| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste 06:25 - Aug 8 with 2682 views | franz_tyson |
On BM, last night ( Ben and Mikey) gave bit a somewhat different attitude to all the euphoria of the Cajuste signing. Mikey in particular, was critical of his defensive weaknesses and his shooting. Was mentioned that Joe was a bit critical of him, too.
Have to admit.... I thought he was just OK (6/10). I don't understand why he's being lauded so much. He's got some lovely touches and looks a class act in periods - but he wasn't strong defensively and only had 1 goal and 1 assist to his name.
Was mentioned that Jens could well he an absolute star in the Championship because of the drop off in level and that's what I'm hoping. Sorry, Kieran absolutely rates him, and so does 95% of Town fans, but i just didn't think he was that good. Then again... who was?
Thought BM gave an honest appraisal of him and weren't trying to moan or stick the boot in. As am I. Just want a bit more output and a bit more grunt from him as well as the pretty stuff. |  | | |  |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:33 - Aug 8 with 2297 views | Vic |
Agreed. Every time I saw him i thought he looked class. But I agree that in the end his stats seemed to indicate that his impact on games wasnt that significant.
KM obviously saw/sees something different so I hope hes right! |  |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:34 - Aug 8 with 2281 views | FrimleyBlue |
Some good raised points
However
1. Morsy wasn't the most mobile partner so defending in the the prem as a midfielder whilst trying to transition into attacks was made even more difficult when you're covering your partner alot. ( not morsys fault btw)
2. Morsy was more of a roaming midfielder too restricting at times what we could get from cajuste.
Azor Is a more standard dm. So we should be able to see a more attacking version of cajuste.
Also. We are going into a championship season.
Last season cajuste was in the top 81% for
Successful dribbles. If he can replicate this at this level it will no doubt help us going forwards massively.
Much needs to be remembered the level we played last year. If cajust was in the top % of everything. There's not a hope he'd be back on loan this season. |  |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:35 - Aug 8 with 2290 views | PioneerBlue |
I don’t think this is wrong in the context of last season in the PL in amongst our team at that level. We as a squad were never able to reach takeoff velocity. However he was practically player of the season given hardly anyone excelled, it was only Delap’s emergence and DOS running him close. Looking at it that way KMck is the best view of his personality, character, capacity to execute plans, and future ceiling. If KMck believed he can adapt for the champ then I certainly have no worries! I’m looking forward to seeing a player who is 25 and has got PL, Serie A, Ligue 1 and full international experience trotting about in our midfield, well hopefully more than trotting about. | |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:37 - Aug 8 with 2278 views | ernie |
More of a measured reaction. He *should* be ridiculously too good for the championship but isn’t the answer if we go up again. Lots of nice touches but goes missing during games, tackling non existent and creates very little. Some of the overreaction to his signing has been hysterical. | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:41 - Aug 8 with 2252 views | stiff_talking |
Ben is from Stoke High (my school) so I will always love him. The show is always really good and essential watch:
I don’t agree that the assessment on Cajuste was negative. Positive comments were made and both men said they were just being honest !
Jen’s is a quality player and was playing in a 2 man midfield with limitations given McKenna cog system. All season long him and Morsy (aged 34) faced 3 opponents midfield and did what they could with what they had to work with. Jen’s was one of our best players. In time his real quality will be seen. And I’m glad we get another season with him! | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:51 - Aug 8 with 2099 views | bsw72 |
It’s difficult to judge the true quality of Cajuste is based on one PL season which he was initially carrying an injury, and the side was really struggling. I also think that while Morsy was a great captain, his character tended to smother others in midfield, by insisting on taking over.
I firmly believe that Cajuste without Morsy will be an improvement, my biggest question is whether the more agricultural style of the Championship may limit his impact. |  | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:54 - Aug 8 with 2061 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Context is needed. Last season was hard.
Morsy goal contribution was also 1 goal, 1 assist (from more minutes). Not a criticism of Morsy - just context of how last season played out. I expect Cajuste will be outstanding this season. | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:05 - Aug 8 with 1954 views | Jon_456 |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:34 - Aug 8 by FrimleyBlue |
Some good raised points
However
1. Morsy wasn't the most mobile partner so defending in the the prem as a midfielder whilst trying to transition into attacks was made even more difficult when you're covering your partner alot. ( not morsys fault btw)
2. Morsy was more of a roaming midfielder too restricting at times what we could get from cajuste.
Azor Is a more standard dm. So we should be able to see a more attacking version of cajuste.
Also. We are going into a championship season.
