| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77709 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| They have issued something new.... on 15:06 - Dec 2 with 2087 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| They have issued something new.... on 14:59 - Dec 2 by Bloots |
....they've said they respect his decision.
That in itself merits discussion. |
Same as last year then? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| They have issued something new.... on 15:12 - Dec 2 with 2034 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| They have issued something new.... on 15:00 - Dec 2 by Swailsey |
Yep. I’m really shocked at those who don’t see the issue here. |
Everyone sees the issue and everyone discussed it over 6 pages.
Morsy has decided to not take part due to his religion.
The club wants to be inclusive to everyone - and is doing lots of initiatives towards that.
However, they respect Morsy's decision due to his religious beliefs.
Many of us are disappointed but can understand the position of all parties even if we don't agree with them.
The same thing happened last year, and the year before that... and however far back it goes. And it'll come around again next year if Morsy's still here.
What have we missed? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| They have issued something new.... on 15:14 - Dec 2 with 2008 views | Swailsey |
| They have issued something new.... on 15:12 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Everyone sees the issue and everyone discussed it over 6 pages.
Morsy has decided to not take part due to his religion.
The club wants to be inclusive to everyone - and is doing lots of initiatives towards that.
However, they respect Morsy's decision due to his religious beliefs.
Many of us are disappointed but can understand the position of all parties even if we don't agree with them.
The same thing happened last year, and the year before that... and however far back it goes. And it'll come around again next year if Morsy's still here.
What have we missed? |
I’m surprised anyone is defending the club. I’m not engaging with you on this though any more as you really bug me. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:15 - Dec 2 with 1991 views | bsw72 |
Not a great look for Morsy but I'm wary of blaming the club as they have obviously let him choose whether or not he wore it rather than force a situation with him.
Either way football remains microcosm of the world and how different groups are treated / recognized etc across it.
Sadly homophobia, racism, sexism etc are still prevalent and will continue to remain so whether someone wears a rainbow armband, kick it out badge and such like - it's a social issue which is often inherited as part of parental influence or associated social / religious groups.
I speak from a position of male, white, heterosexual "privilege", so have never had to face the discrimination that others do. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:17 - Dec 2 with 1979 views | lowhouseblue |
i bet morsy would have no issue with saying that everyone, regardless of any characteristic, should be treated with respect and decency and shouldn't be subject to discrimination or bigotry in any form. i'm not sure why the club didn't just say that. it has a much clearer meaning than wearing special laces. equally, the premier league is increasingly unusual now in still working with stonewall. showing unquestioning support for stonewall in its current guise is not uncontroversial. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:18 - Dec 2 with 1958 views | homer_123 |
If you are going to post on the subject, at least get it right.
LGBTQIA+ |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:20 - Dec 2 with 1933 views | chicoazul |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:02 - Dec 2 by J2BLUE |
I'm not telling you anything. I'm asking why you are trolling and you can't answer.
You will make the same thread next year. Perhaps we should dig out the thread where you defend Christianity as our laws are based on it. |
I’m not trolling. Posting something J2 thinks is trolling doesn’t make it trolling. Clearly all the other people in this and the other thread think the conversation is worthy. Maybe you’re wrong? It’s just a thought. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:23 - Dec 2 with 1896 views | J2BLUE |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:20 - Dec 2 by chicoazul |
I’m not trolling. Posting something J2 thinks is trolling doesn’t make it trolling. Clearly all the other people in this and the other thread think the conversation is worthy. Maybe you’re wrong? It’s just a thought. |
Not going to keep going around in circles. You made this thread last year and got the same broad response as this year. Now on to your third thread, what response are you looking for? |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:24 - Dec 2 with 1882 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:20 - Dec 2 by chicoazul |
I’m not trolling. Posting something J2 thinks is trolling doesn’t make it trolling. Clearly all the other people in this and the other thread think the conversation is worthy. Maybe you’re wrong? It’s just a thought. |
If you just wanted a discussion, why did you only make 2 comments on the 6-page thread you started? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:26 - Dec 2 with 1854 views | gringoblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:17 - Dec 2 by lowhouseblue |
i bet morsy would have no issue with saying that everyone, regardless of any characteristic, should be treated with respect and decency and shouldn't be subject to discrimination or bigotry in any form. i'm not sure why the club didn't just say that. it has a much clearer meaning than wearing special laces. equally, the premier league is increasingly unusual now in still working with stonewall. showing unquestioning support for stonewall in its current guise is not uncontroversial. |
Why do you think Morsy would make such a statement when, in his role as club captain, he has refused to endorse a campaign for football to be safe and welcoming for everyone, for our club to be a safe place where everyone can be themselves? I'll tell you why he hasn't made such a statement - because it goes against his religious beliefs. He doesn't believe it. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:27 - Dec 2 with 1838 views | chicoazul |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:23 - Dec 2 by J2BLUE |
Not going to keep going around in circles. You made this thread last year and got the same broad response as this year. Now on to your third thread, what response are you looking for? |
The response I’m looking for is literally in the op. Are you really this dumb or is it pretend? Are you trolling about me trolling? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:29 - Dec 2 with 1811 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:27 - Dec 2 by chicoazul |
The response I’m looking for is literally in the op. Are you really this dumb or is it pretend? Are you trolling about me trolling? |
He’s right though.
