| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel 09:24 - Aug 18 with 26529 views | carlisleaway |
We went through the whole Championship without kneeling, surely this is not required |  | | |  |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:37 - Aug 18 with 3182 views | Ryorry |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 21:27 - Aug 18 by flykickingbybgunn |
I was brought up a catholic in a C of E world. I know all about "isms". Which many of you will not understand but currently the jewish community will. I have great sympathy with them as i do for all those persecuted.
If people are white, black, brown, purple, red, orange, or even yellow (well unless they from north of the waveney) all are equal. a
I accept that some are sometimes not treated as sutch.
But that should not change their chances in life.
All should be treated as equal.
And if you consider those sentiments to be wrong then I dont want to be associated with this forum as it is clearly full of homophobes, racists and idiots |
For your perusal:-
https://citizen-network.org/library/a-response-to-all-lives-matter.html
"One of the things that has come out of the most recent Black Lives Matter campaign and protests has been the notion that “All Lives Matter”. A counter-statement, if you will.
This is a notion that no-one has ever disputed, and supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement do not disagree with it."
"Today, innocent white people do not walk down the street wondering if the police will stop them. Innocent black people do. White people don’t walk around a supermarket wondering if a security guard will be following them. Black people do. White people don’t walk into a job interview wondering if their skin colour will count against them. Black people do. This is entrenched, systemic racism. It is very easy to take a privileged position for granted. It is not so easy to see, appreciate, or understand systemic racism if you are not subjected to it. I’m not less likely to get a job because I’m 5ft 6”. But I would be less likely to get a job if I was 5ft 6” and black. The statistics are there to prove this, and there is no legitimate justification for this."
"As White British people, we might be oppressed by individuals because of our height, our weight, our hair colour, our accent, our choice of clothing, our wealth (or lack thereof). But - as a group of people – as a race - we have never been stripped of our assets, taken from our home country against our wish, enslaved. Nor have we suffered consistent oppression that negatively impacts on us as a group to this day."
Summary/TLDR:- Black people have historically & continuingly been treated as though their lives haven't mattered as much as white people's. Hence the BLM movement challenging & trying to rectify that terrible wrong |  |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:47 - Aug 18 with 3115 views | Jimmy86 |
So, here's the thing.. I totally get why they do it and fully support the need to continue highlighting all forms of injustice and racism, but taking the knee before every game lost its impact, hence them doing it for certain games..
it could also be classed as virtue signalling, as it looks very robotic ( on the ref's whistle and all in unison )
There are also black players ( Toney was Def one and possibly Zaha?) who refused to take the knee, as they wanted to stand and be proud of who they are and not be seen to kneel.. that and the fact that whilst taking the knee is a worthwhile gesture it didn't eradicate the issue of racism...
Take the Chelsea Vs City game today.. they all took the knee, including Enzo Fernandez, who only recently got in hot water with the derogatory video he posted with the Argentina national team about the French... Bit hypocritical in that sense isn't it |  | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:58 - Aug 18 with 3042 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:47 - Aug 18 by Jimmy86 |
So, here's the thing.. I totally get why they do it and fully support the need to continue highlighting all forms of injustice and racism, but taking the knee before every game lost its impact, hence them doing it for certain games..
it could also be classed as virtue signalling, as it looks very robotic ( on the ref's whistle and all in unison )
There are also black players ( Toney was Def one and possibly Zaha?) who refused to take the knee, as they wanted to stand and be proud of who they are and not be seen to kneel.. that and the fact that whilst taking the knee is a worthwhile gesture it didn't eradicate the issue of racism...
Take the Chelsea Vs City game today.. they all took the knee, including Enzo Fernandez, who only recently got in hot water with the derogatory video he posted with the Argentina national team about the French... Bit hypocritical in that sense isn't it |
It's this simple for me: this is the 128th message on this thread so far. We're talking about it. It was worth those 8 seconds. | |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 23:04 - Aug 18 with 3007 views | Jimmy86 |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 20:58 - Aug 18 by vapour_trail |
What a thread. Reassuring to know this place never changes.
Does anyone know if Chelsea captain and Argentinian cheerleader, Enzo Fernandez, took the knee this afternoon? |
I watched the Chelsea Vs City game, they showed the players taking the knee, but funnily enough they didn't show Fernandez doing so... I mean, it would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it.. and that's why some people have an issue with the gesture.. Fernandez was openly racist in that video, yet takes the knee to highlight all forms of injustice, including racism, which he was guilty of in that video... | | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 23:33 - Aug 18 with 2924 views | Whos_blue |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:58 - Aug 18 by Nutkins_Return |
It's this simple for me: this is the 128th message on this thread so far. We're talking about it. It was worth those 8 seconds. |
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| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 23:37 - Aug 18 with 2893 views | BlueBadger |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 10:46 - Aug 18 by Tonytown |
Yes, who wants to see anti racism gestures? |
Not the OP or wellhungphil, it would appear. |  |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 00:07 - Aug 19 with 2826 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 16:51 - Aug 18 by Europablue |
If it didn't mean anything then, they wouldn't do it.
