| Labour need a new leader 06:14 - May 6 with 14360 views | gtsb1966 |
and fast. Yesterday's results are proving that. He just doesn't resonate with the electorate unfortunately. The only way to get this rabble out is for a new labour leader. I just hope it happens because if it doesn't this excuse of government will get another five years. |  | | |  |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:34 - May 6 with 1068 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:05 - May 6 by wkj |
The inference of this reply is enough. Also, the lack of apology after I made it very clear I was not creating a "WTF" narative. [Post edited 6 May 2022 12:08]
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It was a poor choice of words and insensitive from you just minutes after David Amos had been stabbed to death. There was no inference that it as political point scoring. That you partially rectified your wording didn't really warrant an apology imo.
Slightly odd that you are rehashing that thread in response to your original statement that Lowhouse was very pro Tory.
He isn't and you weren't political point scoring when David Amos was murdered. |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:34 - May 6 with 1074 views | itfcjoe |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:02 - May 6 by wkj |
I do like to throw a challenge out every now and again, perhaps a little less often and a little less emotive than my former LBF colleagues (they kicked me out). One thing I am absolutely convinced of is that people are becoming increasingly less certain about what they support politically, but much much much more convinced about why certain political points or ideas should be shut down.
We're gleefully dancing to the tune of "I wont tell you why you should vote for me, but I will tell you why you shouldn't vote for the other guy". In just 10 years we've adopted American style politics, and it sucks. |
Some people are looking for a party where they agree with 100% of their policies and views - it just isn't realistic.
People vote for the Tories because on balance they agree with more of their views than they do Labour and vice versa.
It's a direction of travel, not a destination - Labour still broadly stand for what they always have and so do the Tories |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:35 - May 6 with 1066 views | itfcjoe |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:06 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Exactly, it's been a big problem for Labour that Burnham didn't want to stand, as people can see from his Mayoral actions, speeches, responses etc. exactly the kind of impassioned, fiery good sense & intelligence that's needed, and I'm afraid (because I like Starmer's analytical precision & decency) which is lacking in Starmer, who isn't dynamic enough & thus isn't engaging enough people. |
But Burnham has only become this since given the freedom of being a Mayor rather than an MP to find that | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:40 - May 6 with 1047 views | Ryorry |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:35 - May 6 by itfcjoe |
But Burnham has only become this since given the freedom of being a Mayor rather than an MP to find that |
Fair point. I seriously hope he throws his hat in the ring if there is a contest tho - this country really needs him, I'm sure he can see that (sorry Manchester!) |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:40 - May 6 with 1043 views | wkj |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:34 - May 6 by itfcjoe |
Some people are looking for a party where they agree with 100% of their policies and views - it just isn't realistic.
People vote for the Tories because on balance they agree with more of their views than they do Labour and vice versa.
It's a direction of travel, not a destination - Labour still broadly stand for what they always have and so do the Tories |
It's not about agreeing with 100% policies, its about the expectation that a party will put some effort into their manifesto and actually make their goals very clear. Boris' napkin manifesto was downright fiction in parts - that is to say, they never had a desire to try and accomplish some of the items on it rather than over-promising.
The rise of 'voting people off the island' has engrained a sensitivity in people to 'fear the other guy' more than supporting a narrative. I have absolutely no problem in challenging that, as people are at the best when they're curious - not when they're being force fed fear. |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:46 - May 6 with 1034 views | wkj |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:34 - May 6 by GlasgowBlue |
It was a poor choice of words and insensitive from you just minutes after David Amos had been stabbed to death. There was no inference that it as political point scoring. That you partially rectified your wording didn't really warrant an apology imo.
Slightly odd that you are rehashing that thread in response to your original statement that Lowhouse was very pro Tory.
He isn't and you weren't political point scoring when David Amos was murdered. |
Nope, it wasn't a poor choice of the word at all. It was a poor understanding from you of how a word was being used. I brought up this post again to highlight a very important point about how misconception, even when done in jest or with a sense of irony, can create a very different picture.
