| How would you react if our owners did a Man City 16:27 - Sep 30 with 1716 views | BelsteadCav |
Would you be happy to take the punishment and drop to league 2
If it meant for the next 9 years we won 6 premier leagues
3 FA Cups and 1 Champions league?
Because I’ve seen a lot of fans on twitter say it’s not actually cheating spending your money ( but clearly it is cheating )
If City get to keep their trophies then is the punishment worth it? [Post edited 30 Sep 16:30]
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:28 - Sep 30 with 1641 views | DanTheMan |
No.
If we're going to cheat to win, might as well play with additional players. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:31 - Sep 30 with 1619 views | bartyg |
I would be out protesting against the owners, I certainly wouldn't be covering for them online (as many city fans are) |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:35 - Sep 30 with 1579 views | Guthrum |
Their fans will still count the trophies even if they are stripped.
I'd be deeply disappointed and embarrassed if our club was found to have pulled something like that. Rules are rules and how is anyone supposed to compete if nation states can buy teams and spend without limit? |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:39 - Sep 30 with 1542 views | TheMoralMajority |
A trophy won by cheating is not a trophy won, ergo, nah, not for me. [Post edited 30 Sep 16:39]
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| 100% committed to Dear Leader Ham |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:41 - Sep 30 with 1527 views | mutters |
No, I am still gutted that we had to go into administration which led lots of local companies and charities (or was it one?) out of pocket. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:01 - Sep 30 with 1442 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
No, because what's happening happens and those titles become at the very least tainted but in the minds of most people completely voided .
Man city are actually really tinpot, cant sell out for champions league games and have cheated their way to success based on the findings. If their appeal says otherwise then I'll think again but atm they are the worst case of finnancial doping in sports history. They should be slung down to league 2 and that's just for starters.
I never want my club to be that. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:39 - Sep 30 with 1337 views | Swansea_Blue |
Nope, not for me. I hadn’t appreciated how large their alleged cheating was. £800M out of £1.2BN transfer money fraudulently declared over that period. I know it’s being contested, so will keep the alleged bit in. IF they end up losing the appeal and are finally found guilty they should be booted out of the league as a minimum. Even that feels light, as they’d just bounce back straight away. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 18:20 - Sep 30 with 1252 views | J2BLUE |
They would keep their trophies with an asterisk.
Very odds question to be honest. It would be meaningless to win by cheating. |  | | |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 18:46 - Sep 30 with 1182 views | armchaircritic59 |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:35 - Sep 30 by Guthrum |
Their fans will still count the trophies even if they are stripped.
I'd be deeply disappointed and embarrassed if our club was found to have pulled something like that. Rules are rules and how is anyone supposed to compete if nation states can buy teams and spend without limit? |
Absolutely, I'd spare nothing just because it was a team I supported. No such thing as success when it's heavily tainted. |  | | |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 19:04 - Sep 30 with 1142 views | BelsteadCav |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 18:20 - Sep 30 by J2BLUE |
They would keep their trophies with an asterisk.
Very odds question to be honest. It would be meaningless to win by cheating. |
Then strip them of the trophies, just like Lance Armstrong
But like TDF no one gets the title for that year | |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 03:05 - Oct 1 with 798 views | Benters |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 19:04 - Sep 30 by BelsteadCav |
Then strip them of the trophies, just like Lance Armstrong
But like TDF no one gets the title for that year |
This. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 07:20 - Oct 1 with 682 views | ITFC_Forever |
Spending money you shouldn’t IS cheating, as it allows you to buy better players than you would do otherwise and therefore have a better team, win more matches and be more competitive for trophies.
It’s all been built on lies and City fans are victims in some ways in all of this as well.
City should be relegated to L2, have the trophies taken away and be hit with an enormous fine - I’m talking £1bn or getting on for.
