| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77807 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:37 - Dec 3 with 1563 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:33 - Dec 3 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm entirely sure others will have joined the dots as I have and drawn a similar view on your motives but I didn't "allege" anything - I was very specific and careful with my words .
I am aware of the differences but thank you for your explanation. It doesn't change anything.
What "agenda" do you think I have?
I think Morsy was wrong to refuse to wear the armband
I accept it's his right to believe what he wants
I don't think he should be a club captain if he won't wear the armband
That's not an agenda - it's called having morals. |
Why don't you just spell out what you are consistently hinting at.
And then we can go from there.
Of you go, the floors yours...... |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:38 - Dec 3 with 1558 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:27 - Dec 3 by waveneyblue |
So you were able to make a personal choice reflecting on your feelings and beliefs.
Bang.....
I think you might have just shot yourself in the foot |
I also haven't suggested he should wear something he doesn't believe in, I've suggested that someone else from the club should wear it |  | | |
| PR disaster on 09:38 - Dec 3 with 1547 views | N2_Blue |
| PR disaster on 08:58 - Dec 3 by chazza |
Sam Morsy's ill-judged rainbow armband statement was bad enough. The club supporting his position is nothing short of a PR disaster. It's been reported all over the world! Quite apart from damaging the club's reputation - the issue itself needs to be looked at. If a player isn't comfortable saying that "Ipswich Town welcomes players, fans and visitors of any and all sexual orientation" then that player has no business wearing the shirt. Let alone being the "captain". Just think of the impact of Morsy's bigoted views on young emerging players who happen to be gay or whatever 'non-traditional' sexual orientation they feel comfortable with. Welcome?? I don't think so. You can't do tolerance 'a la carte' - Morsy is wrong and should keep his unpleasant prejudices to himself. Or not be captain. Or not even show up. Love him as a footballer. But very very disappointed in him as a leader. |
Considering the choice of captain is Mckenna's responsibsility there must be people questioning Kieran's decision-making? But I haven't seen any.
I just still think there must be more to it behind closed doors that's sits comfortably with the club, playing staff and of course our manager. They're the ones that know Sam.
Whilst i agree from the outside it's not a good look and its disappointing Sam feels he can't wear the armband I still respect he has the right not to do so and won't pass judgement without having actual evidence behind such decisions.
Maybe I'm being too naive but statements such as "By not publicly supporting it, he is publicly rejecting it - there’s no middle ground on this one." sit uncomfortably with me. Lowhouse makes a good point of campaigns such as this being set up on the basis of opt-out rather than opt-in undermines free choice.
However, it probably would need a personal statement from Sam to explain his reasoning without trotting out the 'due to religious beliefs' cliche.
I think a few posters have been critical of what i've said, and that's fair enoguh. I'm not defending Sam, but i don't think it's fair to suggest he is a homophobe because he doesn't suppot the campaign publically. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 10:34]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:38 - Dec 3 with 1546 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:22 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe |
Ok, here goes - of course Ipswich fans were endorsing Magical Vegas.
They were making decisions on a sliding scale where at one end of the spectrum was I love Ipswich and will wear anything with their badge on it to I hate gambling and wouldn't wear anything with Gambling references on it. Everywhere will pick a different point on that spectrum, use their own mental gymnastics, to justify that and for some it will result in them being happy to wear the shirt and for others it will mean they aren't.
My view was I hated Magical Vegas as a sponsor, but wanted the shirt but knew I was endorsing them and giving them they exposure they wanted, and was comfortable enough doing this because I loved Ipswich more than I hated a gambling sponsor.
Re the offensive line, you've now seen posters saying how reading some of the comments on this thread and in the news comments has upset them, made them feel less welcome at PR etc - again join the dots on this one rather than digging a hole |
Thank you for finally answering. I can understand your viewpoint re the shirt sponsor now you've worded it like that. I appreciate what advertising is, obviously. But I've never thought I was personally endorsing any sponsor on a football shirt - I thought I was just wearing my colours/supporting my team. There have been sponsors - like Halo ITSM - that I don't even know what they are! But maybe, with things like betting sponsors, I have subconsciously used mental gymnastics to justify it to myself. Consciously I honestly haven't ever thought about it.
Re the offensive line, you were responding to a specific point I made, not the overall point of LGBTIQA+ feeling upset/less welcome at PR. I wouldn't do that and don't believe I have said anything that does that. None of the LGBTIQA+ people in this thread have attacked anything I've said, as far as I'm aware, but if I have offended any of you reading this I unreservedly apologise. I am a huge supporter of the community, as I said in the other thread I have been to several Pride events (London and New York), and I hope all feel - and can be made to feel - welcome at Portman Road. I have nothing more to say on the matter (many will be pleased to hear). |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:39 - Dec 3 with 1543 views | lowhouseblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:27 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe |
This isn't the first year it has happened, it is now it's 8th year doing it this way and in the PL out of at least 160 captains SM is now the 2nd not to wear it.
