| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77719 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:16 - Dec 2 with 1962 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:54 - Dec 2 by Jrm_72 |
Honestly one more person saying 'its football not politics' today seriously...
Human decency is not politics, its the bare minimum
The level of ignorance and bigotry this topic has unearthed is frightening |
I haven't seen any evidence of bigotry some of us just defending Sam's right to wear or not wear a rainbow armband. 9my point is that if he wears one just to keep people happy he's a hypocrit |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:17 - Dec 2 with 1962 views | Kievthegreat |
Sam Morsy was given the choice of wear the armband, that was intended to represent that LGBTQ+ people are welcome in football and wider society.
He did not abstain, he chose not to wear it. There is no distinguishable way to abstain. Constantly throwing that word around is trying to play games.
Does that mean he doesn't think LGBTQ+ people should be welcome in football or society? While you cannot give any definite answer as he's not been unequivocal in saying so, it's not wrong to question whether that is the case. He has said for religious reasons he cannot wear the armband. He could have personally, or through the club, made a bigger statement to say he still respects people to not be discriminated against. He didn't. People will draw their conclusions from that. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:17 - Dec 2 with 1957 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:16 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
I haven't seen any evidence of bigotry some of us just defending Sam's right to wear or not wear a rainbow armband. 9my point is that if he wears one just to keep people happy he's a hypocrit |
How do you feel about him wearing sports kits with betting logos on them. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:24 - Dec 2 with 1899 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:17 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
How do you feel about him wearing sports kits with betting logos on them. |
Just throwing this out here and I might well be wrong.
Im guessing that you are probably contractually obliged to wear the team kit, where as you are not contractually obliged to wear the rainbow armband. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:28 - Dec 2 with 1851 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:24 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Just throwing this out here and I might well be wrong.
Im guessing that you are probably contractually obliged to wear the team kit, where as you are not contractually obliged to wear the rainbow armband. |
Of course.
But if he has such strong religious beliefs then he could have joined non league football instead or retired rather than playing week in week out with a betting logo on his shirt.
The fact is. He could do that each week. But couldn't for 90 minutes wear an armband. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:30]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:29 - Dec 2 with 1840 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:17 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
How do you feel about him wearing sports kits with betting logos on them. |
Like I said it's his choice. If it's on a sponsored football shirt it .maybe a contractual problem
After all it's a team game you can hardly play in a different shirt to the rest of the team. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:32 - Dec 2 with 1825 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:28 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
Of course.
But if he has such strong religious beliefs then he could have joined non league football instead or retired rather than playing week in week out with a betting logo on his shirt.
The fact is. He could do that each week. But couldn't for 90 minutes wear an armband. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:30]
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But that's not very inclusive is it....
The reality is, there's no easy solution that works for everyone and there never will be. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:34 - Dec 2 with 1802 views | J2BLUE |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:28 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
Of course.
But if he has such strong religious beliefs then he could have joined non league football instead or retired rather than playing week in week out with a betting logo on his shirt.
The fact is. He could do that each week. But couldn't for 90 minutes wear an armband. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:30]
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Yea it's a fair point to be honest |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:35 - Dec 2 with 1802 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:32 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
But that's not very inclusive is it....
The reality is, there's no easy solution that works for everyone and there never will be. |
The reality is he simply could have worn an armband for 90 minutes just like he was able to wear a betting logo on his shirt for seasons.. that is an easy solution. The fact he chose which of the two to do says more about him as an individual unfortunately which Is a shame.
I'm more disappointed in town tbh. They speak of community alot, yet they don't 'get' the importance of this subject. Its alright giving a few paragraphs after the event but the facts are they, KM, Morsy,Ashton none of them cared enough and that in my opinion is incredible disappointing. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:39]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:40 - Dec 2 with 1765 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 17:33 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I'm a member of the community who has only revealed that to be the case to one person - my best mate. I have told no one else. This is the first time I've said it on here. I don't know right now if I'll edit this or close before posting. If you're reading this it's because I have somehow held my nerve.
