| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77760 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:03 - Dec 2 with 2179 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:59 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
Which legal cases are you referring to where a captaincy has been passed from one football player to another.
Again. The captain can be who ever the manager wants it to be. You don't even need a reason. |
Sigh
OK, it wouldn't cause any problems at all, if an employee was treated differently because of his beliefs.
I can't believe I've made up such rubbish. I'm sorry for being so foolish.
Forgive me |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:09 - Dec 2 with 2121 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again -
Going back to my point on Frimley's post -
If the club stripped a player of the Captaincy, purely because of his religious beliefs - it would kick off like no tomorrow.
They simply CANNOT do it for a variety of reasons. I would imagine employment lawyers would have an absolute field day. |
Yep. ‘Religion or belief’ is also one of the protected characteristics under the Equality Act. It would open up a can of worms or worse for the club. I don’t know who comes out on top of that one - Sam could likely prove he was being discriminated against, whereas he’s not actual discriminating against anyone (just had a view which people find distasteful, which isn’t illegal). So I expect in that scenario the club could be taken to the cleaners. They’re not daft enough to go there though, so it’s a moot point. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:10 - Dec 2 with 2114 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:03 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Sigh
OK, it wouldn't cause any problems at all, if an employee was treated differently because of his beliefs.
I can't believe I've made up such rubbish. I'm sorry for being so foolish.
Forgive me |
I'll forgive you as you seem confused about the captaincy being solely upto the manager who needs not give any reason for changing captains. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:11 - Dec 2 with 2102 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:03 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Sigh
OK, it wouldn't cause any problems at all, if an employee was treated differently because of his beliefs.
I can't believe I've made up such rubbish. I'm sorry for being so foolish.
Forgive me |
if an employee was treated differently because of his discriminatory beliefs.
There, I've corrected it for you. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:11 - Dec 2 with 2099 views | Sharkey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:00 - Dec 2 by Churchman |
I understand there are many different versions of Islam as there are other religions. I don’t know enough about it or him to weigh what is important to Morsy and what isn’t. All I can say is that in over three years, he comes across as a dedicated and caring individual (just watch him with the mascots for example) and I’m not going to judge him.
Do I wish he’d worn it? Of course for all the reasons, including PointofBlue’s really excellent post, in this thread and what I believe in.
As for the club, they were damned whatever they did on this. Strip him of the captaincy and you don’t need a crystal ball to work out the headlines.
As an aside, why do they bother with armbands? They never used to and the ref seem to know who Mick Mills was. |
On a slightly different tangent, I wish the captain were more important in football, as it is in cricket and rugby, and he was the person the ref went to to say ‘tell your players… ‘ (e.g. “I notice you’re taking it in turns to kick their number 7. The next one who does is going to get booked even it’s his first offence.” I liked it when the ref called the captains over in a recent game to say that Var wasn’t working, and that was that. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:12 - Dec 2 with 2091 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:09 - Dec 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep. ‘Religion or belief’ is also one of the protected characteristics under the Equality Act. It would open up a can of worms or worse for the club. I don’t know who comes out on top of that one - Sam could likely prove he was being discriminated against, whereas he’s not actual discriminating against anyone (just had a view which people find distasteful, which isn’t illegal). So I expect in that scenario the club could be taken to the cleaners. They’re not daft enough to go there though, so it’s a moot point. |
The funny thing is, many of you are saying what a great guy he is. Yet you now deem that he would take the club to the cleaners because they wanted someone to wear an armband.
So you either feel he is a good man and the club have fked up by not sorting it with him to have someone else represent the club.
