| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... 15:27 - Jul 7 with 18436 views | ITFCBlues |
Why are we bothering with the academy? Seems pointless if you're letting your best players walk for peanuts. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:06 - Jul 7 with 1678 views | ArnieM |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 16:09 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
WHen you compare them over last 3 seasons, Gibbs is clearly seen as the top prospect. Baggott may have pushed ahead, but even over the back end of this season it's Gibbs that has been pushed on further
As an U16 - 9 league games and 3 goals for U18s at least double anyone else (Baggott 1)
As an u17 - 9 games for 23s, no other had a single one
As an U18 - Only player to start both PJT games in his age group, more U23s games than anyone else including Baggott
He's consistenlty been pushed on, for those to make out he's just another player is wrong |
So given the new regime in place at thisClub now, who are actively signing players via data, and evidence based apparatchiks, do you not think they will have all the data they need to hand regarding Liam Gibbs? And on the assumption that they do have all the data to hand about him, IF he was THAT good, would not have done everything they could to have kept him? ( like they did Baggott)?
….Or alternatively, could it be that this young player ( his agent?), has tried to hold the Club to ransom in some way, and the Club have decided, ok , this is as much as we are prepared to offer your player at this stage in his development? If it’s not good enough, then cheerio?…… |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:07 - Jul 7 with 1672 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:05 - Jul 7 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
Especially when a club as Joe points out, has done everything to progress him as a player as quickly as possible.. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:10 - Jul 7 with 1652 views | jayessess |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:05 - Jul 7 by chrismakin |
Yeah, exactly what i've been saying, we offered him terms, as phil says he declined it over a few hundred. No one knows how much we offered to say in Jayees terms, it wasn't competitive. |
What other logical inference is there from "he wanted to stay" and "the difference was a few hundred quid" other than that someone else was offering more money? |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:11 - Jul 7 with 1649 views | RadioOrwell |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:05 - Jul 7 by BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |
If he wanted to stay he would stay.
The few hundred quid sounds like a smokescreen.
He'll get silly money in the PL and that's the way of the world.
And we don't get to tell him who he can sign for.' |  | | |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:13 - Jul 7 with 1637 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:04 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
Is Cook making this sort of decision? Seems odd for the club to put together this whole back room staff, make such a point about structure, then have the first team manager deciding what wages we should be paying U23 players. |
You'd imagine PC would have chats with Dyer etc about players coming through, and be asked what he thinks the chances of first team football is for them
Looking at Gibbs, and compare him to Evans, Harper, potentially Crooks, Builds and Physicality.. Gibbs is a millions miles and 1000 gym visits before he'd be close to getting in the first team under PC. | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:15 - Jul 7 with 1625 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:10 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
What other logical inference is there from "he wanted to stay" and "the difference was a few hundred quid" other than that someone else was offering more money? |
Again, it could well be the next progression route available to him
First team football soon here no
football under 23 level and u18 is rubbish at cat 2
go to nodge academy or another prem academy, whilst he won't be getting first team football anytime soon, the football he will be playing is a level above anything we can offer him. | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:16 - Jul 7 with 1631 views | Guthrum |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 16:17 - Jul 7 by Churchman |
But is it an incorrect decision? We just don’t know the facts of it.
I don’t know about you but I left more than one job in my career and never publicly said thank god I’m going. It was always I’d really like to stay, but new opportunity I can’t turn down, domestic commitments blah blah blah. Leave on as good a terms as possible, even if massaging the truth is involved. Far better than saying ‘tinpot club, I want away’.
Whose to say. The system is geared to the big boys. As a little club in a rubbish League with ageing facilities, I can understand why he’d want something better if he thinks he’s that good. |
I'm trying to differentiate between 'backing the club' and considered criticism where it might be due.
We are at the point of losing a promising young player, over what is said to be quite a small difference in positions. If the club didn't want to keep him, why offer terms at all? If Gibbs didn't want to stay, why tell his private contacts (not the club, or the press) that he does? Something has clearly gone wrong.