This has been a much more visible and successful campaign, and has grown exponentially over the last few years with it now seeing large chunks of the matchday on this particular week with the rainbows (pre match boards, sub boards, all parts around TV coverage), than the original people wearing laces which was a great step.
It's really not too much to ask of him to wear an armband to promote inclusivity |
rainbows on the pre match boards, sub boards, and all parts around TV coverage seems a good statement from clubs and football collectively. but, did we in past years, or will we this year, hunt down all those players who, for whatever reason, choose not to wear the laces? will we pile on to each and every one of them and determine that they are morally bad people? so why create a situation where individuals like morsy are exposed to this personalised shaming? it is unnecessarily divisive and oppressive. we want football collectively to make a statement but we've done it in a way that has ended up picking on an individual. that has to be a mistake. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:40 - Dec 3 with 1523 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:24 - Dec 3 by sjg |
I made a choice to stop buying shirts when Marcus Evans and Magical Vegas were the sponsors. I began buying shirts again when Ed Sheeran became sponsor. This is because I didn’t like the fact that either of them were on my club’s shirt. It’s not a difficult thing to grasp? |
No it's not. And it doesn't follow that those still wearing those shirts necessarily endorsed the sponsors on them. Some people were just wearing their colours/supporting their team. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 9:52]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:42 - Dec 3 with 1477 views | itfcjoe |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:32 - Dec 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The thing is you can also be a homophobic w@nker in your day to day life and still where the armband. It's skin deep gesture politics. (I feel the same about taking the knee)
This is not to say that Morsy hasn't chosen poorly. |
I don't necessarily disagree re gesture politics, but the problem is when there are gesture politics to not partake is also a gesture.
When all players were taking the knee, there came a time when a few black players (think Wilf Zaha was one) took the view they no longer wanted to do so because it was a gesture and wasn't achieving anything. A white player couldn't have taken that view and it be seen to be ok, which is understandable |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:42 - Dec 3 with 1475 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:27 - Dec 3 by FrimleyBlue |
sorry to tell you Flash, but if you did wear the town shirt with a betting sponsor on it, you were endorsing betting as you were helping to advertise them. IF you didnt want to endorse them then you would have chosen not to have worn a shirt with their logo on it. |
I was supporting my team. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:44 - Dec 3 with 1457 views | textbackup |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:40 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No it's not. And it doesn't follow that those still wearing those shirts necessarily endorsed the sponsors on them. Some people were just wearing their colours/supporting their team. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 9:52]
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If we were sponsored by ISIS, would you buy and wear the shirt?
Edit. The down vote speaks for itself 😂 [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 10:12]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:46 - Dec 3 with 1414 views | PassionNotAnger |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:37 - Dec 3 by waveneyblue |
Why don't you just spell out what you are consistently hinting at.
And then we can go from there.
Of you go, the floors yours...... |
No thank you
I've said what I wanted to and I've only responded to your words and actions - nothing more, nothing less.
I don't want to give anyone the chance to report abuse and get this thread removed/locked.
Personally I think this thread and most contributions (even yours) have been very insightful and prompted some really thought provoking stuff. We've already had some people acknowledging they are thinking differently now because of some of the posts which is great.
You don't want to change your view and that is your right as an anonymous poster on a message board - You haven't posted anything crossed a line that I've seen.
The key difference with Morsy though is that when he accepted the captaincy he will have been aware that it carries extra responsibility to be the positive face of the club and represent it's players and supporters alike (broadly by many of his actions that appears to have been the case) but he can't pick and choose (in my opinion) - The club supports wearing the armband in line with the rest of the league and if he cannot wear the armband in all good faith then he should relinquish it -- the fact that he didn't for me is wrong and the club are also wrong for not removing the captaincy at that point. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:46 - Dec 3 with 1409 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:36 - Dec 3 by textbackup |
I honestly can’t believe you don’t think wearing a shirt with a sponsor on it isn’t endorsing something. |
I thought I was endorsing Ipswich Town, but maybe that's just me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:47 - Dec 3 with 1392 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:40 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
No it's not. And it doesn't follow that those still wearing those shirts necessarily endorsed the sponsors on them. Some people were just wearing their colours/supporting their team. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 9:52]
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Flash, come on,
It's automatic endorsement. You might not have thought about it, but it's exactly what you were doing by wearing the shirt.
