| This Dawn Butler incident 23:36 - Aug 9 with 28750 views | ElderGrizzly |
She edited a video to make it look like she was driving, claimed racial profiling when the fuller video shows the driver to 1, not be her and 2 to be white.
The Police are asking to release their bodycam footage
Original, not ‘flipped’ footage here
And the plea from the Met Police Federation
Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:41 - Aug 9 with 9536 views | textbackup |
it actually makes it easier to brush the issue off her behaving in that way.
so frustrating for people with genuine struggles in terms of racism |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:52 - Aug 9 with 9493 views | ElderGrizzly |
Video appears to show a white person, but could be a very light skinned BAME i guess.
Reason for stop was the reg plate, not the people which they couldn’t see from behind. And their reasoning was a lot of drugs issues coming into Hackney from outside.
She does appear to be spoiling for a fight, when nothing is there on this occasion. She is a huge opponent of stop and search too which is probably behind her approach here. [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 23:53]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:25 - Aug 10 with 9427 views | itfcjoe |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:52 - Aug 9 by ElderGrizzly |
Video appears to show a white person, but could be a very light skinned BAME i guess.
Reason for stop was the reg plate, not the people which they couldn’t see from behind. And their reasoning was a lot of drugs issues coming into Hackney from outside.
She does appear to be spoiling for a fight, when nothing is there on this occasion. She is a huge opponent of stop and search too which is probably behind her approach here. [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 23:53]
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Probably sick of being pulled over for nothing as a black person, as seems to happen too regularly in London |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:33 - Aug 10 with 9405 views | jeera |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:25 - Aug 10 by itfcjoe |
Probably sick of being pulled over for nothing as a black person, as seems to happen too regularly in London |
I know this is the States (again) but did you see this a few days ago?
Black family out in a car. Number plate mistaken for that of a stolen motorcycle; kids removed from car at gunpoint and made to lie on the tarmac in full public view:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-family-handcuffed-gunpoi |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 06:10 - Aug 10 with 9145 views | bournemouthblue |
N/T [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 6:11]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 06:13 - Aug 10 with 9136 views | bournemouthblue |
'Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse'
I'm not sure about that one but it isn't a great, if proven to be true
The met police have obviously had their issues over the years, notably the Stephen Lawrence case and I know in the past they were seen to be corrupt. I don't think that baggage has ever left the Met sadly, rightly or wrongly.
I know people who worked in other law enforcement areas and they didn't trust the police back then, there were cases where the police arrested their undercover operatives, destroying months of investigation work. That in part is because none of these agencies used to talk to each other and partly why we now have the National Crime Agency.
I'm told the NCA, still aren't up to scratch though but whether that is true or not, I can't say.
I do feel, there are considerably more racist people than we care to realise in the UK, I think Social Media and the whole furore around illegal immigration fueled by the right wing press has brought it to a head again and that is disappointing.
I do find it quite amusing that we now have genuine racists who get all snow flakey about the issue with absolutely no sense of irony attached to it. I've heard more moaning about Black Lives Matter than I've heard from 'The Left' on just about any subject. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 06:22 - Aug 10 with 9127 views | ElderGrizzly |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 06:13 - Aug 10 by bournemouthblue |
'Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse'
I'm not sure about that one but it isn't a great, if proven to be true
The met police have obviously had their issues over the years, notably the Stephen Lawrence case and I know in the past they were seen to be corrupt. I don't think that baggage has ever left the Met sadly, rightly or wrongly.
I know people who worked in other law enforcement areas and they didn't trust the police back then, there were cases where the police arrested their undercover operatives, destroying months of investigation work. That in part is because none of these agencies used to talk to each other and partly why we now have the National Crime Agency.
I'm told the NCA, still aren't up to scratch though but whether that is true or not, I can't say.
I do feel, there are considerably more racist people than we care to realise in the UK, I think Social Media and the whole furore around illegal immigration fueled by the right wing press has brought it to a head again and that is disappointing.
I do find it quite amusing that we now have genuine racists who get all snow flakey about the issue with absolutely no sense of irony attached to it. I've heard more moaning about Black Lives Matter than I've heard from 'The Left' on just about any subject. |
By worse, I meant it makes it worse for genuine victims if she is indeed not one here.
As Joe says, she is probably fed up with being stopped, but potentially endangering these police officers isn’t the way to do it. | | | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 08:35 - Aug 10 with 8792 views | Herbivore |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 06:13 - Aug 10 by bournemouthblue |
'Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse'
I'm not sure about that one but it isn't a great, if proven to be true
The met police have obviously had their issues over the years, notably the Stephen Lawrence case and I know in the past they were seen to be corrupt. I don't think that baggage has ever left the Met sadly, rightly or wrongly.
I know people who worked in other law enforcement areas and they didn't trust the police back then, there were cases where the police arrested their undercover operatives, destroying months of investigation work. That in part is because none of these agencies used to talk to each other and partly why we now have the National Crime Agency.