I personally find the kneeling gesture offensive from my cultural understanding of kneeling being a gesture of submission. It's also annoying because it is yet another cultural import from America that doesn't fit our cultural context.
At the same time I have accepted that the people who do it have a different cultural understanding. They are either ignorant of the cultural significance of kneeling, or they choose to give it a new meaning.
It didn't upset me though, it's more of one of those things to roll your eyes at. |
Now that you bring culture into it, in mine kneeling is an act of respect but the bigger picture here is that it is an anti racism display. The effectiveness of it is quite debatable but I think it is a valid if token protest against one of the many forms of unreasonable and illogical intolerance. |  | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 01:26 - Aug 19 with 2747 views | Hiphopopotamus |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 16:51 - Aug 18 by Europablue |
If it didn't mean anything then, they wouldn't do it.
I personally find the kneeling gesture offensive from my cultural understanding of kneeling being a gesture of submission. It's also annoying because it is yet another cultural import from America that doesn't fit our cultural context.
At the same time I have accepted that the people who do it have a different cultural understanding. They are either ignorant of the cultural significance of kneeling, or they choose to give it a new meaning.
It didn't upset me though, it's more of one of those things to roll your eyes at. |
“I personally find the kneeling gesture offensive”.
You find kneeling offensive? Wait until you find out about racial inequality. You’ll be fuming.
Side note: you always seem to be justifying racists on here. Interesting. |  | | |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:10 - Aug 19 with 2584 views | noggin |
From today's main news story on Sky News, regarding strip searches of children by the police. Black children are 4 times as likely to be strip searched, as white children.
It seems institutional racism, within the police, has not been addressed. |  |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:20 - Aug 19 with 2534 views | Churchman |
I’ve not read the whole thread, but my take on this is that I’ve no problem with the pre match kneel. More than happy to see it. I am utterly opposed to all forms of prejudice and ‘isms’ including racism. While we’ve come a long way in this country since say the 1970s, there’s a way to go in my view and things like the pre match kneel is a positive thing. |  | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:23 - Aug 19 with 2509 views | BlueBoots |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:10 - Aug 19 by noggin |
From today's main news story on Sky News, regarding strip searches of children by the police. Black children are 4 times as likely to be strip searched, as white children.
It seems institutional racism, within the police, has not been addressed. |
I think these kids have more to complain about than the OP having to endure watching a group of sportsmen kneeling for less than 10 seconds to try to highlight issues such as this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/black-children-in-englan |  |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:26 - Aug 19 with 2478 views | ibbleobble |
Sad that after our first PL game in 22-years, it’s this post which gets the most attention and pages… | | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:38 - Aug 19 with 2436 views | BlueBoots |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:20 - Aug 19 by Churchman |
I’ve not read the whole thread, but my take on this is that I’ve no problem with the pre match kneel. More than happy to see it. I am utterly opposed to all forms of prejudice and ‘isms’ including racism. While we’ve come a long way in this country since say the 1970s, there’s a way to go in my view and things like the pre match kneel is a positive thing. |
Indeed...but as the recent riots showed, although we HAD come a long way since the 1970's, there is already a regression and there are elements of society trying to stir up divisions to drag us back to those days. Then you get dog whistling tweets from Farage mentioning the BLM movement to remind the racists at that time that there is another ethnic group that they shouldn't be forgetting - this is just one example of what we're up against. | |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:39 - Aug 19 with 2409 views | NthQldITFC |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 23:37 - Aug 18 by BlueBadger |
Not the OP or wellhungphil, it would appear. |
Anyone with a username like that  is probably so insecure that any gesture would frighten them. |  |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 08:34 - Aug 19 with 2264 views | eireblue |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 00:07 - Aug 19 by Eireannach_gorm |
Now that you bring culture into it, in mine kneeling is an act of respect but the bigger picture here is that it is an anti racism display. The effectiveness of it is quite debatable but I think it is a valid if token protest against one of the many forms of unreasonable and illogical intolerance. |
Yea, it does beg the question, culturally, what would be the correct thing to do.
I don’t know what would people suggest.
