| The Times with another explosive scoop.... 19:25 - Apr 18 with 20286 views | itfcjoe |
Won’t be long until these Tories are truly held to account.
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:47 - Apr 19 with 760 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:32 - Apr 19 by Herbivore |
Yeah but Labour. |
It's a bit strange innit. Even when nurses are being sent out to risk death dressed in bin bags and Hancock is lying about doing everything they can to provide PPE (except contact our own PPE providers apparently).
The tribalism on display is mind-bogglingly insane. It's like trying to defend Paul Hurst's record here because he's was 'one of us'.
Any government of any colour should be subject to scrutiny. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:51 - Apr 19 with 746 views | r2d2 |
#anotherleftiebumfestthread |  | | |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:51 - Apr 19 with 735 views | Herbivore |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:47 - Apr 19 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a bit strange innit. Even when nurses are being sent out to risk death dressed in bin bags and Hancock is lying about doing everything they can to provide PPE (except contact our own PPE providers apparently).
The tribalism on display is mind-bogglingly insane. It's like trying to defend Paul Hurst's record here because he's was 'one of us'.
Any government of any colour should be subject to scrutiny. |
I quite agree. I read some of the attempted justifications and whataboutery and it makes me want to bang my head against the wall. The number of times I've seen people go with variations of imagine how Corbyn would be doing - because Corbyn was known for being against state intervention and supporting the NHS, obviously - is as staggering as it is utterly irrelevant. I guess it's an easy way to not have to own the sh!t show you voted for. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:52 - Apr 19 with 737 views | footers |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:51 - Apr 19 by r2d2 |
#anotherleftiebumfestthread |
You're best mates with C3PO ffs. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:53 - Apr 19 with 728 views | Herbivore |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:51 - Apr 19 by r2d2 |
#anotherleftiebumfestthread |
It's about a story from the right wing Times and the OP is very much a centrist. But yeah, if you want to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend everything is going swimmingly then the lefty bumfest deflection is a good way to go. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 9:55]
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:53 - Apr 19 with 728 views | pointofblue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:33 - Apr 19 by Darth_Koont |
I suggest that “we” on the Labour right have a word with “ourselves” before ever criticising Corbyn for not putting up “effective opposition”. |
Jeremy Corbyn was leading the party and looking to lead the country to a point of nationalisation and greater tax and spend. Intriguingly the country looked prepared for this in 2015 but not in 2019 which suggest the cult (replace a letter as you wish) personality and a bland, meaningless message on Brexit swayed the populace more so towards the Conservatives.
I couldn’t vote for either main party last year. I won’t be able to vote for the Conservatives unless the party takes a real step towards the centre and I won’t be able to vote for Labour until some of the policies heralded by Corbyn are removed from the manifesto - particularly nationalisation which, from just my point of view, is not the direction for the country to take.
Not that I’m speaking for everyone but when the choice is a party moving to the right and a party moving to the left then England, at least, as a whole prefers the former whilst Labour have been weakened further by the emergence of the SNP in Scotland.
Back to the initial topic of the thread and the saddest thing is it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. It’s just the approach I feared Johnson would take if a national crisis occurred - the phrase Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned springs to mind. For all his faults there was a reason why Gove torpedoed Johnson’s leadership campaign in 2015. The party which turned a blind eye to so much desperately needs to open it, only to realise it has been wilfully stuck down. Saying this I am fully prepared for the scientists to be thrown under the bus as an explanation; there are already indicators in the article itself for that to happen. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:03 - Apr 19 with 696 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:53 - Apr 19 by pointofblue |
Jeremy Corbyn was leading the party and looking to lead the country to a point of nationalisation and greater tax and spend. Intriguingly the country looked prepared for this in 2015 but not in 2019 which suggest the cult (replace a letter as you wish) personality and a bland, meaningless message on Brexit swayed the populace more so towards the Conservatives.
I couldn’t vote for either main party last year. I won’t be able to vote for the Conservatives unless the party takes a real step towards the centre and I won’t be able to vote for Labour until some of the policies heralded by Corbyn are removed from the manifesto - particularly nationalisation which, from just my point of view, is not the direction for the country to take.
Not that I’m speaking for everyone but when the choice is a party moving to the right and a party moving to the left then England, at least, as a whole prefers the former whilst Labour have been weakened further by the emergence of the SNP in Scotland.
Back to the initial topic of the thread and the saddest thing is it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. It’s just the approach I feared Johnson would take if a national crisis occurred - the phrase Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned springs to mind. For all his faults there was a reason why Gove torpedoed Johnson’s leadership campaign in 2015. The party which turned a blind eye to so much desperately needs to open it, only to realise it has been wilfully stuck down. Saying this I am fully prepared for the scientists to be thrown under the bus as an explanation; there are already indicators in the article itself for that to happen. |
Labour is lost in Scotland because they became bland centrists when there was a strong belief in progressive politics and change.
In England, that same underlying disillusionment and disenfranchisement has been co-opted by right-wing populism both from Tory activist Farage but the Conservative Party as well.