Also, using the word Nazi as a throwaway jibe as you did earlier in this post could be seen as childish and borderline offensive to some. I would have thought that your period of reflection would lead you away from relying on using such garish conjecture. [Post edited 7 May 2022 0:32]
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:47 - May 6 with 1030 views | Ryorry |
| Labour need a new leader on 07:15 - May 6 by Chrisd |
Labour have made gains so far, but quite minor. The Tories are the big losers no doubt, but Labour surely must be questioning where they go from here? If they can’t make significant gains after what has happened over recent months then they really have got problems. It’s their best chance right now, but they seem incapable of grasping this huge opportunity even with the Tories’ continuous faux pas! |
Losing their traditional Scottish voters to the SNP has been a massive factor for Labour, they really need to find way/s to replenish their numbers with or without those seats. Unfortunately I fear their internal divisions would mean possible alternatives like coalition/s wouldn't even get off the ground for them. | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:54 - May 6 with 1008 views | EastTownBlue |
As the Torygraph are reporting that Durham police are going to look at "beergate" again, perhaps they will get a new leader.
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:56 - May 6 with 1002 views | Ryorry |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:54 - May 6 by EastTownBlue |
As the Torygraph are reporting that Durham police are going to look at "beergate" again, perhaps they will get a new leader.
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Ridiculous smear, but I do wonder if that much-publicised allegation had something to do with Labour's less than overwhelming night? | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 12:59 - May 6 with 992 views | chicoazul |
If they had a working class woman in charge they would be much better placed but the Labour Party are utterly useless at strategy now. |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:12 - May 6 with 965 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:06 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Exactly, it's been a big problem for Labour that Burnham didn't want to stand, as people can see from his Mayoral actions, speeches, responses etc. exactly the kind of impassioned, fiery good sense & intelligence that's needed, and I'm afraid (because I like Starmer's analytical precision & decency) which is lacking in Starmer, who isn't dynamic enough & thus isn't engaging enough people. |
Problem is that Starmer isn’t decent – even by political standards. He’s an opportunist and a liar who will change positions at the drop of the hat and hope nobody notices.
That lack of principles and personal vision is as much as anything the reason that his leadership lacks any passion, substance or compelling vision for voters. There’s just nothing there beyond some vague technocratic appeal to competence, which itself is looking increasingly shaky.
It’s only the worst PM, the worst cabinet and the worst, most apathetic political discourse in history that gives him a polling lead. |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:15 - May 6 with 952 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour need a new leader on 07:15 - May 6 by Chrisd |
Labour have made gains so far, but quite minor. The Tories are the big losers no doubt, but Labour surely must be questioning where they go from here? If they can’t make significant gains after what has happened over recent months then they really have got problems. It’s their best chance right now, but they seem incapable of grasping this huge opportunity even with the Tories’ continuous faux pas! |
Yesterday should be seen in the context of the limited number of places voting - and the results highlight how 'power' must reside with the voters, not a half cozen, horse trading, in a back room as some of the clueless would have.
What has come out clear in the result so far is an anti Tory vote, prepared to 'hold their nose' and vote whoever it tales to remove Tories. Far better that than to simply hand over their votes to have an unknown candidate foistered on them, and to be in a coalition (2010/2015) they had no say in.
The bigot vote has no 'gone away' and will be pandered to, with success, by the Tories. Cynics might suggest it is not in the interest of Tories to curb the number of immigrants arriving by boat, and failed loony ideas such as shipping them off to Rwanda work for them
Expect more 'rightie' ideas to surface over the coming months, with the EU being blamed for chaos at the ports, shortage of labour on farms and hospitality - and the suggested re-introduction of anything that smacks of the 1950s, Grammar schools, smog and rickets.
The real task is to enthuse those under 25 to stand up and be counted. This is their future at stake and should not be left to the over 65s who have 'had their time' | | | |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:19 - May 6 with 944 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:12 - May 6 by Darth_Koont |
Problem is that Starmer isn’t decent – even by political standards. He’s an opportunist and a liar who will change positions at the drop of the hat and hope nobody notices.
That lack of principles and personal vision is as much as anything the reason that his leadership lacks any passion, substance or compelling vision for voters. There’s just nothing there beyond some vague technocratic appeal to competence, which itself is looking increasingly shaky.
