| How long does Cook get? 08:20 - Apr 14 with 13856 views | Bluefish |
I think I will be viewed as an early adopter to the uselessness of Lambert. I refused to buy in to the free hit nonsense for a club 5 points adrift in October, the warning signs were there very early for Lambert being a fraud. I did however question him and the adulation for him without calling for his head straightaway. The earliest that the calls to sack him were March time, that is 5 months on and even then it was more questions and acknowledging failure than demanding his sacking. During that spell he had a complete transfer window albeit the trickier January one but he was definitely financially backed.
What does any of this history mean? Cook has been a disaster so far, the inability to turn things round on the pitch and the struggle to either impose his own shape and strategy or find one that suits our current crop is very worrying. There are no excuses for how far away we are at the moment on the pitch, we have a squad plenty big enough to find a side that competes on the pitch, at the moment 0 shots on target is mot competing.
I think Cook was asked early on how long he needs and his response was 1 transfer window. It is bold but positive and with the start he has had that is definitely right. You need to earn credit as a manager and he has used his up with this start without earning any extra. The summer will be a fresh start but the backing he will get coupled with the better window means he needs to not carry over anything, we have to hit the ground running to build some credit and then it has to be maintained.
I'm not Cook Out but I'm also not giving free hits, the start is a blemish so the pressure should start |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:47 - Apr 14 with 1872 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:46 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
Seems a bit OTT to me, if the players aren't fit it isn't really their fault as they have been conditioned for a style of play - it's not their fault it has changed. You'd presume they are capable of being fitter, but impossible to do so at this moment.
I appreciate that he needs his gardening leave, but getting Ashton across ASAP is the key, because we need someone getting everything in place as can't just hand all responsibility over to Cook |
Hang on, it's not the players fault if they aren't fit
wtf Joe |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:48 - Apr 14 with 1867 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:26 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
There's barely anyone on this thread who thinks he deserves past January next season - I wonder what they would be saying if we were currently 4th/5th and had picked up 15-16 points out of 10 games?
There seems to have been a complete capitulation, and the team selection last night was baffling to me - for what was defined as a season defining game.
I struggle to square the circle that the previous manager was massively underperforming (which I believe that he was) with the fact now that this is all on the players and not Cook.
To be blunt, we aren't getting the fundamentals right - our set pieces are woeful, defensively we seem in some sort of hybrid between zonal and man that no one seems to understand. There is absolutely nothing going forwards, no patterns of play at all. Just real basic stuff that isn't happening. I'm amazed at how poor we've become and there's no way his first priority this season wasn't to get us into the play offs.
He's obviously got a great record, and will be judged on what he achieves next year, but for the life of me I can't work out what he is doing at the moment. |
I must be going mad.
Paul Cook plays 4231. He came in played that and the players we have do not fit his style of football one bit. Not even close, they couldn’t play it. So he went to two up front and we are seeing passes going astray aimless crosses in to the box and still no goals. The game against MK. We had 3 good chances and Drinan and Sears squandered them. What more can he do. He has tried everything. Paul Lambert was a serial fail, at every club since Norwich. It is no surprise that a manager who succeeds everywhere he goes isn’t doing well here. It is because the players cannot even get close to what he wants. He simplified it by playing 442. Idk what more the man can do.
This forum is going mental. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:56 - Apr 14 with 1849 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:47 - Apr 14 by chrismakin |
Hang on, it's not the players fault if they aren't fit
wtf Joe |
They are conditioned by the fitness coach to play the style they want - they can't go and do their own thing.
They were presumably regularly tested throughout the season prior to Cook's arrival and where were they needed to be - that where they need to be has changed isn't their issue. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:56 - Apr 14 with 1854 views | PhilTWTD |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:46 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
Seems a bit OTT to me, if the players aren't fit it isn't really their fault as they have been conditioned for a style of play - it's not their fault it has changed. You'd presume they are capable of being fitter, but impossible to do so at this moment.
I appreciate that he needs his gardening leave, but getting Ashton across ASAP is the key, because we need someone getting everything in place as can't just hand all responsibility over to Cook |
I think PC has been surprised at the lack of conditioning and inability to adapt to what he's wanted them to do. He's had a look at almost everyone now to try and find an XI which is able to do what he wants them to do, and they evidently can't do it.