The reason why I am so loathed to reveal my true self is the way people treat the LGBTQIA+ community. There is still prevalent homophobic abuse, there is still a greater risk of attack for something which happened whilst growing in the womb. When speaking about the community within the family, the belief has been they'd prefer it to be kept quiet, not revealed, covered up. Heterosexual relationships? No issue at all. Promote them.
I am certain that Morsy wouldn't join in the attacks but his refusal to wear an armband feels like he believes those in the community have almost brought every piece of abuse, every violent attack, on ourselves as sinners. We are wrong, and we have done/are doing wrong. Although they may not say it, or post a reply, some will think the same on here.
This is a safer country than most for the community but there is still a lot of work to do. And valuing dogma which is thousands of years old, dictated by men within that period to suit their agenda, above those in community - especially when, as someone else indicated, most who follow a religion tend to pick and chose which criteria people should abide by, and which can be dismissed - does leave me uncomfortable and feeling like a lesser person. Something I have struggled to shift since realising who I am.
And to those trying to shut down the debate, and/or saying this thread is simply 'trolling' because it is repeated each year, come across, even though I'm sure for with most it is unitentional, as Morsy and Town's success with him in the team is far more important than equality, and those in the community should be happy being seen as lesser being simply for the sake of the club's fortunes. |
Great post. Really great post.
I was one who was trying to shut down the conversation and thought Chico was trolling. As it happens, I was wrong to suggest the thread shouldn’t have been made. Your post alone is clear as to why in fact the thread should have been made and the situation spoke about.
I can only apologise and say how I admire such bravery. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:42]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:49 - Dec 2 with 1699 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:40 - Dec 2 by The_Romford_Blue |
Great post. Really great post.
I was one who was trying to shut down the conversation and thought Chico was trolling. As it happens, I was wrong to suggest the thread shouldn’t have been made. Your post alone is clear as to why in fact the thread should have been made and the situation spoke about.
I can only apologise and say how I admire such bravery. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:42]
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I apologise because I was a bit blunt with the final paragraph without understanding the history. It came across as casting asperions on people which I didn't intend to do, so I am sorry about that. And thank you for your post.
I'm not sure if ironic is the right word but we have a nine page thread disussing this (on top of the one closed). However, if Morsy had worn the armband, there would probably be no debate and no acknowledgement. It would be one of the those things 'seen' but not talked about, yet the whole point of the armband is to increase visibility and discussion. So there may be a viable point about whether it's doing it's job, as the reason this is taking place is because Morsy decided not to wear it. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:52 - Dec 2 with 1678 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:35 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
The reality is he simply could have worn an armband for 90 minutes just like he was able to wear a betting logo on his shirt for seasons.. that is an easy solution. The fact he chose which of the two to do says more about him as an individual unfortunately which Is a shame.
I'm more disappointed in town tbh. They speak of community alot, yet they don't 'get' the importance of this subject. Its alright giving a few paragraphs after the event but the facts are they, KM, Morsy,Ashton none of them cared enough and that in my opinion is incredible disappointing. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:39]
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How do you know that they don't care enough.
Stop making stupid statements based on nothing but your opinion.
I personally think they are wise to stay the fook out of it, to prevent people like you from piling on | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:52 - Dec 2 with 1678 views | rkc123 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:35 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
The reality is he simply could have worn an armband for 90 minutes just like he was able to wear a betting logo on his shirt for seasons.. that is an easy solution. The fact he chose which of the two to do says more about him as an individual unfortunately which Is a shame.
I'm more disappointed in town tbh. They speak of community alot, yet they don't 'get' the importance of this subject. Its alright giving a few paragraphs after the event but the facts are they, KM, Morsy,Ashton none of them cared enough and that in my opinion is incredible disappointing. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:39]
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I completely agree, the club should have made it clear they disagree with Morsy's decision, his motivations for his choice are what they are, but ultimately they are out of line with the views of the club on this issue (at least I hope they are), and they should have made that clear. It feels they've prioritised maintaining squad harmony and keeping Morsy happy over making a strong show of support to our lgbtqia+ fans who may (and as this thread shows, have) been disappointed by Sam's decision. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:00 - Dec 2 with 1624 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:52 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
How do you know that they don't care enough.
