| Labour Party and Kier Starmer 07:25 - Sep 3 with 49819 views | onceablue |
I just woke up from a nightmare where Kier Starmer and his Girlfriend Rachael Reeves were in charge of the country
Oh f@ck
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:04 - Sep 9 with 1775 views | MattinLondon |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 09:58 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's how they drive trains in cartoons Benters. Meanwhile, in the real world... |
Every driving job carries its own risks - whereas a lorry driver has to deal with more idiotic drivers on busy roads, a train driver is responsible for hundreds of passengers each day.
I suspect the real reason why train drivers seem to be belittled more than other drivers is that they still have a strong union prepared to fight for better pay. |  | | |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:05 - Sep 9 with 1756 views | Blueschev |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 09:56 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're so used to Tory soundbites you think everything's one. |
Saying you're going do things properly is not a vision for the future of the country, it's something you say in an interview for a job you don't really want. |  | | |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:08 - Sep 9 with 1736 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 09:47 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I haven't forgotten the note. What you don't seem to know is it's a joke note the outgoing minister traditionally leaves for an incomer when a government changes after an election. David Laws, the Lib Dem who released the note, has apologised to Liam Byrne for weaponising it.
Unfortunately these things get out into the public and the facts get lost. You're not alone in not knowing it's a long running joke that has been done many times and 2010 just happens to be the first time it was released. The weaponising of it clearly worked!
The election before the last election is a long way in the past, nothing we can do about that now, and Starmer has turned the party around completely since then. |
Turning the country round is what matters, turning the party round merely provided an opportunity to try.
Settling pay dispute with ASLEF, back dated in part for over two years, then them announcing industrial action over another issue doesn’t inspire confidence. |  |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:13 - Sep 9 with 1716 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:08 - Sep 9 by Pinewoodblue |
Turning the country round is what matters, turning the party round merely provided an opportunity to try.
Settling pay dispute with ASLEF, back dated in part for over two years, then them announcing industrial action over another issue doesn’t inspire confidence. |
They've been in power 2 months. When are you expecting the country to be turned round by?
I knew you'd avoid the point about the note. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:13 - Sep 9 with 1715 views | leitrimblue |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 09:51 - Sep 9 by Benters |
It can’t be that hard can it you don’t have to steer or anything.There are signs on the railway to tell you of what speed you should be going at etc.
In Benters central station there is a marker on the platform to tell you where to stop.I’d say driving an articulated lorry is harder. |
Seems easy enough, though I think Postman Pats job looks even nicer. It's just him and Jess the cat cruising around the countryside around Green Dale delivering post and solving the villagers problems. |  | | |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:14 - Sep 9 with 1711 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:05 - Sep 9 by Blueschev |
Saying you're going do things properly is not a vision for the future of the country, it's something you say in an interview for a job you don't really want. |
No, you say it and then you do it. Which is the opposite of what the Tories did.
I wonder if you'll give Labour 14 years like you did the Tories? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:16 - Sep 9 with 1688 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:13 - Sep 9 by leitrimblue |
Seems easy enough, though I think Postman Pats job looks even nicer. It's just him and Jess the cat cruising around the countryside around Green Dale delivering post and solving the villagers problems. |
And then when that gets a bit boring you can always retrain as Dora The Explorer. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:21 - Sep 9 with 1651 views | leitrimblue |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:16 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
And then when that gets a bit boring you can always retrain as Dora The Explorer. |
I like to think he's kept his options open. Though you don't wanna end up with Salty Dog on old Jacks boat | | | |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:24 - Sep 9 with 1644 views | Blueschev |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:14 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No, you say it and then you do it. Which is the opposite of what the Tories did.
I wonder if you'll give Labour 14 years like you did the Tories? |
I despise the Tories, I never gave them any time. It's irrelevant to this conversation though as we're discussing Labour and their vision for the country, or lack thereof. Not being the Tories is not an achievement, nor is it a policy platform. | | | |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:29 - Sep 9 with 1636 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:24 - Sep 9 by Blueschev |
I despise the Tories, I never gave them any time. It's irrelevant to this conversation though as we're discussing Labour and their vision for the country, or lack thereof. Not being the Tories is not an achievement, nor is it a policy platform. |
Their vision for the country is to fix all the problems and raise the standard of living for everyone, all of which will take considerable time. I don't know what else to tell you. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:31 - Sep 9 with 1632 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:13 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
They've been in power 2 months. When are you expecting the country to be turned round by?