And then the investigation needs to start on the seasons from 2018. There’s no way they suddenly saw the light and started acting like model citizens all of a sudden. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 08:03 - Oct 1 with 640 views | Metal_Hacker |
The problem with all this is that they were "allowed" to grow quicker than they should and becamse part of the big 6 oensuring no one else could sit at the top table with them creating the monopoly
For me they should be deducted points on a season by season basis ensuring relegation each season until they hit league 2 and start again .
They can keep their trophies and shove them where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned . We can't re-write history but the authorities can if they really want to create a new future for them by coming down on them like a ton of bricks
In answer to your question , if it were my club , sod that ! I'd be gutted ! |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:06 - Oct 1 with 458 views | NBVJohn |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 18:46 - Sep 30 by armchaircritic59 |
Absolutely, I'd spare nothing just because it was a team I supported. No such thing as success when it's heavily tainted. |
Perhaps in our case we could request that the overspend was amortised across the Evan’s years too which I am sure would more than bring us back in line…
It’s a hypothetical question as we haven’t won a major trophy though I appreciate our league 1 and Championship rivals wouldn’t see it that way.
Much of the commentary I have seen is based on the ripple effect this has on revised league standings and knock out cups which is too far reaching. Even when they didn’t win a competition their ultimate progress cheated teams along the way, but no player would want to celebrate a retrospective cup win from 6 years ago.
To answer your original question, I think that it would be the most humiliating outcome possible, but I imagine that the ramifications of this will inevitably include uncovering other guilty clubs. I wouldn’t be surprised if us along with other high spending clubs are on the radar of the FA. I suspect that there are some nervous owners out there. |  | | |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:13 - Oct 1 with 440 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:35 - Sep 30 by Guthrum |
Their fans will still count the trophies even if they are stripped.
I'd be deeply disappointed and embarrassed if our club was found to have pulled something like that. Rules are rules and how is anyone supposed to compete if nation states can buy teams and spend without limit? |
I suppose the counter point to that though is how can anyone compete if the big clubs can implement rules restricting anyone else from spending as much as them… |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:14 - Oct 1 with 437 views | MattinLondon |
No, as everything will be tainted.
Saying that, FFP is a total farce allowing the traditional much larger clubs to tighten their grip on realistic success. Liverpool and Man Utd are hundreds of millions of pounds in debt but can still allowed to spend tens of millions on new players.
And on an European level, Barca and Madrid are also drowning in debt but still spend freely.
If I was a Man City supporter I’d be really angry as yes, they spent a lot but simply because they have come to the party late, they are deemed to have cheated. |  | | |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:22 - Oct 1 with 422 views | Swansea_Blue |
Does doing a Man City also include (alleged) tax dodging? | |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:53 - Oct 1 with 398 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 07:20 - Oct 1 by ITFC_Forever |
Spending money you shouldn’t IS cheating, as it allows you to buy better players than you would do otherwise and therefore have a better team, win more matches and be more competitive for trophies.
It’s all been built on lies and City fans are victims in some ways in all of this as well.
City should be relegated to L2, have the trophies taken away and be hit with an enormous fine - I’m talking £1bn or getting on for.
And then the investigation needs to start on the seasons from 2018. There’s no way they suddenly saw the light and started acting like model citizens all of a sudden. |
Where does everyone get League 2 from?
a) it would take them three years to get back to the Premier League, when they cheated for nearly a decade (and continued to benefit from the accrued squad beyond the years of the charges).
b) The Premier League has no power to demote them to League 2. League 2 is part of the Football League pyramid. There are two ways this can play out:
I) Man City are expelled from the Premier League, effective immediately, and all their results this season are nullified. It is then up to the Football League to decide in the future whether to admit them and at which level. Precedent with Luton is irrelevant as that was a Football League punishment of multi-division relegation. In Scotland there is a comparable case with Rangers being completely expelled and having to start from the bottom of the pyramid. This is illuminating as precedent for the Football League to consider, but not binding.