It's not an expression of fan disloyalty to the club to suggest it may be them at fault. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:18 - Jul 7 with 1614 views | HARRY10 |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:10 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
What other logical inference is there from "he wanted to stay" and "the difference was a few hundred quid" other than that someone else was offering more money? |
higher level of U23 games
better coaching |  | | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:19 - Jul 7 with 1608 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:16 - Jul 7 by Guthrum |
I'm trying to differentiate between 'backing the club' and considered criticism where it might be due.
We are at the point of losing a promising young player, over what is said to be quite a small difference in positions. If the club didn't want to keep him, why offer terms at all? If Gibbs didn't want to stay, why tell his private contacts (not the club, or the press) that he does? Something has clearly gone wrong.
It's not an expression of fan disloyalty to the club to suggest it may be them at fault. |
You offer terms to enable compensation, as Phil mentions, we could get anything from 500k upwards. ( If compared to some other youngsters that have left) | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:21 - Jul 7 with 1602 views | jayessess |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:15 - Jul 7 by chrismakin |
Again, it could well be the next progression route available to him
First team football soon here no
football under 23 level and u18 is rubbish at cat 2
go to nodge academy or another prem academy, whilst he won't be getting first team football anytime soon, the football he will be playing is a level above anything we can offer him. |
How the hell do you logically infer that from "he wanted to stay" and "it was a matter of a few hundred quid"? | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:22 - Jul 7 with 1601 views | RadioOrwell |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:16 - Jul 7 by Guthrum |
I'm trying to differentiate between 'backing the club' and considered criticism where it might be due.
We are at the point of losing a promising young player, over what is said to be quite a small difference in positions. If the club didn't want to keep him, why offer terms at all? If Gibbs didn't want to stay, why tell his private contacts (not the club, or the press) that he does? Something has clearly gone wrong.
It's not an expression of fan disloyalty to the club to suggest it may be them at fault. |
We don't know what Gibbs is asking for. He might have been talking about first team football - like next season, or the season after.
And we might have said no - for good reason. | | | |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:23 - Jul 7 with 1593 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:21 - Jul 7 by jayessess |
How the hell do you logically infer that from "he wanted to stay" and "it was a matter of a few hundred quid"? |
Completely misread you message
I thought you were asking what other reason could there be other than clubs offering more money [Post edited 7 Jul 2021 17:24]
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:34 - Jul 7 with 1560 views | Guthrum |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:22 - Jul 7 by RadioOrwell |
We don't know what Gibbs is asking for. He might have been talking about first team football - like next season, or the season after.
And we might have said no - for good reason. |
However, equally that may not be the case.
Someone at the club may have assumed the player and his agent would capitulate and sign the contract in the end, which then didn't happen. A simple miscalculation, no malice intended.
The majority of these scenarios which are being put forward are pure speculation. A very few people might know some of the picture, most do not. | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:37 - Jul 7 with 1558 views | Mullet |
It’s unforgivable. The message it sends and the amount of gormless “back the club” wittering it has generated alone, make it so.
Those desperately casting aspersions on a kid to see whose tongue tip can reach the deepest annals of this new ITFC era need to give themselves a wobble. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:42 - Jul 7 with 1535 views | HARRY10 |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:19 - Jul 7 by chrismakin |
You offer terms to enable compensation, as Phil mentions, we could get anything from 500k upwards. ( If compared to some other youngsters that have left) |
Those left while under contract - Gibbs is not | | | |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:47 - Jul 7 with 1509 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:42 - Jul 7 by HARRY10 |
Those left while under contract - Gibbs is not |
You still get compensation as long as you have offered terms | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:50 - Jul 7 with 1499 views | chicoazul |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 16:59 - Jul 7 by chrismakin |
No sht, but im not stating anything as known |
The other month you were telling us all you have a better club source than Luke Chambers. You’re always presenting yourself as itk. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:54 - Jul 7 with 1486 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:50 - Jul 7 by chicoazul |
The other month you were telling us all you have a better club source than Luke Chambers. You’re always presenting yourself as itk. |
not really, people know my posts are full of personal opinion and useless knowledge or lack there of.
