| So… 09:11 - May 7 with 5708 views | chicoazul |
…. Is it going to be a large scale restructuring of the squad and team, 8 or so brand new first 11 players? Or will it be a bit more pared back with just a few key additions? Much has been made of how many of our players played in league one before conquering the championship, will we see the same approach?
Seem to think Burnley have done the former and Luton the latter this year and neither look like succeeding. What’s it gonna be boyos? |  |
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| So… on 12:11 - May 7 with 1082 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| So… on 11:51 - May 7 by Trequartista |
Personally though, I think we need 9 signings to compete including Sarmiento and Hutchinson. Plus an old third keeper on a free.
GK,
OldGK,
RB,
LB cover,
CB,
CM,
Sarmiento,
Hutchinson,
ACM
CF
GK, Hladcky, OldGK, RB, Clarke, Davis, LB, CB, Burgess, Woolfenden, Tuanzebe, Morsy, CM, Taylor, Luongo, Burns, Broadhead, Chaplin, Hutchinson, Sarmiento, ACM, CF, Hirst
Goodbye to Walton, Edmondson, Ball, Harness, Moore, Williams, Donacien, Travis, Jackson, Aluko, Ladapo
Loan out Al-Hamadi, Humphreys, Slicker, Baggott etc
Not sure about Luongo, I would have said Humphreys a year ago, but he definitely needs a loan move now having missed so much football kicking around on the sidelines [Post edited 7 May 11:56]
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That only leaves us a first team squad of 23. Luton, Burnley, Sheff U are all 28+.
At a minimum we will have a registered prem squad of 25 which is the current limit and that will be supplemented by a younger group that might include Al-Hamidi, Slicker etc to take us up towards 28-30.
Personally think Edmundson will almost certainly stick around. I actually think he's quite well suited to the athleticism/ running power required at the top level. |  | | |
| So… on 12:14 - May 7 with 1040 views | ITFCBlues |
| So… on 11:23 - May 7 by jayessess |
Think we'd be foolish to get too ruthless really.
Think it's very easy to assume that an expensive signing is always going to be better than the players you've got from humble origins, but most clubs discover it's pretty easy to spend a lot of money for not much benefit. In the transfer market you're competing with another 12 other teams (more or less) looking for the same thing - players that impact top level games. We've got no special advantage on that front.
Where we do have a special advantage is the manager, his tactics, his coaching, the player's knowledge of all that, their togetherness, spirit and our momentum. In addition to good recruitment, we'll need to bring every ounce of that to bear. That'll mean getting the absolute maximum out of the players we've already got and signalling to the squad that they're not going to be cast off on a whim. |
Thing is, it's not even about being ruthless. You can see from the various lists on this thread that there 8-10 players out of contract that'll need replacing anyway.
It's also debatable / asking a lot to expect KM to tactically outwit all of these other top class experienced managers who in most cases will have better players than us. This isn't L1 or the Championship, if you go in without the right tools, you're asking to be relegated. See Norwich in recent years. |  |
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| So… on 12:22 - May 7 with 1021 views | SomethingBlue |
Feels like seven or eight coming in, for me, and maybe a few more as development prospects to be loaned out. I would imagine three or four nailed-on starters plus a few others to put pressure on our better/older players. Seems like the right rate of evolution to me - we'll need to strike a balance that not many get spot on. McKenna has juiced everything out of these guys and I imagine those he thinks have topped out will not last too much longer. But I trust us to handle it well. Owners would spend very serious money if they could but it's likely the PSR rules will be unfriendly to us so we may yet have to wheel and deal a bit. | |
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| So… on 12:40 - May 7 with 962 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| So… on 09:20 - May 7 by Asa |
I hated the fact that Greg Leigh, Richard Keogh (more for his off-field influence), Kyle Edwards (one of the most likeable players we've ever had) were casualties of a promotion but that's football.
The fact that we will now inevitably part with some back to back promotion legends will make it very, very tough to say goodbye. But I completely trust those at the top to replace suitably with the next batch of likeable players that have the talent, attitude and buy in to the club as a whole.
Every time I think Chaplin, Broadhead, Clarke etc won't cut it in the division above, I think back to how I thought the same about players like Burgess, Hladky, even Luongo at the top of the Championship. You only have to look at Forest and Luton, Bournemouth and Brentford to see far less heralded Championship players that stepped up and look the part.
