| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77743 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:00 - Dec 2 with 1779 views | PassionNotAnger |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:47 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
As Mark Twain once famously said
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
and with that, I truly hope I never get lulled into to debating with you again.
Goodnight |
As you now seem to have concluded your “debate”, personally I’d have called it a deflection but that’s not the point, I have an unsettling observation.
You have made numerous contributions on this thread to defend Morsy’s “rights” yet 3 different posters have shared their views and real experiences as gay supporters and how it has personally made them feel but you failed to acknowledge any of them, no upvotes, no empathy or any form of response.
For someone that clearly feels strongly about the subject that seems “odd”. Perhaps that tells its own story about you, perhaps it’s an oversight by you or maybe you are just using your “right” to ignore the feelings of those most impacted. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:11 - Dec 2 with 1697 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:23 - Dec 2 by tcblue |
Have we done "Morsy's faith didn't stop him wearing betting sponsor logos at Middlesbrough" yet? |
Yep that's been done about 3 pages ago |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:17 - Dec 2 with 1656 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:50 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I wonder if they could come to an agreement with the Premier League for the vice captain to wear the armband, obviously not marked captain? Or Muric, so it is still visible on the pitch but not being worn by an outfield player. Presuming they would be happy to do so. |
Good sensible idea would have kept everyone happy | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:20 - Dec 2 with 1649 views | N2_Blue |
Firstly 3 points couldn't be more welcome tomorrow night!!
Of course we need a win just to ensure we keep out season moving in the right direction but seems even more importnat with all this Morsy/armband stuff. Could be a really morela damgaing epidode all round coupled with a defeat.
Personally i find it quite sad how much is being blown up about it. Sure it would be great if he wore the armband but i also undertsnad why he deosn't.
I don't think he is a homophobe and thinks its a very strong and serious accusation to make. He has never said anything to indicate as such and it's all speculation and hearsay as to why he doesn't and what it means. People draw their own conclusions but I'm nto comfotable with people infering he is a homophobe for just taking a decision to not wear a symbol.
I don't see why he should be forced to wear it or have captaincy removed and he will still have my full support tomorrow night.
I've never worn a poppy in my life. I have various reasons for doing so but does not mean i do not recognirse and respect remberrance day and the efforts of all those that fought for our country.
Morsy not wearing the rainbow does not make him a homophobe. I think we need to be a bit more careful about what we;re saying for those that are making that accusation.
Do we really think Ipswich Town would be appointing a player as captain if there was really any indication that was the case. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:34 - Dec 2 with 1588 views | textbackup |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:44 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again....
I would imagine its a contractual obligation to wear the club kit, whether its sponsored by a popstar, a gambling company or the local pub. Funny enough, it a sports game, they are quite keen on a team wearing the same kit.
As far as I am aware, it is not a contractual obligation to wear an OPTIONAL armband that supports something against your personal/religious beliefs.
ITS NOT DIFFICULT |
So if his god and religion means that much to him, which it clearly does, he forgoes the money, and the career… to honour and respect his beliefs. Therefore terminating his contract with the club that have opted for a betting sponsorship.
I love SM. But he’s a massive hypocrite for these two situations IMO.
Edit. I don’t mean terminate his contract here for those that have read it in that way. I mean, of course, when he was at Boro [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 23:51]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:36 - Dec 2 with 1582 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:20 - Dec 2 by N2_Blue |
Firstly 3 points couldn't be more welcome tomorrow night!!
Of course we need a win just to ensure we keep out season moving in the right direction but seems even more importnat with all this Morsy/armband stuff. Could be a really morela damgaing epidode all round coupled with a defeat.
Personally i find it quite sad how much is being blown up about it. Sure it would be great if he wore the armband but i also undertsnad why he deosn't.
I don't think he is a homophobe and thinks its a very strong and serious accusation to make. He has never said anything to indicate as such and it's all speculation and hearsay as to why he doesn't and what it means. People draw their own conclusions but I'm nto comfotable with people infering he is a homophobe for just taking a decision to not wear a symbol.
I don't see why he should be forced to wear it or have captaincy removed and he will still have my full support tomorrow night.
I've never worn a poppy in my life. I have various reasons for doing so but does not mean i do not recognirse and respect remberrance day and the efforts of all those that fought for our country.
Morsy not wearing the rainbow does not make him a homophobe. I think we need to be a bit more careful about what we;re saying for those that are making that accusation.
Do we really think Ipswich Town would be appointing a player as captain if there was really any indication that was the case. |
"People draw their own conclusions but I'm nto comfotable with people infering he is a homophobe for just taking a decision to not wear a symbol."
Genuine question about this..
