| Reform 06:58 - May 2 with 22497 views | Benters |
Well done.
They don’t like it up em 👍🇬🇧 |  |
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| Reform on 09:53 - May 2 with 924 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform on 09:15 - May 2 by Trequartista |
Personally I think they would be an utter disaster, but we've had Conservatives being useless and Labour have done barely anything so its quite natural people will start to look elsewhere.
Immigration is great, even essential. Mass immigration at unprecented numbers and illegal immigration is a huge problem, made worse by the taboo the radical left put around it, so Reform are lapping that up.
Labour and the left need to get their act together pretty sharpish. |
That’s a bit of a false narrative. I know it’s become a mainstream ‘truth’ that we have a massive and growing immigration problem, but we really don’t. Of the most recent stats there’s been a 37% decline in visa applications from 2023/24 to 2024/25, and that’s on top of previous declines from 2022/23. So we’re seeing sharp falls in arrivals, not growth and unprecedented numbers.
And then the vast majority of arrivals are needed:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67b712da78dd6cacb71c6a75/iss-dec2
(From here https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-endi
They’re desperately needed to prop up multiple sectors and notably health/social care and education/research. Attacking these groups has lead to significant falls in applications and arrivals (78% drop for health and care workers, 11% drop for students and 83% drop for student families). This is hurting our health and social care system and currently devastating universities with mass redundancies (of which I’m one).
So in short, the narrative hasn’t kept up with what’s happening to the numbers and is also deliberately misleading. But then the likes of Farage don’t care about the facts. It’s a classic populist move to attract voters even though voting for them is not in our best interests (see also Johnson, Brexit, Trump, Orban in Hungary, Bolsonaro In Brazil, etc). [Post edited 2 May 9:53]
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| Reform on 09:53 - May 2 with 912 views | bluejacko |
| Reform on 08:08 - May 2 by Herbivore |
Tell me you're a Reform fan without telling me you're a Reform fan. |
Doesn’t really matter here in NI,don’t get the option to vote reform although they did have a bit of a deal with the TUV but they are not really relevant anyway apart from splitting the unionist vote!So no I wouldn’t vote reform👍 |  | | |
| Reform on 09:57 - May 2 with 891 views | itfcjoe |
| Reform on 09:36 - May 2 by StokieBlue |
I think if you read my post again I've said there is a loss of critical thinking due to social media, I've not gone further than that.
Given that the upvotes are interesting. Almost like they didn't apply critical thinking to my post.
You are certainly right to highlight there can be a lack of critical thinking on both sides, however I do think that a study would show one side with the edge although that is a personal view and I have no such study to reference.
SB |
I don't disagree, but people are speaking 2 different languages across these debates these days - there's just no common ground |  |
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| Reform on 09:58 - May 2 with 861 views | leitrimblue |
| Reform on 08:26 - May 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
There is something in what Alan's saying here Herbie...
"People will vote for them anyway as their base don't care about competence, they only care about kicking brown people out of the country."
I think what they/we care about is being marginalised and ignored for decades by ruling parties of both shades of neo-Con. Capitalism isn't working, Reform won't be changing that either. |
Exactly, what options to people have?
Tories have shown themselves to be completely incompetent.
Labour appear to stand for nothing and have turned their backs on the poorest in society in order to chase the Jeremy Clarkson/Daily Mail vote.
Labour's deserting of the working class as just left an enormous vacuum to be filled by man of the people/privileged public school banker Farage.
I'm tempted to vote reform in the next general election. Though mainly as I don't live in the UK and I think it might be fun to watch from a short distance  |  | | |
| Reform on 09:59 - May 2 with 869 views | blueasfook |
| Reform on 09:52 - May 2 by DanTheMan |
Unfortunately, nobody wants to explain why we need it and why successive governments have relied on it regardless of ideology.
We can probably get rid of loads of immigration, it will just mean a lot higher taxes for everyone.
That won't be palatable though so we'll keep harping on about lowering immigration as if there are zero downsides. |
I think it's the boat crossings that many people want stopped. For that to happen, someone needs to take a hard line on it and both Labour and Cons seem to have shied away from that. Let's not forget one of Keir's oft used phrases during the election campaign was "Smash the gangs" and he doesn't seem to have delivered on that. How many gangs have been "smashed" exactly I wonder?! |  |
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| Reform on 10:01 - May 2 with 844 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Reform on 09:14 - May 2 by BlueForYou |
In my own experience a few years back when some neighbours & I had a local issue we wanted resolved, we just wanted someone to stand up & help us whatever their politics. UKIP were the only party to listen & actually do something about it. The others were useless & didn't want to know us. |
What was the issue? |  |
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| Reform on 10:03 - May 2 with 824 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Reform on 09:16 - May 2 by blueasfook |
What was that party that had problems with rampant anti-semitism under previous leadership again?
