| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77724 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:36 - Dec 2 with 1394 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:33 - Dec 2 by sjg |
Morsy old chap, unless you feel you can support this initiative which is meant to be inclusive of all, we feel we need to give the captaincy to someone else, such is the importance of said initiative to us as a club.
Sounds fairly reasonable? |
Not in the slightest......
As you say - I quote - "Which is meant to be inclusive of all "
But not you Sammy, because it completely goes against your religious beliefs, so we certainly are not including all, but hey its your choice - Armband Captain, no armband no captaincy.
An absolute belter of a response... Well done |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:37 - Dec 2 with 1402 views | Mullet |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:33 - Dec 2 by orfordbuoy |
One of the news posters brought home the huge damage the club has made. The poster says Morsy's stance, regarding rejecting inclusion, has received in Egypt, praise. If this is travelling around the world this is a massive own goal for ITFC (and human rights) |
I also wonder if the abuse he’d receive from Egyptians played a factor - it’s a stark contrast with the pro Palestine stuff which has gone without comment in the past. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:39 - Dec 2 with 1372 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:36 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Not in the slightest......
As you say - I quote - "Which is meant to be inclusive of all "
But not you Sammy, because it completely goes against your religious beliefs, so we certainly are not including all, but hey its your choice - Armband Captain, no armband no captaincy.
An absolute belter of a response... Well done |
As other posters have stated, there have been Muslim captains that have worn them before, he has managed to find room in his religious beliefs to wear gambling sponsors. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:42 - Dec 2 with 1331 views | Jrm_72 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:29 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
So you think, there would be less fallout if the club had stripped Morsy of the captaincy for one game because of his religious beliefs.
Wow..... where have you been hiding.
Imagine the conversation, Morsy old chap, sorry but because you won't wear a rainbow armband you're not the captain today. We are going to pick somebody who isn't Muslim. You can have it back next weekend.
If that had entered the media, rightly or wrongly the fallout/hysteria would've been huge.
Unlike the vast majority, I am not taking sides - there's no definitive right or wrong, because like it or not there's two very distinctive sides to this.
The club are in a no win situation. Nobody wins.
I really cannot understand why people seem oblivious to this. |
Ok last one I'm biting on as wasted too much time trying to teach card tricks to dogs on here today.
'There's no definitive right or wrong'.
Yes there is, real easy:
- Homophobia is definitively wrong.
- You can be muslim and not be a homophobe, just the same as you can be muslim and support gambling and have a child out of a wedlock apparently. You can even be a muslim and be gay.
- Regardless of that, it doesnt matter, being muslim is not an acceptable excuse for bigotry. There isn't one.
By the club saying they support morsy, they are saying they support a homophobe. He shouldnt be captain at all, but definitely shouldnt have been for these two games.
Right, gonna try and leave this now. Thank you to the many great contributors and brave people in the community to speak out today. Given me a great opportunity for learning and growth | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:44 - Dec 2 with 1305 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:39 - Dec 2 by sjg |
As other posters have stated, there have been Muslim captains that have worn them before, he has managed to find room in his religious beliefs to wear gambling sponsors. |
and again....
I would imagine its a contractual obligation to wear the club kit, whether its sponsored by a popstar, a gambling company or the local pub. Funny enough, it a sports game, they are quite keen on a team wearing the same kit.
As far as I am aware, it is not a contractual obligation to wear an OPTIONAL armband that supports something against your personal/religious beliefs.
ITS NOT DIFFICULT | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:45 - Dec 2 with 1293 views | Bucklebury_blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 14:19 - Dec 2 by GlasgowBlue |
"our captain Sam Morsy, who has chosen not to wear the rainbow captain’s armband, due to his religious beliefs".
Can we please stop validating discriminatory religious beliefs that belong in the dark ages.Not matter which religion it is. |
Bit rich coming from a city where even the football is still based on religious bigotry rooted in the Middle Ages. Your view of Islam is irrelevant, just respect a man’s faith. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:45 - Dec 2 with 1292 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:44 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again....
I would imagine its a contractual obligation to wear the club kit, whether its sponsored by a popstar, a gambling company or the local pub. Funny enough, it a sports game, they are quite keen on a team wearing the same kit.
As far as I am aware, it is not a contractual obligation to wear an OPTIONAL armband that supports something against your personal/religious beliefs.
ITS NOT DIFFICULT |
That’s fine, give the armband to someone that can fulfil the captain’s duties as a representative of the club for a game or 2 | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 with 1265 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:45 - Dec 2 by sjg |
That’s fine, give the armband to someone that can fulfil the captain’s duties as a representative of the club for a game or 2 |
and again -
Going back to my point on Frimley's post -
If the club stripped a player of the Captaincy, purely because of his religious beliefs - it would kick off like no tomorrow.