The statement and his refusal is because of his beliefs yes?
I'm assuming the belief isn't that it's wrong to wear an armband as he wears one every game.
So if its not that. And the answer to what does he not believe in.. .. doesn't that automatically put him into that category by default?
And this is a genuine question as I would like to know if I'm understanding it correctly. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 23:37]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:48 - Dec 2 with 1525 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:20 - Dec 2 by N2_Blue |
Firstly 3 points couldn't be more welcome tomorrow night!!
Of course we need a win just to ensure we keep out season moving in the right direction but seems even more importnat with all this Morsy/armband stuff. Could be a really morela damgaing epidode all round coupled with a defeat.
Personally i find it quite sad how much is being blown up about it. Sure it would be great if he wore the armband but i also undertsnad why he deosn't.
I don't think he is a homophobe and thinks its a very strong and serious accusation to make. He has never said anything to indicate as such and it's all speculation and hearsay as to why he doesn't and what it means. People draw their own conclusions but I'm nto comfotable with people infering he is a homophobe for just taking a decision to not wear a symbol.
I don't see why he should be forced to wear it or have captaincy removed and he will still have my full support tomorrow night.
I've never worn a poppy in my life. I have various reasons for doing so but does not mean i do not recognirse and respect remberrance day and the efforts of all those that fought for our country.
Morsy not wearing the rainbow does not make him a homophobe. I think we need to be a bit more careful about what we;re saying for those that are making that accusation.
Do we really think Ipswich Town would be appointing a player as captain if there was really any indication that was the case. |
if he's not a homophobe - which you are so keen to deny - why does he make the decision not to support gay inclusion? what other reason could there be?
Your poppy example is poor because you are not representing an institution that is viewed worldwide.
But please, go ahead, provide reasons why Morsy make a stand against inclusivity. Hiding behind his religion is not a reason. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:50 - Dec 2 with 1507 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 22:33 - Dec 2 by urbanpenguin |
I haven't got the time or energy to read the 11 pages of this thread, so sorry if this is a repeat of things that have been stated or argued against.
As a gay fan I am beyond disappointed. If there had have been something like the rainbow campaign when I was a teenager I may not have been suicidal or doubting my identity. Maybe I still would have, maybe not, I have no way of knowing.
but I do know that to wear a silly rainbow is a tiny gesture for a full-grown man to do, yet it could have a huge impact for other teenagers - or adults - who are part of this club and its fan base.
I am not going to get into the discussion/argument around religion and protected beliefs, other than to say that the rainbow campaign is not about "beliefs" or being "pro gay", it is about human rights and equality, and i can only assume that by not wearing the armband every other captain managed to that he personally believes me and other LGBTQ+ people to not be equal, to not be worthy of those rights, and to be less welcome in the club he is captain of. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 22:51]
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Sorry to disagree but I do not believe you should infer that at all on the basis of Morsy not wearing an arm band. Furthermore it is entirely possible that a captain or more with loathsome views on inclusivity may have done so. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:52 - Dec 2 with 1492 views | N2_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:48 - Dec 2 by orfordbuoy |
if he's not a homophobe - which you are so keen to deny - why does he make the decision not to support gay inclusion? what other reason could there be?
Your poppy example is poor because you are not representing an institution that is viewed worldwide.
But please, go ahead, provide reasons why Morsy make a stand against inclusivity. Hiding behind his religion is not a reason. |
I don't know because i' m not Sam Morsy. I'm not keen to deny anything, i don't know why he makes the decision and niether do you.
But i'm uncomfortable with anyone labeling somone a homophobe when there is no direct evidence that he is. Not wearing the armband does not make you a homophobe. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:55 - Dec 2 with 1476 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:49 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I apologise because I was a bit blunt with the final paragraph without understanding the history. It came across as casting asperions on people which I didn't intend to do, so I am sorry about that. And thank you for your post.
I'm not sure if ironic is the right word but we have a nine page thread disussing this (on top of the one closed). However, if Morsy had worn the armband, there would probably be no debate and no acknowledgement. It would be one of the those things 'seen' but not talked about, yet the whole point of the armband is to increase visibility and discussion. So there may be a viable point about whether it's doing it's job, as the reason this is taking place is because Morsy decided not to wear it. |
12 pages in 21 hours could be a record if anyone's keeping tabs!
Open discussion promoting understanding = good thing 👍
Hope to hear PR as usual roaring on all our players tomorrow  |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:58 - Dec 2 with 1471 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:52 - Dec 2 by N2_Blue |
I don't know because i' m not Sam Morsy. I'm not keen to deny anything, i don't know why he makes the decision and niether do you.