It’s only the worst PM, the worst cabinet and the worst, most apathetic political discourse in history that gives him a polling lead. |
Got any evidence of these lies? We have plenty for the PM... |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:21 - May 6 with 938 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour need a new leader on 07:30 - May 6 by Plums |
Much as I like Starmer, I can’t help feeling that Burnham would put this Tory rabble to the sword and romp to number 10. |
Romping in number 10 is probably one of the few things Johnson's doing a lot of! |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:23 - May 6 with 932 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:34 - May 6 by itfcjoe |
Some people are looking for a party where they agree with 100% of their policies and views - it just isn't realistic.
People vote for the Tories because on balance they agree with more of their views than they do Labour and vice versa.
It's a direction of travel, not a destination - Labour still broadly stand for what they always have and so do the Tories |
Labour did used to stand for something. But New Labour took the traditional Labour heartland for granted, pitched right to get the middle-class marginals that we’re the battlegrounds back then, but never reversed that direction.
That resulted in them steadily losing votes, losing Scotland and also letting right-wing populism take over in their previous Labour strongholds.
It was only a shift towards social democracy in 2017 that brought voters back to the party. But that social democracy (and grassroots power) was such a threat to the party and media elites and their self-interest that they had to wreck it. Couple that sabotage with Brexit (that the People’s Vote and Starmer managed to wield as a weapon) and Boris is your blustering, fumbling uncle.
The fact that the “grownups” are now back in charge and intent on continuing the slide right should have alarm bells ringing as it does more than anything else to ensure the Tories will get yet another term. But as 2015-19 proved it was never about getting the Tories out but looking after their own narrow interests as the left of the establishment. | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:32 - May 6 with 894 views | mutters |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:15 - May 6 by HARRY10 |
Yesterday should be seen in the context of the limited number of places voting - and the results highlight how 'power' must reside with the voters, not a half cozen, horse trading, in a back room as some of the clueless would have.
What has come out clear in the result so far is an anti Tory vote, prepared to 'hold their nose' and vote whoever it tales to remove Tories. Far better that than to simply hand over their votes to have an unknown candidate foistered on them, and to be in a coalition (2010/2015) they had no say in.
The bigot vote has no 'gone away' and will be pandered to, with success, by the Tories. Cynics might suggest it is not in the interest of Tories to curb the number of immigrants arriving by boat, and failed loony ideas such as shipping them off to Rwanda work for them
Expect more 'rightie' ideas to surface over the coming months, with the EU being blamed for chaos at the ports, shortage of labour on farms and hospitality - and the suggested re-introduction of anything that smacks of the 1950s, Grammar schools, smog and rickets.
The real task is to enthuse those under 25 to stand up and be counted. This is their future at stake and should not be left to the over 65s who have 'had their time' |
I'd say the real task for any opposition party is to provide a viable alternative that connects with the voter no matter what age they are. Labour has failed to do this despite there being one of the worst governments in power for the last x number of years (the value of x is highly subjective). Where do they go from here? This should have been their moment to show real progress but failed to yet again connect with the general public.
Also to write of the over 65s who still have potentially many voting years still to come would be very politically naive. |  |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:33 - May 6 with 889 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:23 - May 6 by Darth_Koont |
Labour did used to stand for something. But New Labour took the traditional Labour heartland for granted, pitched right to get the middle-class marginals that we’re the battlegrounds back then, but never reversed that direction.
That resulted in them steadily losing votes, losing Scotland and also letting right-wing populism take over in their previous Labour strongholds.
It was only a shift towards social democracy in 2017 that brought voters back to the party. But that social democracy (and grassroots power) was such a threat to the party and media elites and their self-interest that they had to wreck it. Couple that sabotage with Brexit (that the People’s Vote and Starmer managed to wield as a weapon) and Boris is your blustering, fumbling uncle.
