| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77692 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:27 - Dec 2 with 1342 views | NewcyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:25 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Fantastic post and I admire your bravery. I was going to post, "Has anyone asked what our LGBTIQA+ supporters think, surely they should be the judge on this?" but you've saved me from asking that.
I just wanted to add, for my part I didn't want to shut down the conversation, I just felt that everything had been said over and over, and the OP is a well-known 'controversy' poster, so I would question his motives on any subject. I'd rather hear your views, and I'm glad we now have.
It's a shame Morsy's inaction makes you feel a lesser person, which you certainly aren't. I will bow to your view as it's only the view of yourself and others in the community that matters.
Thanks for holding your nerve and let's hope things continue to improve as they largely have done. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 18:27]
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“Morsy’s inaction”?
It’s not inaction. He has made a deliberate choice. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:28 - Dec 2 with 1338 views | Vegtablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:08 - Dec 2 by Ryorry |
Quite. The problem for me is that some people don't understand that some other people are (regrettably imho) brought up by parents/family/guardians/communities with an unshakeable belief that their religion has the only "right" set of comprehensive beliefs, which should form the basis of everyone's life; and pass that mindset on to their youngsters.
Some religions are all-encompassing & very dogmatic. About 15 years ago I asked my bestie, a practising Christian, why she couldn't accept gay marriages. All she could reply was "it's against my religion". We left it there, have never discussed it since (& she's remained my bestie). Whilst the church may have changed its stance, she hasn't, but then she's in her late 70s.
Obviously Sam's only 33, but nevertheless, I can understand how someone who's grown up since babyhood in effect being brainwashed, isn't going to remotely feel able to cast off any tenet of his belief system. I think with Muslims there's a lot of close community pressure as well-- can't think of any other religion which has daily communal prayers.
Seems to me Sam was placed in an impossible situation. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Don't think passing the armband to another would have helped, as it would then have been that situation being discussed. |
A captaincy change would have been discussed, at least locally (would it have gained national attention, I'm less sure because of our place in the food chain), but the club would have been supporting its values, communities etc., rather the unbending discriminatory beliefs of a player. That would have been much more preferable for me and we could have avoided today's disappointing club statement. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:28 - Dec 2 with 1336 views | PassionNotAnger |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:10 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
So really what your saying he should wear the rainbow armband just to keep everyone happy. I wonder how many captains said the same just because it's not worth the hassle. Does that send the correct message |
No, I am saying if he doesn’t feel able to wear it and support the message he shouldn’t be the captain. It’s not about “hassle” it’s promoting inclusivity.
It’s my view, I don’t expect/demand others change their views if they don’t agree. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:29 - Dec 2 with 1331 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:23 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
You could always support Celtic or Rangers if Ipswich upsets you |
The juxtaposition between pointofblue's excellent post and this 'contribution' is jarring. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:30 - Dec 2 with 1326 views | MK1 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 17:33 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I'm a member of the community who has only revealed that to be the case to one person - my best mate. I have told no one else. This is the first time I've said it on here. I don't know right now if I'll edit this or close before posting. If you're reading this it's because I have somehow held my nerve.
The reason why I am so loathed to reveal my true self is the way people treat the LGBTQIA+ community. There is still prevalent homophobic abuse, there is still a greater risk of attack for something which happened whilst growing in the womb. When speaking about the community within the family, the belief has been they'd prefer it to be kept quiet, not revealed, covered up. Heterosexual relationships? No issue at all. Promote them.
I am certain that Morsy wouldn't join in the attacks but his refusal to wear an armband feels like he believes those in the community have almost brought every piece of abuse, every violent attack, on ourselves as sinners. We are wrong, and we have done/are doing wrong. Although they may not say it, or post a reply, some will think the same on here.
This is a safer country than most for the community but there is still a lot of work to do. And valuing dogma which is thousands of years old, dictated by men within that period to suit their agenda, above those in community - especially when, as someone else indicated, most who follow a religion tend to pick and chose which criteria people should abide by, and which can be dismissed - does leave me uncomfortable and feeling like a lesser person. Something I have struggled to shift since realising who I am.
And to those trying to shut down the debate, and/or saying this thread is simply 'trolling' because it is repeated each year, come across, even though I'm sure for with most it is unitentional, as Morsy and Town's success with him in the team is far more important than equality, and those in the community should be happy being seen as lesser being simply for the sake of the club's fortunes. |
Fair play to you for posting that.
I have stated many times on here that equality should just be a way of life and everybody should be whoever they want to be. It works both ways though. Sam is entitled to be who he wants to be as everybody else is entitled to be whoever they want to be.