Last season cajuste was in the top 81% for
Successful dribbles. If he can replicate this at this level it will no doubt help us going forwards massively.
Much needs to be remembered the level we played last year. If cajust was in the top % of everything. There's not a hope he'd be back on loan this season. |
I hope you mean top 19% for dribbles otherwise that stat is pretty underwhelming.. | | | |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:16 - Aug 8 with 1842 views | _clive_baker_ |
Important to remember that we’re operating at a very different level this season. There aren’t many championship clubs who can get a 25 year old international out of Napoli to the championship.
Fitness is a concern for me, especially with a gruelling 46 game season but there’s no doubt in my mind Cajuste can be a top player at this level given what we saw last season. |  | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:16 - Aug 8 with 1839 views | bluelagos |
For me:
Looking at the role of midfield general, winning the ball, playing simple passes, linking defence to attack - this was what Sammy did brilliantly in the Championship.
And from what I saw, Cajuste was an upgrade on Sammy - did it better in the Prem. So can't see why Cajuste won't be a brilliant player in that role this season. |  |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:21 - Aug 8 with 1791 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:05 - Aug 8 by Jon_456 |
I hope you mean top 19% for dribbles otherwise that stat is pretty underwhelming.. |
Yeah sorry top 19% | |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:26 - Aug 8 with 1747 views | RegencyBlue |
McKenna managed him for a year and clearly wanted him back. That’s good enough for me! |  | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:43 - Aug 8 with 1630 views | _clive_baker_ |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:26 - Aug 8 by RegencyBlue |
McKenna managed him for a year and clearly wanted him back. That’s good enough for me! |
Yeah he’s hardly an unknown quantity. He’s spent a year here already and our manager has subsequently made no secret of the fact he’s wanted him back here since the day he left. I’ll trust his judgement on this one! | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:44 - Aug 8 with 1631 views | LankHenners |
It became something of a hipster opinion to start countering the praise Cajuste was getting by going a bit OTT in the other direction, which led to quite a bit of revisionism about how secure our left hand side was in the Championship last time out.
True enough he’s a midfielder that would probably work better in a 3 than a 2 but if you look at his stats for defensive contributions last season they’re among the best in the team. 1 goal and 1 assist isn’t very much obviously but Luongo registered 3 goals and zero assists in the same position in a weaker league so it’s clearly not a role we rely on for final third creativity.
Think his robustness/fitness (or lack of) has been overplayed as well - we managed him through an injury when he first arrived and still ended up with only half a dozen players playing more minutes than him. 46 game Championship season a bit different but we’re certainly looking for someone else to share the burden with him so that should take care of that ‘issue’. |  |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:50 - Aug 8 with 1546 views | Len_Brennan |
I get it, and was more ethusiastic about the prospect of us signing Hackney, despite an almost 3 times lsrger overall fee, for some of those very reasons.
I will say though, in Cajuste's defence, that there is little doubt as to his quality on the ball, or in his ability to win, retain & carry the ball in possession against Premier League opponents; this was something that many of our players struggled with last season. Cajuste had that PL level comfort in his play.
A lot was made of his lack of cover for Leif Davis in the LB position when Leif got forward, as this was something that Luongo had been doing when he was playing & therefore we were missing out on it when Cajuste played. This piece of analysis came in a podcast a few months in & was then regularly trotted out on forums/messageboards overcthe second half of the season, as our dismal run continued & we sought scapegoats.
Now I'm not saying that there isn't some truth in it, but I do think it's a bit unfair as Luongo hardly played in the PL, so we don't really know a) just how much of that cover he would have been able to provide at the higher level, & b) we were exposed a number of times when Leif went forward in the Championship too, and were even targeted by some in that area, it's just that we overlook it somewhat because he was so.effective in creating goals, and we weren't punished with goals against to the degree PL forwards were able to hurt us on the counter. The classic Southampton home game is an example, where a good side completely destroyed us down his side in attack, like some PL teams did, however he really hurt them going forward, which he was far less able to do in the PL. The cover from Luongo wasn't there in the first half as Southampton went at us down his side.
For me the problem we had in the PL, regarding the LB position, was that we needed to play 3 in midfield against that quality of opposition, if we were going to have Leif bombing forward & leaving gaps for the likes of an Mbeumo, a Savinho or a Jarred Bowen to attack you from. | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:53 - Aug 8 with 1496 views | homer_123 |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:44 - Aug 8 by LankHenners |
It became something of a hipster opinion to start countering the praise Cajuste was getting by going a bit OTT in the other direction, which led to quite a bit of revisionism about how secure our left hand side was in the Championship last time out.