If town were sponsored by the labour party and you wore their shirt, you would be endorsing the labour party as you would be helping to share their exposure to the world each time you wore that shirt. You might be a tory at heart, but you would actually be supporting publicly their opponents by helping to advertise them. UNLESS of course you wrote FK on the shirt about the sponsor. At that point alone you've changed from supporting the sponsor to supporting the club by wearing the shirt but showing your disgust at the sponsor |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:47 - Dec 3 with 1368 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:46 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I thought I was endorsing Ipswich Town, but maybe that's just me. |
Question Flash
Why do companies pay big money for front of shirt sponsor.... | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:54 - Dec 3 with 1264 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:32 - Dec 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The thing is you can also be a homophobic w@nker in your day to day life and still where the armband. It's skin deep gesture politics. (I feel the same about taking the knee)
This is not to say that Morsy hasn't chosen poorly. |
It's wear you fekkin idiot! |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:55 - Dec 3 with 1254 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:46 - Dec 3 by PassionNotAnger |
No thank you
I've said what I wanted to and I've only responded to your words and actions - nothing more, nothing less.
I don't want to give anyone the chance to report abuse and get this thread removed/locked.
Personally I think this thread and most contributions (even yours) have been very insightful and prompted some really thought provoking stuff. We've already had some people acknowledging they are thinking differently now because of some of the posts which is great.
You don't want to change your view and that is your right as an anonymous poster on a message board - You haven't posted anything crossed a line that I've seen.
The key difference with Morsy though is that when he accepted the captaincy he will have been aware that it carries extra responsibility to be the positive face of the club and represent it's players and supporters alike (broadly by many of his actions that appears to have been the case) but he can't pick and choose (in my opinion) - The club supports wearing the armband in line with the rest of the league and if he cannot wear the armband in all good faith then he should relinquish it -- the fact that he didn't for me is wrong and the club are also wrong for not removing the captaincy at that point. |
Had a feeling that would be your response.
Just be careful because I know exactly what you were getting at and you were on incredibly thin ice.
Im leaving this debate now, for the most its been pretty sensible but some of the comments and suggestions are beginning to get ridiculous. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:58 - Dec 3 with 1219 views | rkc123 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:52 - Dec 2 by N2_Blue |
I don't know because i' m not Sam Morsy. I'm not keen to deny anything, i don't know why he makes the decision and niether do you.
But i'm uncomfortable with anyone labeling somone a homophobe when there is no direct evidence that he is. Not wearing the armband does not make you a homophobe. |
I haven't got to the end of this thread so someone may have made this point, and I am happy to be corrected if I have missed something, but I haven't seen any statement from Morsy on the issue? He himself hasn't made any explanation of why he is refusing to wear the armband, or put any message of inclusion out to say that he does welcome LGBTQIA+ fans or players in the game? He's let the club speak for him, I don't think it's unreasonable to say he shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt on this, and it should be asked what are his actual views on supporters of the club from the LGBTQIA+ community, how would he feel about a player in the team coming out? [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 10:29]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:06 - Dec 3 with 1130 views | PassionNotAnger |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:55 - Dec 3 by waveneyblue |
Had a feeling that would be your response.
Just be careful because I know exactly what you were getting at and you were on incredibly thin ice.
Im leaving this debate now, for the most its been pretty sensible but some of the comments and suggestions are beginning to get ridiculous. |
I don't need any warnings from you - I was being careful and considered with every post.
If you are worried about what people "think" you might "be" or drawing conclusions you wouldn't be comfortable with (true or not) then perhaps you should consider how what you've said (and not said) has come across on this debate. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:07 - Dec 3 with 1119 views | GlasgowBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:27 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I have supported those from the community in this thread. I've written one long post to one praising their bravery.
I don't know why you've added all this other stuff. I have accepted his stance is wrong. I have simply asked this morning - on the wearing a gambling sponsor point - whether that is strictly against the rules, because I don't know. |
Your use of the word “bravery” is interesting here. It should not be brave to be openly gay. It should not cause mental anguish, that as one poster said on here caused suicidal thoughts. It should be no more “brave” to be gay than it is to be straight.
This is reason we need our leaders and role models to take part in the rainbow laces campaign. So that the next generation will be brought up without prejudice, the nudge nudge wink wink humour, the sickening put downs and the ceaseless bullying of the LGBTQ+ community. In fact I’m loathed to use the term community as it’s a form of othering or separation . They are members of our community. They are our friends and our relatives.
I feel very strongly about this and I’m a wee bit pissed off you are pushing back against it tbh. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:11 - Dec 3 with 1080 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:58 - Dec 3 by rkc123 |
I haven't got to the end of this thread so someone may have made this point, and I am happy to be corrected if I have missed something, but I haven't seen any statement from Morsy on the issue? He himself hasn't made any explanation of why he is refusing to wear the armband, or put any message of inclusion out to say that he does welcome LGBTQIA+ fans or players in the game? He's let the club speak for him, I don't think it's unreasonable to say he shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt on this, and it should be asked what are his actual views on supporters of the club from the LGBTQIA+ community, how would he feel about a player in the team coming out? [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 10:29]
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"some of his historic posts, likes, and shares on social media (which have now been deleted I believe, but a few I remember seeing could be described as nothing but homophobic".