If the answer to this is centrism then we might as well give up. Centrism doesn’t know what it wants. And it consistently fails the people who need an alternative and change. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:03 - Apr 19 with 704 views | Churchman |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:22 - Apr 19 by DanTheMan |
I think that's part of the interest for me, the whole "we could have done more in the five weeks" seems somewhat pale in comparison when it seems we basically ignored our own plan for a pandemic because of Austerity and (surprise surpise) Brexit.
One could argue that this is hindsight, but given it was apparently our highest risk and has been for well over a decade, that does not seem to fly. Seems like we played lip service to it being the biggest risk and hedged our bets it wouldn't happen. |
I believe that our biggest risk in the past decade was in fact consequences of No deal Brexit in March 2019. Without the work done as a priority by many people in and out of government in the lead up, the consequences would have been unimaginably bad. It was a real possibility. The other risk is of course further terrorism. By comparison to recent issues and known risks, I would argue that the prospect of a once in a generation pandemic like this was rightly well down the priority list. Wrongly, as it’s turned out!! There are so many lessons to be learned. |  | | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:24 - Apr 19 with 674 views | pointofblue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:03 - Apr 19 by Darth_Koont |
Labour is lost in Scotland because they became bland centrists when there was a strong belief in progressive politics and change.
In England, that same underlying disillusionment and disenfranchisement has been co-opted by right-wing populism both from Tory activist Farage but the Conservative Party as well.
If the answer to this is centrism then we might as well give up. Centrism doesn’t know what it wants. And it consistently fails the people who need an alternative and change. |
Labour’s bland centrists claimed more Scottish seats in the 1997 and 2001 general elections than it’s predecessors whilst was level in number with October 1974 and 1983 for the 2005 and 2010 general elections. It was Miliband who lost the swathe of seats to the SNP in 2015 and even in 2017 May managed to regain a greater foothold north of the border than Corbyn did.
If I understand it correctly, and apologies if I’m wrong, by your argument the choice needs to between the far right and far left. For me, this is not a healthy way to lead the country and would leave to wild swings in approach as one party gained supremacy from the other and would lack room for other voices to be aired and the choice of compromise and negotiation. | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:30 - Apr 19 with 656 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:24 - Apr 19 by pointofblue |
Labour’s bland centrists claimed more Scottish seats in the 1997 and 2001 general elections than it’s predecessors whilst was level in number with October 1974 and 1983 for the 2005 and 2010 general elections. It was Miliband who lost the swathe of seats to the SNP in 2015 and even in 2017 May managed to regain a greater foothold north of the border than Corbyn did.
If I understand it correctly, and apologies if I’m wrong, by your argument the choice needs to between the far right and far left. For me, this is not a healthy way to lead the country and would leave to wild swings in approach as one party gained supremacy from the other and would lack room for other voices to be aired and the choice of compromise and negotiation. |
The SNP occupy Labour’s natural position as the party of socialist principles. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:30 - Apr 19 with 646 views | Herbivore |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:24 - Apr 19 by pointofblue |
Labour’s bland centrists claimed more Scottish seats in the 1997 and 2001 general elections than it’s predecessors whilst was level in number with October 1974 and 1983 for the 2005 and 2010 general elections. It was Miliband who lost the swathe of seats to the SNP in 2015 and even in 2017 May managed to regain a greater foothold north of the border than Corbyn did.
If I understand it correctly, and apologies if I’m wrong, by your argument the choice needs to between the far right and far left. For me, this is not a healthy way to lead the country and would leave to wild swings in approach as one party gained supremacy from the other and would lack room for other voices to be aired and the choice of compromise and negotiation. |
Far left? Social democracy is not far left. | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:34 - Apr 19 with 638 views | Pinewoodblue |
The root of the problem is that administratively the link between government and operational NHS isn’t fit for purpose.
Sadly Johnson either can’t see it or isn’t prepared to face it head on. | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:41 - Apr 19 with 625 views | footers |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:30 - Apr 19 by Herbivore |
Far left? Social democracy is not far left. |
Depends how far right you are I s'pose. Tho many may consider that position to be 'centrist', which is probably the biggest issue we have. | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:42 - Apr 19 with 623 views | vapour_trail |
I fear that this country is far too thick to hold the government to account. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:43 - Apr 19 with 613 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:24 - Apr 19 by pointofblue |
Labour’s bland centrists claimed more Scottish seats in the 1997 and 2001 general elections than it’s predecessors whilst was level in number with October 1974 and 1983 for the 2005 and 2010 general elections. It was Miliband who lost the swathe of seats to the SNP in 2015 and even in 2017 May managed to regain a greater foothold north of the border than Corbyn did.
If I understand it correctly, and apologies if I’m wrong, by your argument the choice needs to between the far right and far left. For me, this is not a healthy way to lead the country and would leave to wild swings in approach as one party gained supremacy from the other and would lack room for other voices to be aired and the choice of compromise and negotiation. |
Yes, you got it wrong.
The choice needs to be between sensible left-wing policies and sensible right-wing policies. The problem in the UK is we’ve gone a fair bit to the right so the relatively benign social democracy of the Labour Party manifestos of 2017 and 2019 has been painted by many as radical and extreme. But they’re not - they’re bog-standard European centre-left politics and a necessary answer to several decades of increasing inequality and under-investment.