Maybe handstands, or eight seconds of cartwheels?
Culturally, in the past, what did sports people do in a group to support an anti-racism mes….oh…… |  | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 11:10 - Aug 19 with 2109 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:47 - Aug 18 by Jimmy86 |
So, here's the thing.. I totally get why they do it and fully support the need to continue highlighting all forms of injustice and racism, but taking the knee before every game lost its impact, hence them doing it for certain games..
it could also be classed as virtue signalling, as it looks very robotic ( on the ref's whistle and all in unison )
There are also black players ( Toney was Def one and possibly Zaha?) who refused to take the knee, as they wanted to stand and be proud of who they are and not be seen to kneel.. that and the fact that whilst taking the knee is a worthwhile gesture it didn't eradicate the issue of racism...
Take the Chelsea Vs City game today.. they all took the knee, including Enzo Fernandez, who only recently got in hot water with the derogatory video he posted with the Argentina national team about the French... Bit hypocritical in that sense isn't it |
You make a very good point about Enzo Fernandez going though the motions of making a public anti-racism gesture just days after posting a racist video online.
The roots of racism are in ignorance, so the solution to racism is awareness and education not through coerced compliance of a gesture that those who hold racist views are most likely to view as humiliating.
Humiliating racists is something I would have no problem with if it resulted in a change in their beliefs, but it won't because humiliating or coercing people into compliance is not going to solve the real problem, in fact, it will likely make the problem worse.
People, if you really hope to see an end to racism in and outside sport, "Public displays of group conformity on the whistle: go!" is little more than virtue signalling. |  | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 11:23 - Aug 19 with 2060 views | Reus30 |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 07:26 - Aug 19 by ibbleobble |
Sad that after our first PL game in 22-years, it’s this post which gets the most attention and pages… |
I think this is the most divisive OP post of all time from what I can remember.
But this thread also contains an all timer of a reply in terms of being a bigotted dimwit.
Racism still exists, we need to address it/stamp it out/educate etc. End of the matter really.
I think in the Man City Chelski game, only Enzo should have kneeled and the cameras and rest of the players just glared at him for 10 seconds. Would have be a good watch. Either that or make him sing the song again on the PA and let him get absolute pelters. |  | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 11:31 - Aug 19 with 2019 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 16:51 - Aug 18 by Europablue |
If it didn't mean anything then, they wouldn't do it.
I personally find the kneeling gesture offensive from my cultural understanding of kneeling being a gesture of submission. It's also annoying because it is yet another cultural import from America that doesn't fit our cultural context.
At the same time I have accepted that the people who do it have a different cultural understanding. They are either ignorant of the cultural significance of kneeling, or they choose to give it a new meaning.
It didn't upset me though, it's more of one of those things to roll your eyes at. |
Even if it were about submission, why would it be offensive for you? Or are you being offended on someone elses behalf? Very woke and snowflakey...
Of course, 30 seconds research would show where it actually comes from in this context and that it is not submission, but the opposite... | | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 13:41 - Aug 19 with 1862 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 11:10 - Aug 19 by Cafe_Newman |
You make a very good point about Enzo Fernandez going though the motions of making a public anti-racism gesture just days after posting a racist video online.
The roots of racism are in ignorance, so the solution to racism is awareness and education not through coerced compliance of a gesture that those who hold racist views are most likely to view as humiliating.
Humiliating racists is something I would have no problem with if it resulted in a change in their beliefs, but it won't because humiliating or coercing people into compliance is not going to solve the real problem, in fact, it will likely make the problem worse.
People, if you really hope to see an end to racism in and outside sport, "Public displays of group conformity on the whistle: go!" is little more than virtue signalling. |
No-one's been humiliated.
And as I explained above, it's about the wider picture. Putting it out there, in the public eye, in a variety of ways (of which taking the knee is just one) so that it gets into the public consciousness. And then, over time, attitudes change.
I really don't see how taking the knee makes things worse. It seems like you're trying a bit too hard to find a way to discredit it. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 14:51 - Aug 19 with 1781 views | PassionNotAnger |
I think the OP is getting a lot of stick and people are missing the public service being provided by:
A, Highlighting the overt racists and idiots upvoting it (regrettably my accidental initial upvote makes me an idiot but not a racist).
B, Demonstrating those who are prepared to stand up to bigotry, prejudice and racism by downvoting it
C, Showing the notable posters absent of comment or voting who perhaps don’t have the courage of their convictions.
