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Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this? Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:44 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe
Interesting that you didn't answer my question, "Were you endorsing Magical Vegas when you were wearing those shirts?!?"
Just like yesterday when you said I was being offensive and I asked who I was being offensive to. Silence.
Sadly, I thought you were a good poster, but you are just another one of those who throw barbs and then when challenged on them you can't answer so you just do a runner.
But I'm sure you'll find a funny gif or meme to respond to this with rather than answer. Once again.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:03 - Dec 3 with 1370 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:40 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe
Yes it's true, Darren Pratley was the club captain but barely starting so had captained them generally when he had played.
Idris had been captain for 8 out of 9 games (wasn't when Pratley played in one) leading up to the Derby game which was their Rainbow Laces fixture, for that game Tom James wore the captains armband for the only time that season. After this Idris was captain for one more game a few months later
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:47 - Dec 3 by Swailsey
It’s wild. It’s well known that many town fans boycotted Magical Vegas shirts, and increasingly ME by the end of it, opting for retro replicas. Other fans boycott gambling logos as protest. There’s a reason that ES shirts sold so well.
But, by your logic, you're saying all those who continued to wear the Magical Vegas shirts - because they were actually Ipswich Town shirts - we're endorsing Magical Vegas.
I'm done with this. You're all mad.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
1
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:06 - Dec 3 with 1346 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:05 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
But, by your logic, you're saying all those who continued to wear the Magical Vegas shirts - because they were actually Ipswich Town shirts - we're endorsing Magical Vegas.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:52 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe
It's just a lot of words to say not a lot there, maybe it is opt in, and everyone else has decided to opt in and that's what makes it appear as it is? We don't know that's not the case and if it was opt in or opt out it makes no difference if all bar 1 person is doing it - that leaves them in a position of their choice being an outlier and investigated in the same way it would lead to questioning of a lone captain deciding to wear a rainbow armband next week on his own vs his peers.
so why not stop at just the opt-in rainbow laces campaign? to be fair to stonewall that seems to be all they are seeking. that's 300 odd players over a weekend who get to choose and i'd bet a majority would opt-in and wear the laces. that way you avoid the focus being on the individuals who choose not to, and you avoid a divisive debate about why they didn't and you avoid a moralistic witch hunt against the people who don't. you have a positive story about the great many who chose to make a particular statement. forcing people like morsy into a highly individual test of you're either for us or your against us and if you're against us you're very bad is entirely counter productive.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:09 - Dec 3 with 1312 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:05 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
But, by your logic, you're saying all those who continued to wear the Magical Vegas shirts - because they were actually Ipswich Town shirts - we're endorsing Magical Vegas.
I'm done with this. You're all mad.
Flash you have to be trolling surely.
Yes everyone who wore a town shirt with Magical Vegas on it was endorsing the sponsor, many like you clearly, without realising that, that is exactly what they are doing.
Now, if you didn't wish to endorse them and felt strongly against them, you could then never wear the shirt again.
An option Morsy had if he decided to retire, or join non league football instead of wearing certain kits for many seasons.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:39 - Dec 3 by PassionNotAnger
I haven’t “alleged” anything, I have merely expressed my observation that you’ve contributed many posts in this thread defending Morsy from “having” to wear an armband because of his religion (which is that homosexuality is a sin) whilst failing to acknowledge, support or empathize with 3 of your fellow fans sharing their actual experience and feelings on the subject.
I have pondered your motivates for that, as I’m sure others have. Equally many are also probably pondering why Morsy feels able to wear a shirt promoting betting with a club who were paying his wages from their budget which had benefitted from the betting companies money yet he cannot bring himself to wear a simple and symbolic armband to support a marginalized group.
Defend not Deflect
No, not at all - Nobody can see what you were aiming at . Must have been me.
Right, lets get into perspective the wearing of a betting logo that's on a shirt for EVERY game and specifically wearing a rainbow armband for one/two SPECIFIC
The betting company are a SPONSOR of the club, they pay money to appear on the kits and thus expect the WHOLE TEAM to wear said logo.
The Rainbow armband is worn to show SUPPORT to a specific cause.
Key words hear and SPONSOR and SUPPORT - very different.