I knew you'd avoid the point about the note. |
It wasn’t worthy of further comment. | |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:52 - Sep 9 with 1571 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:31 - Sep 9 by Pinewoodblue |
It wasn’t worthy of further comment. |
You could admit you didn't know that and were wrong?
Or you did know it and was hoping I wouldn't?
That's the problem with media these days, social or otherwise. People love sharing the 'sexy' bit but they go all quiet when someone mentions the facts. The sexy bit continues to be out there in the world, the facts get skipped over, not commented on, ignored and in some cases hidden, and so the false narrative just continues.
The world would be a much better place all round if people just told the truth. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 11:14 - Sep 9 with 1514 views | Blueschev |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:29 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Their vision for the country is to fix all the problems and raise the standard of living for everyone, all of which will take considerable time. I don't know what else to tell you. |
Any party can say that, which party wouldn't? What I and others are pointing out is the how appears to be completely absent from their messaging. Fixing all of the country's problems is not a strategy. | | | |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 11:16 - Sep 9 with 1508 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:52 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You could admit you didn't know that and were wrong?
Or you did know it and was hoping I wouldn't?
That's the problem with media these days, social or otherwise. People love sharing the 'sexy' bit but they go all quiet when someone mentions the facts. The sexy bit continues to be out there in the world, the facts get skipped over, not commented on, ignored and in some cases hidden, and so the false narrative just continues.
The world would be a much better place all round if people just told the truth. |
It was a joke that went wrong because it was too close to reality.
Back to the matter in hand. The truth is that Starmer was wrong to promise not to raise the key taxes especially as Labour maintained that financially the Country was in a mess. Then the truth would have cost votes and it was all about winning.
It is my belief that we need to raise the standard rate of income tax and at the same time raise tax allowances and/ or bring in a lower tax band. Redistribute the wealth with socialist policies.
Fat chance of that happening . | |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 11:34 - Sep 9 with 1460 views | wkj |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 09:47 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I haven't forgotten the note. What you don't seem to know is it's a joke note the outgoing minister traditionally leaves for an incomer when a government changes after an election. David Laws, the Lib Dem who released the note, has apologised to Liam Byrne for weaponising it.
Unfortunately these things get out into the public and the facts get lost. You're not alone in not knowing it's a long running joke that has been done many times and 2010 just happens to be the first time it was released. The weaponising of it clearly worked!
The election before the last election is a long way in the past, nothing we can do about that now, and Starmer has turned the party around completely since then. |
Don't forget to cite them!
Bush, S. (2023) Liam Byrne’s Labour apology for “no money” note. Available at: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/commons-confidential/2023/07/liam-byrne-la (Accessed: 9 September 2024) |  |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 11:57 - Sep 9 with 1422 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 11:14 - Sep 9 by Blueschev |
Any party can say that, which party wouldn't? What I and others are pointing out is the how appears to be completely absent from their messaging. Fixing all of the country's problems is not a strategy. |
We'll have to wait and see. It's been two months. The strategy behind that is making better use of the country's finances - stopping waste and spending it wisely (and yes perhaps raising more).
Of course it's only words and any party could say it, time will obviously tell if it's going to work. I don't know what else you were expecting to see after two months but starting to do things properly and with the country's interests at heart seems a good place to start (and what we've not had for 14 years) to me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:05 - Sep 9 with 1397 views | giant_stow |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 10:04 - Sep 9 by MattinLondon |
Every driving job carries its own risks - whereas a lorry driver has to deal with more idiotic drivers on busy roads, a train driver is responsible for hundreds of passengers each day.
I suspect the real reason why train drivers seem to be belittled more than other drivers is that they still have a strong union prepared to fight for better pay. |
The skill involved in riving a lorry and all the uncertainties and variables that comes with that, must dwarf the skills needed for driving a train.
When the apocalypse comes, it'll just be cockroaches and tube drivers left. |  |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:12 - Sep 9 with 1368 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 11:16 - Sep 9 by Pinewoodblue |
It was a joke that went wrong because it was too close to reality.
Back to the matter in hand. The truth is that Starmer was wrong to promise not to raise the key taxes especially as Labour maintained that financially the Country was in a mess. Then the truth would have cost votes and it was all about winning.