I could see 5/6 new signings all intended to be first team regulars at RB, CB, CM, LF, 10 and ST with maybe Hladky, Davis, Morsy, Burns and maybe Hutchison seen as those who will likely be expected to play big roles, with everywhere else up for the existing players to try and force their way into the XI.
The likes of Harness, Ball will likely be off and the likes of Edmundson and Jackson might be the sorts that don't make the bench but are ready to step in at any point.
Could see us signing 3 players for £5m - £10m, 3 for £10m - £15m and then a couple of top loans. So the 8 or so now like Aluko, Ball, Humphreys etc would likely move on (retire in Sone's case), leave on a free in Ball's case, go out on loan in Humphreys case and we'd look to keep 2/3 of the squad these same players but bring in quality for the first team with a mix of sellable assets and a few old heads and proven Premier League performers. |
What we will need is youth and pace to be competitive for the whole season. |  | | |
| So… on 12:44 - May 7 with 947 views | southnorfolkblue |
| So… on 09:19 - May 7 by FrimleyBlue |
Players who i think we will be first on teamsheet
Tuenzebe
Edmundson
Morsy
Hutchinson
Davis
Hirst |
Edmundson ahead of Burgess?
Can't see him being ahead of Wolf either tbh | |
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| So… on 12:58 - May 7 with 890 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| So… on 12:44 - May 7 by southnorfolkblue |
Edmundson ahead of Burgess?
Can't see him being ahead of Wolf either tbh |
They are all top top champ defenders now and have done a superb job for us but all 3 of Burg, Edmundson & Woolfy have a lack of pace that does worry me at the top level.
Wholesale changing the entire defence feels like it could end up really disjointed. I wonder if we may revert to a back 3 with wing backs like early McKenna teams. | | | |
| There won't be a Forest style spree on 13:00 - May 7 with 886 views | Europablue |
| There won't be a Forest style spree on 09:22 - May 7 by _clive_baker_ |
He really is, but he can only p1ss with the c0ck he's got, so will need backing. The jump to the premier league is scary, there's a reason all 3 promoted teams last season are likely coming straight back, and none look likely to even reach 30 points.
Give McKenna what he wants, because as we know, he knows exactly what we need. |
The big test to going up a league is whether your game plan is adaptable for the league above. We changed our style from all out dominating the opposition with huge possession in League One to starters and finishers and tiring out the opposition. It seems like Burnley have struggled and not adapted well enough. A key thing will be how we deal with a run of losses. Undoubtedly our record of never losing two in a row will end and we will have to be mentally strong to brush off a couple of defeats to respond in the games that we are competitive in (I'm not necessarily talking about specific opponents, more about when the match is going to plan).
Forest will be relegation candidates again next year because the owner is meddling too much. | | | |
| So… on 13:15 - May 7 with 849 views | Exiled2Surrey |
| So… on 10:39 - May 7 by chicoazul |
Hladky leaving. Back to Scotland, believe his other half is from there. |
This has had no reaction from anyone else - is that because it is understood generally to be true (and I haven't heard it because I live under a rock), because no-one has read the comment, or because no-one wants to consider this painful possibility? | | | |
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| So… on 13:30 - May 7 with 819 views | Europablue |
| So… on 10:23 - May 7 by portmanking |
Abso-fecking-lutely.
Look at that list and tell me which calls I've made wrong? Then look at the number of signings made by promoted clubs in the last 5-10 years. A dozen is needed just to cover the general squad churn, without even discussing the need for a few seasoned PL campaigners in there.
If you think we're making 2-3 signings, we'd get the record low points total, guaranteed. You cannot stand still in that division. Norwich have proved that multiple times. McKenna and Ashton won't make that mistake. It's not 2000 anymore. |
That's a realistic appraisal of the squad even if I would disagree about one or two.
I think people are thinking about the starting line up assuming Hutchinson and Sarmiento stay on in some capacity, so maybe 2 or 3 is realistic there, only that doesn't account for injuries. We need to have a surplus of players to get us through to the January window.
We will be playing much fewer matches, so that will help a bit.
My appraisal is that we have a mid-table Championship side that have been coached to be a top Championship side. We need to be a 17th place quality Prem side that can be coached to mid-table.
Realistically, it's going to be quite a sad summer because a lot of the players will be out, and the majority of the starting line up will become squad players.
Anyway, there is no-one better placed than McKenna to make the tough calls. | | | |
| So… on 13:39 - May 7 with 800 views | Kropotkin123 |
I think the core of our squad is anyone playing more than 1000 minutes. So this list.