The fact that a financially doped Manchester City played in the Football League Cup, and against Football League teams in the FA Cup including beating one in the Final, could give grounds for action by the Football League in the first case, and motive in the second.
ii) Man City are given a points deduction this season, but continue to fulfil their fixtures. They could then be relegated this season, which means they would start next season in the Championship, or escape relegation (if the points deducted total is low enough) and start next season in the Premier League.
The only scenario whereby Man City start next season in League Two is if they are expelled this season from the Premier League, and the Football League then arbitrarily decide to re-admit them at League Two level. There will be plenty of ex League Two sides in the Conference with axes to grind if that is the case.
Expulsion and re-admission as a new entrant at the bottom of the Football League pyramid is the most appropriate punishment, in my opinion, as it would take roughly the same number of years to return to the Premier League as they benefited from cheating in. | | | |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 18:03 - Oct 1 with 380 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:53 - Oct 1 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Where does everyone get League 2 from?
a) it would take them three years to get back to the Premier League, when they cheated for nearly a decade (and continued to benefit from the accrued squad beyond the years of the charges).
b) The Premier League has no power to demote them to League 2. League 2 is part of the Football League pyramid. There are two ways this can play out:
I) Man City are expelled from the Premier League, effective immediately, and all their results this season are nullified. It is then up to the Football League to decide in the future whether to admit them and at which level. Precedent with Luton is irrelevant as that was a Football League punishment of multi-division relegation. In Scotland there is a comparable case with Rangers being completely expelled and having to start from the bottom of the pyramid. This is illuminating as precedent for the Football League to consider, but not binding.
The fact that a financially doped Manchester City played in the Football League Cup, and against Football League teams in the FA Cup including beating one in the Final, could give grounds for action by the Football League in the first case, and motive in the second.
ii) Man City are given a points deduction this season, but continue to fulfil their fixtures. They could then be relegated this season, which means they would start next season in the Championship, or escape relegation (if the points deducted total is low enough) and start next season in the Premier League.
The only scenario whereby Man City start next season in League Two is if they are expelled this season from the Premier League, and the Football League then arbitrarily decide to re-admit them at League Two level. There will be plenty of ex League Two sides in the Conference with axes to grind if that is the case.
Expulsion and re-admission as a new entrant at the bottom of the Football League pyramid is the most appropriate punishment, in my opinion, as it would take roughly the same number of years to return to the Premier League as they benefited from cheating in. |
Rangers weren’t handed that big of a penalty. I can’t remember exactly but it was something like 6-10 points for one charge and a fine for another. It was going into administration that saw them having to start again. The other members of the league wouldn’t let the old bankrupt ownership transfer their league status to the newly formed legal entity, so that’s why they had to start again.
So starting being forced by the football authorities to start again would be new. I can’t see them doing that, but would be pleasantly surprised if they did. Is this the largest football scandal ever? Maybe even sports’ largest? | |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 18:14 - Oct 1 with 365 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I am 100% against what Man City's owners have done and they deserve whatever punishment they get.
As far as a fan is concerned, I would have loved experiencing everything their fans have enjoyed over the past decade or so. It is soured by the final knowledge and the likely impact on the future but no one can take away the experience they have enjoyed or the football they have been able to watch "their" team play.
But I still wouldn't want my club to deliberately cheat even if it meant enjoying all that for a time. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 08:10 - Oct 2 with 222 views | patrickswell |
Farage-gate caused me to distance myself from the club over the course of April/May. I didn’t watch any of the matches because I felt let down by being lied to over the affair. I just wanted to get to the end of that season and then start afresh this year, regardless of where we ended up.
