| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 21:32 - Apr 10 with 1856 views | StokieBlue |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 17:37 - Apr 10 by itfcsuth |
He was an England u21 international, as well playing through multiple age groups, as well as being a top young talent out of a top academy - so whilst not at the heights he’s at now, I would imagine the club thought his ceiling was very very high.
It’s poor business, not matter what way you want to spin it. |
I would imagine plenty of players have similar relegation clauses in their contracts.
You can't force a player to sign a contract, they have to be happy with it as well. Perhaps we should have kidnapped his cat until he signed a contract with a 100m relegation release clause.
Some things are not entirely in the clubs control.
SB |  | |  |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 21:36 - Apr 10 with 1814 views | Trequartista |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 17:24 - Apr 10 by Swailsey |
BBC reporting it as true, with sources from Ipswich confirming. Nick in the know again! |
So £40m is bandied about, Ashton says figures quoted are not correct and says we are very, very well protected implying its more when it turns out to be £30m. He also said it would be breach of contract to reveal any clauses and now we're confirming £30m relegation release clause??? |  |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:26 - Apr 10 with 1686 views | itfcsuth |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 17:56 - Apr 10 by Herbivore |
He'd had decent but not exceptional loan spells in the Championship and at 21, City didn't see him kicking on to make it there. So he was far from being the player he is now and certainly wasn't approaching your description of him as some hot property number 9. There's a reason us and Saints were the two sides in for him. It's disappointing and frustrating that we won't get his full market value but it's pure hindsight bias to attribute that to really poor business on our part rather than it being just how circumstances have played out. |
He definitely was a hot prospect, his youth career at Man City was fantastic, his goal return was phenomenal - so indeed, he was approaching my description of him.
As I say, you can dress it up whichever way you like, we’ve ended up a marginal profit on what really should be maximum profit - to my definition, that is really poor business.
Needless to go back and forth when we are so far apart with our opinion on it. |  | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:32 - Apr 10 with 1665 views | itfcsuth |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 21:08 - Apr 10 by berkstractorboy |
Would you consider not signing him at all to be poorer business?
Very good chance we had no negotiation in the deal based on other interest so take him on the terms offered or not all at.
It's only poor business if once given all the facts we failed to negotiate better terms on release clauses etc if the opportunity was there. Rather than try to be negative about it all why not choose to believe just maybe the club did everything it could to get the best deal and actually making a 100% profit in a year it's not actually a 'stinking' piece of business. |
Exposing yourself to leaving £30m/£40m of profit on the table is a stinking deal though. | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:49 - Apr 10 with 1651 views | itfcsuth |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 17:38 - Apr 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
So you'd rather we let him go to Southampton then? |
If the deal isn’t the best for the club, then of course you move on to alternative targets. | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:51 - Apr 10 with 1647 views | berkstractorboy |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:32 - Apr 10 by itfcsuth |
Exposing yourself to leaving £30m/£40m of profit on the table is a stinking deal though. |
Answer the question please.
Is it poorer to have signed the deal we have and only get £30M and 100% profit or to have not signed him at all due to it being a stinking deal and we get zero profit? That's without the very likely chance we would be finishing lower than we will and the prize money we get from finishing 18th rather than 20th, that I would argue Delap has a disproportionate hand in helping us achieve.
You seem to value Delap at £60M/£70M whereas experts I trust a little more don't put the same value on him currently based on one season in the top flight. So your value of profit left on the table is just your opinion and very likely inflated. [Post edited 11 Apr 0:50]
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 06:35 - Apr 11 with 1527 views | itfcsuth |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:51 - Apr 10 by berkstractorboy |
Answer the question please.
Is it poorer to have signed the deal we have and only get £30M and 100% profit or to have not signed him at all due to it being a stinking deal and we get zero profit? That's without the very likely chance we would be finishing lower than we will and the prize money we get from finishing 18th rather than 20th, that I would argue Delap has a disproportionate hand in helping us achieve.
You seem to value Delap at £60M/£70M whereas experts I trust a little more don't put the same value on him currently based on one season in the top flight. So your value of profit left on the table is just your opinion and very likely inflated. [Post edited 11 Apr 0:50]
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I’d rather have Delap.
That doesn’t make it a good deal. [Post edited 11 Apr 7:04]
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:25 - Apr 11 with 1463 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 06:35 - Apr 11 by itfcsuth |
I’d rather have Delap.
That doesn’t make it a good deal. [Post edited 11 Apr 7:04]
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You've replied to me that you'd move onto other targets and you've replied to Berks that you'd rather have Delap. You're all over the place mate.
Basically, you want to have your cake and eat it, you're using the gift of hindsight and you're stamping your feet because the world isn't perfect.