I would put money on (no pun intended) that if Morsy or another practising Muslim had been asked to appear in a specific advert for that betting company - Say "Boosted odds week, or Cheltenham" - he/they would have chosen not to do it.
However you want to twist it, manipulate it or whatever, whilst related (in so far its part of football) these are two VERY different things.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:54 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe
Do you think it is written in the Quran that footballers can wear shirts with betting sponsors but not rainbow armbands?
Who's being silly now?
Wearing a football shirt isn't personally endorsing any sponsors on it. So wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor doesn't mean you endorse betting. I've worn Ipswich shirts with betting sponsors - so have you. Can't speak for you but I don't endorse gambling. I've been clear on that on these pages before with Rommers and Ryorry re horse racing.
Choosing to wear a rainbow armband is deliberately choosing to support that cause.
Sam Morsy's ill-judged rainbow armband statement was bad enough. The club supporting his position is nothing short of a PR disaster. It's been reported all over the world! Quite apart from damaging the club's reputation - the issue itself needs to be looked at. If a player isn't comfortable saying that "Ipswich Town welcomes players, fans and visitors of any and all sexual orientation" then that player has no business wearing the shirt. Let alone being the "captain". Just think of the impact of Morsy's bigoted views on young emerging players who happen to be gay or whatever 'non-traditional' sexual orientation they feel comfortable with. Welcome?? I don't think so. You can't do tolerance 'a la carte' - Morsy is wrong and should keep his unpleasant prejudices to himself. Or not be captain. Or not even show up. Love him as a footballer. But very very disappointed in him as a leader.
Do you think we should sell Morsy next month?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:20 - Dec 3 with 1189 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:09 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
I have replied to a direct attack.
So what?
Some of the best posts I've seen on TWTD are on this thread; posters wearing their hearts on their sleeves, explaining how this entire situation affects them personally.
And on the flip side, there's you, ploughing the same rigid argumentative furrow you've pursued for the last 10 years, over very little indeed.
Read the room and shut up, man.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:20 - Dec 3 with 1188 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:59 - Dec 3 by FrimleyBlue
No you would he supporting and endorsing eds tour. As an individual you may not like his music but you were helping to advertise his tour.
Same as M.E. you would have been endorsing and advertising the ME group. Again you may individually not like the man who owns it. But you were happy enough to endorse his company.
What did you personally think you were doing wearing a town shirt with a sponsor on it. Why does a sponsor pay to have their name on the shirt..... the answer is to get advertising and you've given them that advertising which itself is support for them as you are helping them.
"you were happy enough to endorse his company"
No I wasn't. I was wearing my football team's shirt. I had no choice in the sponsor.
"What did you personally think you were doing wearing a town shirt with a sponsor on it."
I thought I was wearing my football team's shirt. I had no choice in the sponsor.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:22 - Dec 3 with 1177 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:03 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
Interesting that you didn't answer my question, "Were you endorsing Magical Vegas when you were wearing those shirts?!?"
Just like yesterday when you said I was being offensive and I asked who I was being offensive to. Silence.
Sadly, I thought you were a good poster, but you are just another one of those who throw barbs and then when challenged on them you can't answer so you just do a runner.
But I'm sure you'll find a funny gif or meme to respond to this with rather than answer. Once again.
Ok, here goes - of course Ipswich fans were endorsing Magical Vegas.
They were making decisions on a sliding scale where at one end of the spectrum was I love Ipswich and will wear anything with their badge on it to I hate gambling and wouldn't wear anything with Gambling references on it. Everywhere will pick a different point on that spectrum, use their own mental gymnastics, to justify that and for some it will result in them being happy to wear the shirt and for others it will mean they aren't.
My view was I hated Magical Vegas as a sponsor, but wanted the shirt but knew I was endorsing them and giving them they exposure they wanted, and was comfortable enough doing this because I loved Ipswich more than I hated a gambling sponsor.
Re the offensive line, you've now seen posters saying how reading some of the comments on this thread and in the news comments has upset them, made them feel less welcome at PR etc - again join the dots on this one rather than digging a hole
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:20 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
"you were happy enough to endorse his company"
No I wasn't. I was wearing my football team's shirt. I had no choice in the sponsor.