So, if we had done what City had done, I’d either walk away entirely or at the very least, walk away until the ownership had gone. I get what City fans are saying about, “I remember how I felt in the moment of glory”, but it would then be impossible to look back on any of the achievements without feeling some kind of taint on them. |  | | |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 09:02 - Oct 2 with 185 views | Alberto_the_frog |
I am already uncomfortable that we, along with everyone else, make as big a loss as allowed in order to buy players. Owners allowing their clubs to make excessive losses should be deemed unfit to run a club. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 09:49 - Oct 2 with 159 views | ITFC_Essex |
It's cheating when others are playing by the rules that say they couldn't do that. If it was a free-for-all, spend what you like, then sure, but the other super clubs would have done the same and the likes of Arsenal, Manchester United, Chelsea and even Spurs were traditionally a bigger draw and more tempting for those players than a roided up-Man City were.
That aside, no, Marcus Evans was bad but hasn't brought the international humiliation this has to us, and if justice is done, they'll end up with no titles and sent back to League Two, from there, they will return to what they have always been, a bobber club between the top two (and occasional 3) leagues. |  |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 09:55 - Oct 2 with 148 views | ITFC_Essex |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 16:41 - Sep 30 by mutters |
No, I am still gutted that we had to go into administration which led lots of local companies and charities (or was it one?) out of pocket. |
Short sightedness from the banks led to the administrators, we owed what, a culminate 28-30 million - would have been paid back with a single promotion, even then. Rather than being smart and stalling the repayments for two years, allowing us to be promoted again, and then easily able to pay off the debt... we were instead forced to sell all of our best players, at much lower fees than they were worth, meaning less money in, and no promotion - and as a result, a chunk of people didn't get exactly what they were owed. | |
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| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 12:02 - Oct 2 with 84 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| How would you react if our owners did a Man City on 17:53 - Oct 1 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Where does everyone get League 2 from?
a) it would take them three years to get back to the Premier League, when they cheated for nearly a decade (and continued to benefit from the accrued squad beyond the years of the charges).
b) The Premier League has no power to demote them to League 2. League 2 is part of the Football League pyramid. There are two ways this can play out:
I) Man City are expelled from the Premier League, effective immediately, and all their results this season are nullified. It is then up to the Football League to decide in the future whether to admit them and at which level. Precedent with Luton is irrelevant as that was a Football League punishment of multi-division relegation. In Scotland there is a comparable case with Rangers being completely expelled and having to start from the bottom of the pyramid. This is illuminating as precedent for the Football League to consider, but not binding.
The fact that a financially doped Manchester City played in the Football League Cup, and against Football League teams in the FA Cup including beating one in the Final, could give grounds for action by the Football League in the first case, and motive in the second.
ii) Man City are given a points deduction this season, but continue to fulfil their fixtures. They could then be relegated this season, which means they would start next season in the Championship, or escape relegation (if the points deducted total is low enough) and start next season in the Premier League.
The only scenario whereby Man City start next season in League Two is if they are expelled this season from the Premier League, and the Football League then arbitrarily decide to re-admit them at League Two level. There will be plenty of ex League Two sides in the Conference with axes to grind if that is the case.
Expulsion and re-admission as a new entrant at the bottom of the Football League pyramid is the most appropriate punishment, in my opinion, as it would take roughly the same number of years to return to the Premier League as they benefited from cheating in. |
League Two comes directly from EFL Regulation 11.6.2(c).
Premier League Rule C.15: if a club ceases to be a Premier League member during the season, all of its league results that season are expunged and the number of clubs relegated is reduced so that the Premier League remains at 20 clubs.
That then triggers EFL Regulation 11.6.2, which specifically covers the EFL falling below 72 clubs “as a result of the operation of Premier League Rule C.15.”
It provides that:
Championship relegation is reduced to restore it to 24 clubs;
the same happens in League One;
but in League Two, the EFL Board can “admit any Association Football club as a member(s) to League 2” to restore the EFL to 72 clubs.
The route is: City cease to be a PL member → Rule C.15 applies → EFL Regulation 11.6.2 applies → the rules expressly provide for a former PL club to be accommodated in League Two.
That's where League Two comes from. It isn't arbitrary. | | | |
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