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If you’re London based on 21:39 - Dec 19 by vapour_trail
I respectfully disagree. I think there has been incredible changes in behaviour in response to the pandemic. Fcked up communications strategies from leadership have made this even more impressive.
I don’t like it when people do this, but I’ll c&p a post I published earlier today. This is relevant to moose and a few others, you’ll know them, on here.
Not as if some of us weren't saying Christmas at 20:03 19 Dec 2020
That as it may be, there’s a cohort on this board very quick to get on the case of anyone who isn’t three steps ahead of the government.
It is wearisome.
I say that as someone who is holding up through all of this. There’ll be plenty having more of a struggle. It would be good to see less sanctimony and more cutting people some slack.
Sorry vapes, but this 'Captain Hindsight' thing is pretty wearisome itself. People called it then and are calling it now. The government has been useless. The messaging has been flawed throughout, far too slow to react to anything and far too generous with allowances for people, because we're more 'freedom-loving'.
It's total bollox and much of the UK seems to do what it wants, when it wants from my POV.
Me and many others have been literal hermits this year, but there have been just as many going out at every opportunity, exploiting every new rule for their own benefit while ignorning one simple fact: we are in a pandemic. Just because 'boris' tells you you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Edit to your reply: Erm, I have no clue what you're on about?
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 21:50]
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
If you’re London based on 21:43 - Dec 19 by J2BLUE
Big fan of yours mate but I completely disagree.
Some people (Frimley's family a tragic example) need to break the rules to do the right thing. The vast majority of others really need to minimise all risks. Judging by tv interviews a lot of people went abroad just because they could which I consider pretty stupid. Also worth remembering Spruce is living a long way from his family and hasn't jumped on a plane despite the temptation which must be there.
Going on holiday for some people was following the rules. As was going to the pub. As was eating out to help out.
You coming out as a fan has turned 2020 round for me, j2, cheers fella.
If you’re London based on 18:40 - Dec 19 by dickie
I've got a very cynical, distrustful side to my character when it comes to Tories. Got this sneaking suspicion that stricter rules were going to be announced last minute all along - get people spending money, boost the economy then boom! clampdown!
If you’re London based on 21:48 - Dec 19 by footers
Sorry vapes, but this 'Captain Hindsight' thing is pretty wearisome itself. People called it then and are calling it now. The government has been useless. The messaging has been flawed throughout, far too slow to react to anything and far too generous with allowances for people, because we're more 'freedom-loving'.
It's total bollox and much of the UK seems to do what it wants, when it wants from my POV.
Me and many others have been literal hermits this year, but there have been just as many going out at every opportunity, exploiting every new rule for their own benefit while ignorning one simple fact: we are in a pandemic. Just because 'boris' tells you you can do something doesn't mean you should.
Edit to your reply: Erm, I have no clue what you're on about?
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 21:50]
I’ve been a hermit as well footers.
I’m clearly not expressing myself very successfully, which is concerning given I do comms for a living. Perhaps I should get a job working for Johnson.
If you’re London based on 21:54 - Dec 19 by vapour_trail
Going on holiday for some people was following the rules. As was going to the pub. As was eating out to help out.
You coming out as a fan has turned 2020 round for me, j2, cheers fella.
That's what we're saying though. The rules and the reality of still being in the middle of a pandemic are completely different things. If you look back to the summer you'll see many of us were annoyed people were going abroad because for the vast majority it was just so unnecessary.
I've been looking through the windows of coffee shops/restaurants as i've gone past and been amazed that people were actually in there. We are so close to being in a much better position that taking stupid risks is something I can't understand. Get to the spring with lots of people vaccinated and the weather changing and we're in a way better position. This is the darkest time of this pandemic so far and hopefully it will only get better*.
If you’re London based on 22:00 - Dec 19 by J2BLUE
That's what we're saying though. The rules and the reality of still being in the middle of a pandemic are completely different things. If you look back to the summer you'll see many of us were annoyed people were going abroad because for the vast majority it was just so unnecessary.
I've been looking through the windows of coffee shops/restaurants as i've gone past and been amazed that people were actually in there. We are so close to being in a much better position that taking stupid risks is something I can't understand. Get to the spring with lots of people vaccinated and the weather changing and we're in a way better position. This is the darkest time of this pandemic so far and hopefully it will only get better*.
*FAO Covid, that's not a fooking challenge.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 22:00]
I accept all of that j2, and as always, you present this very reasonably.
My experience is that there’s a significant number of loud people who present this view in an overtly hostile manner and it has made this board an unfriendly place to be at a time when people need a place to group together.
