| How long does Cook get? 08:20 - Apr 14 with 13852 views | Bluefish |
I think I will be viewed as an early adopter to the uselessness of Lambert. I refused to buy in to the free hit nonsense for a club 5 points adrift in October, the warning signs were there very early for Lambert being a fraud. I did however question him and the adulation for him without calling for his head straightaway. The earliest that the calls to sack him were March time, that is 5 months on and even then it was more questions and acknowledging failure than demanding his sacking. During that spell he had a complete transfer window albeit the trickier January one but he was definitely financially backed.
What does any of this history mean? Cook has been a disaster so far, the inability to turn things round on the pitch and the struggle to either impose his own shape and strategy or find one that suits our current crop is very worrying. There are no excuses for how far away we are at the moment on the pitch, we have a squad plenty big enough to find a side that competes on the pitch, at the moment 0 shots on target is mot competing.
I think Cook was asked early on how long he needs and his response was 1 transfer window. It is bold but positive and with the start he has had that is definitely right. You need to earn credit as a manager and he has used his up with this start without earning any extra. The summer will be a fresh start but the backing he will get coupled with the better window means he needs to not carry over anything, we have to hit the ground running to build some credit and then it has to be maintained.
I'm not Cook Out but I'm also not giving free hits, the start is a blemish so the pressure should start |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 09:34 - Apr 14 with 1283 views | haynes_toe1 |
Cook gets the summer window and in the first couple of months next season, even if results are sporadic, we should be able to see huge improvements on the pitch.
If not, let's avoid being little Ipswich and everyone finding excuses to back the manager like they did with Lambert to cringeworthy and damaging effect, and move on and find someone else. |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 09:35 - Apr 14 with 1285 views | Kieran_Knows |
I think it's going to be an interesting summer, and I don't think people quite realise the turn around of players (and staff) that will happen.
Let's see. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 09:37 - Apr 14 with 1267 views | clive_baker |
15 games into next season |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 09:38 - Apr 14 with 1269 views | You_Bloo_Right |
Well the player "reset" that should have happened when we were first relegated looks to be on the cards this summer - two years late but heigh ho.
Unfortunately the two year hiatus has made that reset a tougher ask. The sheer size of the squad would be a problem even if all the members of it were performing well. It seems clear that there are elements of the squad who are having a negative impact on the remainder.
So part of the task is to reduce the squad size, remove the rotten elements and rebuild the confidence of the players we want and need to retain. We should also expect Cook to add players to the squad (and everyone has their own views on this - new keeper, full backs, defensive midfielder, wide players, strikers).
How long you are prepared to give Cook depends on how long you think it takes to perform the required surgery on the squad, whether you think that equates to minor surgery or a procedure Victor Frankenstein might baulk at (or some point between those extremes), and, surgery over, how long you think it takes for the patient to recover and the team to "gel".
Even if more and significant funds are made available for player acquisition (in terms of transfer fees and/or wages) unfortunately I see this process taking more than one transfer window and probably more than two. That doesn't mean we shouldn't see improvement in that time.
Given the way our current players have performed over the last two and a half years or so under various managers they have zero credit as far as I am concerned (unfair on some undoubtedly). I am therefore prepared to give Cook, as a manager with a good track record whose levels of anger and frustration at recent performances is close to my own, as long as he wants but admit will be disappointed if we are still in this division in 2023.
There, that's a long way of saying "a couple of years".
I don't think any "pressure" we as fans may apply would add significantly to the pressure Cook already feels nor that he doubtless will be placed under should the team's performance not match the new owners' expectations. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 09:38 - Apr 14 with 1262 views | clive_baker |
| How long does Cook get? on 09:35 - Apr 14 by Kieran_Knows |
I think it's going to be an interesting summer, and I don't think people quite realise the turn around of players (and staff) that will happen.
Let's see. |
It'll be like nothing we've ever seen before.