Which would make this list at risk of being replaced, if we find a suitable upgrade.
If we find a suitable upgrade, the new players will unlikely be guaranteed a start. See how Taylor was bought in for Evans, to compete with Luongo, and Luongo won that competition this season. Taylor may yet win it next season, as he continues to develop.
I don't think it will ever be a simple in and out scenario with the first team. See any of the players this season and how long they've had to break in.
So most a risk of going would be Aluko (already retired), Humphreys (loan), Ball, Donacien.
Then it is harder to call as I think it will depend on who comes in and who is out of contract. But Harness, Jackson, and Edmundson would be at risk this window or the next.
Based on this we can expect to see a FW, CM, RB. We may see 2 more FW, and a CB.
This shouldn't be a surprise, as we had Hutchinson (FW), Sarmiento (FW), Moore (S), Tuanzebe (CB, RB), Williams (RB), and Travis (CM) on loan this season.
Arguably we were short of two S at the start of this season, so we will likely look for one there too. [Post edited 7 May 13:44]
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| There won't be a Forest style spree on 13:40 - May 7 with 789 views | Europablue |
| There won't be a Forest style spree on 11:08 - May 7 by Bellevue_Blue |
I'm not sure the difference in pay would be as significant as you make out.
Additionally, is there a huge gulf between maybe having the opportunity to potentially play Champo League football (who knows what chances he gets in that team! They are semi finalists for a reason!) and definitely playing Premier League football week in week out?
For a lad who has grown up dreaming up of playing in the Prem, I think coming back here with an acceptable relegation release clause, playing for a manager who has brought you on heaps in a team you thrive in would be a pretty attractive proposition. Add in the fact he's still close to friends/ family etc etc
A lot more in our favour than you maybe make out. |
Hutchinson seems to be the ruthless type. I appreciate what he's done for us and he will appreciate how he has improved, but I know he won't stay on with us for sentimental reasons. He should back himself to get into the Chelsea team first of all. If he did come to us it would be a late addition after the loanees have been judged and he will see how our squad is taking shape. He's only young, but I think he has a solid head on his shoulders and he will have a lot of interest. It wouldn't surprise me if a team like Newcastle or Aston Villa came in for him. | | | |
| So… on 13:55 - May 7 with 718 views | jayessess |
| So… on 12:14 - May 7 by ITFCBlues |
Thing is, it's not even about being ruthless. You can see from the various lists on this thread that there 8-10 players out of contract that'll need replacing anyway.
It's also debatable / asking a lot to expect KM to tactically outwit all of these other top class experienced managers who in most cases will have better players than us. This isn't L1 or the Championship, if you go in without the right tools, you're asking to be relegated. See Norwich in recent years. |
When we got promoted last season, a lot of people were saying the same thing!
100% McKenna's going to have to outwit a lot of managers next season to get us anywhere, there's no conceivable scenario where we recruit so brilliantly that isn't the case. The club will do their best to provide him the best possible tools and I'm sure there'll significant numbers of players coming in (8 at least, I'd guess). But the volume isn't going to be key, there's a lot of players in the lower PL/upper Championship range where there isn't that massive gulf in quality. We'd be happy to sign someone like Ben Sheaf, but Luongo and Morsy competed with him just fine with him twice this season.
The key isn't getting 10/15/20 new players from the Championship or middling European leagues who might have marginally better underlying ability to your current players, it's getting 1/2/3 players who really elevate your starting eleven - like Fulham getting Palhinha. [Post edited 7 May 13:56]
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| There won't be a Forest style spree on 14:00 - May 7 with 698 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| There won't be a Forest style spree on 13:40 - May 7 by Europablue |
Hutchinson seems to be the ruthless type. I appreciate what he's done for us and he will appreciate how he has improved, but I know he won't stay on with us for sentimental reasons. He should back himself to get into the Chelsea team first of all. If he did come to us it would be a late addition after the loanees have been judged and he will see how our squad is taking shape. He's only young, but I think he has a solid head on his shoulders and he will have a lot of interest. It wouldn't surprise me if a team like Newcastle or Aston Villa came in for him. |
I absolutely agree but I don't think we should be talking about this as an achievable deal. It's quite the opposite, it's very achievable. Modern contracts mean it's very very easy to get out of certain situations (eg Leeds relegation loan clauses) and he/ Chelsea could very easily protect themselves with buy back/ relegation clauses etc that they/ he wouldn't get from the other clubs we are talking about.
