| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 81757 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:34 - Dec 2 with 1640 views | SuperBlue1998 |
I'm a long time observer on here but feel I have to post something on this subject. As a gay fan who follows Town home and away I am really saddened by the reaction to this from (it seems) many fans - more so the reaction than the act if I'm honest.
Many seem to be greeting this as a brave thing to do by Morsy. I personally change my behaviour vis a vis Ipswich Town because I'm gay - I would not attend a game with a partner (at least not openly) for instance. I'd hoped one day to be able to, but that seems a long way off now after seeing the reaction to this. Sadly I'm going to feel slightly more uncomfortable at PR tomorrow night than I had done before.
I appreciate the response from lots of posters has been even handed and empathetic. Unfortunately the framing of this as Morsy standing up for his beliefs and oppostion to him doing so as equally intolerant etc does not amount to this. These are not comparable things. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:36 - Dec 2 with 1603 views | Mullet |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:16 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Nice you chose the forced option rather than expected. Fits the narrative much better.
(in answer to Mullet) [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 19:27]
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Well that was the word you used. Why are you getting upset about it?
People being expected to kneel is one thing but you said forced, who was it and when? Seems a fairly easy answer to give. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:36 - Dec 2 with 1603 views | pointofblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:17 - Dec 2 by J2BLUE |
Respect and apologies if my posts have come across as trying to shut down the debate. That was not my intention. I have been very critical of the OP because I felt like he was repeatedly stirring the pot and disappearing which combined with a previous post of his made me strongly believe he was just stirring.
Frankly, I should know better than to assume anyone's circumstances and in the words of a famous Town fan I feel a bit of a bellend.
Apologies again to you and apologies to chico as well.
I will wind my neck in unless I have anything constructive to add. |
Please don't feel a bit of bellend. I appreciate there are historical reasons why people may react in certain ways towards posts, because of who wrote them. It's easy to say "play the ball, not the man" regarding them but a lot has gone on on here, completely unrelated to this specific topic and, as with everything in life, previous dicussions will have an impact on replies.
Thank you and to everyone who has posted for your kind words and up votes. I don't particularly feel brave or strong. I'm just me. I'm not sure why this year has affected me more than previous ones when it comes to this subject, as it has been raised as an issue before. Maybe because I am coming terms with who I am, which has been a very slow and gradual process.
And, chicoazul, I can reassure you no one is going to approach me about soft furnishings, even if I do open up. My (lack of) knowledge about interior design is already well known.  But thank you to you and everyone else again. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:36 - Dec 2 with 1602 views | Jrm_72 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:19 - Dec 2 by lazyblue |
All I care about is what our superb captain does on the pitch and he has been outstanding the last 3 seasons. |
"ALL I care about"?!
"Yeah mate, I dont give a stuff baht dem gays, so long as Sam is well ard and kicks a ball real good I'm kushti"
The answer to anyone asking if our society has evolved beyond awareness campaigns like the one we are in... | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:38 - Dec 2 with 1567 views | football |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:30 - Dec 2 by FrimleyBlue |
He has worn football shirts with betting logos on them tho J2. If he's that set about his religious beliefs then he wouldn't wear the kits. Of course that would harm his ability to play for certain teams but you either have strong religious beliefs or you're flexible with them.
I think it's entirely upto him what he does. As he has done but I do think for that game he should not be captain. Or even tbh don't even include him in the side if he doesn't feel he can represent the club in the manager that all other players managed to. |
Why? It is football not politics. Does he perform on the pitch with the ball at is feet? Does he command the team and offer leadership on the field? To me, it's a yes on both and therefore he is captain. Anything personal is his view and his only - not for us to judge but surely the club are happy [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 5:35]
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:39 - Dec 2 with 1549 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:15 - Dec 2 by grow_our_own |
Problem with criticising Morsy is that we don't know what he objects to. If he's criticising LGB, then those rights are absolute and inalienable. Religion or not, that's homophobic and oppressing a minority whose rights harm nobody. But many women think absolute trans rights are misogynist. Many gay people think absolute trans rights are homophobic. Many parents think trans medication harms children. Many female sports people object to competing against trans women.
Stonewall rightly gained huge respect from transforming British attitudes to gay people. So much that the liberal left jumped on board when they threw the T into LGB. The right-on view is to also feel it's inalienable for trans women, who have the same propensity for sexual violence as men, to have absolute rights to women's spaces. Until very recently British children were given damaging medicine in the form of puberty blockers on the NHS. Gay people are pressured to believe that they aren't gay at all, and instead they should have life-changing surgery to change gender. Many have come out and said they regret doing so. Lesbians are supposed to tolerate dating apps allowing people with penises on them.