Or he's not actually a nice guy and the club needs to be wary of him. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:13 - Dec 2 with 2082 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:00 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I wouldn't say Morsy as an individual is homophobic, at least not without definitive proof beyond not wearing the armband. I do wish he had released a statement/spoken directly about his decision rather than the club doing it on his behalf. Though, in the back of my mind, something tells me he may have done so in the first year. I cannot find anything on it though; a Google search just covers this season. |
I'm very interested in your point of view, pointofblue. 🙃
It kind of echoes Stonewall's statement to The Mirror on this issue:
"In response to Morsy's refusal to wear a Rainbow armband, a Stonewall spokesperson said: “It has been incredible to see so many football teams at all levels support our Rainbow Laces campaign to make sport safer and more inclusive for all.
"When clubs like Ipswich Town FC show their support, it helps people feel safe and welcome both on and off the pitch. It is up to individuals to choose if and how they show their support for LGBTQ+ inclusion in sport.”
You are a gentleman/lady (sorry, not sure if you posted your gender 🙈😬) You accept the middle ground, as do Stonewall, as do I.
I would gladly share a pint and a chat with you, and anyone else who is prepared to be open, honest, and kind to others. We are all human beings, living our lives. I wish you peace, and I hope you don't feel uncomfortable at the match tomorrow. Please enjoy the game!
It's totally possible to be on different poles on an issue, but still value another human and wish them well. Sadly, toxic media outlets invite outrage and polarisation, where actually, a broader outlook would be wiser, and possibly, more representative. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:14 - Dec 2 with 2060 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:09 - Dec 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep. ‘Religion or belief’ is also one of the protected characteristics under the Equality Act. It would open up a can of worms or worse for the club. I don’t know who comes out on top of that one - Sam could likely prove he was being discriminated against, whereas he’s not actual discriminating against anyone (just had a view which people find distasteful, which isn’t illegal). So I expect in that scenario the club could be taken to the cleaners. They’re not daft enough to go there though, so it’s a moot point. |
Thank you Swansea Blue for explaining something that Frimley and his mates just can't seem to grasp.
I'm not saying Morsy is right or wrong - because I can see both sides.
Something which seems to completely bypass most people who post on here. | | | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:16 - Dec 2 with 2045 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:11 - Dec 2 by orfordbuoy |
if an employee was treated differently because of his discriminatory beliefs.
There, I've corrected it for you. |
Absolute tosh -
If you are somehow in a position of authority in a business, tread very carefully, losing legal cases is a very expensive pastime | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:17 - Dec 2 with 2035 views | Churchman |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:11 - Dec 2 by Sharkey |
On a slightly different tangent, I wish the captain were more important in football, as it is in cricket and rugby, and he was the person the ref went to to say ‘tell your players… ‘ (e.g. “I notice you’re taking it in turns to kick their number 7. The next one who does is going to get booked even it’s his first offence.” I liked it when the ref called the captains over in a recent game to say that Var wasn’t working, and that was that. |
Agree with you Sharkey. I’m amazed they’re not used in this way more in the modern game. If done right it’d potentially stop players chipping away and influencing referees and I too noticed the way the VAR problem was dealt with. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:18 - Dec 2 with 2034 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:14 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Thank you Swansea Blue for explaining something that Frimley and his mates just can't seem to grasp.
I'm not saying Morsy is right or wrong - because I can see both sides.
Something which seems to completely bypass most people who post on here. |
Because you're talking of a role that needs no reason to be changed. KM could literally tomorrow choose Chaplin as captain and there's nothing morsy could do about it other than moan of course.
IF however KM put morsy in the u21s because he refused to wear the armband. Now that's a different story. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:19 - Dec 2 with 2010 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:10 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
I'll forgive you as you seem confused about the captaincy being solely upto the manager who needs not give any reason for changing captains. |
Having you trying to correct me (and making a pig's ear of it) is one of my greatest moments on here.
Thank you | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:20 - Dec 2 with 1987 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:19 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Having you trying to correct me (and making a pig's ear of it) is one of my greatest moments on here.