A backdrop of a predominantly right-wing media with even the “centrist” media being highly resistant to upsetting the cosy status quo has left us here. It’s taken a pandemic to perhaps snap us out of it. | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:45 - Apr 19 with 611 views | BlueNomad |
All this “leftie” labelling on here is crazy. What those Tory-cultists on here forget is that this miserable crew forming a government have a duty to protect us all. They have failed in this duty and continue to do so. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 11:31]
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:46 - Apr 19 with 607 views | Ely_Blue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 21:37 - Apr 18 by monytowbray |
The advice the other nations followed and managed to lower the death count whilst potentially lifting lockdown sooner I’d imagine... |
Yeah because that’s worked well in Italy, Spain and France hasn’t it? |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:48 - Apr 19 with 600 views | eireblue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:46 - Apr 19 by Ely_Blue |
Yeah because that’s worked well in Italy, Spain and France hasn’t it? |
Can you tell us the growth rates of Coronavirus in a population in lockdown vs not in lockdown? |  | | |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:50 - Apr 19 with 592 views | tractordownsouth |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:33 - Apr 19 by Darth_Koont |
I suggest that “we” on the Labour right have a word with “ourselves” before ever criticising Corbyn for not putting up “effective opposition”. |
That stuff with the officials was awful and they should have been sacked, but the idea that it affected the election 2017 result in any meaningful way is misguided. Besides, they weren’t in charge in 2019 and that was our worst defeat in years, so they can’t be blamed for that.
It’s not necessarily a case of factionalism - sure, the manifesto was hard to get behind for many moderate voters, but a different leader with the same manifesto would have at least made a fist of it. Don’t get me wrong, I’d have preferred JC to Johnson any day, but his dodgy past associations, as well as his response to the Salisbury poisoning made many voters feel like he didn’t love this country .Whether that’s justified or not, that was the general perception... and having Abbott and McDonnell in high offices was just asking for trouble, electorally. The has to stop with him, I wish it didn’t and I was still supportive of Labour at the GE, but it’s abundantly clear that he wasn’t anything other than ineffective |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:51 - Apr 19 with 586 views | sparks |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:45 - Apr 19 by BlueNomad |
All this “leftie” labelling on here is crazy. What those Tory-cultists on here forget is that this miserable crew forming a government have a duty to protect us all. They have failed in this duty and continue to do so. [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 11:31]
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How do you know this?
What is starkly apparent is that people cannot step back and assess, rationally, the information available (and importantly- the information not available) because they are so wed to their political and ideological positions.
Someone points out a gap in the information, making your assertion speculative? Just shout "TORY!" or "LEFTY!"" depending on your perspective. Its pathetic. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:51 - Apr 19 with 583 views | tractordownsouth |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 09:47 - Apr 19 by Swansea_Blue |
It's a bit strange innit. Even when nurses are being sent out to risk death dressed in bin bags and Hancock is lying about doing everything they can to provide PPE (except contact our own PPE providers apparently).
The tribalism on display is mind-bogglingly insane. It's like trying to defend Paul Hurst's record here because he's was 'one of us'.
Any government of any colour should be subject to scrutiny. |
For all of this “don’t make it political”, it’s clear that the ones making it political are the ones defending incompetent actions which are putting lives at risk, just because the person doing it wore a blue rosette on December 12th. | |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:53 - Apr 19 with 580 views | Guthrum |
Boris Johnson in "not very conscientious" shock.
Tho this, if accurate, does look very poor for the Government's handling of the crisis, along with the "phony lockdown" of 16th to 23rd March. |  |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:56 - Apr 19 with 558 views | sparks |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:51 - Apr 19 by tractordownsouth |
For all of this “don’t make it political”, it’s clear that the ones making it political are the ones defending incompetent actions which are putting lives at risk, just because the person doing it wore a blue rosette on December 12th. |
The irony in this post is strong. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:58 - Apr 19 with 554 views | Ely_Blue |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:48 - Apr 19 by eireblue |
Can you tell us the growth rates of Coronavirus in a population in lockdown vs not in lockdown? |
That’s not the point in question here is it? I assume you heard the stories of civil unrest in Italy because they had been in lockdown too long? The people (and the press) of this country are bad enough as it is without as has been stated many times, the people being in lockdown for too long and before it was deemed necessary
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/singing-stops-italy-fear-social-un [Post edited 19 Apr 2020 11:00]
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| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:58 - Apr 19 with 558 views | sparks |
| The Times with another explosive scoop.... on 10:53 - Apr 19 by Guthrum |
Boris Johnson in "not very conscientious" shock.
Tho this, if accurate, does look very poor for the Government's handling of the crisis, along with the "phony lockdown" of 16th to 23rd March. |
Not really enough information imo.
Meeting being set up- Boris says "I haev these key things to deal with- am I needed?"
Senior folks say "no- we're good, we'll report back to you and get you on the phone if there is anythign very major to decide that we havent already discussed".
"Righto."
This is what goes on with meetings and senior people in every organisation. It may be that he was being lackadaisical. There may have been good reasons. Too many simply make assumptions though. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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