I'm all for trans rights right up to the point where it harms others. I'm all for pronouns, using their preferred gender name, etc. They have the right to be treated as their preferred gender in most, but not all circumstances. LGBT, should be more like LGBt.
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others." - John Stewart Mill |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:40 - Dec 2 with 1546 views | Leaky |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:19 - Dec 2 by lazyblue |
All I care about is what our superb captain does on the pitch and he has been outstanding the last 3 seasons. |
This 100% |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:41 - Dec 2 with 1530 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:30 - Dec 2 by gringoblue |
To be clear - I couldn't care less what you think. |
I can assure you that the feeling is more than mutual
However, its nice that you felt compelled to reply to me
So clearly it does bother you. |  | | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:46 - Dec 2 with 1466 views | FrimleyBlue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:38 - Dec 2 by football |
Why? It is football not politics. Does he perform on the pitch with the ball at is feet? Does he command the team and offer leadership on the field? To me, it's a yes on both and therefore he is captain. Anything personal is his view and his only - not for us to judge but surely the club are happy [Post edited 3 Dec 2024 5:35]
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Its the biggest sport globally. Biggest league.
Thousands of fans sing his name. Thousands of kids look to their club captains as idols.
No football isn't politics but it, like many other sports can help play a part in making positive changes in the world.
Sam is entitled to do what he wants..but the club should have dealt with it before the game and correctly. Have a captain who would wear the armband with pride and as a sign that itfc are a club represented by a captain who wants all supporters to feel welcome. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:47 - Dec 2 with 1463 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:03 - Dec 2 by itfcjoe |
Come on, like your poppy example yesterday you are mistaking what you think is ‘abstaining’ to being against something |
No. If you go out of your way to do something bad (i.e. say something hateful or discriminatory) that would be being against something. If you do something positive (i.e. wear rainbow laces or an armband) you are for something. If you do nothing/don't take part, you are abstaining.
The dictionary definition is literally: "to choose not to do or have something : to refrain deliberately".
I don't know why we need to split hairs on this, I've said I think it's wrong whatever words you want to describe it with. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:51 - Dec 2 with 1410 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:36 - Dec 2 by Mullet |
Well that was the word you used. Why are you getting upset about it?
People being expected to kneel is one thing but you said forced, who was it and when? Seems a fairly easy answer to give. |
Ah Mullet, the man who's never wrong - Unlike you to react like this being such an upstanding member of the TWTD community.
I used two words - one was expected, the other was forced.
Two different words, two different meanings - I also used various examples, Poppy, The Knee and the armband - However, you leapt on the two that suited the dig you wanted to have at me.
Take from my comments what you want - you always do anyway. | | | |
| Do you realise that.... on 19:51 - Dec 2 with 1401 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Do you realise that.... on 19:06 - Dec 2 by Bloots |
....you don't have to always make a comment?
You certainly did try and close the conversation down, you certainly accused other posters of trolling and you are certainly wrong about Morsy being "inactive" over this.
Sometimes less is more.
Try it. |
I wanted to show pointofblue my support and explain myself. I'll shut up now. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:53 - Dec 2 with 1385 views | Ryorry |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:34 - Dec 2 by SuperBlue1998 |
I'm a long time observer on here but feel I have to post something on this subject. As a gay fan who follows Town home and away I am really saddened by the reaction to this from (it seems) many fans - more so the reaction than the act if I'm honest.
Many seem to be greeting this as a brave thing to do by Morsy. I personally change my behaviour vis a vis Ipswich Town because I'm gay - I would not attend a game with a partner (at least not openly) for instance. I'd hoped one day to be able to, but that seems a long way off now after seeing the reaction to this. Sadly I'm going to feel slightly more uncomfortable at PR tomorrow night than I had done before.
I appreciate the response from lots of posters has been even handed and empathetic. Unfortunately the framing of this as Morsy standing up for his beliefs and oppostion to him doing so as equally intolerant etc does not amount to this. These are not comparable things. |
"I personally change my behaviour vis a vis Ipswich Town because I'm gay - I would not attend a game with a partner (at least not openly) for instance. I'd hoped one day to be able to, but that seems a long way off now after seeing the reaction to this. Sadly I'm going to feel slightly more uncomfortable at PR tomorrow night than I had done before."