"What did you personally think you were doing wearing a town shirt with a sponsor on it."
I thought I was wearing my football team's shirt. I had no choice in the sponsor.
I made a choice to stop buying shirts when Marcus Evans and Magical Vegas were the sponsors. I began buying shirts again when Ed Sheeran became sponsor. This is because I didn’t like the fact that either of them were on my club’s shirt. It’s not a difficult thing to grasp?
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:25 - Dec 3 with 1144 views
I can imagine they'll be some fevered conversations around the club today. The rather lame statement from the club has not taken any heat out of the story. As previously mentioned, this is finding national interest and has featured on the Radio news thus morning. I felt sad hearing it. This has became a huge (albeit rare) misstep from first Sam and secondly the club. As long as the story lasts, this is now our narrative and it's one we could do without, especially at a time when we need to be strong and united around the football more than ever. I can't see how the club are going to get through the day without either releasing another statement or stronger still, taking some action. Respect always to our LGBT+ friends who have made some incredible contributions here. To my shame, my initial reaction was that whilst I'd rather Morsy wore the armband, I was hoping it would quickly blow over, but some of the comments here have focussed my mind and I now just feel disappointed with Sam and the club. Not sure how this one is going to play out.
Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:26 - Dec 3 with 1119 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:16 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
Who's being silly now?
Wearing a football shirt isn't personally endorsing any sponsors on it. So wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor doesn't mean you endorse betting. I've worn Ipswich shirts with betting sponsors - so have you. Can't speak for you but I don't endorse gambling. I've been clear on that on these pages before with Rommers and Ryorry re horse racing.
Choosing to wear a rainbow armband is deliberately choosing to support that cause.
It's not difficult to understand the distinction.
If Ed Sheeran went on a homophobic or racist rant in public, would you still be comfortable wearing a shirt with his logo on the front? I would worry that by doing so people would assume that I endorsed his opinions.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:27 - Dec 3 with 1097 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:07 - Dec 3 by lowhouseblue
so why not stop at just the opt-in rainbow laces campaign? to be fair to stonewall that seems to be all they are seeking. that's 300 odd players over a weekend who get to choose and i'd bet a majority would opt-in and wear the laces. that way you avoid the focus being on the individuals who choose not to, and you avoid a divisive debate about why they didn't and you avoid a moralistic witch hunt against the people who don't. you have a positive story about the great many who chose to make a particular statement. forcing people like morsy into a highly individual test of you're either for us or your against us and if you're against us you're very bad is entirely counter productive.
This isn't the first year it has happened, it is now it's 8th year doing it this way and in the PL out of at least 160 captains SM is now the 2nd not to wear it.
This has been a much more visible and successful campaign, and has grown exponentially over the last few years with it now seeing large chunks of the matchday on this particular week with the rainbows (pre match boards, sub boards, all parts around TV coverage), than the original people wearing laces which was a great step.
It's really not too much to ask of him to wear an armband to promote inclusivity
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:24 - Dec 3 by sjg
I made a choice to stop buying shirts when Marcus Evans and Magical Vegas were the sponsors. I began buying shirts again when Ed Sheeran became sponsor. This is because I didn’t like the fact that either of them were on my club’s shirt. It’s not a difficult thing to grasp?
So you were able to make a personal choice reflecting on your feelings and beliefs.
Bang.....
I think you might have just shot yourself in the foot
0
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:27 - Dec 3 with 1086 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:16 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
Who's being silly now?
Wearing a football shirt isn't personally endorsing any sponsors on it. So wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor doesn't mean you endorse betting. I've worn Ipswich shirts with betting sponsors - so have you. Can't speak for you but I don't endorse gambling. I've been clear on that on these pages before with Rommers and Ryorry re horse racing.
Choosing to wear a rainbow armband is deliberately choosing to support that cause.
It's not difficult to understand the distinction.
sorry to tell you Flash, but if you did wear the town shirt with a betting sponsor on it, you were endorsing betting as you were helping to advertise them. IF you didnt want to endorse them then you would have chosen not to have worn a shirt with their logo on it.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:33 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
Blimey. Not once, when have I donned a Town shirt, have I thought to myself that I'm endorsing this sponsor.