On top of that there is such a soft underbelly, a losing mentality has been instilled over the last three seasons that I don't think can be shifted without a total overhaul of the squad. Even before the arrival of the American cash that was PC's plan I think, and with the new money I think it'll probably be even deeper. Squad will be unrecognisable on the first day of the new season.
Think O'Leary will effectively be chief exec until Ashton comes in, think he said as much last week. |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:57 - Apr 14 with 1838 views | Churchman |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:26 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
There's barely anyone on this thread who thinks he deserves past January next season - I wonder what they would be saying if we were currently 4th/5th and had picked up 15-16 points out of 10 games?
There seems to have been a complete capitulation, and the team selection last night was baffling to me - for what was defined as a season defining game.
I struggle to square the circle that the previous manager was massively underperforming (which I believe that he was) with the fact now that this is all on the players and not Cook.
To be blunt, we aren't getting the fundamentals right - our set pieces are woeful, defensively we seem in some sort of hybrid between zonal and man that no one seems to understand. There is absolutely nothing going forwards, no patterns of play at all. Just real basic stuff that isn't happening. I'm amazed at how poor we've become and there's no way his first priority this season wasn't to get us into the play offs.
He's obviously got a great record, and will be judged on what he achieves next year, but for the life of me I can't work out what he is doing at the moment. |
You say ‘how poor we’ve become’. That implies we weren’t poor before. Seriously? How many times have we beaten a top ten team in two years? How many times have these people put in a 90 minute performance in two years? One or twice and that’d be generous.
Even harking back to our magnificent run of three games that some people are getting all misty eyed over, we were given the runaround by 10 men. The myth that he and Gill were ‘getting a tune’ out of the team is just that. Cook didn't walk through the door and do anything before the three game team of the year were beaten out of sight the following Saturday at Gillingham.
Yes they are under performing under Lambert for two and a half years and are now. I had hoped the players would take some responsibility, have a shred of professional pride and thought for their own careers, but no. That was beyond them. But this is Lamberts team, not Cook’s. It’s his epic mess.
I don’t expect a miracle next season. It’s going to take time. What I expect is that we can see a team emerging, some sort of pattern and change for the better on and off the field including attitude. It will be clear quite quickly. Cook gets my support for now. It’s not a free hit, it’s just a way forward after years of neglect, poor decision making and a grossly incompetent owner who despite the words, in my view never gave a toss about the club other than the effect on his wretched portfolio. |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:59 - Apr 14 with 1817 views | tractorboy1978 |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:56 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
They are conditioned by the fitness coach to play the style they want - they can't go and do their own thing.
They were presumably regularly tested throughout the season prior to Cook's arrival and where were they needed to be - that where they need to be has changed isn't their issue. |
What fitness coach? |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:00 - Apr 14 with 1815 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:56 - Apr 14 by PhilTWTD |
I think PC has been surprised at the lack of conditioning and inability to adapt to what he's wanted them to do. He's had a look at almost everyone now to try and find an XI which is able to do what he wants them to do, and they evidently can't do it.
On top of that there is such a soft underbelly, a losing mentality has been instilled over the last three seasons that I don't think can be shifted without a total overhaul of the squad. Even before the arrival of the American cash that was PC's plan I think, and with the new money I think it'll probably be even deeper. Squad will be unrecognisable on the first day of the new season.
Think O'Leary will effectively be chief exec until Ashton comes in, think he said as much last week. |
I'm expecting 20+ out and 10 in, think everyone is and always was. The club was due an overhaul and will be an interesting summer .
I just really hope there is a coherent thought behind it all - i.e. we don't allow Cook to bring in 7 or 8 of 'his' men to the staff etc and we still function like a small club.
Everything has to go bigger and think bigger. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:02 - Apr 14 with 1804 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:00 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
I'm expecting 20+ out and 10 in, think everyone is and always was. The club was due an overhaul and will be an interesting summer .
I just really hope there is a coherent thought behind it all - i.e. we don't allow Cook to bring in 7 or 8 of 'his' men to the staff etc and we still function like a small club.
Everything has to go bigger and think bigger. |
Why would PC not bring in his men?