I'm told the NCA, still aren't up to scratch though but whether that is true or not, I can't say.
I do feel, there are considerably more racist people than we care to realise in the UK, I think Social Media and the whole furore around illegal immigration fueled by the right wing press has brought it to a head again and that is disappointing.
I do find it quite amusing that we now have genuine racists who get all snow flakey about the issue with absolutely no sense of irony attached to it. I've heard more moaning about Black Lives Matter than I've heard from 'The Left' on just about any subject. |
You are right about the amount of racism and the outpouring of anger about the BLM movement. I made the mistake of reading the comments on Dawn Butler's first post about being stopped. It was pretty eye opening and not in a good way. I reported a few posts but I doubt twitter will do anything. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 08:42 - Aug 10 with 8773 views | GeoffSentence |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:52 - Aug 9 by ElderGrizzly |
Video appears to show a white person, but could be a very light skinned BAME i guess.
Reason for stop was the reg plate, not the people which they couldn’t see from behind. And their reasoning was a lot of drugs issues coming into Hackney from outside.
She does appear to be spoiling for a fight, when nothing is there on this occasion. She is a huge opponent of stop and search too which is probably behind her approach here. [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 23:53]
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It is also very strange that in the guardian video she seems to be in the driver's seat, in the anonjourno video she appears to be in the passenger seat. There is some fairly nefarious editing going on there and one or the other of them is guilty of generating 'fake news'. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 08:43 - Aug 10 with 8756 views | Herbivore |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 08:42 - Aug 10 by GeoffSentence |
It is also very strange that in the guardian video she seems to be in the driver's seat, in the anonjourno video she appears to be in the passenger seat. There is some fairly nefarious editing going on there and one or the other of them is guilty of generating 'fake news'. |
She has said throughout that she was the passenger and her friend was driving. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:07 - Aug 10 with 8679 views | GeoffSentence |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 08:43 - Aug 10 by Herbivore |
She has said throughout that she was the passenger and her friend was driving. |
The video has been flipped though, someone is trying to make it look like she was the driver, The Grauniad maybe.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2020 9:09]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:16 - Aug 10 with 8639 views | Pendejo |
The only thing I get from that clip is, she doesn't appear to allow the PC to respond to her questions.... But then as an MP she probably doesn't expect a clear and honest answer.
It's a shame she's captured the headlines, when prevention of violence should be the number one topic in London
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53710675
Or UK wide
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53717449
The police have stop and search procedures, and provide form 5090 to explain why. On this form it specifically excluded how a person looks.
The argument about black people and expensive cars is bowlox (in London at least) amongst my neighbours there are many drivers of such cars under 3 years old and the sheer number I see on the roads of South London mean the police don't have time or resources to stop them all.
The last person in my area that I know if being convicted of drug dealing drove a scrappy Nissan Primera. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:32 - Aug 10 with 8536 views | Herbivore |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:07 - Aug 10 by GeoffSentence |
The video has been flipped though, someone is trying to make it look like she was the driver, The Grauniad maybe.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2020 9:09]
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That is odd. It goes against her story so not sure what their motivation would be. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:42 - Aug 10 with 8505 views | SouperJim |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:07 - Aug 10 by GeoffSentence |
The video has been flipped though, someone is trying to make it look like she was the driver, The Grauniad maybe.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2020 9:09]
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The video in the OP is definitely the correct orientation as you can see the coppers badges on his left breast (the correct side). Hard to tell the ethnicity of the driver.
The jury is still out on this one for me. Impossible to know whether the ethnicity of the occupants had any bearing on the stop or not, clearly she has an axe to grind but with good cause. It wouldn't surprise me if they were stopped because they were people of colour driving a nice car, but equally it could be totally innocent. Unfortunately until we start to combat racial bias, these situations will continue to be a bone of contention. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:50 - Aug 10 with 8466 views | Herbivore |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:42 - Aug 10 by SouperJim |
The video in the OP is definitely the correct orientation as you can see the coppers badges on his left breast (the correct side). Hard to tell the ethnicity of the driver.
The jury is still out on this one for me. Impossible to know whether the ethnicity of the occupants had any bearing on the stop or not, clearly she has an axe to grind but with good cause. It wouldn't surprise me if they were stopped because they were people of colour driving a nice car, but equally it could be totally innocent. Unfortunately until we start to combat racial bias, these situations will continue to be a bone of contention. |
Yep, it's very difficult to know what the motivation for stopping them was. A lot of bias is unconscious so even if they were stopped because they were Black people driving a nice car it's unlikely that there was a conscious process going on from the officers that stopped them. They will likely have quickly and intuitively decided to check the number plate without even really thinking about it. That could be because, as they claim, there are issues with out of area drug dealers coming in, though presumably they don't check every number plate they see so this doesn't fully cut it. It's more likely that the quick decision to check that particular number plate was, to some degree, influenced by it being a nice car with Black people occupying it. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:51 - Aug 10 with 8468 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:52 - Aug 9 by ElderGrizzly |
Video appears to show a white person, but could be a very light skinned BAME i guess.