That throws up some interesting stuff. So everyone wearing the current shirts loves all of Ed Sheeran's music. And Rommers is in an interesting position - when he was wearing the name Marcus Evans across his chest, he was endorsing him while at the same time slagging him off on here!
This debate has made people lose their mind. Sadly.
You are promoting Ed Sheeran. Doesn’t mean you love his music but you are promoting his music. Just as you are promoting gambling when wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor.
Why do you think that the kids shirts aren’t printed with betting sponsors?
If Sam is prepared to set his religious beliefs aside for 40+ games a season promoting a betting firm then he should be able to set aside his religious beliefs aside for one or two games a season to promote love and inclusivity.
I hope that he may have read some of the comments online over the weekend and do the right thing tonight.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:27 - Dec 3 by waveneyblue
So you were able to make a personal choice reflecting on your feelings and beliefs.
Bang.....
I think you might have just shot yourself in the foot
Morsy could have made a choice by leaving the club that endorsed gambling, he CHOSE not to and continued to play whilst endorsing their business.
The poster is right in that he had a choice which enabled him to stand by his beliefs by not buying the shirt and supporting the sponsor, Morsy decided that money was more important than his religious beliefs in that situation, which again his his choice to make but he can't hide behind that belief in regards to the armband, for that reason, he should not be club captain going forwards as the community and inclusivity is more important than 1 person especially one that picks and chooses when his religious beliefs are important to him.
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 08:52 - Dec 3 by itfcjoe
It's just a lot of words to say not a lot there, maybe it is opt in, and everyone else has decided to opt in and that's what makes it appear as it is? We don't know that's not the case and if it was opt in or opt out it makes no difference if all bar 1 person is doing it - that leaves them in a position of their choice being an outlier and investigated in the same way it would lead to questioning of a lone captain deciding to wear a rainbow armband next week on his own vs his peers.
The thing is you can also be a homophobic w@nker in your day to day life and still where the armband. It's skin deep gesture politics. (I feel the same about taking the knee) This is not to say that Morsy hasn't chosen poorly.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:12 - Dec 3 by waveneyblue
No, not at all - Nobody can see what you were aiming at . Must have been me.
Right, lets get into perspective the wearing of a betting logo that's on a shirt for EVERY game and specifically wearing a rainbow armband for one/two SPECIFIC
The betting company are a SPONSOR of the club, they pay money to appear on the kits and thus expect the WHOLE TEAM to wear said logo.
The Rainbow armband is worn to show SUPPORT to a specific cause.
Key words hear and SPONSOR and SUPPORT - very different.
I would put money on (no pun intended) that if Morsy or another practising Muslim had been asked to appear in a specific advert for that betting company - Say "Boosted odds week, or Cheltenham" - he/they would have chosen not to do it.
However you want to twist it, manipulate it or whatever, whilst related (in so far its part of football) these are two VERY different things.
But keep on keeping on if it fits your agenda.
I'm entirely sure others will have joined the dots as I have and drawn a similar view on your motives but I didn't "allege" anything - I was very specific and careful with my words .
I am aware of the differences but thank you for your explanation. It doesn't change anything.
What "agenda" do you think I have?
I think Morsy was wrong to refuse to wear the armband I accept it's his right to believe what he wants I don't think he should be a club captain if he won't wear the armband
That's not an agenda - it's called having morals.
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My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:36 - Dec 3 with 1552 views
My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 09:16 - Dec 3 by The_Flashing_Smile
Who's being silly now?
Wearing a football shirt isn't personally endorsing any sponsors on it. So wearing a shirt with a betting sponsor doesn't mean you endorse betting. I've worn Ipswich shirts with betting sponsors - so have you. Can't speak for you but I don't endorse gambling. I've been clear on that on these pages before with Rommers and Ryorry re horse racing.
Choosing to wear a rainbow armband is deliberately choosing to support that cause.
It's not difficult to understand the distinction.
I honestly can’t believe you don’t think wearing a shirt with a sponsor on it isn’t endorsing something.
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