You are stirring to make three separate threads on such a specific and niche subject. Especially with the other being locked as you literally say in your post here.
What’s the end game? Morsy loses the captaincy? TWTD shut down? The club disbanded? What more are you looking to achieve |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:30 - Dec 2 with 1796 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:27 - Dec 2 by chicoazul |
The response I’m looking for is literally in the op. Are you really this dumb or is it pretend? Are you trolling about me trolling? |
The fact it has spanned 9 pages means it’s a topic people care about, so I welcome the opportunity to do so. It’s clearly extremely emotive to many people. | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:33 - Dec 2 with 1769 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:26 - Dec 2 by gringoblue |
Why do you think Morsy would make such a statement when, in his role as club captain, he has refused to endorse a campaign for football to be safe and welcoming for everyone, for our club to be a safe place where everyone can be themselves? I'll tell you why he hasn't made such a statement - because it goes against his religious beliefs. He doesn't believe it. |
for one, it's a statement which is pretty much enshrined in national law and, regardless of religion, i can't see anything a decent person would possibly disagree with. in your mind laces have that specific meaning - but what they mean isn't necessarily clear or precise to everyone. someone might see it as a much broader and vaguer cultural statement. someone people might see it as support for stonewall and their full agenda. to be honest, i think people get to choose what statement they want to make and in what form. do you really think that morsy would have a problem saying that he opposes all discrimination and all people should be treated with respect? does any one need to say more? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:34 - Dec 2 with 1751 views | J2BLUE |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:29 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
He’s right though.
You are stirring to make three separate threads on such a specific and niche subject. Especially with the other being locked as you literally say in your post here.
What’s the end game? Morsy loses the captaincy? TWTD shut down? The club disbanded? What more are you looking to achieve |
This.
He's just stirring trying to bring back the 'banter era' he was so desperate to see continue. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:35 - Dec 2 with 1741 views | Vegtablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 14:19 - Dec 2 by GlasgowBlue |
"our captain Sam Morsy, who has chosen not to wear the rainbow captain’s armband, due to his religious beliefs".
Can we please stop validating discriminatory religious beliefs that belong in the dark ages.Not matter which religion it is. |
I think it catches people out because we largely want to be tolerant and respectful of all voices, especially of those we have relationships with, but I doubt we'd see the club 'respecting beliefs' if the subject was a different form of discrimination. One that jumps out instantly is the treatment of women in Afghanistan, in accordance with the Taliban's religious beliefs. Women treated as human chattel, denied opportunities to learn and to live; we mostly don't respect some of the beliefs enshrined in Islamic fundamentalism, in Christian fundamentalism, and yet there's uncertainty around homophobia because it has survived the mainstream 'rebrand' of a massive religion.
I understand the annoyance some feel that sport should solely be sport, remove the messages altogether, but Morsy doesn't have that problem; he's spoken publicly on Palestine, he brought the flag into the stadium, he wore our poppy shirt, he's supported Kick It Out. Ideally he would have represented the club above his own prejudices on Saturday, but if impossible I would have hoped the armband was removed from him for two games. O'Shea is a leader on the pitch. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:40 - Dec 2 with 1686 views | gringoblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:33 - Dec 2 by lowhouseblue |
for one, it's a statement which is pretty much enshrined in national law and, regardless of religion, i can't see anything a decent person would possibly disagree with. in your mind laces have that specific meaning - but what they mean isn't necessarily clear or precise to everyone. someone might see it as a much broader and vaguer cultural statement. someone people might see it as support for stonewall and their full agenda. to be honest, i think people get to choose what statement they want to make and in what form. do you really think that morsy would have a problem saying that he opposes all discrimination and all people should be treated with respect? does any one need to say more? |
Yes I do now think Morsy would have a problem with saying that. Morsy isn't refusing to endorse because of Stonewall's "full agenda" or the "broader and vaguer cultural statement" of rainbow laces. These are clearly your issues with it and you are welcome to them. Fortunately you are not club captain either. | | | |
| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:43 - Dec 2 with 1661 views | textbackup |
| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:05 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Not wearing an armband doesn't mean you'd treat a teammate disrespectfully.