Really sorry to hear that, and hope my point re the religious indoctrination/unshakeability of beliefs for some hasn't reinforced your view. I hope you can maybe take away a more positive feeling from the great reception pointofblue's excellent posts received? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:54 - Dec 2 with 1382 views | Jrm_72 |
Honestly one more person saying 'its football not politics' today seriously...
Human decency is not politics, its the bare minimum
The level of ignorance and bigotry this topic has unearthed is frightening | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:56 - Dec 2 with 1352 views | Mullet |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:51 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
Ah Mullet, the man who's never wrong - Unlike you to react like this being such an upstanding member of the TWTD community.
I used two words - one was expected, the other was forced.
Two different words, two different meanings - I also used various examples, Poppy, The Knee and the armband - However, you leapt on the two that suited the dig you wanted to have at me.
Take from my comments what you want - you always do anyway. |
Why are you being so aggressive/uppity? It was forced that was so interesting in the thread, and now you can’t/ won’t answer.
What was it you were talking about? | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:58 - Dec 2 with 1332 views | Crow77 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 16:56 - Dec 2 by orfordbuoy |
..... that he does not support gay rights? That reflects directly on the club and us - the supporters. |
This is a free country and it's up to him he hasn't said anything bad against them he's just not jumping up and down surporting them he's doing what he does every other game | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:01 - Dec 2 with 1302 views | MK1 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:34 - Dec 2 by SuperBlue1998 |
I'm a long time observer on here but feel I have to post something on this subject. As a gay fan who follows Town home and away I am really saddened by the reaction to this from (it seems) many fans - more so the reaction than the act if I'm honest.
Many seem to be greeting this as a brave thing to do by Morsy. I personally change my behaviour vis a vis Ipswich Town because I'm gay - I would not attend a game with a partner (at least not openly) for instance. I'd hoped one day to be able to, but that seems a long way off now after seeing the reaction to this. Sadly I'm going to feel slightly more uncomfortable at PR tomorrow night than I had done before.
I appreciate the response from lots of posters has been even handed and empathetic. Unfortunately the framing of this as Morsy standing up for his beliefs and oppostion to him doing so as equally intolerant etc does not amount to this. These are not comparable things. |
I don't think anybody who has posted comes across as homophobic, just saying that someone has the right to support or not a cause. You should feel 100% safe in PR. I have been going for many, many, many years and I haven't ever witnessed any homophobic behaviour. Not saying it isn't there at all, but I think PR is as friendly a ground as you can visit. Be who you are and don't buckle to anyone. (I am sure that is easier said than done, but try your hardest just to be you) |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:02 - Dec 2 with 1275 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:56 - Dec 2 by Mullet |
Why are you being so aggressive/uppity? It was forced that was so interesting in the thread, and now you can’t/ won’t answer.
What was it you were talking about? |
I will repeat, you take whatever you want from my comments. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:02 - Dec 2 with 1272 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 17:33 - Dec 2 by pointofblue |
I'm a member of the community who has only revealed that to be the case to one person - my best mate. I have told no one else. This is the first time I've said it on here. I don't know right now if I'll edit this or close before posting. If you're reading this it's because I have somehow held my nerve.
The reason why I am so loathed to reveal my true self is the way people treat the LGBTQIA+ community. There is still prevalent homophobic abuse, there is still a greater risk of attack for something which happened whilst growing in the womb. When speaking about the community within the family, the belief has been they'd prefer it to be kept quiet, not revealed, covered up. Heterosexual relationships? No issue at all. Promote them.
I am certain that Morsy wouldn't join in the attacks but his refusal to wear an armband feels like he believes those in the community have almost brought every piece of abuse, every violent attack, on ourselves as sinners. We are wrong, and we have done/are doing wrong. Although they may not say it, or post a reply, some will think the same on here.
This is a safer country than most for the community but there is still a lot of work to do. And valuing dogma which is thousands of years old, dictated by men within that period to suit their agenda, above those in community - especially when, as someone else indicated, most who follow a religion tend to pick and chose which criteria people should abide by, and which can be dismissed - does leave me uncomfortable and feeling like a lesser person. Something I have struggled to shift since realising who I am.