Incidentally, given how we struggled to get another no.9 to support Delap (let alone replace him if we decided to walk away from the deal), who do you think we should've got instead? Given we were after another striker I'll need two answers. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:26 - Apr 11 with 1449 views | Herbivore |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 06:35 - Apr 11 by itfcsuth |
I’d rather have Delap.
That doesn’t make it a good deal. [Post edited 11 Apr 7:04]
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It's a good deal if the only alternative was not signing Delap though, which is the point being made. I don't understand why when people feel frustrated they have to blame someone for them feeling that way. It's possible to acknowledge that this is a frustrating and disappointing situation without having to make it someone's fault. It's a combination of us not being in a strong position to negotiate the deal (City not hugely motivated to sell, other parties interested, us newly promoted), Delap exceeding expectations in his first season, and us not managing to stay in the Prem. I'm sure we'd have preferred all of those things to be different but, you know, reality. |  |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:37 - Apr 11 with 1440 views | NeedhamChris |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:26 - Apr 11 by Herbivore |
It's a good deal if the only alternative was not signing Delap though, which is the point being made. I don't understand why when people feel frustrated they have to blame someone for them feeling that way. It's possible to acknowledge that this is a frustrating and disappointing situation without having to make it someone's fault. It's a combination of us not being in a strong position to negotiate the deal (City not hugely motivated to sell, other parties interested, us newly promoted), Delap exceeding expectations in his first season, and us not managing to stay in the Prem. I'm sure we'd have preferred all of those things to be different but, you know, reality. |
There seems to be a desire to define everything in the binary - if the deal isn't amazing (which potentially quadrupling his value would have been) then it's s**t.
I don't know why people can't just accept that it's an alright deal, we got a year of Delap and a bit of profit. It's nowhere near as exciting as it could have been financially but those suggesting we'd have been better off without him are talking nonsense (imo).
Sad thing is we're all talking about the money, the saddest thing hasn't changed - we're going down and we won't have the pleasure of watching Delap next season. | |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:41 - Apr 11 with 1435 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:26 - Apr 10 by itfcsuth |
He definitely was a hot prospect, his youth career at Man City was fantastic, his goal return was phenomenal - so indeed, he was approaching my description of him.
As I say, you can dress it up whichever way you like, we’ve ended up a marginal profit on what really should be maximum profit - to my definition, that is really poor business.
Needless to go back and forth when we are so far apart with our opinion on it. |
Loads of players have a phenomenal record at youth level. That doesn't mean they'll go on to be £70m/£80m players.
Into men's football, on loan at Stoke he scored 3 goals in 22 appearances.
On loan at Preston he scored 1 goal in 15 appearances.
On loan at Hull he scored 8 goals in 31.
Your description of him is largely, I suspect, based on hindsight. Your definition of "really poor business" might work if you were playing a football manager computer game, but it removes all context of the situation in real life and what we were able to do as a newly promoted club. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 09:05 - Apr 11 with 1335 views | berkstractorboy |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 06:35 - Apr 11 by itfcsuth |
I’d rather have Delap.
That doesn’t make it a good deal. [Post edited 11 Apr 7:04]
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OK thanks for answering.
I think we have very different views on the good deal if its the only one on the table and you'd rather have Delap that kind of makes it a good deal.
Why be so keen to bash Ashton that he did a bad deal, don't you think he is trying to do the best for the club? | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 09:11 - Apr 11 with 1311 views | tractorboy1978 |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 23:49 - Apr 10 by itfcsuth |
If the deal isn’t the best for the club, then of course you move on to alternative targets. |
We could have moved on to Cameron Archer like Southampton did. £15m and he's been sh!te. We could have signed Broja and he spent the whole season on the sidelines. We could have signed Ioannidis for the best part of £30m and he could have flopped (he's been fairly crap in Greece this season). Personally I am happy we've seen Delap rip it up this season. The release clause is far from ideal but making out we've done the worst deal ever is nonsense. He will leave for a profit and we will go again.
More established clubs than us have been stiffed on release clauses. Look at Brighton having to sell Mac Allistair for £35m after he was one of the best players at the 2022 World Cup. | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:06 - Apr 11 with 1247 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 06:35 - Apr 11 by itfcsuth |
I’d rather have Delap.
That doesn’t make it a good deal. [Post edited 11 Apr 7:04]
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Neither does it make it a bad (or stinking deal), without the benefit of hindsight.