The only facts we know is he's not prepared to take part in a gesture. It's literally not doing something. There is no suggestion that he'd go further and do (or say) something that is disrespectful to a gay player. |
but that’s just your opinion, someone might think the total opposite based on their opinion.
Wouldn’t make either of you correct, the only person that knows for sure is SM. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:47 - Dec 2 with 1627 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:40 - Dec 2 by gringoblue |
Yes I do now think Morsy would have a problem with saying that. Morsy isn't refusing to endorse because of Stonewall's "full agenda" or the "broader and vaguer cultural statement" of rainbow laces. These are clearly your issues with it and you are welcome to them. Fortunately you are not club captain either. |
if you really believe that then to be consistent you should want him out of the club. why would we want someone who doesn't oppose discrimination and doesn't want to treat others decently? that's not how i see him, but you seem to. my issue is with compelling people to make gestures or repeat words written by others when their precise meaning is open to debate. i don't think less of people who don't wear poppies, or assume that they are indifferent to those who made sacrifices in war, and i don't think less of people who don't swap their bootlaces when told to by others. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:48 - Dec 2 with 1610 views | J2BLUE |
| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:43 - Dec 2 by textbackup |
but that’s just your opinion, someone might think the total opposite based on their opinion.
Wouldn’t make either of you correct, the only person that knows for sure is SM. |
That is true but based on the amount of players who have praised Morsy as a captain and person it would appear unlikely that he would treat anyone like that.
I think there is a big difference between condemning it (hate) and not being seen to promote it (hands tied due to religion). | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:52 - Dec 2 with 1579 views | gringoblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:47 - Dec 2 by lowhouseblue |
if you really believe that then to be consistent you should want him out of the club. why would we want someone who doesn't oppose discrimination and doesn't want to treat others decently? that's not how i see him, but you seem to. my issue is with compelling people to make gestures or repeat words written by others when their precise meaning is open to debate. i don't think less of people who don't wear poppies, or assume that they are indifferent to those who made sacrifices in war, and i don't think less of people who don't swap their bootlaces when told to by others. |
To be clear, I don't think Morsy should be club captain. His religious beliefs are incompatible with the role. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:55 - Dec 2 with 1547 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:52 - Dec 2 by gringoblue |
To be clear, I don't think Morsy should be club captain. His religious beliefs are incompatible with the role. |
N/T [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 16:38]
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| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:55 - Dec 2 with 1548 views | textbackup |
| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:48 - Dec 2 by J2BLUE |
That is true but based on the amount of players who have praised Morsy as a captain and person it would appear unlikely that he would treat anyone like that.
I think there is a big difference between condemning it (hate) and not being seen to promote it (hands tied due to religion). |
FWIW (which is nothing really) I personally don’t think he’d do anything other than be the complete professional.
However, I do wonder if him not wearing it would stop a gay person wanting to work within the club, in a role that would see them interact with SM.
We could have players that battle with this in their own minds daily, ‘do I come out, will the club back me?! Will my team mates back me?! What about my captain’ And now feel there is no hope for them here…
Interesting discussions would be had internally I’m sure. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 16:03]
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| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:59 - Dec 2 with 1518 views | JakeITFC |
| I'd be "extremely disappointed".... on 15:48 - Dec 2 by J2BLUE |
That is true but based on the amount of players who have praised Morsy as a captain and person it would appear unlikely that he would treat anyone like that.
I think there is a big difference between condemning it (hate) and not being seen to promote it (hands tied due to religion). |
His hands are not tied, he has made an active choice. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 16:01 - Dec 2 with 1498 views | itfcjoe |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:29 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
He’s right though.
You are stirring to make three separate threads on such a specific and niche subject. Especially with the other being locked as you literally say in your post here.
What’s the end game? Morsy loses the captaincy? TWTD shut down? The club disbanded? What more are you looking to achieve |
I don't see why it is stirring, the 3 separate threads are made over a year. If the one hadn't been locked it would have been 2 threads a year apart - and a news story about it is worthy of starting a new thread for me |  |
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