I do think he will certainly head back to Chelsea with the intention of being involved with them, however It's not easy to see his path to first team minutes with Madueke, Palmer, Mudryk occupying his natural positions and that's before they spend the usual 200 odd million on reinforcements. | | | |
| So… on 14:04 - May 7 with 676 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| So… on 13:39 - May 7 by Kropotkin123 |
I think the core of our squad is anyone playing more than 1000 minutes. So this list.
Which would make this list at risk of being replaced, if we find a suitable upgrade.
If we find a suitable upgrade, the new players will unlikely be guaranteed a start. See how Taylor was bought in for Evans, to compete with Luongo, and Luongo won that competition this season. Taylor may yet win it next season, as he continues to develop.
I don't think it will ever be a simple in and out scenario with the first team. See any of the players this season and how long they've had to break in.
So most a risk of going would be Aluko (already retired), Humphreys (loan), Ball, Donacien.
Then it is harder to call as I think it will depend on who comes in and who is out of contract. But Harness, Jackson, and Edmundson would be at risk this window or the next.
Based on this we can expect to see a FW, CM, RB. We may see 2 more FW, and a CB.
This shouldn't be a surprise, as we had Hutchinson (FW), Sarmiento (FW), Moore (S), Tuanzebe (CB, RB), Williams (RB), and Travis (CM) on loan this season.
Arguably we were short of two S at the start of this season, so we will likely look for one there too. [Post edited 7 May 13:44]
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This is the best way of looking at it.
If your minutes were high in the Championship, it suggests the management trust you and you're better than your competition. For the odd exception, like Hutchinson, a young player in his first full season, his minutes needed to be tapered to reduce burnout early on - but based on those final 2-3 months for us, he's going to be heavily involved if he rejoins.
From Harness to Walton, every name is at risk. None of those players will play more minutes in the Premier League than what they did this season. From Hladky to Moore, half of them will play similar minutes, the other half will play less because we have signed improvements in competition for their places. It's as simple as that.
If we want to reward the current squad and give them their moment in the Prem without improving the squad, we will be straight back down. It is what it is but it's a real good opportunity to sign some players who we can develop and increase their value in the long term - like Davis. |  |
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| There won't be a Forest style spree on 14:14 - May 7 with 633 views | jayessess |
| There won't be a Forest style spree on 14:00 - May 7 by Bellevue_Blue |
I absolutely agree but I don't think we should be talking about this as an achievable deal. It's quite the opposite, it's very achievable. Modern contracts mean it's very very easy to get out of certain situations (eg Leeds relegation loan clauses) and he/ Chelsea could very easily protect themselves with buy back/ relegation clauses etc that they/ he wouldn't get from the other clubs we are talking about.
I do think he will certainly head back to Chelsea with the intention of being involved with them, however It's not easy to see his path to first team minutes with Madueke, Palmer, Mudryk occupying his natural positions and that's before they spend the usual 200 odd million on reinforcements. |
I think it's easy to overestimate how interested clubs are in the performances of their loan players in lower divisions, especially the big 6.
Amad Diallo was the standout loan player in the Championship last season, better numbers than Omari in a worse team. United would have loaned him out again this year if not for injuries and will probably sell him in the Summer. The youngsters they really think to be first team ready tend to stay (like Garnacho, Pellistri, Mainoo, Kumbwala).
They're much more likely to see Hutchinson's good loan as a means to generate some transfer income, rather than a realistic path to their first team. [Post edited 7 May 14:19]
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| So… on 14:17 - May 7 with 609 views | Kev_W |
| So… on 13:55 - May 7 by jayessess |
When we got promoted last season, a lot of people were saying the same thing!
100% McKenna's going to have to outwit a lot of managers next season to get us anywhere, there's no conceivable scenario where we recruit so brilliantly that isn't the case. The club will do their best to provide him the best possible tools and I'm sure there'll significant numbers of players coming in (8 at least, I'd guess). But the volume isn't going to be key, there's a lot of players in the lower PL/upper Championship range where there isn't that massive gulf in quality. We'd be happy to sign someone like Ben Sheaf, but Luongo and Morsy competed with him just fine with him twice this season.