And to those trying to shut down the debate, and/or saying this thread is simply 'trolling' because it is repeated each year, come across, even though I'm sure for with most it is unitentional, as Morsy and Town's success with him in the team is far more important than equality, and those in the community should be happy being seen as lesser being simply for the sake of the club's fortunes. |
Upper given although I'm not entirely convinced about the inferences made in the very last bit....maybe, maybe not. |  |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:03 - Dec 2 with 1258 views | Vegtablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:15 - Dec 2 by grow_our_own |
Problem with criticising Morsy is that we don't know what he objects to. If he's criticising LGB, then those rights are absolute and inalienable. Religion or not, that's homophobic and oppressing a minority whose rights harm nobody. But many women think absolute trans rights are misogynist. Many gay people think absolute trans rights are homophobic. Many parents think trans medication harms children. Many female sports people object to competing against trans women.
Stonewall rightly gained huge respect from transforming British attitudes to gay people. So much that the liberal left jumped on board when they threw the T into LGB. The right-on view is to also feel it's inalienable for trans women, who have the same propensity for sexual violence as men, to have absolute rights to women's spaces. Until very recently British children were given damaging medicine in the form of puberty blockers on the NHS. Gay people are pressured to believe that they aren't gay at all, and instead they should have life-changing surgery to change gender. Many have come out and said they regret doing so. Lesbians are supposed to tolerate dating apps allowing people with penises on them.
I'm all for trans rights right up to the point where it harms others. I'm all for pronouns, using their preferred gender name, etc. They have the right to be treated as their preferred gender in most, but not all circumstances. LGBT, should be more like LGBt.
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others." - John Stewart Mill |
The Rainbow Laces campaign has a less dizzying remit than some of the hotly debated topics you address in your post, though. It's about promoting inclusion: get involved in this great sport if you want to because you are welcome. Morsy doesn't want to support that message, real shame. Wearing the armband is a privilege, not a right (I don't imply anyone thinks it is because that would be mad, but it feels worth restating). The club is comfortable for his stance to be the most visible, visual representation of their stance on this important message, bigger shame. I watched the Forest game on TV; the commentators highlighted the campaign before KO and how captains would be wearing rainbow armbands to show clubs' united support across the league, then cue Morsy's dress choice. We weren't called out for not participating admittedly, so perhaps only eagle-eyed neutrals noticed, but most Town fans would have known and seen - disappointing. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:04 - Dec 2 with 1243 views | Mullet |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:02 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
I will repeat, you take whatever you want from my comments. |
Well sure, but you’re now just saying something meaningless after a really weird reaction. Did you just make it up? You could’ve just said that instead of being personal, odd and uppity about something you said. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:05 - Dec 2 with 1234 views | orfordbuoy |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 19:58 - Dec 2 by Crow77 |
This is a free country and it's up to him he hasn't said anything bad against them he's just not jumping up and down surporting them he's doing what he does every other game |
Morsy doesn't need to 'jump up and down surporting them'. But as the top ranking player on the field for ITFC he could - for just one day in the year - shows he, like the other 19 captains, supports inclusion. But I guess all those countless male players that have found it comfortable to 'come out' demonstrates his support is not needed. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:07 - Dec 2 with 1201 views | waveneyblue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:04 - Dec 2 by Mullet |
Well sure, but you’re now just saying something meaningless after a really weird reaction. Did you just make it up? You could’ve just said that instead of being personal, odd and uppity about something you said. |
You still going on? | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:10 - Dec 2 with 1165 views | Mullet |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:07 - Dec 2 by waveneyblue |
You still going on? |
Well, you seem to keep replying and saying nothing after trying to act up.
If you lied you can just say so, it’d explain your behaviour at least. | |
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| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:14 - Dec 2 with 1119 views | rkc123 |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 15:02 - Dec 2 by J2BLUE |
I'm not telling you anything. I'm asking why you are trolling and you can't answer.
You will make the same thread next year. Perhaps we should dig out the thread where you defend Christianity as our laws are based on it. |
Just because you have said all you want on the subject it doesn't make it trolling, you could just not engage with this one. I think given the post has been made the day that the club statement has been made on Morsy's decision and it has made national news it is a relevant time to discuss it. Frankly I think it is disappointing the other thread was locked and forced another thread, this is a big issue, he is the only captain in the league that isn't wearing the armband, meaning we are the only club not showing we support the message that lgbtqia+ people are welcome at the club and in the sport, as fans we should be able to support the club while not supporting all of their actions.
Edit - Just saw your later post on the subject, I should have read ahead before posting myself. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 20:23]
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