But then again, so many of our fans think running a club is like playing fantasy football ... | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:10 - Apr 11 with 1236 views | blueasfook |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 21:36 - Apr 10 by Trequartista |
So £40m is bandied about, Ashton says figures quoted are not correct and says we are very, very well protected implying its more when it turns out to be £30m. He also said it would be breach of contract to reveal any clauses and now we're confirming £30m relegation release clause??? |
Yep, that's pretty much it! |  |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:21 - Apr 11 with 1202 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 09:11 - Apr 11 by tractorboy1978 |
We could have moved on to Cameron Archer like Southampton did. £15m and he's been sh!te. We could have signed Broja and he spent the whole season on the sidelines. We could have signed Ioannidis for the best part of £30m and he could have flopped (he's been fairly crap in Greece this season). Personally I am happy we've seen Delap rip it up this season. The release clause is far from ideal but making out we've done the worst deal ever is nonsense. He will leave for a profit and we will go again.
More established clubs than us have been stiffed on release clauses. Look at Brighton having to sell Mac Allistair for £35m after he was one of the best players at the 2022 World Cup. |
I think I'm right in saying we did try to sign Ioannidis but he didn't want to come.
I'm struggling to think of who else we should have got (given we wanted and failed to land another striker anyway).
Which leaves us with Hirst (injured for a large chunk) and Al-Hamadi.
All things considered, signing Delap was an excellent deal. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:30 - Apr 11 with 1161 views | BseaBlue |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:26 - Apr 11 by Herbivore |
It's a good deal if the only alternative was not signing Delap though, which is the point being made. I don't understand why when people feel frustrated they have to blame someone for them feeling that way. It's possible to acknowledge that this is a frustrating and disappointing situation without having to make it someone's fault. It's a combination of us not being in a strong position to negotiate the deal (City not hugely motivated to sell, other parties interested, us newly promoted), Delap exceeding expectations in his first season, and us not managing to stay in the Prem. I'm sure we'd have preferred all of those things to be different but, you know, reality. |
This is spot on by the way. There has to be a blame culture these days for everything, whether that is players for bad results or the board for situations such as this.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be accountability for things but if the Southampton situation is true, we could have ended up without Delap and £12 million profit that we can't pocket in the summer.
I would also assume that the fee we paid for Delap will be amortised where as we can show the whole £30 million quid once he is sold? Add that in to the parachute payments plus any other sales and we will be in a fairly strong postion won't we? |  | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:41 - Apr 11 with 1135 views | berkstractorboy |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:21 - Apr 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think I'm right in saying we did try to sign Ioannidis but he didn't want to come.
I'm struggling to think of who else we should have got (given we wanted and failed to land another striker anyway).
Which leaves us with Hirst (injured for a large chunk) and Al-Hamadi.
All things considered, signing Delap was an excellent deal. |
I can imagine there were many more enquiries in the Summer and Winter windows for strikers who were likely beyond our means and we probably got shriftly told no by either club or player. Maybe Martial, Richarlison etc who could have been deemed surplus at clubs but didn't want this challenge for financial and/or footballing reasons.
With hindsight you look back now and have to question who we could seriously have got if we didn't have Delap. Taken a huge punt on Broja being fitter sooner than expected (and what a meltdown that would have been on here)? | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 11:02 - Apr 11 with 1068 views | NeedhamChris |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 10:21 - Apr 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think I'm right in saying we did try to sign Ioannidis but he didn't want to come.
I'm struggling to think of who else we should have got (given we wanted and failed to land another striker anyway).
Which leaves us with Hirst (injured for a large chunk) and Al-Hamadi.
All things considered, signing Delap was an excellent deal. |
As always it's left to me, you, Herbs, DropCliffsnotBombs to defend the club together
:) | |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 11:55 - Apr 11 with 1000 views | Len_Brennan |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 07:26 - Apr 11 by Herbivore |
It's a good deal if the only alternative was not signing Delap though, which is the point being made. I don't understand why when people feel frustrated they have to blame someone for them feeling that way. It's possible to acknowledge that this is a frustrating and disappointing situation without having to make it someone's fault. It's a combination of us not being in a strong position to negotiate the deal (City not hugely motivated to sell, other parties interested, us newly promoted), Delap exceeding expectations in his first season, and us not managing to stay in the Prem. I'm sure we'd have preferred all of those things to be different but, you know, reality. |
This is the point as I see it. Premier League quality strikers have been in short supply this season, as a number of higher positioned clubs have also found, so us bringing in Delap was quite a coup in itself.
Of course at the time a number of posters on here thought he was a poor signing & the fee paid was crazy money. Had this release clause been made public right from the off, I don't think too many on here would have been pulling their hair out at the thoughts off selling him for £30m just 10 months later. We have to be fair & consider the contract in terms of the contemporaneous circumstances.
Also, we are looking at 2 contracts here really; firstly the one we had to agree with Man City, where we bought him out of the existing one he had with them, and secondly the one we had to agree with Delap & his agent, which didn't involve City, outside of the buy back element of the first contract above.