Still, good opportunity for Phil to sell the data on up voters to Reform so that check they haven’t missed any supporters off their database | | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 15:30 - Aug 19 with 1701 views | Reus30 |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 14:51 - Aug 19 by PassionNotAnger |
I think the OP is getting a lot of stick and people are missing the public service being provided by:
A, Highlighting the overt racists and idiots upvoting it (regrettably my accidental initial upvote makes me an idiot but not a racist).
B, Demonstrating those who are prepared to stand up to bigotry, prejudice and racism by downvoting it
C, Showing the notable posters absent of comment or voting who perhaps don’t have the courage of their convictions.
Still, good opportunity for Phil to sell the data on up voters to Reform so that check they haven’t missed any supporters off their database |
I think you are reading way too much into it.
People are more inclined to exaggerate themselves on the net than real life as they can hide behind a keyboard.
Some people like to dump out views they might not agree with just to be a butt. Some people are idiots. Some are bigots. But that's their view - they are wrong but that's theirs. No point being high and mighty on the internet particularly somewhere where we are passionate about the same thing (ITFC)
Is what it is. Hence why it's important to educate around these things providing the 'why' an action is taken. | | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 16:24 - Aug 19 with 1632 views | MK1 |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 22:58 - Aug 18 by Nutkins_Return |
It's this simple for me: this is the 128th message on this thread so far. We're talking about it. It was worth those 8 seconds. |
Exactly. If it gets people talking and makes everyone more socially aware, then it has done it's job. |  |
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 16:52 - Aug 19 with 1581 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 13:41 - Aug 19 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No-one's been humiliated.
And as I explained above, it's about the wider picture. Putting it out there, in the public eye, in a variety of ways (of which taking the knee is just one) so that it gets into the public consciousness. And then, over time, attitudes change.
I really don't see how taking the knee makes things worse. It seems like you're trying a bit too hard to find a way to discredit it. |
"No-one's been humiliated."
How do you know? If I had to kneel in respect for something which went against by beliefs I would find the process quite humiliating. If all football players are doing it and no one is feeling humiliated, that's great as it suggests we don't have a problem with racism in English football - among the players at least.
"And as I explained above, it's about the wider picture. Putting it out there, in the public eye, in a variety of ways (of which taking the knee is just one) so that it gets into the public consciousness. And then, over time, attitudes change."
I agree that attitudes and cultures change slowly over time. But ask yourself, is it working? I hope it is but I question whether recent events suggest that? I have my doubts. I don't believe the likes of SYL and Nigel Farage are creating racists but rather sustaining racism and appealing to the beliefs of those who already hold racist views, for political ends. Players have been "taking the knee" for four years. Again, I question if it's working.
"I really don't see how taking the knee makes things worse".
Then read my last post again.
"It seems like you're trying a bit too hard to find a way to discredit it."
Not at all, I'm finding it very easy to suggest that it may not be a great thing to do in an effort to combat racism. You hold a different opinion. If you can demonstrate to me that it's effective and it's not a polarising gesture which is likely to entrench racist attitudes and behaviours, I'll change my opinion without hesitation. | | | |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 16:56 - Aug 19 with 1561 views | DJR |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 14:51 - Aug 19 by PassionNotAnger |
I think the OP is getting a lot of stick and people are missing the public service being provided by:
A, Highlighting the overt racists and idiots upvoting it (regrettably my accidental initial upvote makes me an idiot but not a racist).
B, Demonstrating those who are prepared to stand up to bigotry, prejudice and racism by downvoting it
C, Showing the notable posters absent of comment or voting who perhaps don’t have the courage of their convictions.
Still, good opportunity for Phil to sell the data on up voters to Reform so that check they haven’t missed any supporters off their database |
I never downvote, whatever the comment.
I prefer add my comment, if it is something I feel strongly about and disagree with.
EDIT: there is an exception, as has just happened. If I accidentally upvote or downvote, I then do the opposite to balance it out. [Post edited 19 Aug 2024 17:00]
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| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 17:01 - Aug 19 with 1532 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Personally the only thing that annoyed me yesterday was the pre match kneel on 14:51 - Aug 19 by PassionNotAnger |
I think the OP is getting a lot of stick and people are missing the public service being provided by:
A, Highlighting the overt racists and idiots upvoting it (regrettably my accidental initial upvote makes me an idiot but not a racist).
B, Demonstrating those who are prepared to stand up to bigotry, prejudice and racism by downvoting it
C, Showing the notable posters absent of comment or voting who perhaps don’t have the courage of their convictions.
Still, good opportunity for Phil to sell the data on up voters to Reform so that check they haven’t missed any supporters off their database |
It's only until quite recently that we scorned regimes where the things you are suggesting are done as a matter of course. | | | |
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