Limbour, Lambour? Something like that IIRC |
"Rampant"
Lolz. | |
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| Reform on 10:05 - May 2 with 816 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Reform on 09:20 - May 2 by blueasfook |
Reform will keep making gains as long whichever ruling party (Labour/Con) fail to get a grip on immigration |
So you're saying that IS all their voters care about after all?  | |
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| Reform on 10:06 - May 2 with 790 views | NeedhamChris |
| Reform on 08:19 - May 2 by Lord_Lucan |
Like it or lump it Herbivore but the reason people are voting Reform is because of people like you.
Whenever people question the amount and speed of uncontrolled immigration they are called racist or idiotic schoolboy comments about a dislike of “Brown people”
You and your ilk have enabled the likes of Nigel Farage so suck it up baby.
…..downvoters will underline blindness. |
I think you’ve hit on something important, LL. Tone really does matter. When discussions around parties like Reform are dominated by moral condemnation rather than reasoned debate, it can leave people feeling talked down to or even silenced. That kind of atmosphere doesn’t persuade, it just pushes people away.
Even if we think someone is making a poor political choice, treating them with disdain often backfires. It ends up hardening positions rather than opening minds. There's a difference between challenging views and shutting people down and when the latter becomes the norm, it’s no wonder some voters respond by backing those who claim to be "anti-establishment". [Post edited 2 May 10:16]
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| Reform on 10:06 - May 2 with 810 views | DanTheMan |
| Reform on 09:59 - May 2 by blueasfook |
I think it's the boat crossings that many people want stopped. For that to happen, someone needs to take a hard line on it and both Labour and Cons seem to have shied away from that. Let's not forget one of Keir's oft used phrases during the election campaign was "Smash the gangs" and he doesn't seem to have delivered on that. How many gangs have been "smashed" exactly I wonder?! |
It's a hard issue, either would have done it if they could. At the end of the day policing a massive island border just isn't feasible.
So we either need to suck it up and process them faster or spend a butt load of money trying in vain to police miles and miles of coastline.
Dealing with them is taken out of the foreign aid budget so it's not even like it has a material impact on our budget.
They are also a drop in the bucket compared to other forms of immigration.
All parties will of course say they'll be hard on them or say we'll just remove ourselves from the EHCR as if it'll help.
And this is the problem, people getting mad about things that aren't a massive issue. If you're upset about immigration, why care so much about the boats when it's only a fraction of actual immigration? Doesn't make any sense.
People are just pissed off that the country doesn't work for them (rightly so). Reform won't make it any better. They'll probably lower immigration, screw things up and then we'll just move on to blaming the people who are already here. |  |
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| Reform on 10:09 - May 2 with 767 views | NeedhamChris |
| Reform on 08:34 - May 2 by BlueBadger |
If you're choosing to vote for nazis because someone said something mean about you then you're even dimmer and more tragic than Herbers is suggesting.
I thought all these devil-may-care anti-wokists were supposed to be tufty-tufty free speech fans? [Post edited 2 May 8:57]
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Weaponising the Nazis (and by extension the Holocaust) to win an argument on a football forum is beyond grim. Comparing people voting Reform, however misguided you might think that is, to voting for Nazis is not just lazy, it’s a disgusting trivialisation of the industrial murder of millions of Jews and others. Shame on you.
It doesn’t make your point stronger. It just shows a complete lack of seriousness or respect for the actual horrors of fascism. If you want to criticise Reform, do it properly, with arguments, not shock tactics. Otherwise all you’re doing is using one of history’s darkest chapters to help you feel smug online. It’s gross behaviour, and it helps absolutely no one. | |
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| Reform on 10:12 - May 2 with 767 views | glasso |
| Reform on 08:07 - May 2 by Herbivore |
Labour also need to stop trying to out-Reform them with their own anti-immigrant rhetoric. I get what they are trying to do, they're trying to make Reform irrelevant by addressing the one issue Reform address. But you aren't going to out-Reform them and the people voting for Reform aren't going to switch to Labour. All it's doing is turning off people who might otherwise naturally be Labour voters. They need to start actually trying to make the country a better place rather than targeting marginalised groups. They aren't as good at doing that as the Tories or Reform so stop trying. |
It's exactly what brought down the Tories and Labour are trying the same.