Wasn't aware of that I must say. Can it be verified even if the posts have been deleted?
That there hasn't been any statement or message from him has been key to this thread, several people pointing to the fact that we don't know his rationale, including myself going down the "don't judge someone till you've walked a mile in their shoes" line. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:13 - Dec 3 with 1064 views | Swailsey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:07 - Dec 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Your use of the word “bravery” is interesting here. It should not be brave to be openly gay. It should not cause mental anguish, that as one poster said on here caused suicidal thoughts. It should be no more “brave” to be gay than it is to be straight.
This is reason we need our leaders and role models to take part in the rainbow laces campaign. So that the next generation will be brought up without prejudice, the nudge nudge wink wink humour, the sickening put downs and the ceaseless bullying of the LGBTQ+ community. In fact I’m loathed to use the term community as it’s a form of othering or separation . They are members of our community. They are our friends and our relatives.
I feel very strongly about this and I’m a wee bit pissed off you are pushing back against it tbh. |
It’s that simple. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:15 - Dec 3 with 1033 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:06 - Dec 3 by PassionNotAnger |
I don't need any warnings from you - I was being careful and considered with every post.
If you are worried about what people "think" you might "be" or drawing conclusions you wouldn't be comfortable with (true or not) then perhaps you should consider how what you've said (and not said) has come across on this debate. |
Oh give over.
Its blatantly obvious what you are getting at.
So come on, just come out with it.
Then we can deal with it from there. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:15 - Dec 3 with 1026 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:07 - Dec 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Your use of the word “bravery” is interesting here. It should not be brave to be openly gay. It should not cause mental anguish, that as one poster said on here caused suicidal thoughts. It should be no more “brave” to be gay than it is to be straight.
This is reason we need our leaders and role models to take part in the rainbow laces campaign. So that the next generation will be brought up without prejudice, the nudge nudge wink wink humour, the sickening put downs and the ceaseless bullying of the LGBTQ+ community. In fact I’m loathed to use the term community as it’s a form of othering or separation . They are members of our community. They are our friends and our relatives.
I feel very strongly about this and I’m a wee bit pissed off you are pushing back against it tbh. |
"Yes it is sad. Both how I've had to describe it and Morsy's stance. Yes it is unwelcoming and yes it gives credence to homophobia. It's a real shame."
"If I have offended any of you reading this I unreservedly apologise. I am a huge supporter of the community, as I said in the other thread I have been to several Pride events (London and New York), and I hope all feel - and can be made to feel - welcome at Portman Road."
"I think he's wrong. I don't know how many times I have to say it."
Several more by the looks of it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:21 - Dec 3 with 1443 views | N2_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:58 - Dec 3 by rkc123 |
I haven't got to the end of this thread so someone may have made this point, and I am happy to be corrected if I have missed something, but I haven't seen any statement from Morsy on the issue? He himself hasn't made any explanation of why he is refusing to wear the armband, or put any message of inclusion out to say that he does welcome LGBTQIA+ fans or players in the game? He's let the club speak for him, I don't think it's unreasonable to say he shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt on this, and it should be asked what are his actual views on supporters of the club from the LGBTQIA+ community, how would he feel about a player in the team coming out? [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 10:29]
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If that's genuinely the case re social media then obvioulsy that is not good and incredibly disappointing.
That does call in question more on the club, Mckenna etc. Not easy to say, but it does, Kieran will have final say on who his captain is so it's disappointing all round.
He shouldn't be captain if there is direct evidence of homophobia.
I would like to know if something happened around the deletion of posts, did Morsy make sincere apologies, state he no longer shares those views etc but without any delcaration in public it does make things more difficult to give the benefit of doubt.
I still stand by a lot of what i have said in subseqent posts that you may not yet have seen, however thank you for making me aware of historical stuff from Sam (if true). Very disappoiting that has to be said. But then the club should never have been in this situation because 'if' that is the case he should not be the captain. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 10:23]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:22 - Dec 3 with 1439 views | PassionNotAnger |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:15 - Dec 3 by waveneyblue |
Oh give over.
Its blatantly obvious what you are getting at.
So come on, just come out with it.
Then we can deal with it from there. |
I've already said what I wanted to.
If you think it's blatantly obvious there is no need for further dialogue?
That said, If you think I hold a view on your posts that you aren't comfortable with or is wrong then perhaps spend your energy pondering why someone would come to an inaccurate conclusion based only on your posts on this thread? | | | |
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