If you’re London based on 22:00 - Dec 19 by J2BLUE
That's what we're saying though. The rules and the reality of still being in the middle of a pandemic are completely different things. If you look back to the summer you'll see many of us were annoyed people were going abroad because for the vast majority it was just so unnecessary.
I've been looking through the windows of coffee shops/restaurants as i've gone past and been amazed that people were actually in there. We are so close to being in a much better position that taking stupid risks is something I can't understand. Get to the spring with lots of people vaccinated and the weather changing and we're in a way better position. This is the darkest time of this pandemic so far and hopefully it will only get better*.
*FAO Covid, that's not a fooking challenge.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 22:00]
My next door neighbours have been abroad 3 times since the end of lockdown 1, each time to a country that was not on the banned list. Total disregard for anyone but themselves, constantly moaning on Facebook about not being able to go to the pub.These are the sort of people that have pushed this virus on, and there are thousands and thousands of them in Suffolk alone, so I can only assume its the same all over the country. I am not sure I subscribe to the notion of it being linked to schools and colleges, its more the irresponsible actions of individuals.
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If you’re London based on 22:16 - Dec 19 with 2433 views
If you’re London based on 22:04 - Dec 19 by vapour_trail
I accept all of that j2, and as always, you present this very reasonably.
My experience is that there’s a significant number of loud people who present this view in an overtly hostile manner and it has made this board an unfriendly place to be at a time when people need a place to group together.
I can't really be arsed to respond to you again on this, but hold up. You were the person calling me an idiot and saying I should be banned for putting across a reasonable opinion. I was perfectly polite, I wasn't rude to anyone, but you flew off the handle. So let's not revise history here.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
If you’re London based on 22:13 - Dec 19 by gazzer1999
My next door neighbours have been abroad 3 times since the end of lockdown 1, each time to a country that was not on the banned list. Total disregard for anyone but themselves, constantly moaning on Facebook about not being able to go to the pub.These are the sort of people that have pushed this virus on, and there are thousands and thousands of them in Suffolk alone, so I can only assume its the same all over the country. I am not sure I subscribe to the notion of it being linked to schools and colleges, its more the irresponsible actions of individuals.
Everybody knows an arsehole.
The data overwhelmingly supports the view that the virus has spread through children in schools and then onwards.
If you’re London based on 16:54 - Dec 19 by lowhouseblue
if it adds 0.4 to r then there is little prospect of r ever falling below 1 in the areas with this variant. there is therefore the potential for rapid spread which out paces hospital capacity. which has always been the biggest fear in government. so in that sense it does seem scarey.
Absolutely this.
Too close to going out of control to take risks, had to be done, but I've a nasty feeling there'll be too many people willing to break the rules for it to be successful.
If you’re London based on 22:17 - Dec 19 by Ryorry
Absolutely this.
Too close to going out of control to take risks, had to be done, but I've a nasty feeling there'll be too many people willing to break the rules for it to be successful.
Of course they will, they did the first time, I have 2 children in the police and they will confirm it for you. They have seen it since March.
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If you’re London based on 22:26 - Dec 19 with 2365 views
If you’re London based on 22:04 - Dec 19 by vapour_trail
I accept all of that j2, and as always, you present this very reasonably.
My experience is that there’s a significant number of loud people who present this view in an overtly hostile manner and it has made this board an unfriendly place to be at a time when people need a place to group together.
I have a lot of sympathy for your position Vapers. A lot of people are very quick to criticise others with no insight into what may be behind their decisions. It is the certainty of "doing x or doing y is wrong and makes that person stupid/selfish" that annoys me.
Mate of mine lost his Dad in April. His mum had to nominate just 7 mourners for the funeral. When he went he couldn't hug his mum as they were the rules. I told him to do what he wanted and not feel duty bound by the rules.
A single mum I know struggling to work, educate her child and come August she opted to visit her mother for a holiday in an area of Germany with low CV rates. She was irresponsible/selfish?
There are so many similar examples and the absolutism of some posters in condemning people without consideration for individual circumstances is indeed not a good look imho.
If you’re London based on 21:42 - Dec 19 by Keaneish
But that would be placing a lot of faith in the good of human nature and the intelligence of people, which we both no are inherently flawed concepts. So, on a practical level, how do you enforce millions of people fleeing a metropolis without complete anarchy or martial law!? This situation is horrendous and the solutions seem so flawed, don’t they?
"human nature and the intelligence of people, which we both no are inherently flawed concepts."
Cracking irony, Gromit!
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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If you’re London based on 22:39 - Dec 19 with 2302 views
If you’re London based on 22:27 - Dec 19 by bluelagos
I have a lot of sympathy for your position Vapers. A lot of people are very quick to criticise others with no insight into what may be behind their decisions. It is the certainty of "doing x or doing y is wrong and makes that person stupid/selfish" that annoys me.