The club needs a rebuild from players to staff. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:04 - Apr 14 with 1807 views | PhilTWTD |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:00 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
I'm expecting 20+ out and 10 in, think everyone is and always was. The club was due an overhaul and will be an interesting summer .
I just really hope there is a coherent thought behind it all - i.e. we don't allow Cook to bring in 7 or 8 of 'his' men to the staff etc and we still function like a small club.
Everything has to go bigger and think bigger. |
Definitely in those regions, even more in than that assuming they can get contracted people out. He's already said he wants a more sensibly-sized squad so something like 20/22 senior players plus U23s augmenting that. | | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:06 - Apr 14 with 1785 views | jayessess |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:57 - Apr 14 by Churchman |
You say ‘how poor we’ve become’. That implies we weren’t poor before. Seriously? How many times have we beaten a top ten team in two years? How many times have these people put in a 90 minute performance in two years? One or twice and that’d be generous.
Even harking back to our magnificent run of three games that some people are getting all misty eyed over, we were given the runaround by 10 men. The myth that he and Gill were ‘getting a tune’ out of the team is just that. Cook didn't walk through the door and do anything before the three game team of the year were beaten out of sight the following Saturday at Gillingham.
Yes they are under performing under Lambert for two and a half years and are now. I had hoped the players would take some responsibility, have a shred of professional pride and thought for their own careers, but no. That was beyond them. But this is Lamberts team, not Cook’s. It’s his epic mess.
I don’t expect a miracle next season. It’s going to take time. What I expect is that we can see a team emerging, some sort of pattern and change for the better on and off the field including attitude. It will be clear quite quickly. Cook gets my support for now. It’s not a free hit, it’s just a way forward after years of neglect, poor decision making and a grossly incompetent owner who despite the words, in my view never gave a toss about the club other than the effect on his wretched portfolio. |
We were pretty comfortably winning games against the bottom half for much of this season, which we aren't now. That's a deterioration, isn't it? |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:07 - Apr 14 with 1781 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:06 - Apr 14 by jayessess |
We were pretty comfortably winning games against the bottom half for much of this season, which we aren't now. That's a deterioration, isn't it? |
we've barely won any of our games comfortably. so no
The season of winning effectively ended by end October. since then it's been sht | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:11 - Apr 14 with 1774 views | Churchman |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:00 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
I'm expecting 20+ out and 10 in, think everyone is and always was. The club was due an overhaul and will be an interesting summer .
I just really hope there is a coherent thought behind it all - i.e. we don't allow Cook to bring in 7 or 8 of 'his' men to the staff etc and we still function like a small club.
Everything has to go bigger and think bigger. |
I agree with that. If Cook wants his assistant and he wants to leave Wigan, fine. Other people, fine but as you say, it all has to be coherent. I suppose that where the CEO comes in. All elements of the club need to be pointing the same way from the owners to the work in the community. It’s exciting. | | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:14 - Apr 14 with 1760 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:56 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
They are conditioned by the fitness coach to play the style they want - they can't go and do their own thing.
They were presumably regularly tested throughout the season prior to Cook's arrival and where were they needed to be - that where they need to be has changed isn't their issue. |
" that where they need to be has changed isn't their issue"
Sorry I don't see it like that and if that has been the players' attitude then that goes some way to explaining the abject performances. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:15 - Apr 14 with 1754 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:14 - Apr 14 by You_Bloo_Right |
" that where they need to be has changed isn't their issue"
Sorry I don't see it like that and if that has been the players' attitude then that goes some way to explaining the abject performances. |
" i want you to run here"
"woahhhhhhhhhhhhh hang on, I've been conditioned to stay in the centre circle" | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:21 - Apr 14 with 1738 views | Herbivore |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:06 - Apr 14 by jayessess |
We were pretty comfortably winning games against the bottom half for much of this season, which we aren't now. That's a deterioration, isn't it? |
This calendar year we've drawn with and lost to Northampton and Swindon at home under Lambert. We did manage to limp to a win over Burton though before their purple patch. We've been dire for ages, the three narrow wins at the point at which Lambert left and Cook arrived have helped to obscure that somewhat, but things have been abject pretty much since our opening 6 games. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:24 - Apr 14 with 1724 views | ArnieM |
"How long do we give Paul Cook "? What a pathetic question to even ask, when he's clearly been brought in for next season and beyond, when he's started to assemble his own squad.