Thank you |
Question
If morsy is on the bench next week and Phillips plays. Can morsy take the club to the cleaners? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:23 - Dec 2 with 1963 views | tcblue |
Have we done "Morsy's faith didn't stop him wearing betting sponsor logos at Middlesbrough" yet? |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:25 - Dec 2 with 1954 views | Suffolktractor |
For those of you that think Morsy shouldn’t captain the team due to not wearing the rainbow armband and several of you calling him homophobic due to that. Do you feel he should actually be in the team at all? Should he be at the club? Will you celebrate if he scores the winner tomorrow? | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:33 - Dec 2 with 1855 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:25 - Dec 2 by Suffolktractor |
For those of you that think Morsy shouldn’t captain the team due to not wearing the rainbow armband and several of you calling him homophobic due to that. Do you feel he should actually be in the team at all? Should he be at the club? Will you celebrate if he scores the winner tomorrow? |
The thing is the club had to find a way to not align with Morsy's 'homophobic' gesture - that he would not wear the armband to support inclusion. Perhaps the club should have made a statement that it does not align with Morsy's stance, and does not support discrimination and does support inclusion - before the match.
Either way
it's a terrible image for the club amongst its fans and millions of sports fans abroad. Apparently great, though, in Egypt. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 22:36]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:33 - Dec 2 with 1854 views | urbanpenguin |
I haven't got the time or energy to read the 11 pages of this thread, so sorry if this is a repeat of things that have been stated or argued against.
As a gay fan I am beyond disappointed. If there had have been something like the rainbow campaign when I was a teenager I may not have been suicidal or doubting my identity. Maybe I still would have, maybe not, I have no way of knowing.
but I do know that to wear a silly rainbow is a tiny gesture for a full-grown man to do, yet it could have a huge impact for other teenagers - or adults - who are part of this club and its fan base.
I am not going to get into the discussion/argument around religion and protected beliefs, other than to say that the rainbow campaign is not about "beliefs" or being "pro gay", it is about human rights and equality, and i can only assume that by not wearing the armband every other captain managed to that he personally believes me and other LGBTQ+ people to not be equal, to not be worthy of those rights, and to be less welcome in the club he is captain of. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 22:51]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:35 - Dec 2 with 1820 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:20 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
Question
If morsy is on the bench next week and Phillips plays. Can morsy take the club to the cleaners? |
I'm finding it increasingly difficult to stay polite to you, I've already changed my response several times.
No, obviously he couldn't.
Unless (and this is the important bit, so pay attention) - it was made clear to him that he was on the bench because of his religious beliefs and nothing to do with footballing reasons.
Please tell me you understand the difference, as I am really losing my patience now. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:37 - Dec 2 with 1803 views | urbanpenguin |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:33 - Dec 2 by urbanpenguin |
I haven't got the time or energy to read the 11 pages of this thread, so sorry if this is a repeat of things that have been stated or argued against.
As a gay fan I am beyond disappointed. If there had have been something like the rainbow campaign when I was a teenager I may not have been suicidal or doubting my identity. Maybe I still would have, maybe not, I have no way of knowing.
but I do know that to wear a silly rainbow is a tiny gesture for a full-grown man to do, yet it could have a huge impact for other teenagers - or adults - who are part of this club and its fan base.
I am not going to get into the discussion/argument around religion and protected beliefs, other than to say that the rainbow campaign is not about "beliefs" or being "pro gay", it is about human rights and equality, and i can only assume that by not wearing the armband every other captain managed to that he personally believes me and other LGBTQ+ people to not be equal, to not be worthy of those rights, and to be less welcome in the club he is captain of. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 22:51]
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And I should add that while I haven't read this thread, my posting here was as a result of just having read the news story and the many posts under it. Those and the huge down/upvotes that seemingly align with views that make me feel less welcome at the club. I found some of the comments really depressing. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:41 - Dec 2 with 1728 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:35 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
I'm finding it increasingly difficult to stay polite to you, I've already changed my response several times.
No, obviously he couldn't.