Not a day too soon either. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 09:44 - Apr 14 with 1244 views | BseaBlue |
| How long does Cook get? on 09:35 - Apr 14 by Kieran_Knows |
I think it's going to be an interesting summer, and I don't think people quite realise the turn around of players (and staff) that will happen.
Let's see. |
Fingers crossed! Does that not mean that Cook deserves a bit longer to get everything to gel? I would say so but can see the point about giving managers too long.
I still like to think we are different to the trigger culture some clubs have but then that hasn't done us any good over the last few years has it! |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 09:48 - Apr 14 with 1231 views | Ely_Blue |
| How long does Cook get? on 08:53 - Apr 14 by Churchman |
A ‘strategy that suits our current crop’. Enlighten me as to what that strategy might be? What formation do you think would suit them? We have poor goalkeepers, no full backs, no midfielders worthy of the name, no pace and forwards who couldn’t hit a cows rear end with a banjo even if the clowns behind gave them any service.
People on this board howling for ‘the Cowley’s’? What would they have done with that lot? Short of chasing them round with an electric cattle prod, nothing. Because the players don’t want to do it and many of them can’t. They were poor last year and poor this. How many games have the vaguely looked like a team in two years? They aren’t fit and are on and off injured. They are disinterested and detached. They are mostly poor players and many have no bottle whatsoever. Garbage. You watch and see how many wind up at Championship clubs. Downes maybe?
This ‘free hit’ phrase is beginning to grate. It is actually the players that have had a free hit at Ipswich Town. For 14 years. If they’re the shambles they are now at Christmas, I’ll join in giving Cook pelters. Once upon a time, a manager was given three years. Our supporters now think three minutes is more than enough. Give the bloke time to shovel the lot out of the door and build a team. He’s our best lower league managerial option. |
This sums things up perfectly, well said that man |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 09:58 - Apr 14 with 1219 views | clive_baker |
| How long does Cook get? on 09:44 - Apr 14 by BseaBlue |
Fingers crossed! Does that not mean that Cook deserves a bit longer to get everything to gel? I would say so but can see the point about giving managers too long.
I still like to think we are different to the trigger culture some clubs have but then that hasn't done us any good over the last few years has it! |
The way I see it is there are reasons to believe Cook is a good manager, he's got a good and recent track record at more than 1 club, I like the things he's saying and observing, and he seems likeable, which is a refreshing change. You don't become a bad manager overnight, and there comes a point where you have to say maybe the manager isn't the problem. Everything about our squad is stale and needs a complete shake up. In their own right we have some good players, who might excel elsewhere, but there's an acceptance of mediocrity at the club that's deep engrained in these players and we need a very obvious and material shift that can only be achieved through some really tough decisions, and some big changes on and off the pitch.
We're lucky to have so many out of contract and we can move them on for free and we have to trust that Cook is as well placed a manager as we're likely to attract in achieving that.
For me we need to fully support him in this project and take stock 15 games into next season. If I were a betting man I would say things will look a lot better by then. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 10:08 - Apr 14 with 1202 views | J2BLUE |
| How long does Cook get? on 08:23 - Apr 14 by Dubtractor |
We need to give him the summer and half of next season IMO.
Not good enough so far though, as per the thread I have just posted. |
This.
I think this is a fair timescale for the new Ipswich. Evans gave managers far too long. I don't want to see us go through five managers in three years or anything but I think a summer window, pre season and until January is enough time.
I'd like it on record that I trust Cook 100% and think he'll be well clear of any danger by January. I really fancy us next season. Proper backing, a decent manager with his own squad and hopefully losing Sunderland via the play offs. We'll still have Charlton, Sheff Wed and Portsmouth to deal with but with quality signings I think we'll make it. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 10:30 - Apr 14 with 1180 views | reusersfreekicks |
| How long does Cook get? on 08:54 - Apr 14 by bluefunk |
You did say there are no excuses for where we at the moment, ie 10 games into Cook’s reign, which kind of does say you expected him to engineer a 10 game turnaround |
There is a difference between a turn around and a deterioration |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 10:39 - Apr 14 with 1167 views | Kropotkin123 |
| How long does Cook get? on 10:30 - Apr 14 by reusersfreekicks |
There is a difference between a turn around and a deterioration |
It would be a real shame if we lost a manager with a proven track record of promotion and good football, just because the current bunch of lazy, stubborn and self-centred players have downed tools because they know there is no chance of them being here next season.