But i'm uncomfortable with anyone labeling somone a homophobe when there is no direct evidence that he is. Not wearing the armband does not make you a homophobe. |
there must be a reason why he has created such a sh¬¬storm across the nation and beyond. He must feel very strongly against equal rights. Would you call this fundamentalism? | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:01 - Dec 3 with 1444 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:52 - Dec 2 by N2_Blue |
I don't know because i' m not Sam Morsy. I'm not keen to deny anything, i don't know why he makes the decision and niether do you.
But i'm uncomfortable with anyone labeling somone a homophobe when there is no direct evidence that he is. Not wearing the armband does not make you a homophobe. |
I'm not Sam Morsy either but one possible line of thought might be to respect someone's right to make choices, bare them no malice but also due to religion (yes, I know they're all nonsense but) believe that this is not God's plan for said individual despite also fully supporting their right to play and support the game. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:04 - Dec 3 with 1432 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:01 - Dec 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I'm not Sam Morsy either but one possible line of thought might be to respect someone's right to make choices, bare them no malice but also due to religion (yes, I know they're all nonsense but) believe that this is not God's plan for said individual despite also fully supporting their right to play and support the game. |
so to be tolerant to the intolerant. Right. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:06 - Dec 3 with 1414 views | N2_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:36 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
"People draw their own conclusions but I'm nto comfotable with people infering he is a homophobe for just taking a decision to not wear a symbol."
Genuine question about this..
The statement and his refusal is because of his beliefs yes?
I'm assuming the belief isn't that it's wrong to wear an armband as he wears one every game.
So if its not that. And the answer to what does he not believe in.. .. doesn't that automatically put him into that category by default?
And this is a genuine question as I would like to know if I'm understanding it correctly. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 23:37]
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'assuming'
ie. you or anyone commenting on this thread doesn't actualy know. There is a whole lot of asusmption going on.
Maybe some of the assumptions are correct, maybe not but just a lot of what is being thrown at Morsy by some doesn't sit comfortably with me perosnally.
As for your question, the refusal is because of his beliefs, i don't know, because I don't know Sam Morsy.
And even if it is, it still doesn't make him a homophobe. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:33]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:07 - Dec 3 with 1409 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:06 - Dec 3 by N2_Blue |
'assuming'
ie. you or anyone commenting on this thread doesn't actualy know. There is a whole lot of asusmption going on.
Maybe some of the assumptions are correct, maybe not but just a lot of what is being thrown at Morsy by some doesn't sit comfortably with me perosnally.
As for your question, the refusal is because of his beliefs, i don't know, because I don't know Sam Morsy.
And even if it is, it still doesn't make him a homophobe. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:33]
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what other reason could there be for such discrimination? | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:11 - Dec 3 with 1375 views | reusersfreekicks |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:48 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
and again -
Going back to my point on Frimley's post -
If the club stripped a player of the Captaincy, purely because of his religious beliefs - it would kick off like no tomorrow.
They simply CANNOT do it for a variety of reasons. I would imagine employment lawyers would have an absolute field day. |
Nonsense beyond belief |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:11 - Dec 3 with 1373 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:04 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy |
so to be tolerant to the intolerant. Right. |
It's pretty easy to just be tolerant of people we don't disagree with, though. In fact, it's barely even being tolerant at all, is it, if we are being honest?
Dictionary definition of tolerant:
"Showing willingness to allow the existence of opinions or behaviour that one does not necessarily agree with."
Perhaps the word is being misunderstood and misapplied by some on here, as they are not willing to allow Sam to exist and behave as he wishes to, especially in the absence of any clear malice on his part, as they don't appreciate what it is like to have grown up as a Muslim. And also others who cannot understand why those in the LGBT community feel intimidated at matches, and they shouldn't, when clearly they haven't lived through that experience.
Using a monochrome lens through which to view a very colourful and nuanced world is rather a shame and also, sadly, dangerous, when the vast majority of people wish no harm on others, even if their views will clash with said people.. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:38]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:12 - Dec 3 with 1371 views | StNeotsBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:01 - Dec 3 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I'm not Sam Morsy either but one possible line of thought might be to respect someone's right to make choices, bare them no malice but also due to religion (yes, I know they're all nonsense but) believe that this is not God's plan for said individual despite also fully supporting their right to play and support the game. |
I'm not Sam Morsy either. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:13 - Dec 3 with 1367 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 23:48 - Dec 2 by orfordbuoy |
if he's not a homophobe - which you are so keen to deny - why does he make the decision not to support gay inclusion? what other reason could there be?
Your poppy example is poor because you are not representing an institution that is viewed worldwide.