Stop making stupid statements based on nothing but your opinion.
I personally think they are wise to stay the fook out of it, to prevent people like you from piling on |
I know because they allowed the club captain to go out and be the only captain not to wear the armband. It was very very easy for them to choose someone else. That's not opinion it's fact.
I'm sorry you don't like town being negatively spoken about so maybe stick this one out. But there's an individual being discussed whilst there's a host of club representatives who could and should have done better. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 21:03]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:07 - Dec 2 with 1550 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:00 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
I know because they allowed the club captain to go out and be the only captain not to wear the armband. It was very very easy for them to choose someone else. That's not opinion it's fact.
I'm sorry you don't like town being negatively spoken about so maybe stick this one out. But there's an individual being discussed whilst there's a host of club representatives who could and should have done better. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 21:03]
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Again, I am prepared to be told I'm wrong here.
Was Morsy the only practicing Muslim to captain a team this weekend.
If he was (and I'm guessing he was, as no doubt somebody would have brought it up as a stick to beat him or the club with) - your opening paragraph is pointless.
and I can assure you, the fall out from them choosing a non Muslim captain for one match would have been much greater for the club.
They can't win - they really cant, so climb down off your high horse and look at the bigger picture.
and I don't need to be told to stick something out by you, thanks all the same. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:07 - Dec 2 with 1546 views | textbackup |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:29 - Dec 2 by Leaky |
Like I said it's his choice. If it's on a sponsored football shirt it .maybe a contractual problem
After all it's a team game you can hardly play in a different shirt to the rest of the team. |
He’s made a choice in both situations.
There’s no hiding from that |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:10 - Dec 2 with 1533 views | blueboyd |
It is difficult to say much without being offensive to our captain, but he has chosen to not wear the armband because of "religious" reasons whilst he has done other things that are directly against these same "religious" beliefs.
like it or not he has tarnished the name of the club on the LGBTQ issue. it is all over the press | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:14 - Dec 2 with 1477 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:07 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Again, I am prepared to be told I'm wrong here.
Was Morsy the only practicing Muslim to captain a team this weekend.
If he was (and I'm guessing he was, as no doubt somebody would have brought it up as a stick to beat him or the club with) - your opening paragraph is pointless.
and I can assure you, the fall out from them choosing a non Muslim captain for one match would have been much greater for the club.
They can't win - they really cant, so climb down off your high horse and look at the bigger picture.
and I don't need to be told to stick something out by you, thanks all the same. |
It was posted earlier that Xhaka and Sakho wore the armband whilst captaining Arsenal and Palace respectively? I may be wrong, but isn't Salah Liverpool's captain? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:16 - Dec 2 with 1462 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:07 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Again, I am prepared to be told I'm wrong here.
Was Morsy the only practicing Muslim to captain a team this weekend.
If he was (and I'm guessing he was, as no doubt somebody would have brought it up as a stick to beat him or the club with) - your opening paragraph is pointless.
and I can assure you, the fall out from them choosing a non Muslim captain for one match would have been much greater for the club.
They can't win - they really cant, so climb down off your high horse and look at the bigger picture.
and I don't need to be told to stick something out by you, thanks all the same. |
It's not pointless.
There's a difference between walking out as a player to walking out as a captain. It has a different meaning. It's about leading the team, leading by example. All other club captains wore it. Ours should have too. If that wasn't going to be Morsy then you select someone who would wear it proudly.
The fallout you mention. Sorry but the club showing its actual support for the cause was the only right option and morsy could have been the one to put a statement out about how he supports the clubs position. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:18 - Dec 2 with 1437 views | Pinewoodblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:14 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
It was posted earlier that Xhaka and Sakho wore the armband whilst captaining Arsenal and Palace respectively? I may be wrong, but isn't Salah Liverpool's captain? |
Van Dijk |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:23 - Dec 2 with 1394 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:18 - Dec 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Van Dijk |
Ah, of course - thanks. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:29 - Dec 2 with 1360 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:16 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
It's not pointless.