The fact that the “grownups” are now back in charge and intent on continuing the slide right should have alarm bells ringing as it does more than anything else to ensure the Tories will get yet another term. But as 2015-19 proved it was never about getting the Tories out but looking after their own narrow interests as the left of the establishment. |
‘That resulted in them…losing Scotland’
In 1992, the last election prior to New Labour, Labour held 39% of the vote in Scotland; the last New Labour election in 2010 saw them win 42%, and still firmly the main party. That % has subsequently been slashed under Milliband and Corbyn - sitting at just over 18% in 2019 where Labour were 4th in terms of seats
Why do you keep repeating this lie? [Post edited 6 May 2022 13:34]
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:37 - May 6 with 884 views | mutters |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:56 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Ridiculous smear, but I do wonder if that much-publicised allegation had something to do with Labour's less than overwhelming night? |
Attempted smear it may be but if the police think there is something to investigate then they have to do their duty. If they find him (and maybe Angela R?) guilty of breaking the lockdown rules then well that will make his position untenable | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:40 - May 6 with 861 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:19 - May 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Got any evidence of these lies? We have plenty for the PM... |
Yes. Broke every leadership pledge he was elected on. Lied by omission about his campaign donors. Lied about the Corbyn suspension. Lied about unity and is intent on purging the left. | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:42 - May 6 with 857 views | ElderGrizzly |
Basildon was the same. The Johnson apologists only have Brexit to hold onto. |  | | |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:43 - May 6 with 852 views | mutters |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:33 - May 6 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
‘That resulted in them…losing Scotland’
In 1992, the last election prior to New Labour, Labour held 39% of the vote in Scotland; the last New Labour election in 2010 saw them win 42%, and still firmly the main party. That % has subsequently been slashed under Milliband and Corbyn - sitting at just over 18% in 2019 where Labour were 4th in terms of seats
Why do you keep repeating this lie? [Post edited 6 May 2022 13:34]
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It's not just an old labour vs new labour vs momentum conversation, the rise in nationalism played a much bigger part here.
2005 SNP : 6 Seats
2010 SNP : 6 Seats
2015 SNP : 56 seats
Scottish referendum: 2014
All parties lost ground in Scotland, though as it was a more historical labour heartland they felt the most pain. Labours losses were not directly caused by what type of labour party were currently en vogue | |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:47 - May 6 with 847 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Labour need a new leader on 12:56 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Ridiculous smear, but I do wonder if that much-publicised allegation had something to do with Labour's less than overwhelming night? |
It's a ridiculous smear because what he did wasn't against the law at the time.
Johnson literally broke the law he set. | | | |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:49 - May 6 with 828 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:32 - May 6 by mutters |
I'd say the real task for any opposition party is to provide a viable alternative that connects with the voter no matter what age they are. Labour has failed to do this despite there being one of the worst governments in power for the last x number of years (the value of x is highly subjective). Where do they go from here? This should have been their moment to show real progress but failed to yet again connect with the general public.
Also to write of the over 65s who still have potentially many voting years still to come would be very politically naive. |
Given that Labour currently have more than double the Tory vote, including places like Westminster that have been Tory since 1964, AND most of the votes haven't been counted yet, in what way have they "failed"? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:52 - May 6 with 817 views | itfcjoe |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:37 - May 6 by mutters |
Attempted smear it may be but if the police think there is something to investigate then they have to do their duty. If they find him (and maybe Angela R?) guilty of breaking the lockdown rules then well that will make his position untenable |
He always went a bit too hard after Sunak, who it did/does seem was incredibly unfortunate to get a fine for turning up to a meeting early. If he were to get one then it's untenable really.
For all the talk of the smears Corbyn got, it's just what happens to a Labour leader.
When Boris was fined the Daily Mail had the headline @There is a war on' or something similar, whilst that same war rages they had Starmer on the front page and this story every day for a week - and now when the election has happened look at today's front page:
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| Labour need a new leader on 13:53 - May 6 with 804 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Labour need a new leader on 13:40 - May 6 by Darth_Koont |
Yes. Broke every leadership pledge he was elected on. Lied by omission about his campaign donors. Lied about the Corbyn suspension. Lied about unity and is intent on purging the left. |
I asked for evidence not you just listing stuff. Let's start with some links to some leadership pledges he's proven to have lied on. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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