McKenna, he knew exactly what we needed. |  | | |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 06:38 - Aug 10 with 359 views | Churchman |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 22:05 - Aug 9 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
I don’t really care what you think tbh, going up with that amount of points and having your main promotion rival have literal relegation form for 10 weeks was pretty fortunate. Leeds did not fall away to anything like the levels that Boro did. |
You don’t care what I think? I’ll do my best to live with the disappointment.
Actually, Leeds lost 4 of their last 6 games. That’s pretty spectacular falling away. Middlesbrough lost 4 last 15, but did draw too many (7). It was mid table form, not relegation. Not the same patterns as Leeds but throughout the season, Middlesbrough’s form went up and down for blocks of games.
If you wish to ascribe the success of last season to luck, that’s your choice. On that basis, let’s get the 1961/62 Champions honours note in the programme rubbed out and withdraw any credit to Alf Ramsey’s team. Ipswich got lucky in that Burnley won only one of their last 10 games.
We can also put the FA Cup in the bin. We were lucky with the draw, at Bristol in the snow and Brady was injured for the Final. Promotion in 2000? Dead lucky. Regardless of Barry Knight, Bolton were the better team for much of that tie. Lastly, let’s remove promotion in 1991/2. We only amassed 84 points to win it so it must have been a weak league. Oh, and of course the League One campaign when Wednesday collapsed.
Well that’s the trophy cabinet empty, unless you just want to single out McKenna’s team for last year because you didn’t like them or him.
Please don’t bother to respond. [Post edited 10 Aug 6:56]
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 09:14 - Aug 10 with 289 views | Mullet |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 23:20 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
It was weaker in your opinion. Not mine. That the points totals were lower could be put down to it being more competitive. There will be a number of reasons and ways to spin it. Most teams were organised, fit and resilient. With a few exceptions just about all of them defended for their lives and set up accordingly.
But of course, the ‘weaker division’ narrative suits the brigade that spent the season laundering the sheets and the 30+ on here who wanted McKenna sacked after Blackburn away.
Yes, Coventry finished above us and deserved to. They had a settled side that started the season well and saw it through. They were consistent. We started the season poorly with a new team. It’s easy to sell Sunderland’s magnificent effort as the new normal but that really isn’t how it is normally. It takes time to form a team. And that is precisely what happened, beginning with wiping the floor with Coventry in December.
One of the strongest teams after Christmas was one you describe as a basket case. Southampton. They’d battered just about everyone for months. But had that game at St Mary’s gone another ten minutes we’d have won that. We were tearing them apart at the end. As for the QPR game, I don’t know if you bothered with it, but that first 20 odd minutes?
I’ll take McKenna’s view on that and the merits of what was achieved at the end of the season. |
I didn’t want McKenna sacked at all. You’re confusing opinion with fact throughout that to have some sort of rant at imaginary people who aren’t here.
Southampton sacked their manager and then cheated their way up the league. Your mental gymnastics are full of contradictions as you tie yourself in knots.
Given McKenna quit at the end of the season and cited exhaustion, it’s not exactly unreasonable to point out it was neither his best season or a roaring success given what actually happened. You can debate how lucky we got or whatever, but the facts are the division was incredibly poor by usual standards for a number of factors and we struggled to exploit that.
That doesn’t mean McKenna is being tarnished or it’s some sort of sacrilege to deal in truth and reality. | |
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| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 09:18 - Aug 10 with 277 views | ElderGrizzly |
| I’m interested in your thoughts…… on 10:07 - Aug 9 by Churchman |
Personally, I think that GON will need to keep us in the Premier League more than one season and establish us there to be put in the same bracket as McKenna.
It’s an interesting question, because of course the club was in a completely different place five years ago. McKenna’s achievement should not be underestimated, despite the financial advantage in L1 and last season. You still have to build a team and he did it twice.
The Premier League is of course a completely different beast, but hopefully GON is the right man and as a club we are in a better position to give it a much better go than last time. |
I can see O'Neil being a stepping stone for us.
He keeps us up, but that is about his limit. He's a basic, functional manager with lovely teeth. We then move on to bigger and better things.
McKenna's return... |  | | |
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