There's a difference between walking out as a player to walking out as a captain. It has a different meaning. It's about leading the team, leading by example. All other club captains wore it. Ours should have too. If that wasn't going to be Morsy then you select someone who would wear it proudly.
The fallout you mention. Sorry but the club showing its actual support for the cause was the only right option and morsy could have been the one to put a statement out about how he supports the clubs position. |
So you think, there would be less fallout if the club had stripped Morsy of the captaincy for one game because of his religious beliefs.
Wow..... where have you been hiding.
Imagine the conversation, Morsy old chap, sorry but because you won't wear a rainbow armband you're not the captain today. We are going to pick somebody who isn't Muslim. You can have it back next weekend.
If that had entered the media, rightly or wrongly the fallout/hysteria would've been huge.
Unlike the vast majority, I am not taking sides - there's no definitive right or wrong, because like it or not there's two very distinctive sides to this.
The club are in a no win situation. Nobody wins.
I really cannot understand why people seem oblivious to this. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:32 - Dec 2 with 1340 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 17:33 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I'm a member of the community who has only revealed that to be the case to one person - my best mate. I have told no one else. This is the first time I've said it on here. I don't know right now if I'll edit this or close before posting. If you're reading this it's because I have somehow held my nerve.
The reason why I am so loathed to reveal my true self is the way people treat the LGBTQIA+ community. There is still prevalent homophobic abuse, there is still a greater risk of attack for something which happened whilst growing in the womb. When speaking about the community within the family, the belief has been they'd prefer it to be kept quiet, not revealed, covered up. Heterosexual relationships? No issue at all. Promote them.
I am certain that Morsy wouldn't join in the attacks but his refusal to wear an armband feels like he believes those in the community have almost brought every piece of abuse, every violent attack, on ourselves as sinners. We are wrong, and we have done/are doing wrong. Although they may not say it, or post a reply, some will think the same on here.
This is a safer country than most for the community but there is still a lot of work to do. And valuing dogma which is thousands of years old, dictated by men within that period to suit their agenda, above those in community - especially when, as someone else indicated, most who follow a religion tend to pick and chose which criteria people should abide by, and which can be dismissed - does leave me uncomfortable and feeling like a lesser person. Something I have struggled to shift since realising who I am.
And to those trying to shut down the debate, and/or saying this thread is simply 'trolling' because it is repeated each year, come across, even though I'm sure for with most it is unitentional, as Morsy and Town's success with him in the team is far more important than equality, and those in the community should be happy being seen as lesser being simply for the sake of the club's fortunes. |
Overriding previous reservations to be openly proud about your true self? That’s one of the most powerful posts this year - massive respect from me. I hope the reaction has convinced you that you were right to post.
I’m not sure if I’m imagining it, but the pushback on here against Morsy’s stance seems stronger than it was last year. Maybe we are making progress after all. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:33 - Dec 2 with 1341 views | orfordbuoy |
One of the news posters brought home the huge damage the club has made. The poster says Morsy's stance, regarding rejecting inclusion, has received in Egypt, praise. If this is travelling around the world this is a massive own goal for ITFC (and human rights) |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:33 - Dec 2 with 1332 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:29 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
So you think, there would be less fallout if the club had stripped Morsy of the captaincy for one game because of his religious beliefs.
Wow..... where have you been hiding.
Imagine the conversation, Morsy old chap, sorry but because you won't wear a rainbow armband you're not the captain today. We are going to pick somebody who isn't Muslim. You can have it back next weekend.
If that had entered the media, rightly or wrongly the fallout/hysteria would've been huge.
Unlike the vast majority, I am not taking sides - there's no definitive right or wrong, because like it or not there's two very distinctive sides to this.
The club are in a no win situation. Nobody wins.
I really cannot understand why people seem oblivious to this. |
Morsy old chap, unless you feel you can support this initiative which is meant to be inclusive of all, we feel we need to give the captaincy to someone else, such is the importance of said initiative to us as a club.
Sounds fairly reasonable? | | | |
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