But of you want a number ....how about FIVE YEARS......the same time span McCarthy had |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:32 - Apr 14 with 1713 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:14 - Apr 14 by You_Bloo_Right |
" that where they need to be has changed isn't their issue"
Sorry I don't see it like that and if that has been the players' attitude then that goes some way to explaining the abject performances. |
It's horses for courses, players are conditioned to play the style they are inteded to play - if we aren't set up as a high pressing team then you don't waste energy training them to be capable of doing so | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:44 - Apr 14 with 1689 views | Herbivore |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:24 - Apr 14 by ArnieM |
"How long do we give Paul Cook "? What a pathetic question to even ask, when he's clearly been brought in for next season and beyond, when he's started to assemble his own squad.
But of you want a number ....how about FIVE YEARS......the same time span McCarthy had |
He'd need to earn a 5 year stay by consistently performing at or above expectations, much like Mick did. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:52 - Apr 14 with 1669 views | southnorfolkblue |
| How long does Cook get? on 08:34 - Apr 14 by Bluefish |
Lol
If the players aren't trying then it is the managers job to not kick them. We had 24 training this week without a single youth player included
Giving someone a free ride until Christmas is madness. If the current levels continue you the season will be destroyed |
There’s a difference between giving him a free ride and allowing him some time to unravel the mess that he’s inherited. Just look at Blackpool, who effectively rebuilt their team over the summer. They looked a shambles earlier in the season but have gelled as the season has gone on. I’d hope for something similar. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 12:52 - Apr 14 with 1667 views | haynes_toe1 |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:24 - Apr 14 by ArnieM |
"How long do we give Paul Cook "? What a pathetic question to even ask, when he's clearly been brought in for next season and beyond, when he's started to assemble his own squad.
But of you want a number ....how about FIVE YEARS......the same time span McCarthy had |
Mick delivered instant results which instantly bought him sufficient credit with the fans. Cook hasn't. That's the start-point.
From then onwards, he'll only get the time Mick had if he over-delivers season after season. So far it's been significant under-delivering. | | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 13:00 - Apr 14 with 1654 views | bluefunk |
| How long does Cook get? on 10:30 - Apr 14 by reusersfreekicks |
There is a difference between a turn around and a deterioration |
We are one place below where we were when Cook was appointed and one point further off the playoffs. It isn’t much of a deterioration, certainly not enough for the kind of blame Cook is getting (some of it implied admittedly) |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 13:05 - Apr 14 with 1645 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 12:52 - Apr 14 by haynes_toe1 |
Mick delivered instant results which instantly bought him sufficient credit with the fans. Cook hasn't. That's the start-point.
From then onwards, he'll only get the time Mick had if he over-delivers season after season. So far it's been significant under-delivering. |
Erm, Mick brought in some of his own players. Cook hasn't had that chance | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 13:15 - Apr 14 with 1629 views | BlueNode |
How much does a new squad cost these days... assuming we will not be shopping entirely bargain basement for them? |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 13:18 - Apr 14 with 1623 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 13:15 - Apr 14 by BlueNode |
How much does a new squad cost these days... assuming we will not be shopping entirely bargain basement for them? |
Wont need to spend on fees in league 1 really
so looking at wages, which we will be competitive with, | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 13:20 - Apr 14 with 1616 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:15 - Apr 14 by LankHenners |
Was thinking the same - I think most are just about happy enough to accept there’s a couple of fairly major caveats for Cook’s time here so far but that it’s been so bad has meant he’s put pressure on himself to get next season bang on. It’s fine to say the players are the problem but if he gets rid of most of them and replaces them then the spotlight is firmly on him. |
But even that requires him to get it right first time with his acquisitions.
I think people expect miracles. I feel like I'm a dying breed in that I still want managers to be given time - and with so much surgery required to this squad, Cook needs at least two windows.
Sadly, I don't think today's insta generation will give him that much time. I fact the posts I'm reading on here after just 10 games and no windows, prove that. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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