The deterioration may be on PC, but the reasoning is sound. He demands a standard of play and professionalism that they aren't capable of meeting. That is on them, not the manager.
Think people need to calm their criticism of PC for now. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:09 - Apr 14 with 1155 views | itfcjoe |
The problem this start brings is that it eats up some of the credit he has - even now on this thread people are talking about him having half a season to get it right.
If he'd have pushed us on to the play offs or close, had his overhaul that credit in the bank would be vital - because it's difficult to suggest he is going to lose 25 players this summer, sign 10 and get all that done for pre season to hit the ground running on Day 1 next year.
I wonder if anything happens with new ownership over the summer - will he even be here next season - nothing is off the table |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:15 - Apr 14 with 1134 views | clive_baker |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:09 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
The problem this start brings is that it eats up some of the credit he has - even now on this thread people are talking about him having half a season to get it right.
If he'd have pushed us on to the play offs or close, had his overhaul that credit in the bank would be vital - because it's difficult to suggest he is going to lose 25 players this summer, sign 10 and get all that done for pre season to hit the ground running on Day 1 next year.
I wonder if anything happens with new ownership over the summer - will he even be here next season - nothing is off the table |
This is the concern for me too. In hindsight he joined a year too late, but arguably also 2 months too early. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:15 - Apr 14 with 1131 views | LankHenners |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:09 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
The problem this start brings is that it eats up some of the credit he has - even now on this thread people are talking about him having half a season to get it right.
If he'd have pushed us on to the play offs or close, had his overhaul that credit in the bank would be vital - because it's difficult to suggest he is going to lose 25 players this summer, sign 10 and get all that done for pre season to hit the ground running on Day 1 next year.
I wonder if anything happens with new ownership over the summer - will he even be here next season - nothing is off the table |
Was thinking the same - I think most are just about happy enough to accept there’s a couple of fairly major caveats for Cook’s time here so far but that it’s been so bad has meant he’s put pressure on himself to get next season bang on. It’s fine to say the players are the problem but if he gets rid of most of them and replaces them then the spotlight is firmly on him. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:20 - Apr 14 with 1118 views | MrTown |
A transfer window and a pre season. To judge any earlier than that would be very very silly. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:22 - Apr 14 with 1116 views | Kieran_Knows |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:09 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
The problem this start brings is that it eats up some of the credit he has - even now on this thread people are talking about him having half a season to get it right.
If he'd have pushed us on to the play offs or close, had his overhaul that credit in the bank would be vital - because it's difficult to suggest he is going to lose 25 players this summer, sign 10 and get all that done for pre season to hit the ground running on Day 1 next year.
I wonder if anything happens with new ownership over the summer - will he even be here next season - nothing is off the table |
I absolutely 100% agree with this, but my only question is, what more could he have done?
He's tried his tested formation in 4-2-3-1, the players couldn't be ar*ed to learn how to press from the front. Fine. The fans cried out for 2 upfront, he's done that, and we're now pinning our hopes on a competition winner in Drinan, plus whoever else. I still don't see what formation suits this group? Which harks back to Lambert.
But you're definitely right, he has to get it right this summer, if he is 'supposedly' the new owners number 1 choice also. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:26 - Apr 14 with 1113 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:15 - Apr 14 by clive_baker |
This is the concern for me too. In hindsight he joined a year too late, but arguably also 2 months too early. |
There's barely anyone on this thread who thinks he deserves past January next season - I wonder what they would be saying if we were currently 4th/5th and had picked up 15-16 points out of 10 games?
