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Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this? Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Well, for those remaining on here that support Morsy's decision to not support inclusion and human rights, please read the testimonies on this thread of those that were more directly affected by this discriminatory act.
Alternatively, you could join the news fraternity. I think you'll find your views better accepted there.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:47 - Dec 3 with 1641 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:40 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy
Well, for those remaining on here that support Morsy's decision to not support inclusion and human rights, please read the testimonies on this thread of those that were more directly affected by this discriminatory act.
Alternatively, you could join the news fraternity. I think you'll find your views better accepted there.
Well that's a bit uneccssary.
I tried to discuss with you amicably as did Ryorry but won't bother now as only like to deal with civil people.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:47 - Dec 3 by N2_Blue
Well that's a bit uneccssary.
I tried to discuss with you amicably as did Ryorry but won't bother now as only like to deal with civil people.
Indeed. Perhaps a reminder of my post earlier about the dictionary definition of the word tolerant would be useful to Orfordbuoy:
"Showing willingness to allow the existence of opinions or behaviour that one does not necessarily agree with."
Reasoned debate and conversation is fine, but if it makes you really angry, perhaps it is better just to take a breath and walk away. For your own well-being. It's really not worth it, for an online forum.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:52]
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 01:11 - Dec 3 with 1584 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:31 - Dec 3 by N2_Blue
well if members of the gay community feel hurt that is a shame, and i accept that, but it is unfortunate.
I'm sure that is not Sam's intention.
I can't speak for those individuals who are hurt, and i have seen the emotive messages on this thread from some of our own supporters, but all i say to them is i know its sad and confusing not to have the leader of your football team not openly support your cause, but please don't make assumptions without actually knowing.
Perhaps if you feel that strongly and hurt write a personal letter direct to Sam and see if it perhaps you get a repsonse in private that sheds more light on his stance.
[Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:37]
"not openly support your cause"
Being gay isn't my "cause", it is my humanity and existence. It is my self.
He is not "not supporting" it, he is refusing to accept a simple statement of equality and human rights.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 01:21 - Dec 3 with 1569 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:34 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy
where's the nuance in supporting inclusion human rights, or not?
You did make spurious suppositions to defend his decision to boycott inclusion.
It is possible to both fully support inclusivity, gay rights, human rights (which I do) *and* to try & understand where Sam Morsy is coming from (as I am).
The two are not mutually exclusive. And yes, I have read, been moved by, and fully support those who've written testimonials on this thread, including yourself. I'm just trying to understand things all-round.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 01:25 - Dec 3 by N2_Blue
yes as i wrote that i knew 'cause' was clumsy but couldn't think of the right way to express that, apologies for any offence.
Does he need to publically support it? What about if he is supporting it privately and the club and playing squad are aware of that.
Not ideal i understand and leads you to ask lots of questions, but we don't know that that is not the case.
Think your middle para is important. It also occurred to me (yes, more speculation I know, sorry Orford) that he may have to take a particular stance in public because his family could be affected.
Thank you very much to our lgbtq brother and sister TWTDers for sharing their experiences and reactions to Morsy’s stance To the people wittering on about causes and I only care what he does on the pitch and Why don’t you go support another team; I hope that reading ITT what your fellow humans go through on a daily basis and how disappointed some of them are makes you reflect on whether you are on the right side of this argument.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 06:16 - Dec 3 by chicoazul
Thank you very much to our lgbtq brother and sister TWTDers for sharing their experiences and reactions to Morsy’s stance To the people wittering on about causes and I only care what he does on the pitch and Why don’t you go support another team; I hope that reading ITT what your fellow humans go through on a daily basis and how disappointed some of them are makes you reflect on whether you are on the right side of this argument.
It’s been thought provoking. Have to admit as middle aged white heterosexual who considers himself pretty inclusive my initial reaction was that too much of a big deal was being made of it but this thread has challenged that.
I’m also struck by what a challenge inclusivity is. Inclusivity of religious beliefs is contradictory to inclusivity of sexual preference and gender equality. It just is sometimes.
Many bigots don’t care about contradiction a classic from Twitter was the very unpleasant Sandyofsuffolk voicing her support for Sam despite vile criticism of the club a bit back for putting on training sessions for refugees or Dinghy boys as she referred to them.
Seems truly exclusivity is almost as hard as inclusivity in a world where society sometimes dictates you take one side over another.
I think it’s highly likely for Sam the rainbow armband gesture would have weighed heavier than non religious or Christian captains. Him wearing it may have caused problems for him in his religious community that perhaps as non Muslims we don’t fully understand (forgive me if there has been a Muslim perspective given on this thread - I haven’t seen it).
If Sam had worn the armband I very much doubt it would have attracted anywhere near the positive attention it probably warrants as I suspect for the other 19 captains there was no negative implication in doing so but for Sam it was different. Nobody would have come rallying to his cause if his community rejected him for doing so I suspect.
I guess the conclusion of my ramble is that it’s nuanced and highly doubt Sam will speak out to clear it up and genuinely only he can explain.
Come back to this though inclusivity of everything is an impossible aspiration. Beliefs oppose one another. Expecting Sam Morsy to solve that paradox or be villified is a bit much.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 07:25 - Dec 3 with 1339 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 01:25 - Dec 3 by N2_Blue
yes as i wrote that i knew 'cause' was clumsy but couldn't think of the right way to express that, apologies for any offence.
Does he need to publically support it? What about if he is supporting it privately and the club and playing squad are aware of that.
Not ideal i understand and leads you to ask lots of questions, but we don't know that that is not the case.
By not publicly supporting it, he is publicly rejecting it - there’s no middle ground on this one.
There’s been a lot of word salads on this thread by people trying to talk around why the non-acceptance of a basic small gesture of inclusion isn’t a big deal. It’s being spelled out why it is, and why also this viewpoint from fans is hurtful
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:13 - Dec 3 by Ryorry
As far as I'm aware, Morsy has been brought up since birth immersed in the Muslim faith. You can't expect people to just ditch the *theory* of one of their faith's tenets for a symbolic public act. I'm sure that *in practice*, Morsy is/would be just as welcoming to any gay players he encounters at the club as anyone else, otherwise the club wouldn't have allowed him to remain captain.
Re the gambling logos v. any other faith-related no-no, I'm no expert on religion, but as a couple of people pointed out earlier in the thread, there are different forms of the Muslim faith & the importance attached to the various tenets of it may vary.
Different forms ie pick up £7-10k a week wearing a top
It’s hypocritical of him. I can’t believe anyone is even remotely trying to defend that.
I had him down as a bloke as honest as the day is long. But clearly not.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:40 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy
Well, for those remaining on here that support Morsy's decision to not support inclusion and human rights, please read the testimonies on this thread of those that were more directly affected by this discriminatory act.
Alternatively, you could join the news fraternity. I think you'll find your views better accepted there.
I think you need to appreciate the difference between support and understand.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
If we really want gay supporters and players to feel welcome at PR, maybe all fans should be challenged to wear a clearly visible rainbow symbol to a game. Now that would send a message of inclusion.
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