| Reality check. 20:17 - Feb 26 with 4943 views | Lord_Lucan |
I have been thinking about this pension deal thing ever since it was aired.
Is the whole lot being funded by the pension scheme?
I know little about this sort of thing but the way I see it pension funds are generally invested in safe ho hum ventures but there will be a very small amount invested in a high risk.
We are undoubtably high risk and it is likely that the overall pension pot is absolutely fecking feck off big time huge.
Hooever - I am guessing that if after a designated amount of time (and there is likely to be no leeway) we are not showing a potential flip then they will simply walk away.
Ironically yesterday I posted the underneath about the rumoured takeover before any Phoenix thing was mentioned.
"It could turn out to be a nuclear Be careful what you wish for Def Con 1 - Arizona" |  |
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| Reality check. on 21:04 - Feb 26 with 1986 views | itfcjoe |
| Reality check. on 20:49 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I agree
I think ME really does have the best interests and loves owning a football club but he seems to be reluctant to let someone do it for him. I don't know why. |
Yep, he could have saved millions over the last few years by just trusting someone to run it
HJe's not been a deliberately bad owner, or one with nefarious ideas - but he's been rubbish for us sadly |  |
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| Reality check. on 21:05 - Feb 26 with 1981 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Reality check. on 20:43 - Feb 26 by MrTown |
I think the only answer right now is we simply don’t know enough information on the financials/plan.
Just have to sit tight and see what occurs in the coming weeks and months and then can probably judge it again from there. |
In effect it seems that we would be owned by Asset Managers on behalf of a fund.
Worry would be how quickly the tap could be turned off if returns are not being achieved. [Post edited 26 Feb 2021 21:06]
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| Reality check. on 21:06 - Feb 26 with 1979 views | textbackup |
I saw it as they'll chuck 50m at us, we get to the prem, they sell us for 150m...
wishful thinking |  |
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| Reality check. on 21:07 - Feb 26 with 1972 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Reality check. on 20:44 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
They can't really borrow against no assets as the council own the ground. We are a liability.
Freehold = Asset
Lease = Liability. |
There is capital value in a long leasehold interest.
We own the stadium and pay a ground rent. | |
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| Reality check. on 21:10 - Feb 26 with 1959 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reality check. on 21:07 - Feb 26 by Marshalls_Mullet |
There is capital value in a long leasehold interest.
We own the stadium and pay a ground rent. |
If you were a block of flats or part of a high street then yes - but in our case it's a no.
74.5% definite info. | |
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| Reality check. on 21:12 - Feb 26 with 1955 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Reality check. on 21:10 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
If you were a block of flats or part of a high street then yes - but in our case it's a no.
74.5% definite info. |
Glad to see you appreciate the flaw in your original statement.
There will be value on the books attributed to our long leasehold interest, but personally I'm pleased that we don't own the freehold interest in the land. | |
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| Reality check. on 21:13 - Feb 26 with 1954 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reality check. on 20:54 - Feb 26 by Jermynblue |
Personally I would be doubtful that the new owners will be expecting to plough £100M into the club over a number of years to cover operating losses and the net cash outflow in the same way that ME has. We will have been sold before then or gone into administration. In addition the pension fund will be expecting to get its cash back in the same way that Aviva (I think it was) wanted to get its cash back that it loaned to us for the stands. I too am not familiar with the funding model for the acquisition of league one clubs when they are not being purchased by a wealthy individual using his / her own money to purchase the club and fund the operations. However, it takes a brave pension fund manager to loan a large amount of money to a business that has made significant operating losses over many years and with no obvious security available to secure the loan (unless their security is future season ticket sales over many years). Interest rates will be higher but they will want the repayment of the loan. Even if we get into the Championship our profitability will not improve and in fact many clubs in that division make bigger loses than we do. We are definitely sacrificing our long term security here and given our luck in recent years it probably won't work out for us. I am definitely glass half empty tonight, but hope I am wrong. |
"Personally I would be doubtful that the new owners will be expecting to plough £100M into the club over a number of years to cover operating losses and the net cash outflow in the same way that ME has. We will have been sold before then or gone into administration"
The latter is the most likely situation at this present time.
Please don't get me wrong, I am excited about all this but I'm an old growler who's been burnt many times. | |
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| Reality check. on 21:17 - Feb 26 with 1936 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reality check. on 21:12 - Feb 26 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Glad to see you appreciate the flaw in your original statement.
There will be value on the books attributed to our long leasehold interest, but personally I'm pleased that we don't own the freehold interest in the land. |
I'm also pleased that we don't hold the freehold. I like the fact that we are an old fashioned centre of town club rather than a lego bowl.
Gotta say that I think your first line is rather condescending.
I'm not a complete idiot. | |
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| Reality check. on 21:18 - Feb 26 with 1929 views | pointofblue |
| Reality check. on 20:39 - Feb 26 by hype313 |
I think the frustration, for me anyway, is that he has clearly lost the appetite to run us properly, he is keeping us on life support, but that's about it.
He's certainly not the devil, but he's not exactly pushing us forward, and his dithering over Lambert has been so detrimental to us.