They simply CANNOT do it for a variety of reasons. I would imagine employment lawyers would have an absolute field day. | | | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 with 1254 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:29 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
So you think, there would be less fallout if the club had stripped Morsy of the captaincy for one game because of his religious beliefs.
Wow..... where have you been hiding.
Imagine the conversation, Morsy old chap, sorry but because you won't wear a rainbow armband you're not the captain today. We are going to pick somebody who isn't Muslim. You can have it back next weekend.
If that had entered the media, rightly or wrongly the fallout/hysteria would've been huge.
Unlike the vast majority, I am not taking sides - there's no definitive right or wrong, because like it or not there's two very distinctive sides to this.
The club are in a no win situation. Nobody wins.
I really cannot understand why people seem oblivious to this. |
No I'd expect the following
Sam. We appreciate and respect your position, however we as a club do believe in the positive support our club captain can show this coming fixture on a cause which is important to not only the club but the community as a whole.
We are with your support going to ask... to represent the club as captain for this fixture as we feel its important that our values are visible for all to see. I'm sure you can appreciate that.
Sam.
Of course, thank you for respecting my beliefs and not forcing the issue, I respect the clubs wishes and fully support the idea of.. being captain.
After game fallout that you mention
Sam morsy statement
Firstly I'd like to thank the club for the respect they showed not only myself but to all practising Muslims, they appreciated my views, didn't force anything on me and the club were able to celebrate the event in the manner they wanted to. It's always an honour captaining this club and I look forward to captaining the side in the future. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:50 - Dec 2 with 1244 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again -
Going back to my point on Frimley's post -
If the club stripped a player of the Captaincy, purely because of his religious beliefs - it would kick off like no tomorrow.
They simply CANNOT do it for a variety of reasons. I would imagine employment lawyers would have an absolute field day. |
And again, other Muslim players have worn the armband and therefore it is not ‘purely because of his religious beliefs’. I also doubt very much that it is written in his contract that he is the club captain, so I don’t reckon employment lawyers could have a field day. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:51 - Dec 2 with 1220 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
No I'd expect the following
Sam. We appreciate and respect your position, however we as a club do believe in the positive support our club captain can show this coming fixture on a cause which is important to not only the club but the community as a whole.
We are with your support going to ask... to represent the club as captain for this fixture as we feel its important that our values are visible for all to see. I'm sure you can appreciate that.
Sam.
Of course, thank you for respecting my beliefs and not forcing the issue, I respect the clubs wishes and fully support the idea of.. being captain.
After game fallout that you mention
Sam morsy statement
Firstly I'd like to thank the club for the respect they showed not only myself but to all practising Muslims, they appreciated my views, didn't force anything on me and the club were able to celebrate the event in the manner they wanted to. It's always an honour captaining this club and I look forward to captaining the side in the future. |
You are something else.
You live in an absolute dream world, if you think it would play out like this.
But I love how you spell it out as if its Football Manager. Nice touch | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:52 - Dec 2 with 1212 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again -
Going back to my point on Frimley's post -
If the club stripped a player of the Captaincy, purely because of his religious beliefs - it would kick off like no tomorrow.
They simply CANNOT do it for a variety of reasons. I would imagine employment lawyers would have an absolute field day. |
Employment lawyers wtf are you on about.
He's a town player. Who was selected as a captain.
You can deselect a captain if he sneezed the wrong way.
It's entirely upto the manager who the captain is. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:52 - Dec 2 with 1211 views | Sharkey |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again -
Going back to my point on Frimley's post -
If the club stripped a player of the Captaincy, purely because of his religious beliefs - it would kick off like no tomorrow.
They simply CANNOT do it for a variety of reasons. I would imagine employment lawyers would have an absolute field day. |
I really doubt that. I mean a club could pass the captaincy to a player playing his 500th game or whatever, it’s not going to affect the real captain’s salary. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:55 - Dec 2 with 1177 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:50 - Dec 2 by sjg |
And again, other Muslim players have worn the armband and therefore it is not ‘purely because of his religious beliefs’. I also doubt very much that it is written in his contract that he is the club captain, so I don’t reckon employment lawyers could have a field day. |
Massive missing of the point here.
He will have been stripped of the captaincy because of his beliefs - NO OTHER REASON.
You need to look at some of the legal cases that have taken place because of race/beliefs and the like. There are hundreds of lawyers all over this country that specialise in this kind of thing.
Please don't forget to thumb down this.... | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:55 - Dec 2 with 1172 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:51 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
You are something else.
You live in an absolute dream world, if you think it would play out like this.
But I love how you spell it out as if its Football Manager. Nice touch |
I don't think it is dreamworld to respect Sam's beliefs whilst Sam respecting the clubs beliefs. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:56 - Dec 2 with 1163 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:52 - Dec 2 by Sharkey |
I really doubt that. I mean a club could pass the captaincy to a player playing his 500th game or whatever, it’s not going to affect the real captain’s salary. |
Its the REASON for doing it - not simply the act of doing it. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:56 - Dec 2 with 1157 views | Reus30 |
Honestly, it's not newsworthy at all.