It is my belief that we need to raise the standard rate of income tax and at the same time raise tax allowances and/ or bring in a lower tax band. Redistribute the wealth with socialist policies.
Fat chance of that happening . |
It's a joke stretching back decades, possibly to the 1920's, and was meant to be private, intended only for the next chief secretary.
David Laws chose not to respect that, misquoted it, and then was out himself less than 3 weeks later due to the expenses scandal. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:14 - Sep 9 with 1352 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:05 - Sep 9 by giant_stow |
The skill involved in riving a lorry and all the uncertainties and variables that comes with that, must dwarf the skills needed for driving a train.
When the apocalypse comes, it'll just be cockroaches and tube drivers left. |
I suspect you have no experience of either. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:16 - Sep 9 with 1340 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 09:54 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Well that bit sounds nice. A very small proportion, that, though. And they don't earn £70k. Some facts for you;
"In the United Kingdom, the average salary for a train driver is £57,796 per year, with an average additional cash compensation of £2,802. However, salaries can vary depending on the role, with freight train drivers earning an average of £44,418.
Here are some other things to know about train driver salaries:
Starting salary: Train drivers can expect to start with an average salary of £30,000.
Overtime: Avanti pays train drivers £600 per shift for overtime.
Training: The training process for train drivers includes 16 weeks of classroom learning and practical learning on how to drive a train.
Working conditions: Train drivers work a four-day shift pattern, with an average of 154 rest days a year. They are also entitled to a minimum 20 days' statutory annual leave on top of the eight bank holidays.
Safety: Train drivers' salaries are partly due to physical and mental health danger money, as they are the first to die in an accident." |
No comment on the facts Benters?
Once again, people aren't interested in facts if they don't suit their narrative. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:25 - Sep 9 with 1299 views | giant_stow |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:14 - Sep 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I suspect you have no experience of either. |
Well deduced sir - was it the use of the words 'must be' that helped?
Its a logical opinion though when you think about it, especially when many trains these days can drive themselves. | |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:36 - Sep 9 with 1268 views | lowhouseblue |
this is a fun article on some of the challenges facing labour. it is interesting to see just what an outlier the uk has become relative to the rest of europe.
https://unherd.com/2024/09/labour-should-ignore-its-immigration-extremists/ |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:37 - Sep 9 with 1258 views | DanTheMan |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:25 - Sep 9 by giant_stow |
Well deduced sir - was it the use of the words 'must be' that helped?
Its a logical opinion though when you think about it, especially when many trains these days can drive themselves. |
"when many trains these days can drive themselves."
Which trains are we talking about? The tube could be automated but we're talking billions of pounds of investment which doesn't seem worth it compared to just upping pay. These sorts of trains I imagine are a bit easier as they are in the a closed loop for the most part.
I imagine the investment needed for driverless trains elsewhere in the UK would be hundreds of billions, requiring upgrading a massive amount of track and signalling and then ongoing maintenance of more complicated infrastructure. All to save on a relatively small amount of driving costs.
The costs don't work. It's all good if you're doing something from scratch but when you've got to work with the stuff we've already got, it breaks down. |  |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:41 - Sep 9 with 1209 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:25 - Sep 9 by giant_stow |
Well deduced sir - was it the use of the words 'must be' that helped?
Its a logical opinion though when you think about it, especially when many trains these days can drive themselves. |
As I posted earlier in the thread, the train driving course is 16 weeks.
Learning to drive a lorry usually takes between 7 and 12 weeks. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:43 - Sep 9 with 1196 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour Party and Kier Starmer on 12:37 - Sep 9 by DanTheMan |
"when many trains these days can drive themselves."
Which trains are we talking about? The tube could be automated but we're talking billions of pounds of investment which doesn't seem worth it compared to just upping pay. These sorts of trains I imagine are a bit easier as they are in the a closed loop for the most part.
I imagine the investment needed for driverless trains elsewhere in the UK would be hundreds of billions, requiring upgrading a massive amount of track and signalling and then ongoing maintenance of more complicated infrastructure. All to save on a relatively small amount of driving costs.
The costs don't work. It's all good if you're doing something from scratch but when you've got to work with the stuff we've already got, it breaks down. |
I think Stow was suggesting trains are easy to drive because many of them already drive themselves. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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