There seems to have been a complete capitulation, and the team selection last night was baffling to me - for what was defined as a season defining game.
I struggle to square the circle that the previous manager was massively underperforming (which I believe that he was) with the fact now that this is all on the players and not Cook.
To be blunt, we aren't getting the fundamentals right - our set pieces are woeful, defensively we seem in some sort of hybrid between zonal and man that no one seems to understand. There is absolutely nothing going forwards, no patterns of play at all. Just real basic stuff that isn't happening. I'm amazed at how poor we've become and there's no way his first priority this season wasn't to get us into the play offs.
He's obviously got a great record, and will be judged on what he achieves next year, but for the life of me I can't work out what he is doing at the moment. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:30 - Apr 14 with 1108 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:22 - Apr 14 by Kieran_Knows |
I absolutely 100% agree with this, but my only question is, what more could he have done?
He's tried his tested formation in 4-2-3-1, the players couldn't be ar*ed to learn how to press from the front. Fine. The fans cried out for 2 upfront, he's done that, and we're now pinning our hopes on a competition winner in Drinan, plus whoever else. I still don't see what formation suits this group? Which harks back to Lambert.
But you're definitely right, he has to get it right this summer, if he is 'supposedly' the new owners number 1 choice also. |
We are changing formation 2-3 times in every single game - from 352, to 442, to a diamond, to 4231 - if long term it is going to be 4231 just stick with it or just go a basic 442. How much of a loss is Leam Richardson currently on that side of things?
There is a lot more he could have done - all this talk about fitness is just a massive misnomer for me.........no team at this stage of the season, especially this season, will be doing anything more than just ticking over.
A manager's first job is to try and improve what he has one way or another | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:34 - Apr 14 with 1095 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:26 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
There's barely anyone on this thread who thinks he deserves past January next season - I wonder what they would be saying if we were currently 4th/5th and had picked up 15-16 points out of 10 games?
There seems to have been a complete capitulation, and the team selection last night was baffling to me - for what was defined as a season defining game.
I struggle to square the circle that the previous manager was massively underperforming (which I believe that he was) with the fact now that this is all on the players and not Cook.
To be blunt, we aren't getting the fundamentals right - our set pieces are woeful, defensively we seem in some sort of hybrid between zonal and man that no one seems to understand. There is absolutely nothing going forwards, no patterns of play at all. Just real basic stuff that isn't happening. I'm amazed at how poor we've become and there's no way his first priority this season wasn't to get us into the play offs.
He's obviously got a great record, and will be judged on what he achieves next year, but for the life of me I can't work out what he is doing at the moment. |
"but for the life of me I can't work out what he is doing at the moment."
Imagine how PC feels with it all.
You mention players don't seem to understand.......... that's the problem. they're being asked to do simple things which they struggle to understand
I mentioned it last night, PC is having to coach from the sidelines a hell of a lot, which he shouldn't have to do at this level of football.
I was shocked by the lineup, but likewise, we've struggled to score goals, you'd hope a refresh may provide a bit more attacking threat, but no, made it even worse.
When the manager is trying different things, that's when you know it's the players and not the manager
Look at the facts, our lot can't even complete a proper weeks training under PC, there a no players turning up early, or staying after training, there is 0 effort in giving a flying fk on how this season turns out. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:37 - Apr 14 with 1091 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:34 - Apr 14 by chrismakin |
"but for the life of me I can't work out what he is doing at the moment."
Imagine how PC feels with it all.
You mention players don't seem to understand.......... that's the problem. they're being asked to do simple things which they struggle to understand
I mentioned it last night, PC is having to coach from the sidelines a hell of a lot, which he shouldn't have to do at this level of football.
I was shocked by the lineup, but likewise, we've struggled to score goals, you'd hope a refresh may provide a bit more attacking threat, but no, made it even worse.