The buy back does not appear to be issue that will arise, so really the discussions going on over the last few days revolves around the Ipswich negotiations with Delap's agent. (Yes I know there is a sell on for City, but that's not the issue that is upsetting people).
Delap's representatives clearly, and justifiably, were concerned at the prospects of us going down, and where that would leave their man - which is reasonable. A £10m increase in value on the face of it doesn't sound ridiculous, with the City sell on 'only' taking £2m of that, leaving us with an Ogbene fee level of profit. (I am assuming the sell on is the standard percentage on profit rather than full fee).
If we were to stay up it appears that this would not be an issue, and we would be able to have an auction off to the highest bidder situation, but that's not going to happen now & we have to accept that Delap's agent properly protected him against our relegation.
I think Ashton gave the quote about the club being well protected a couple of months ago; he probably felt we had a good chance of staying above Wolves at that point, & therefore the likelihood of the relegation clause being invoked was not necessarily the most pressing worry he had. But we didn't kick on, like most of us expected to some degree, and Wolves suddenly became one of the most in form team in the league, thus sealing our fate.
It is what it is. | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 13:47 - Apr 11 with 849 views | textbackup |
Everyone seems to be overlooking one important part of this. Whatever profit we make will/should be gobbled up anyway by giving AAH a huge new long term deal to keep him here for a long time and become our new Delap |  |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 14:02 - Apr 11 with 796 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 13:47 - Apr 11 by textbackup |
Everyone seems to be overlooking one important part of this. Whatever profit we make will/should be gobbled up anyway by giving AAH a huge new long term deal to keep him here for a long time and become our new Delap |
We get it, we know AAH's your favourite player. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 15:54 - Apr 11 with 733 views | textbackup |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 14:02 - Apr 11 by The_Flashing_Smile |
We get it, we know AAH's your favourite player. |
Cam B is actually, closely followed by Wolfie | |
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| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 17:25 - Apr 11 with 659 views | portmanking |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 13:47 - Apr 11 by textbackup |
Everyone seems to be overlooking one important part of this. Whatever profit we make will/should be gobbled up anyway by giving AAH a huge new long term deal to keep him here for a long time and become our new Delap |
Dunno why you're on such a downer the club, but it's getting pretty tiresome. The club is like night and day to the one it was in January 2021. Our long-term success wasn't ever going to be linear. | | | |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 17:35 - Apr 11 with 650 views | SmithersJones |
| 30m release clause for Delap when we go down on 11:55 - Apr 11 by Len_Brennan |
This is the point as I see it. Premier League quality strikers have been in short supply this season, as a number of higher positioned clubs have also found, so us bringing in Delap was quite a coup in itself.
Of course at the time a number of posters on here thought he was a poor signing & the fee paid was crazy money. Had this release clause been made public right from the off, I don't think too many on here would have been pulling their hair out at the thoughts off selling him for £30m just 10 months later. We have to be fair & consider the contract in terms of the contemporaneous circumstances.
Also, we are looking at 2 contracts here really; firstly the one we had to agree with Man City, where we bought him out of the existing one he had with them, and secondly the one we had to agree with Delap & his agent, which didn't involve City, outside of the buy back element of the first contract above.
The buy back does not appear to be issue that will arise, so really the discussions going on over the last few days revolves around the Ipswich negotiations with Delap's agent. (Yes I know there is a sell on for City, but that's not the issue that is upsetting people).
Delap's representatives clearly, and justifiably, were concerned at the prospects of us going down, and where that would leave their man - which is reasonable. A £10m increase in value on the face of it doesn't sound ridiculous, with the City sell on 'only' taking £2m of that, leaving us with an Ogbene fee level of profit. (I am assuming the sell on is the standard percentage on profit rather than full fee).
If we were to stay up it appears that this would not be an issue, and we would be able to have an auction off to the highest bidder situation, but that's not going to happen now & we have to accept that Delap's agent properly protected him against our relegation.
I think Ashton gave the quote about the club being well protected a couple of months ago; he probably felt we had a good chance of staying above Wolves at that point, & therefore the likelihood of the relegation clause being invoked was not necessarily the most pressing worry he had. But we didn't kick on, like most of us expected to some degree, and Wolves suddenly became one of the most in form team in the league, thus sealing our fate.
It is what it is. |
Absolutely right. And remember that relegation clauses work both ways - if Delap stayed he would almost certainly be facing a wage cut because we’ve gone down. So it’s perfectly reasonable for his agents to insert a clause that stops us holding on to him at all costs.
I suspect that most if not all our summer signings have similar clauses in their contracts (“Your wages go down by x% unless someone offers £y million for you in which case you’re free to go”). It’s just that, other than Delap, no one will be offering £y million for them. | | | |
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