Reason for stop was the reg plate, not the people which they couldn’t see from behind. And their reasoning was a lot of drugs issues coming into Hackney from outside.
She does appear to be spoiling for a fight, when nothing is there on this occasion. She is a huge opponent of stop and search too which is probably behind her approach here. [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 23:53]
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She's spoiling for a fight and social media hits.
They pulled over a car with what appears from the video to have a white driver, and the police would have seen the same. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 9:52]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:04 - Aug 10 with 8254 views | kizaitfc |
NO SHE DIDN'T!
In her statement she said police officers stopped her "black male friend" who was driving a "nice car" and questioned her while she was in the passenger seat.
This is all social media lies, yes the video may have been edited but she was clear that she was in the passenger seat if people just read he statement |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:21 - Aug 10 with 8190 views | eireblue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:51 - Aug 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
She's spoiling for a fight and social media hits.
They pulled over a car with what appears from the video to have a white driver, and the police would have seen the same. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 9:52]
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You two need to decide what initially happened.
The police did see the driver, or the police entered the license plate when viewing the rear of the car, and couldn’t see the occupants? |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:30 - Aug 10 with 8157 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I am not sure she ever made out she was driving. It seemed obvious to me when I saw the footage that the man was behind the wheel. He looked probably white but wasn't clearly shown. I did feel she was possibly making more of it than it actually was for the following reasons:
the footage was clearly cut and did not show the whole incident;
the officer remained very calm and did not get at all defensive which in many of the more clearly profiled incidents they appear to have done.
If they were pulled over for no good reason but with the passenger being black playing some part, then it is still racist. However, without full context it is difficult to know here. She does have a vested interest too being shadow equalities minister. If she has misrepresented it then that is foolish and unfortunate. If she has misinterpreted the situation then it is unfortunate. If there is racial profiling here then the officers should be spoken to about it. The video is in and of itself at best unclear. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:32 - Aug 10 with 8145 views | monytowbray |
Who needs state sponsored propaganda when some citizens will do the job for free aye?
TWTD’s “yeah but” with racism is getting quite tiring.
I see Keir’s had FA to say so far. I guess the centralists have their corporate donor loving plant who won’t challenge the system too much in place though.
Roll on 30 years when we look back at this period during global food shortages and even grosser wealth equality than we have now. Perhaps then we can all say “perhaps we should have voted for the socialist?”
Bookmark this post. Revisiting old posts of mine is always a fun game of hindsight. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:34 - Aug 10 with 8130 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:30 - Aug 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I am not sure she ever made out she was driving. It seemed obvious to me when I saw the footage that the man was behind the wheel. He looked probably white but wasn't clearly shown. I did feel she was possibly making more of it than it actually was for the following reasons:
the footage was clearly cut and did not show the whole incident;
the officer remained very calm and did not get at all defensive which in many of the more clearly profiled incidents they appear to have done.
If they were pulled over for no good reason but with the passenger being black playing some part, then it is still racist. However, without full context it is difficult to know here. She does have a vested interest too being shadow equalities minister. If she has misrepresented it then that is foolish and unfortunate. If she has misinterpreted the situation then it is unfortunate. If there is racial profiling here then the officers should be spoken to about it. The video is in and of itself at best unclear. |
It's very difficult to know the what and why behind this. Pretty much impossible for any of us who weren't there. Won't stop people trying to twist it to suit their own agenda though. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:39 - Aug 10 with 8101 views | longtimefan |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:07 - Aug 10 by GeoffSentence |
The video has been flipped though, someone is trying to make it look like she was the driver, The Grauniad maybe.
[Post edited 10 Aug 2020 9:09]
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The original Guardian article that suggested she was driving has now been edited. | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:40 - Aug 10 with 8098 views | LankHenners |
"Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse". FFS surely you can see that's on a par with the 'I'm not racist but...' line that gets trotted out by, er, racists?
The Met's official statement says they entered the number plate on their computer wrong which showed the car as being registered in Yorkshire, without offering an explanation as to why it was checked in the first place or why being from Yorkshire is worth being stopped for.
Always the way with things like this that people far removed from any facet of the situation like to lecture the people involved (or have been involved in similar incidents) on why they're wrong. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:42 - Aug 10 with 8078 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:40 - Aug 10 by LankHenners |
"Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse". FFS surely you can see that's on a par with the 'I'm not racist but...' line that gets trotted out by, er, racists?
The Met's official statement says they entered the number plate on their computer wrong which showed the car as being registered in Yorkshire, without offering an explanation as to why it was checked in the first place or why being from Yorkshire is worth being stopped for.
Always the way with things like this that people far removed from any facet of the situation like to lecture the people involved (or have been involved in similar incidents) on why they're wrong. |
“The left and the right are two cheeks on the same arse” - Fence sitters and bootlickers, multiple years. | |
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