Mate of mine lost his Dad in April. His mum had to nominate just 7 mourners for the funeral. When he went he couldn't hug his mum as they were the rules. I told him to do what he wanted and not feel duty bound by the rules.
A single mum I know struggling to work, educate her child and come August she opted to visit her mother for a holiday in an area of Germany with low CV rates. She was irresponsible/selfish?
There are so many similar examples and the absolutism of some posters in condemning people without consideration for individual circumstances is indeed not a good look imho.
That's a bit like Frimley's situation where you just need to do what is right for you.
As for the second example, those aren't the type of people we are talking about. If you look at my post above I deliberately said the majority of people, not everyone.
We are criticising those who took a holiday abroad because they always take a holiday abroad. There will always be exceptions but the vast majority could have survived a year with no foreign holiday. That is the point IMO. It's like ripping off a plaster. We could do it quickly or we could do it slowly. A two month total lockdown starting December 27th would ripping the plaster off IMO. Under the current system we get a bit of it off, try and restick it down, then take a bit off, then try and stick a bit more down etc etc.
The more people do the less it will spread and the quicker the vaccines can get us back to normal.
If you’re London based on 22:17 - Dec 19 by vapour_trail
Everybody knows an arsehole.
The data overwhelmingly supports the view that the virus has spread through children in schools and then onwards.
Sticking firmly to the data and not the rest of the thread, do you have a study which shows this?
I don't doubt that secondary schools are a significant vector of transmission and probably should have been closed if the only concern was transmission of C19 but I would be interested in reading any study.
It's also noticeable that schools were open all lockdown and cases generally fell yet once everything is open they surge again. Obviously there is a new strain but there is a correlation there. Of course it's important to remember that correlation doesn't mean causation.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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If you’re London based on 22:45 - Dec 19 with 2281 views
If you’re London based on 22:39 - Dec 19 by J2BLUE
That's a bit like Frimley's situation where you just need to do what is right for you.
As for the second example, those aren't the type of people we are talking about. If you look at my post above I deliberately said the majority of people, not everyone.
We are criticising those who took a holiday abroad because they always take a holiday abroad. There will always be exceptions but the vast majority could have survived a year with no foreign holiday. That is the point IMO. It's like ripping off a plaster. We could do it quickly or we could do it slowly. A two month total lockdown starting December 27th would ripping the plaster off IMO. Under the current system we get a bit of it off, try and restick it down, then take a bit off, then try and stick a bit more down etc etc.
The more people do the less it will spread and the quicker the vaccines can get us back to normal.
And photos like these over the past few days highlighting the point that the majority taking risks aren't faced with a huge moral dilemma about a one-off life & death situation like Frimley is.
If you’re London based on 22:45 - Dec 19 by Ryorry
And photos like these over the past few days highlighting the point that the majority taking risks aren't faced with a huge moral dilemma about a one-off life & death situation like Frimley is.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 22:55]
Bloody hell. I'd have taken one look at that lot and gone straight home!
If you’re London based on 22:39 - Dec 19 by J2BLUE
That's a bit like Frimley's situation where you just need to do what is right for you.
As for the second example, those aren't the type of people we are talking about. If you look at my post above I deliberately said the majority of people, not everyone.
We are criticising those who took a holiday abroad because they always take a holiday abroad. There will always be exceptions but the vast majority could have survived a year with no foreign holiday. That is the point IMO. It's like ripping off a plaster. We could do it quickly or we could do it slowly. A two month total lockdown starting December 27th would ripping the plaster off IMO. Under the current system we get a bit of it off, try and restick it down, then take a bit off, then try and stick a bit more down etc etc.
The more people do the less it will spread and the quicker the vaccines can get us back to normal.
It is the use of 'some people' 'majority' 'many' that makes all the difference and I have no issue with that as that is just a line that we can argue about.
Like I say, it is the absolutist positions that I have an issue with.
If you’re London based on 22:45 - Dec 19 by Ryorry
And photos like these over the past few days highlighting the point that the majority taking risks aren't faced with a huge moral dilemma about a one-off life & death situation like Frimley is.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 22:55]
Where are the anti-BLM/XR lot condemning these people? Ambulances can't get through! Or maybe they can now, who knows.
[Post edited 19 Dec 2020 22:57]
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
I don't really understand twitter so is the guy taking the video a journo filming people leaving London or is he a hypocrite filming people leaving whilst leaving himself? If he's not a journo or an employee of a shop/ cafe at St. Pancras he's part of the problem too.
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