True enough he’s a midfielder that would probably work better in a 3 than a 2 but if you look at his stats for defensive contributions last season they’re among the best in the team. 1 goal and 1 assist isn’t very much obviously but Luongo registered 3 goals and zero assists in the same position in a weaker league so it’s clearly not a role we rely on for final third creativity.
Think his robustness/fitness (or lack of) has been overplayed as well - we managed him through an injury when he first arrived and still ended up with only half a dozen players playing more minutes than him. 46 game Championship season a bit different but we’re certainly looking for someone else to share the burden with him so that should take care of that ‘issue’. |
I think people have somewhat forgotten the formation and tactic KM uses.
4-2-3-1.
KM uses the 2 as primarily 'holding' central midfielders that actually allow the full backs to get forward and support and contribute, the most obvious for us is Davis.
The primary role for the two central midfielders in this formation, is a defensive/ sitting when out of possession and when in possession a link between defence and the attacking midfielders. It's not where our creativity or goals come from - they protect and link. Protect the back four and allow the full backs to get forward and link play. That's not to say they can't contribute with a goal or progressive passes - but that would be secondary to their primary roles.
Cajuste fits this bill perfectly and I would say is an ideal partner to Matusiwa. [Post edited 8 Aug 7:58]
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 07:53 - Aug 8 with 1481 views | tcblue |
Well, they are the experts | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:09 - Aug 8 with 1050 views | Churchman |
Agreed. I don’t hold with the amount of blame heaping on Morsy. Sam tried to do the midfield dirty work, which was always what his game basically was. Hard to do, but crucial for a team to have a chance. It was for the non-existent but very well paid Phillips and Cajuste to unpick teams and for them all to blend in to create a midfield that hurt teams and protected the defence. They never came close.
20 mins of competing at best. We finished with people like Delap, Hutchinson and Clarke having to pick the call up from inside their own area running and hoping for the best. Home and away we were the away team, once the opposition realised there was nothing much to worry about.
The subdued outlook on Cajuste? Not heard BM yet, but even beyond dodgy fitness, I still have doubts about his effectiveness. Looking good on the run with the ball is exciting to see. No end product is not exciting at all.
However, the Championship is a long way from the Premier League. It’s far slower, less organised, poorer players basically. He might have more time to show what he can do and thoroughly demolish my doubts. I dearly hope so because unlike two seasons ago, we look less of a team and more of a collection of players, some of whom have eyes elsewhere.
I can’t wait to get this fixture out of the way. It couldn’t be worse, but given Birmingham are going almost certainly to be top six it’ll tell us where we are at this moment in time. |  | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:19 - Aug 8 with 934 views | Mullet |
I loved Jens the moment I saw him play and thought he was a joy to watch. He's also got a season or so playing alongside Azor in Ligue Une. I've got a feeling Jens won't play every game but doesn't need to.
His goal last season showed there's unreal potential there at this level. One thing he struggled with was covering Leif, but I also think Morsy was a tad overrated last season. Had any other player put that season in, I don't think they'd have got the plaudits Sam did.
We really struggled in the Prem ultimately and came undone thanks to Phillips being a dud. The fact KM loves Jens, he knows what's expected here and we are at a different level of quality makes me think it's far less to worry about.
I still find Taylor an enigma but if he can get more involved in games this season we might see KM chased him so much and find a role for him. Get a young Prem loanee or two in by the end of the window and I think we will be dominant. |  |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:19 - Aug 8 with 937 views | Libero |
Found that episode a hard watch, not just for the lack of clarity around the unwarranted negative comments about Cajuste but Ben must have banged on about 4-5 times piously about people getting ‘triggered’ in the chat, ironically to the point where it looked like he was rather triggered.
Cringed a bit when in defensive of something he pronounced his view as ‘realism’ too and while I bloody loved The Office, I think one “and that’s the real quiz” an episode is probably enough,
again it was used countless times.
Everyone has off days but that was a stinker.
Just one blokes opinion though, I know he’s previously whined on if anyone’s said anything less than flattering about the show on here- generally I really enjoy what they all do. [Post edited 8 Aug 9:21]
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:31 - Aug 8 with 776 views | Herbivore |
Cajuste is an excellent signing at this level. The comments about one goal and one assist I don't rate to be honest, as others have pointed out, it's not the role of the CMs in our system to be main sources of goals and assists. Luongo and Morsy were hardly prolific in that department and they get lauded. I think Cajuste gets judged more harshly because he clearly has a lot more natural ability, particularly going forward, than those two but he's essentially being asked to play the same role.