I just want to go to the pub. |
Using that analogy, the life support is about and we're going to breathe on our own again. Will we slowly regain our strength or gradually stop breathing? Both are possibilities.
The ceiling is potentially higher with this takeover but the floor is lower. |  |
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| Reality check. on 21:19 - Feb 26 with 1930 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Reality check. on 21:17 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I'm also pleased that we don't hold the freehold. I like the fact that we are an old fashioned centre of town club rather than a lego bowl.
Gotta say that I think your first line is rather condescending.
I'm not a complete idiot. |
Apologies, my bad.
I think we are on the same page.
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| Reality check. on 21:21 - Feb 26 with 1927 views | dirtyboy |
The one thing I think about Evan’s is that he’s a proud man, he’ll not want to walk away as a failure.
There’s a few twists and turns to come as yet I reckon.
Personally not keen on been a pension fund investment. |  | | |
| Reality check. on 21:28 - Feb 26 with 1920 views | Guthrum |
| Reality check. on 21:04 - Feb 26 by itfcjoe |
Yep, he could have saved millions over the last few years by just trusting someone to run it
HJe's not been a deliberately bad owner, or one with nefarious ideas - but he's been rubbish for us sadly |
Problem is, "trusting somebody run things" is anathema to a lot of entrepreneurs. They have built the business up from nothing through their hard work and ability, now they're having to hand the baby over to someone else to take care of.
It can trash businesses. They don't necessarily have the skillset to cope with expansion beyond a certain level. If there is a fear of delegation too, then they are trapped in a hell where the furiously micromanaging boss simply doesn't have time to pay attention to everything.
I also think it is rarer nowadays to find the football manager who can deal equally well with the coaching, recruitment and admin sides of heading a League-level club. So there's no one person the owner can delegate to. |  |
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| Reality check. on 21:37 - Feb 26 with 1903 views | Guthrum |
| Reality check. on 21:13 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
"Personally I would be doubtful that the new owners will be expecting to plough £100M into the club over a number of years to cover operating losses and the net cash outflow in the same way that ME has. We will have been sold before then or gone into administration"
The latter is the most likely situation at this present time.
Please don't get me wrong, I am excited about all this but I'm an old growler who's been burnt many times. |
One thing which gives me a bit of hope is the fact that Johnson and some of the others have a record of investment in sports clubs, including football. This unlike Evans when he first arrived. May avoid some of the mistakes which set us so much on the back foot in the opening years of the present regime. | |
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| Reality check. on 21:48 - Feb 26 with 1891 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reality check. on 21:28 - Feb 26 by Guthrum |
Problem is, "trusting somebody run things" is anathema to a lot of entrepreneurs. They have built the business up from nothing through their hard work and ability, now they're having to hand the baby over to someone else to take care of.
It can trash businesses. They don't necessarily have the skillset to cope with expansion beyond a certain level. If there is a fear of delegation too, then they are trapped in a hell where the furiously micromanaging boss simply doesn't have time to pay attention to everything.
I also think it is rarer nowadays to find the football manager who can deal equally well with the coaching, recruitment and admin sides of heading a League-level club. So there's no one person the owner can delegate to. |
That's quite interesting actually and at the risk of talking sh1te
I haven't evolved into the bigger stage for many reasons (and I'm not saying in any way I could if I tried).
I find it impossible to think that people can do what I do, even though they could probably do it better. It's a mental thing.
I suppose I don't really want to be a Richard Branson either (not that I could be).
All i really want is to be the best at my game but most importantly - I've always said to myself, as long as my loved ones are comfortable and I can afford to get my car fixed then that's all I need. | |
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| Reality check. on 22:02 - Feb 26 with 1865 views | DerryfromBury |
| Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 by WD19 |
If and when Evans sells I think he will be conscious of who is selling to.....partly because it reflects on him and partly because I do genuinely think he thinks of himself as a bit of a 'custodian' of the club.
If and when any pension fund sells something they will do so to the highest bidder in the quickest possible time.
NET: I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage. |
I think that would be the best bet all round. Consortiums never work out well. if their business plan is based on getting us back into the prem and then shifting us on at a profit, this will take many £millions without any guarantees (look at Derby to mention just one club).
Get Cook in now on a temp contract until the season end with a massive bonus to take us up. |  | | |
| Reality check. on 22:02 - Feb 26 with 1864 views | Bluespeed225 |
| Reality check. on 20:49 - Feb 26 by bluefunk |
The only assets we have are future season ticket receipts, and whatever bit of the training ground Marcus includes in the deal. It seems to me this deal is predicated on increasing revenue streams, as per previous deals they appear to have done, there will also be a reset to the wage bill coming in the summer with so many out of contract players.
They also appear to be following the Man City model and so we can look forward to loaning players from overseas clubs, so the outgoings appear on whichever balance sheet suits them best
And re the Pension fund, its most likely to be in the form of a Corporate Bond, ie money they loan the Company for a fixed return, rather than a direct investment in the football club |
He’s moved the bit of the trading ground across the road from the main buildings into ‘Marcus Evans Gurnsey’, so it’s not included in any deal. East Suffolk council waiting patiently to build more houses on Ipswich boundary..... | | | |
| Reality check. on 22:11 - Feb 26 with 1849 views | Terra_Farma |
| Reality check. on 20:26 - Feb 26 by BrianTablet |
What's the worst that can happen?