I would just like to reiterate your bravery (want of a better word) for your post. Be proud of who you are and sod those who are ignorant. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:34 - Dec 2 with 1272 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:15 - Dec 2 by chicoazul |
Thank you for posting friend. Yours is exactly the kind of point of view I hoped to hear. All the best for you and if you come out to your wider family and friends I hope and believe they will accept you for who you are before probably bombarding you with requests on soft furnishing choices as I did with my brother! |
Apologies Chickers. I had no idea your brother was from the community (maybe you should have said in one of your other many posts on the subject - but of course, that's your right, you have no need to).
Having seen your posting style over many years I assumed this was just another attempt to have a hot take on a controversial subject, but I now see that was wrong. Again, my apologies. Best wishes to you, your brother and your soft furnishing choices. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:35 - Dec 2 with 1263 views | CrockerITFC |
I don't understand why you're trolling our own fan base, no offence but you have a tendency to post some absolute drivel at times.
But you want my opinion, I'm a member of the LGBTQ+ community by the way and I find this post of yours utterly embarrassing. You're welcome to my opinion. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:35 - Dec 2 with 1258 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:27 - Dec 2 by NewcyBlue |
“Morsy’s inaction”?
It’s not inaction. He has made a deliberate choice. |
Yeah, he's decided to not do a thing. That's inaction. Inaction in terms of support for the community. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:35 - Dec 2 with 1258 views | PassionNotAnger |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:30 - Dec 2 by MK1 |
Fair play to you for posting that.
I have stated many times on here that equality should just be a way of life and everybody should be whoever they want to be. It works both ways though. Sam is entitled to be who he wants to be as everybody else is entitled to be whoever they want to be.
I would just like to reiterate your bravery (want of a better word) for your post. Be proud of who you are and sod those who are ignorant. |
Small point of order, respectfully if I may
Sam Morsy is, of course, entitled to be who he wants to be.
The captain of any organization, let alone a Premier League football club who thousands of local eyes on them and potentially millions globally need to be someone that promotes inclusion, equality and compassion for EVERYONE, if he can’t do that he shouldn’t have the armband (in my opinion) | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:37 - Dec 2 with 1237 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 17:25 - Dec 2 by Whos_blue |
I don't suppose for a moment this was your intention, but it could be interpreted that your comnents also include those who chose to discriminate on the basis if race, sex, sexual orientation being able to live and let live too.
We should always call out discrimination when we see it.
That's not to say I consider Morsy's position as specifically discriminatory and I can't say I recall him saying anything to support that either. However, am I disappointed he has chosen to not wear the armband. He's an awesome skipper and seems a generally decent fella as far as I've seen, but this isn't a great look and brings unwanted attention to the club. |
No I greatly respect my gay friends I just feel we should also respect Sam's views he hasn't come out as homophonic he preferred not to wear an armband. He could have worn as it's not worth the hassle. I respect his right to make up his own mind |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:37 - Dec 2 with 1237 views | NewcyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:35 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah, he's decided to not do a thing. That's inaction. Inaction in terms of support for the community. |
No, he has taken action. He has said he is unable to do so due to his religious beliefs.
That’s not inaction. That is an action to the contrary. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:37 - Dec 2 with 1232 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:28 - Dec 2 by Vegtablue |
A captaincy change would have been discussed, at least locally (would it have gained national attention, I'm less sure because of our place in the food chain), but the club would have been supporting its values, communities etc., rather the unbending discriminatory beliefs of a player. That would have been much more preferable for me and we could have avoided today's disappointing club statement. |
Though this would be happening now due to increased external pressure because of the club's standing. From memory, Morsy has previously refused to wear the rainbow armband without losing the captaincy. Taking it from him now would simply be playing lip service to wider awareness rather than because of, for want of better word, 'conscience'. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:40 - Dec 2 with 1216 views | Jrm_72 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:23 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
You could always support Celtic or Rangers if Ipswich upsets you |
Yeah... I mean I've no idea what 'edgy' point you are trying to make here, but then judging from this and your other contributions, I'm not sure you do either...
Why Celtic/Rangers? Is it a 'you want people that support gay rights to move to a different country so you dont have to see them' thing? Is it a half-baked sectarian comment, that I somehow must be a Christian as I oppose Sam's view on gay people? For the record I think all religions are equally silly. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:42 - Dec 2 with 1192 views | chicoazul |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:25 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Fantastic post and I admire your bravery. I was going to post, "Has anyone asked what our LGBTIQA+ supporters think, surely they should be the judge on this?" but you've saved me from asking that.
I just wanted to add, for my part I didn't want to shut down the conversation, I just felt that everything had been said over and over, and the OP is a well-known 'controversy' poster, so I would question his motives on any subject. I'd rather hear your views, and I'm glad we now have.
It's a shame Morsy's inaction makes you feel a lesser person, which you certainly aren't. I will bow to your view as it's only the view of yourself and others in the community that matters.
Thanks for holding your nerve and let's hope things continue to improve as they largely have done. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 18:27]
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Of course Jerseys had you read my post rather than seeing red as it was me making it you would find I was asking exactly that. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:43 - Dec 2 with 1183 views | MK1 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:35 - Dec 2 by PassionNotAnger |
Small point of order, respectfully if I may
Sam Morsy is, of course, entitled to be who he wants to be.