I don't care, it's just another click/rage bait headline |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:57 - Dec 2 with 1154 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:55 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Massive missing of the point here.
He will have been stripped of the captaincy because of his beliefs - NO OTHER REASON.
You need to look at some of the legal cases that have taken place because of race/beliefs and the like. There are hundreds of lawyers all over this country that specialise in this kind of thing.
Please don't forget to thumb down this.... |
I haven’t even been downvoting your responses. I have on this one though | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:59 - Dec 2 with 1123 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:57 - Dec 2 by sjg |
I haven’t even been downvoting your responses. I have on this one though |
Anyway, tell me where I am wrong on my post.
That there wouldn't be massive issues, if the suggestion of changing captain went ahead for the reasons stated. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:59 - Dec 2 with 1120 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:55 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Massive missing of the point here.
He will have been stripped of the captaincy because of his beliefs - NO OTHER REASON.
You need to look at some of the legal cases that have taken place because of race/beliefs and the like. There are hundreds of lawyers all over this country that specialise in this kind of thing.
Please don't forget to thumb down this.... |
Which legal cases are you referring to where a captaincy has been passed from one football player to another.
Again. The captain can be who ever the manager wants it to be. You don't even need a reason. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:00 - Dec 2 with 1115 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:42 - Dec 2 by Jrm_72 |
Ok last one I'm biting on as wasted too much time trying to teach card tricks to dogs on here today.
'There's no definitive right or wrong'.
Yes there is, real easy:
- Homophobia is definitively wrong.
- You can be muslim and not be a homophobe, just the same as you can be muslim and support gambling and have a child out of a wedlock apparently. You can even be a muslim and be gay.
- Regardless of that, it doesnt matter, being muslim is not an acceptable excuse for bigotry. There isn't one.
By the club saying they support morsy, they are saying they support a homophobe. He shouldnt be captain at all, but definitely shouldnt have been for these two games.
Right, gonna try and leave this now. Thank you to the many great contributors and brave people in the community to speak out today. Given me a great opportunity for learning and growth |
I wouldn't say Morsy as an individual is homophobic, at least not without definitive proof beyond not wearing the armband. I do wish he had released a statement/spoken directly about his decision rather than the club doing it on his behalf. Though, in the back of my mind, something tells me he may have done so in the first year. I cannot find anything on it though; a Google search just covers this season. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:00 - Dec 2 with 1102 views | Churchman |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:39 - Dec 2 by sjg |
As other posters have stated, there have been Muslim captains that have worn them before, he has managed to find room in his religious beliefs to wear gambling sponsors. |
I understand there are many different versions of Islam as there are other religions. I don’t know enough about it or him to weigh what is important to Morsy and what isn’t. All I can say is that in over three years, he comes across as a dedicated and caring individual (just watch him with the mascots for example) and I’m not going to judge him.
Do I wish he’d worn it? Of course for all the reasons, including PointofBlue’s really excellent post, in this thread and what I believe in.
As for the club, they were damned whatever they did on this. Strip him of the captaincy and you don’t need a crystal ball to work out the headlines.
As an aside, why do they bother with armbands? They never used to and the ref seem to know who Mick Mills was. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:01 - Dec 2 with 1099 views | sjg |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:59 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Anyway, tell me where I am wrong on my post.
That there wouldn't be massive issues, if the suggestion of changing captain went ahead for the reasons stated. |
I don’t know what you think the damages would be? In cases of employment law, damages are generally based on loss of earnings - how do you quantify his loss from not being captain for 2 games? Do you think he would pursue a claim against a club which he clearly holds very close to his heart because he wasn’t captain for 2 games? | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:02 - Dec 2 with 1092 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:32 - Dec 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Overriding previous reservations to be openly proud about your true self? That’s one of the most powerful posts this year - massive respect from me. I hope the reaction has convinced you that you were right to post.
I’m not sure if I’m imagining it, but the pushback on here against Morsy’s stance seems stronger than it was last year. Maybe we are making progress after all. |
Yeah, I was battling them alone last December. I remember you posters that acted as apologists for Morsy's discriminatory act. But if we disregard the news' posters it appears progress has been made this year. Our world image appears to have taken a hit, mind [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 22:03]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:03 - Dec 2 with 1075 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:44 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again....
I would imagine its a contractual obligation to wear the club kit, whether its sponsored by a popstar, a gambling company or the local pub. Funny enough, it a sports game, they are quite keen on a team wearing the same kit.
As far as I am aware, it is not a contractual obligation to wear an OPTIONAL armband that supports something against your personal/religious beliefs.
ITS NOT DIFFICULT |
And again....
He could have retired or dropped to non league if he didn't want to wear betting logos on his shirt
He chose to wear them with ease for seasons despite his religious beliefs.
He couldn't however wear an armband for 90 minutes. | |
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