The key isn't getting 10/15/20 new players from the Championship or middling European leagues who might have marginally better underlying ability to your current players, it's getting 1/2/3 players who really elevate your starting eleven - like Fulham getting Palhinha. [Post edited 7 May 13:56]
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The last paragraph feels right. Adding X number of good Championship players to the squad seems an unlikely formula. Sure we could recruit some to bolster the squad but the price being asked for the best players is high. My guess would be that we try to keep most of the current loanees as a starting point and then add 2 or 3 players with decent PL experience who lift the level of the starting team. Add to that some strong Championship performers plus a couple of new loans and that could be it.
We need to strengthen almost every position/increase the cover where we are thin on the ground e.g. left back. I'd suggest midfield is the priority to add both an attacking midfielder and one or more who can play in the Morsy/Luongo roles. There is a good case for signing Travis assuming he is OK with the possibility of a squad rather than starting role. A sensible fee with Blackburn is also a prerequite. He has performed OK when needed and some depth in that centre midfield area is surely crucial as we look to tighten defensively. | | | |
| So… on 14:30 - May 7 with 555 views | GeoffSentence |
| So… on 11:08 - May 7 by yorkshireblue |
We can only sign two players on loan. |
For some reason, I'm a little out of touch with Premier League rules. |  |
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| So… on 14:35 - May 7 with 536 views | OldFart71 |
Bit early to say really as we don't know whether we will get Hutchinson and Sarmiento next season. We can guess who will leave. Think I am right that Aluko has already gone so to speak. Ball, Jackson, Donacien, Ladapo, Walton or even Hladky ? Baggott possibly although I thought I saw a player in him against Fulham. I don't see Moore coming back either on loan or permanently. He was a great fill in for Hirst but perhaps someone a bit more mobile. We would need a fullback as cover and I feel another centre back. With stronger and more mobile player in the Prem I have doubts about Woolfy. But what do I know. Whilst we have McKenna and Ashton I am sure they will get it right. | | | |
| So… on 14:40 - May 7 with 518 views | jayessess |
| So… on 14:17 - May 7 by Kev_W |
The last paragraph feels right. Adding X number of good Championship players to the squad seems an unlikely formula. Sure we could recruit some to bolster the squad but the price being asked for the best players is high. My guess would be that we try to keep most of the current loanees as a starting point and then add 2 or 3 players with decent PL experience who lift the level of the starting team. Add to that some strong Championship performers plus a couple of new loans and that could be it.
We need to strengthen almost every position/increase the cover where we are thin on the ground e.g. left back. I'd suggest midfield is the priority to add both an attacking midfielder and one or more who can play in the Morsy/Luongo roles. There is a good case for signing Travis assuming he is OK with the possibility of a squad rather than starting role. A sensible fee with Blackburn is also a prerequite. He has performed OK when needed and some depth in that centre midfield area is surely crucial as we look to tighten defensively. |
Think what I'm wary of is the idea that you can go out and easily get 10 (or more!) players and expect that most of them will comfortably improve your squad.
Last time the scum were in the Premier League they brought in 11 players in the Summer Window (7 permanent, 4 loans) at a cost of £55m+, mostly from the Bundesliga, the Greek Super League and the EFL. Not only did the players not particularly improve them at the time, there are very few that became significant longer term assets. Of the 7 permanent signings, I think probably only 1 (Sargent) has seen their value appreciate subsequently and even he was a bit of a joke figure in his Premier League appearances.
(Could also put it this way. If you tell me we're spending £60m on fees this Summer, I'd reckon the fewer transfers that money is spread across, the better we'll do) [Post edited 7 May 14:53]
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| So… on 07:47 - May 8 with 326 views | chicoazul |
| So… on 11:23 - May 7 by itfcjoe |
It'll end up being 8-10 out and 8-10 when you look at our 25 man squad
From who is currently in our squad you'd imagine the following will go:
Aluko
Ball
Donacien
Harness
Jackson
Moore
Travis
Walton
Williams
We also have Ali Al-Hamadi, Cameron Humphreys and Cieran Slicker who have been in and around the first team squad who will need to be registered next season.
Then question marks re Hutchinson and Sarmiento and their returns...
Then likes of Ndaba, Baggott and El Mizouni who have had good loan spells.....
But I imagine there will be somewhere between 8-10 new players when we name our 25 man squad at the end of next season. |
Put like that it’s pretty clear it’s going to be another big rotation. I’m gonna be absolutely bereft when some of these fellas leave but I get it…! | |
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