The captain of any organization, let alone a Premier League football club who thousands of local eyes on them and potentially millions globally need to be someone that promotes inclusion, equality and compassion for EVERYONE, if he can’t do that he shouldn’t have the armband (in my opinion) |
That is a fair point. I don't have an answer for that. I guess that is for others to question. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:43 - Dec 2 with 1176 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:28 - Dec 2 by Vegtablue |
A captaincy change would have been discussed, at least locally (would it have gained national attention, I'm less sure because of our place in the food chain), but the club would have been supporting its values, communities etc., rather the unbending discriminatory beliefs of a player. That would have been much more preferable for me and we could have avoided today's disappointing club statement. |
Yes, can see that now, good point 👍 |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:44 - Dec 2 with 1177 views | blueboyd |
LGBTQ fans will not declare their opinions in droves because of the absolute vitriol being posted online about how wonderful Morsy is for NOT being part of the norm in making a statement by wearing the armband that football is for everyone.
Doesn't take much looking on social media and messageboards to see that backing our captain because he is our captain is more important than calling him out to say that his choice was wrong and maybe the club should have given the armband to someone else for that game. The ONLY captain who did not wear it. - Embarrassing for the club.
I am not sure how long Sam has been a Muslim; his life choices dictate that he wasn't as strict a follower as he is now, maybe.
Great footballer, one of the best captains we have ever had but on this occasion playing the religious belief card when it hasn't been played about other things is just daft. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:46 - Dec 2 with 1145 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:26 - Dec 2 by NewcyBlue |
Intolerance is unacceptable.
It really is that simple. What is that you find difficult to understand? |
I understand quite well just pointing there are far worse clubs than town he could support | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:48 - Dec 2 with 1139 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:37 - Dec 2 by NewcyBlue |
No, he has taken action. He has said he is unable to do so due to his religious beliefs.
That’s not inaction. That is an action to the contrary. |
I think you're rather splitting hairs, we shall have to agree to disagree on this. He's not actively doing a thing (i.e. preaching hate speech). He's decided to not take part in a gesture. That's not doing a thing. If I don't wear a poppy that's not me taking action. I'm just not doing anything. Inaction. And Morsy has decided to not do a thing that others are taking part in. I think it's wrong, but there we are. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:48 - Dec 2 with 1127 views | NewcyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:46 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
I understand quite well just pointing there are far worse clubs than town he could support |
Ah there are worse clubs, so that doesn’t mean we cannot expect better? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:50 - Dec 2 with 1108 views | NewcyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:48 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think you're rather splitting hairs, we shall have to agree to disagree on this. He's not actively doing a thing (i.e. preaching hate speech). He's decided to not take part in a gesture. That's not doing a thing. If I don't wear a poppy that's not me taking action. I'm just not doing anything. Inaction. And Morsy has decided to not do a thing that others are taking part in. I think it's wrong, but there we are. |
“Morsy has decided to not do a thing”
So, he’s taken action to not take action…. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:53 - Dec 2 with 1070 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:28 - Dec 2 by PassionNotAnger |
No, I am saying if he doesn’t feel able to wear it and support the message he shouldn’t be the captain. It’s not about “hassle” it’s promoting inclusivity.
It’s my view, I don’t expect/demand others change their views if they don’t agree. |
So what your saying if he wears the armband whether he believes in it or not he's a good captain if decides not to wear he's a bad captain . So you would prefer a hypocrit as a captain rather than someone whose honest about his beliefs | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:54 - Dec 2 with 1060 views | chicoazul |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:48 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think you're rather splitting hairs, we shall have to agree to disagree on this. He's not actively doing a thing (i.e. preaching hate speech). He's decided to not take part in a gesture. That's not doing a thing. If I don't wear a poppy that's not me taking action. I'm just not doing anything. Inaction. And Morsy has decided to not do a thing that others are taking part in. I think it's wrong, but there we are. |
Are you truly this stupid | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:54 - Dec 2 with 1055 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:52 - Dec 2 by gringoblue |
To be clear, I don't think Morsy should be club captain. His religious beliefs are incompatible with the role. |
To be clear - I think you are talking bo1locks.
The "role" doesn't include doing what you're told to do. That role probably exists in the army, in places like North Korea.
We are ALL free to choose what we support or what we believe in, so regardless what we individually think, Morsy is allowed to do what he believes is right. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:57 - Dec 2 with 1025 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 18:53 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
So what your saying if he wears the armband whether he believes in it or not he's a good captain if decides not to wear he's a bad captain . So you would prefer a hypocrit as a captain rather than someone whose honest about his beliefs |
..... that gay rights are wrong. How do you find this acceptable - especially when he represents ITFC and us, the fans? |  | | |
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