I've had the occasional knowing of stuff but nothing exciting to most. And that specific thread you mention was a certain subject of which I did know about. [Post edited 7 Jul 2021 17:56]
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:56 - Jul 7 with 1476 views | Keaneish |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 15:29 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
Yep, it's maddening
You will lose players from time to time, it's unavoidable whatever category you are in - but this seems totally avoidable, and he's the player who has been pushed on the most, by far, in his age group - which has had success! |
Any ITK on where the terms fell down? Was it just cash or was he demanding something more ie : guaranteed games. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:59 - Jul 7 with 1470 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 15:50 - Jul 7 by chrismakin |
Because our Academy isn't as good as some seem to think it is, and neither are a lot of the players that come through it. |
You saw how well they did in the FA Youth Cup, right? From League One. And with the top category academies being allowed to poach from our catchment area. ITFC's academy is doing better than most Category Two academies, but the system is heavily biased against us, and all non-Category One academies, and players are free to sign with whoever they want at certain points. | | | |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:59 - Jul 7 with 1471 views | itfcjoe |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:56 - Jul 7 by Keaneish |
Any ITK on where the terms fell down? Was it just cash or was he demanding something more ie : guaranteed games. |
Phil seems to suggest it was a couple of hundred quid a week, that he wanted to stay, and that we offered terms late last year…..there was no renegotiation and we just simply presented the same terms as an offer on the last day of his contract.
Reading between lines it seems that he may a bit miffed that next to no effort was made to keep him after (another) good season, and from club side it was just down the list of priorities.
Probably more mistake than malice, but leaves us in a bad position on it. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 18:01 - Jul 7 with 1465 views | Illinoisblue |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 16:36 - Jul 7 by MrTown |
A deal was offered to the young lad, he chose not to sign?
We shouldn't be just willing to pay whatever somebody demands, you can't run a club like that. |
True but the club should also be able to have a read on the situation, know that prem clubs are sniffing around and then act accordingly. And Christ alive, if it’s money that’s the issue, a few hundred more a week for a player potentially worth millions…. |  |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 18:04 - Jul 7 with 1448 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 17:59 - Jul 7 by ArnoldMoorhen |
You saw how well they did in the FA Youth Cup, right? From League One. And with the top category academies being allowed to poach from our catchment area. ITFC's academy is doing better than most Category Two academies, but the system is heavily biased against us, and all non-Category One academies, and players are free to sign with whoever they want at certain points. |
I do wish people didnt use the FA youth cup as a sign of how good a player is or how the Academy is. We've won it before, barely any of that side went on to do anything of note afterwards for starters. It was a great run for the side, and well done to all involved however.
It's a good standard Cat 2 Academy. But it's full of players all to similar, small and fluffy and needs a complete overhaul over the next few years. We are getting a few through which is great, BUT it needs to get better, as Dyer himself mentioned. | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 18:07 - Jul 7 with 1435 views | itfcjoe |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 18:04 - Jul 7 by chrismakin |
I do wish people didnt use the FA youth cup as a sign of how good a player is or how the Academy is. We've won it before, barely any of that side went on to do anything of note afterwards for starters. It was a great run for the side, and well done to all involved however.
It's a good standard Cat 2 Academy. But it's full of players all to similar, small and fluffy and needs a complete overhaul over the next few years. We are getting a few through which is great, BUT it needs to get better, as Dyer himself mentioned. |
Yeah why on Earth would people use demonstrable evidence they’ve seen with their own eyes of these guys going toe to toe with some of the best academies in the country that these players are good….. | |
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| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 18:11 - Jul 7 with 1405 views | chrismakin |
| If we're prepared to let Gibbs walk... on 18:07 - Jul 7 by itfcjoe |
Yeah why on Earth would people use demonstrable evidence they’ve seen with their own eyes of these guys going toe to toe with some of the best academies in the country that these players are good….. |
I've already answered why Joe in the same post.
Feel free to use it as a guide if you wish, itll be interesting to look back in 5 years to see how many of the side did indeed go on to better things.
Of course we hope a few make it, but I don't see the cup run being the be all and end all in how to judge an academy and it's players. If we won it every year, different ball game. [Post edited 7 Jul 2021 18:13]
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