Unless (and this is the important bit, so pay attention) - it was made clear to him that he was on the bench because of his religious beliefs and nothing to do with footballing reasons.
Please tell me you understand the difference, as I am really losing my patience now. |
No need to be polite. I can take it.
So you've agreed he couldn't take the club to the cleaners for making a football decision.
So. Again as you've struggled with this bit.
The club knowing full well morsy wouldn't wear the armband.. could have changed captain ( again no need to disclose why if they didn't want to) and morsy couldn't have taken them to the cleaners.
That's the bullish way but was doable.
Or. They could have had a good chat with him and Sam being the nice guy you all say he is would have agreed with changing captain.
Either way there would be no taking the club to the cleaners... | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:44 - Dec 2 with 1685 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:37 - Dec 2 by urbanpenguin |
And I should add that while I haven't read this thread, my posting here was as a result of just having read the news story and the many posts under it. Those and the huge down/upvotes that seemingly align with views that make me feel less welcome at the club. I found some of the comments really depressing. |
For every 1 dkhead there's 5 nicer people.
The volume of support in this thread may hopefully provide a little comfort that there's a large majority who are very welcoming.
Take comfort in that as PR is similar. Unfortunately there will still be dkheads sat around PR, but around those dkheads are groups of people who are very approachable. Kind and accepting.
Don't let anything put you off. There will always be support if it's needed. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:45 - Dec 2 with 1676 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:37 - Dec 2 by urbanpenguin |
And I should add that while I haven't read this thread, my posting here was as a result of just having read the news story and the many posts under it. Those and the huge down/upvotes that seemingly align with views that make me feel less welcome at the club. I found some of the comments really depressing. |
The news section has always had a very different outlook to the forum. This thread has a lot of warmth and understanding amongst the debate, which I am grateful for. I'm sorry to heat what you went through and can understand why how you did. I also agree there is a very important reason behind seeing the armband though, if Morsy had just worn it, maybe it would not have led to the debate we've had on here, with introspection and understanding - trying to look for a silver lining. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:45 - Dec 2 with 1671 views | Kievthegreat |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:37 - Dec 2 by urbanpenguin |
And I should add that while I haven't read this thread, my posting here was as a result of just having read the news story and the many posts under it. Those and the huge down/upvotes that seemingly align with views that make me feel less welcome at the club. I found some of the comments really depressing. |
I never really pay much attention to news comments, but decided to venture over. Genuinely shocking seeing both some of the comments, but as you say the big swing in up/downvotes. Proof that Neanderthals still walk among us. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:47 - Dec 2 with 1627 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:41 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
No need to be polite. I can take it.
So you've agreed he couldn't take the club to the cleaners for making a football decision.
So. Again as you've struggled with this bit.
The club knowing full well morsy wouldn't wear the armband.. could have changed captain ( again no need to disclose why if they didn't want to) and morsy couldn't have taken them to the cleaners.
That's the bullish way but was doable.
Or. They could have had a good chat with him and Sam being the nice guy you all say he is would have agreed with changing captain.
Either way there would be no taking the club to the cleaners... |
As Mark Twain once famously said
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
and with that, I truly hope I never get lulled into to debating with you again.
Goodnight | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:50 - Dec 2 with 1585 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:41 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
No need to be polite. I can take it.
So you've agreed he couldn't take the club to the cleaners for making a football decision.
So. Again as you've struggled with this bit.
The club knowing full well morsy wouldn't wear the armband.. could have changed captain ( again no need to disclose why if they didn't want to) and morsy couldn't have taken them to the cleaners.
That's the bullish way but was doable.
Or. They could have had a good chat with him and Sam being the nice guy you all say he is would have agreed with changing captain.
Either way there would be no taking the club to the cleaners... |
I wonder if they could come to an agreement with the Premier League for the vice captain to wear the armband, obviously not marked captain? Or Muric, so it is still visible on the pitch but not being worn by an outfield player. Presuming they would be happy to do so. | |
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