"Look, there's a racist party that are picking up votes from horrible gammons! Should we call them out?"
"No. Let's try and do a little racism of our own." | | | |
| Reform on 10:13 - May 2 with 739 views | NeedhamChris |
Anyway - my reflections. Grim.
Sad night, really. Another day where our broken electoral system leaves people feeling like they have to vote for parties they don’t actually support (Labour or Reform) just to try and keep out something worse. That’s not democracy (imo)
In a proportional system, I’d vote Green without hesitation. I want to vote for something I believe in. But instead, people like me are made to feel guilty for "splitting the vote" as if voting with integrity is somehow irresponsible. It’s a grim way to run a democracy, and it needs to change.
No green (or lib dem/tory either tbf) voter should be made to feel guilty about voting with their hearts. | |
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| Reform on 10:13 - May 2 with 751 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Reform on 09:58 - May 2 by leitrimblue |
Exactly, what options to people have?
Tories have shown themselves to be completely incompetent.
Labour appear to stand for nothing and have turned their backs on the poorest in society in order to chase the Jeremy Clarkson/Daily Mail vote.
Labour's deserting of the working class as just left an enormous vacuum to be filled by man of the people/privileged public school banker Farage.
I'm tempted to vote reform in the next general election. Though mainly as I don't live in the UK and I think it might be fun to watch from a short distance |
Greens are the only ones I would even consider. Enjoy the show! | |
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| Reform on 10:15 - May 2 with 744 views | Guthrum |
| Reform on 09:59 - May 2 by blueasfook |
I think it's the boat crossings that many people want stopped. For that to happen, someone needs to take a hard line on it and both Labour and Cons seem to have shied away from that. Let's not forget one of Keir's oft used phrases during the election campaign was "Smash the gangs" and he doesn't seem to have delivered on that. How many gangs have been "smashed" exactly I wonder?! |
It hasn't helped greatly that the ham-fisted Brexit we ended up with left the UK without previous arrangements on cross-Channel policing, the ability to return illegal migrants and the like.
If Johnson had spent less time trolling about "No Deal" and done the work properly, we might have had something which functioned better. But his successors would rather fly one person to Rwanda at eye-watering expense, or keep refugees in costly-to-run camps.
On that note, the incessant budget cutting of the last decade or so has only served to deny the police and Border Force necessary resources. |  |
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| Reform on 10:16 - May 2 with 723 views | vapour_trail |
| Reform on 10:09 - May 2 by NeedhamChris |
Weaponising the Nazis (and by extension the Holocaust) to win an argument on a football forum is beyond grim. Comparing people voting Reform, however misguided you might think that is, to voting for Nazis is not just lazy, it’s a disgusting trivialisation of the industrial murder of millions of Jews and others. Shame on you.
It doesn’t make your point stronger. It just shows a complete lack of seriousness or respect for the actual horrors of fascism. If you want to criticise Reform, do it properly, with arguments, not shock tactics. Otherwise all you’re doing is using one of history’s darkest chapters to help you feel smug online. It’s gross behaviour, and it helps absolutely no one. |
You are a funny man, Christopher. |  |
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| Reform on 10:19 - May 2 with 696 views | DJR |
The Reform UK website appears to be lacking any policies but this is what their general election said about "the boats"
"Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan
. Leave the European Convention on Human Rights.
. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK.
. New Department of Immigration.
. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France"
The first point is clearly necessary to achieve points 2 and 4, so it would be interesting to know if any on here professing support for Reform would be happy for the UK to leave the ECHR and so join Belarus and Russia as the only countries in Europe to do so.
[Post edited 2 May 10:24]
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| Reform on 10:21 - May 2 with 664 views | leitrimblue |
| Reform on 10:13 - May 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Greens are the only ones I would even consider. Enjoy the show! |
I'm sure the Greens would be fine. Unfortunately, just no way as amusing as a Reform government.
I plan to be like Jah Jah, sitting on the mountain top, watching Babylon burning red hot, red hot.  | | | |
| Reform on 10:21 - May 2 with 685 views | Libero |
Very worrying times. It makes me fear for my son's future, he has high support needs and everything I've read from Reform surrounding disability and the benefits required to support disabled people is absolutely abysmal, totally inhumane.
There there's the fact they're a party of nasty thick racists...
Beggars belief that there's a taste for their nonsense- but half these fools voting for them won't have read any documentation and are just bewitched by Farage's facade. [Post edited 2 May 10:22]
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| Reform on 10:22 - May 2 with 660 views | StokieBlue |
| Reform on 10:19 - May 2 by DJR |
The Reform UK website appears to be lacking any policies but this is what their general election said about "the boats"
"Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan
. Leave the European Convention on Human Rights.
. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK.
. New Department of Immigration.
. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France"
The first point is clearly necessary to achieve points 2 and 4, so it would be interesting to know if any on here professing support for Reform would be happy for the UK to leave the ECHR and so join Belarus and Russia as the only countries in Europe to do so.
[Post edited 2 May 10:24]
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Clearly they are because they will have researched all the policies, the effects those policies would have and thought about any possible unforeseen tangential issues that may arise.
SB |  | | |
| Reform on 10:22 - May 2 with 655 views | Mullet |
| Reform on 10:09 - May 2 by NeedhamChris |
Weaponising the Nazis (and by extension the Holocaust) to win an argument on a football forum is beyond grim. Comparing people voting Reform, however misguided you might think that is, to voting for Nazis is not just lazy, it’s a disgusting trivialisation of the industrial murder of millions of Jews and others. Shame on you.
It doesn’t make your point stronger. It just shows a complete lack of seriousness or respect for the actual horrors of fascism. If you want to criticise Reform, do it properly, with arguments, not shock tactics. Otherwise all you’re doing is using one of history’s darkest chapters to help you feel smug online. It’s gross behaviour, and it helps absolutely no one. |
It's an interesting point, but you don't seem to hold those on the other side to anything close to the same scrutiny - when this thread is littered with the same lack of clarity or facts from them.
What's worse? Reform voters who feel upset about being compared to Nazis, or Reform voters who don't?
I guess the fact Farage is another Moseley wannabe, doesn't strike the same chord as he was such a bellend too. |  |
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| Reform on 10:23 - May 2 with 1048 views | Guthrum |
| Reform on 10:19 - May 2 by DJR |
The Reform UK website appears to be lacking any policies but this is what their general election said about "the boats"
"Stop the Boats with our 4 Point Plan
. Leave the European Convention on Human Rights.
. Zero illegal immigrants to be resettled in the UK.
. New Department of Immigration.
. Pick up illegal migrants out of boats and take them back to France"
The first point is clearly necessary to achieve points 2 and 4, so it would be interesting to know if any on here professing support for Reform would be happy for the UK to leave the ECHR and so join Belarus and Russia as the only countries in Europe to do so.
[Post edited 2 May 10:24]
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And the problem with their point 4 is that there is no legal framework (ECHR or otherwise) to do so, nor would the French be obliged to allow them to land. | |
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| Reform on 10:25 - May 2 with 1008 views | NeedhamChris |
| Reform on 10:22 - May 2 by Mullet |
It's an interesting point, but you don't seem to hold those on the other side to anything close to the same scrutiny - when this thread is littered with the same lack of clarity or facts from them.
What's worse? Reform voters who feel upset about being compared to Nazis, or Reform voters who don't?
I guess the fact Farage is another Moseley wannabe, doesn't strike the same chord as he was such a bellend too. |
Fair enough, happy to admit some bias. I don’t really care if Reform or the Tories lose the argument, but I do care if Green and progressive values win it. That’s why it frustrates me more when people on our side push others away.
It’s not about defending Reform voters, it’s about not making it easier for them to double down. | |
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| Reform on 10:25 - May 2 with 1030 views | Leaky |
| Reform on 08:28 - May 2 by Herbivore |
Nah, it's a lazy line people trot out to make themselves feel better. People on here who are fans of Reform aren't anti-capitalist, they are anti-immigration. |
I think your wrong controlled immigration is fine. Prefer the Aussie system though. |  | | |
| Reform on 10:29 - May 2 with 1001 views | Blueschev |
| Reform on 09:15 - May 2 by Trequartista |
Personally I think they would be an utter disaster, but we've had Conservatives being useless and Labour have done barely anything so its quite natural people will start to look elsewhere.
Immigration is great, even essential. Mass immigration at unprecented numbers and illegal immigration is a huge problem, made worse by the taboo the radical left put around it, so Reform are lapping that up.
Labour and the left need to get their act together pretty sharpish. |
Immigration is one of the most discussed topics on every current affairs programme. Farage is on mainstream news outlets on an almost daily basis. He's been on Question Time more times than David Dimbleby. It's far from taboo, despite the people criticising immigration constantly saying they can't talk about it when all they do is talk about it.
We need immigration in this country because we have a demographic timebomb when it comes to paying for public services. Labour need to be honest about this, rather than aping Reform's bluster, which does nothing but concede the narrative to snake oil salesmen such as Farage. [Post edited 2 May 10:37]
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