When the manager is trying different things, that's when you know it's the players and not the manager
Look at the facts, our lot can't even complete a proper weeks training under PC, there a no players turning up early, or staying after training, there is 0 effort in giving a flying fk on how this season turns out. |
The training thing is such a red herring - the players have played basically every midweek for the last 3 months - this season is a ridiculous schedule and there is no way you can be making players fitter now. He has to go with what he has - they have been conditioned by Lambert's team and that is what he has to work with.
For me when changes are made frequently it indicates a manager not sure of himself, especially when it is frequently in game. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:37 - Apr 14 with 1086 views | chicoazul |
| How long does Cook get? on 08:34 - Apr 14 by Bluefish |
Lol
If the players aren't trying then it is the managers job to not kick them. We had 24 training this week without a single youth player included
Giving someone a free ride until Christmas is madness. If the current levels continue you the season will be destroyed |
Blubbers if nothing else under the new regime I think you can count on nobody getting a free ride or plenty of chances. We’re about to become Watford/Chelsea in that regard. |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:38 - Apr 14 with 1081 views | hype313 |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:37 - Apr 14 by chicoazul |
Blubbers if nothing else under the new regime I think you can count on nobody getting a free ride or plenty of chances. We’re about to become Watford/Chelsea in that regard. |
That's Tim Lovejoy's dream right there.
Cue WSC... |  |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:40 - Apr 14 with 1085 views | PhilTWTD |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:30 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
We are changing formation 2-3 times in every single game - from 352, to 442, to a diamond, to 4231 - if long term it is going to be 4231 just stick with it or just go a basic 442. How much of a loss is Leam Richardson currently on that side of things?
There is a lot more he could have done - all this talk about fitness is just a massive misnomer for me.........no team at this stage of the season, especially this season, will be doing anything more than just ticking over.
A manager's first job is to try and improve what he has one way or another |
People had suggested to me much earlier in the season that the squad is nowhere fit enough and I think that's been highlighted by Cook wanting more of them on that front with his approach than Lambert did with his more pedestrian approach.
Think he feels like he's working with one hand tied behind his back at present, trying to find something which works and it's evidently not worked. I reckon it's probably back to 4-2-3-1 on Saturday the tinkering having shown that the system isn't really the problem.
I expect pretty much everyone to be moved on at the end of the season, including those in contract if they can find somewhere for them to go.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:42 - Apr 14 with 1067 views | chrismakin |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:37 - Apr 14 by itfcjoe |
The training thing is such a red herring - the players have played basically every midweek for the last 3 months - this season is a ridiculous schedule and there is no way you can be making players fitter now. He has to go with what he has - they have been conditioned by Lambert's team and that is what he has to work with.
For me when changes are made frequently it indicates a manager not sure of himself, especially when it is frequently in game. |
He has to make substantial changes in games as we can't get players through 90 minutes of football.
Poor old footballers eh, playing midweek for months, no different to any other clubs.
" they have been conditioned by Lambert's team and that is what he has to work with."
So if PC has taken over a team of unfit, un attacking players, and you say you can't improve their fitness etc......... why so damning on PC then. | |
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| How long does Cook get? on 11:46 - Apr 14 with 1058 views | itfcjoe |
| How long does Cook get? on 11:40 - Apr 14 by PhilTWTD |
People had suggested to me much earlier in the season that the squad is nowhere fit enough and I think that's been highlighted by Cook wanting more of them on that front with his approach than Lambert did with his more pedestrian approach.
Think he feels like he's working with one hand tied behind his back at present, trying to find something which works and it's evidently not worked. I reckon it's probably back to 4-2-3-1 on Saturday the tinkering having shown that the system isn't really the problem.
I expect pretty much everyone to be moved on at the end of the season, including those in contract if they can find somewhere for them to go.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Seems a bit OTT to me, if the players aren't fit it isn't really their fault as they have been conditioned for a style of play - it's not their fault it has changed. You'd presume they are capable of being fitter, but impossible to do so at this moment.
I appreciate that he needs his gardening leave, but getting Ashton across ASAP is the key, because we need someone getting everything in place as can't just hand all responsibility over to Cook | |
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