If it all goes t*ts up then we will reform as Ipswich FC 2.0, under fan ownership, get some credibility back, have positive vibes, work our way up the leagues. Although, in the current circumstances, we wouldn't even drop that far.
Or we relocate to Mars and win the Martian Premier League every season?
BCWYWF is b*ll*cks - Better to wish than to accept badly-managed dross.
Up The Agricultural Mechanicals! |
100%
We need a leap of faith right now. | | | |
| Reality check. on 22:14 - Feb 26 with 1838 views | JakeITFC |
| Reality check. on 20:25 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
The flip only really works when we are in the Prem. |
Not necessarily - a club like us back in the Championship with a lot of the off field structural issues sorted is a markedly better proposition than the current state. Arguably both of those things can be achieved without masses of time or money.
Guess it’s like buying a plot of land, getting some planning permission and selling it on for someone else to actually build on it. |  | | |
| Reality check. on 22:16 - Feb 26 with 1828 views | SomethingBlue |
| Reality check. on 21:37 - Feb 26 by Guthrum |
One thing which gives me a bit of hope is the fact that Johnson and some of the others have a record of investment in sports clubs, including football. This unlike Evans when he first arrived. May avoid some of the mistakes which set us so much on the back foot in the opening years of the present regime. |
And they have done well with their other clubs, albeit in contexts a little different to ours. They are very well connected and aren't idiots. It's more than just a few equity guys fancying playing ball. [Post edited 26 Feb 2021 22:17]
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| Reality check. on 22:32 - Feb 26 with 1801 views | Guthrum |
| Reality check. on 21:48 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
That's quite interesting actually and at the risk of talking sh1te
I haven't evolved into the bigger stage for many reasons (and I'm not saying in any way I could if I tried).
I find it impossible to think that people can do what I do, even though they could probably do it better. It's a mental thing.
I suppose I don't really want to be a Richard Branson either (not that I could be).
All i really want is to be the best at my game but most importantly - I've always said to myself, as long as my loved ones are comfortable and I can afford to get my car fixed then that's all I need. |
Same here, to an extent. Just hit a ceiling and wary of trusting my customers (and the relationships I've built) to someone else unsupervised. Even tho there are plenty better decorators than I am. | |
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| Reality check. on 22:34 - Feb 26 with 1796 views | davblue |
| Reality check. on 20:25 - Feb 26 by Tangledupin_Blue |
We could do a lot worse than Evans. While he is owner of the club there are safeguards in place regarding the huge debt. He has made some poor decisions but I don't doubt that he cares about the club.
Better the devil you know? |
He’s run the club into the ground off the pitch and not far from it on it either.
He’s been a bad owner but a stable one who hasn’t turned us into a circus although this season hasn’t been far off it at times. |  | | |
| Reality check. on 22:39 - Feb 26 with 1787 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Reality check. on 22:32 - Feb 26 by Guthrum |
Same here, to an extent. Just hit a ceiling and wary of trusting my customers (and the relationships I've built) to someone else unsupervised. Even tho there are plenty better decorators than I am. |
Yes.
I've heard you are a bit of a splosher. | |
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| Reality check. on 22:46 - Feb 26 with 1771 views | RegencyBlue |
| Reality check. on 21:37 - Feb 26 by Guthrum |
One thing which gives me a bit of hope is the fact that Johnson and some of the others have a record of investment in sports clubs, including football. This unlike Evans when he first arrived. May avoid some of the mistakes which set us so much on the back foot in the opening years of the present regime. |
Much of Evans problem here is that off the pitch he never brought in people who knew football and had a proven track record in running a club successfully. We ended up with Clegg who obviously wasn’t employed for any other reason than to enable Evans to get his hands on London 2012 tickets! |  | | |
| Reality check. on 09:54 - Feb 27 with 1645 views | wkj |
| Reality check. on 20:21 - Feb 26 by WD19 |
If and when Evans sells I think he will be conscious of who is selling to.....partly because it reflects on him and partly because I do genuinely think he thinks of himself as a bit of a 'custodian' of the club.
If and when any pension fund sells something they will do so to the highest bidder in the quickest possible time.
NET: I would much prefer Evans to just hire a proper CEO and Paul Cook as manager and be done with it.......but given how toxic Evans is with many fans I suspect I am in a minority and most just want to roll the dice at this stage. |
I'm not toxic with Evans, what gives you that idea? |  |
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| Reality check. on 10:03 - Feb 27 with 1629 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Reality check. on 21:17 - Feb 26 by Lord_Lucan |
I'm also pleased that we don't hold the freehold. I like the fact that we are an old fashioned centre of town club rather than a lego bowl.
Gotta say that I think your first line is rather condescending.
I'm not a complete idiot. |
Only a 74.5% idiot? :-) |  |
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