He is very good on the ball, can pick it up in tight spaces and move it on or carry it upfield himself. For those who say he can't tackle, I remember a goal saving sliding tackle from him when United broke on us at PR as we were chasing a winner. Showed great legs to get back and timed his challenge perfectly. He was good at intercepting the ball as well, it's not always about making tackles.
I don't really get the negativity in some quarters. He was one of the few players in our side last season who mostly looked able to compete in the Prem and didn't look out of his depth. That's why Brentford were so keen. Main issue for me is his fitness and durability, but hopefully we'll manage him well as we did last season. His quality isn't really in doubt, imo. |  |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:32 - Aug 8 with 746 views | davblue |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:19 - Aug 8 by Mullet |
I loved Jens the moment I saw him play and thought he was a joy to watch. He's also got a season or so playing alongside Azor in Ligue Une. I've got a feeling Jens won't play every game but doesn't need to.
His goal last season showed there's unreal potential there at this level. One thing he struggled with was covering Leif, but I also think Morsy was a tad overrated last season. Had any other player put that season in, I don't think they'd have got the plaudits Sam did.
We really struggled in the Prem ultimately and came undone thanks to Phillips being a dud. The fact KM loves Jens, he knows what's expected here and we are at a different level of quality makes me think it's far less to worry about.
I still find Taylor an enigma but if he can get more involved in games this season we might see KM chased him so much and find a role for him. Get a young Prem loanee or two in by the end of the window and I think we will be dominant. |
we already have 3 loans. Need to be careful on that front, i personally don't like too many, i appreciate the 3 we have got in a with a view to signing if we go up, but i would have 1 more high quality young player if possible and that would be my lot.
If we don't do up this season we would have to replace 3 to 4 players straight off the bat before we've looked and trying to improve the team. |  | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:35 - Aug 8 with 684 views | Mullet |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:32 - Aug 8 by davblue |
we already have 3 loans. Need to be careful on that front, i personally don't like too many, i appreciate the 3 we have got in a with a view to signing if we go up, but i would have 1 more high quality young player if possible and that would be my lot.
If we don't do up this season we would have to replace 3 to 4 players straight off the bat before we've looked and trying to improve the team. |
I think it's part and parcel of being a top club at Championship level. Prem clubs hoard more and more talent and they pay off the investment through loans.
I'd love us to look at Collyer at United if he was possible. He'd suit us perfectly and whilst he joined after McKenna would be schooled in a familiar way - likewise Obi might inly be 17 or so but is a real livewire.
Chucking him off the bench in games would be carnage. | |
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| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:37 - Aug 8 with 648 views | Libero |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:31 - Aug 8 by Herbivore |
Cajuste is an excellent signing at this level. The comments about one goal and one assist I don't rate to be honest, as others have pointed out, it's not the role of the CMs in our system to be main sources of goals and assists. Luongo and Morsy were hardly prolific in that department and they get lauded. I think Cajuste gets judged more harshly because he clearly has a lot more natural ability, particularly going forward, than those two but he's essentially being asked to play the same role.
He is very good on the ball, can pick it up in tight spaces and move it on or carry it upfield himself. For those who say he can't tackle, I remember a goal saving sliding tackle from him when United broke on us at PR as we were chasing a winner. Showed great legs to get back and timed his challenge perfectly. He was good at intercepting the ball as well, it's not always about making tackles.
I don't really get the negativity in some quarters. He was one of the few players in our side last season who mostly looked able to compete in the Prem and didn't look out of his depth. That's why Brentford were so keen. Main issue for me is his fitness and durability, but hopefully we'll manage him well as we did last season. His quality isn't really in doubt, imo. |
Spot on, just to add to this, he’s just turned 25, his prime years are ahead of him!
You’ve got to remember, Napoli purchased him the year *after* the won the title, they thought he would go into a Serie A winning squad and improve it- I believe they had a change of manager and the new bloke (Conte?) didn’t fancy Jens, their loss has been our gain- I’m sure he will put in a number of dominating performances this season. | | | |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 09:37 - Aug 8 with 647 views | HighgateBlue |
| Blue Monday - subdued outlook on Cajuste on 06:54 - Aug 8 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Context is needed. Last season was hard.
Morsy goal contribution was also 1 goal, 1 assist (from more minutes). Not a criticism of Morsy - just context of how last season played out. I expect Cajuste will be outstanding this season. |
I agree. But then, I also think Morsy would have been outstanding too. I'm confused at his departure, and I'm confused that more people aren't confused. |  | | |
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