But please, go ahead, provide reasons why Morsy make a stand against inclusivity. Hiding behind his religion is not a reason. |
As far as I'm aware, Morsy has been brought up since birth immersed in the Muslim faith. You can't expect people to just ditch the *theory* of one of their faith's tenets for a symbolic public act. I'm sure that *in practice*, Morsy is/would be just as welcoming to any gay players he encounters at the club as anyone else, otherwise the club wouldn't have allowed him to remain captain.
Re the gambling logos v. any other faith-related no-no, I'm no expert on religion, but as a couple of people pointed out earlier in the thread, there are different forms of the Muslim faith & the importance attached to the various tenets of it may vary. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:19 - Dec 3 with 1328 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:13 - Dec 3 by Ryorry |
As far as I'm aware, Morsy has been brought up since birth immersed in the Muslim faith. You can't expect people to just ditch the *theory* of one of their faith's tenets for a symbolic public act. I'm sure that *in practice*, Morsy is/would be just as welcoming to any gay players he encounters at the club as anyone else, otherwise the club wouldn't have allowed him to remain captain.
Re the gambling logos v. any other faith-related no-no, I'm no expert on religion, but as a couple of people pointed out earlier in the thread, there are different forms of the Muslim faith & the importance attached to the various tenets of it may vary. |
using suppositions to defend discrimination.
Nice. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:20 - Dec 3 with 1325 views | N2_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:07 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy |
what other reason could there be for such discrimination? |
Not wearing the armband is not discrimination.
Maybe he is acceptong of homosexuals but doesn't want to be seen to publically support it because he is conflcited by his religion. Why should he neeed to, he has the right not to. Its not hurting anyone, it's his right. Maybe he is a very private person. Yes it would be better if he did as representative of Ipswich Town but he isn't doing anything wrong.
So whilst he could be accepting of homosexuals and at odds with his own religion he chooses to deal with that privately in his own way i.e. be totally civil, frienldy, supportive and accepting of any homsexuals he associates with on a personal level without having to have a more public show of support forced on him.
Does a person also need to explicitly show support of homosexuality? Not publically showing support and being a homphobe and not the same thing. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:24]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:22 - Dec 3 with 1317 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:20 - Dec 3 by N2_Blue |
Not wearing the armband is not discrimination.
Maybe he is acceptong of homosexuals but doesn't want to be seen to publically support it because he is conflcited by his religion. Why should he neeed to, he has the right not to. Its not hurting anyone, it's his right. Maybe he is a very private person. Yes it would be better if he did as representative of Ipswich Town but he isn't doing anything wrong.
So whilst he could be accepting of homosexuals and at odds with his own religion he chooses to deal with that privately in his own way i.e. be totally civil, frienldy, supportive and accepting of any homsexuals he associates with on a personal level without having to have a more public show of support forced on him.
Does a person also need to explicitly show support of homosexuality? Not publically showing support and being a homphobe and not the same thing. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:24]
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'Its not hurting anyone'
You really couldn't be more wrong. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:29 - Dec 3 with 1276 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:19 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy |
using suppositions to defend discrimination.
Nice. |
I am not "defending discrimination", there's about as much chance of me doing that as there is of me scoring tonight's winning goal.
I thought I was exploring, with yourself and others, the background to Morsy's decision. Of course there's supposition, since as several others have now pointed out, none of us are actually Morsy, so we don''t actually know the facts. Sorry you can't see the nuance. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:31 - Dec 3 with 1265 views | N2_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:22 - Dec 3 by orfordbuoy |
'Its not hurting anyone'
You really couldn't be more wrong. |
well if members of the gay community feel hurt that is a shame, and i accept that, but it is unfortunate.
I'm sure that is not Sam's intention.
I can't speak for those individuals who are hurt, and i have seen the emotive messages on this thread from some of our own supporters, but all i say to them is i know its sad and confusing not to have the leader of your football team not openly support your cause, but please don't make assumptions without actually knowing.
Perhaps if you feel that strongly and hurt write a personal letter direct to Sam and see if it perhaps you get a repsonse in private that sheds more light on his stance. [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 0:37]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:34 - Dec 3 with 1249 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 00:29 - Dec 3 by Ryorry |
I am not "defending discrimination", there's about as much chance of me doing that as there is of me scoring tonight's winning goal.
I thought I was exploring, with yourself and others, the background to Morsy's decision. Of course there's supposition, since as several others have now pointed out, none of us are actually Morsy, so we don''t actually know the facts. Sorry you can't see the nuance. |
where's the nuance in supporting inclusion human rights, or not?
You did make spurious suppositions to defend his decision to boycott inclusion. | | | |
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