| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... 08:29 - Jun 8 with 18960 views | itfcjoe |
....according to the Times today.
Just seems so pointless to carry on as we are, when things are basically unlocked and it no doubt spreading quickly compared to how things change at June 21st.
Just sack off international travel for the year, end the lockdown and get the country vaccinated.
I'm just so bored of it all now, especially when such a vast %age of the population is vaccinated. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:38 - Jun 8 with 1440 views | farkenhell |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:10 - Jun 8 by Ely_Blue |
The only people who are being hospitalised after having 2 jabs seem to be those who only recently received their 2nd dose, it takes around 3 weeks post 2nd jab to build up full immunity/protection and I am lead to believe that is the reason behind possibly delaying by a couple of weeks - to ensure all the over 50s have got a 2nd jab and have that crucial 3 week period to build up protection |
Thank you for clarifying this (having had my 2nd jab last week). |  | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:39 - Jun 8 with 1442 views | Cotty |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:19 - Jun 8 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
I get the concern that cases are rising but this now is all about breaking the link between number of cases and hospitalisation and deaths ie we live with it much like we do with flu and other viruses.
Cases were expected to rise after the last easing it’s been factored in. If we break the link between hospitalisations and deaths we are making real progress and can be much more confident about opening up but that requires more vaccinations though and quickly - it literally is a race.
Someone mentioned that people are still being hospitalised after 2 vaccinations, that may be true but if you look at the North West numbers that number is incredibly low and I believe they are not seriously ill. We know you can still catch the virus even if fully vaccinated.
At some point we have to find the comfort point of living with the virus but opening up for a huge number of social, well being and economic reasons. |
Most people do not have 2 vaccinations yet. |  | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:39 - Jun 8 with 1434 views | 26_Paz |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:35 - Jun 8 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
My wife’s hospital trust covering 3 major London hospitals has 4 patients currently.
Not dismissing the significance of COVID but vaccinations do appear at least for now to be slowing down serious illness and hospitalisations.
Push back 21 June by all means but Boris please message it probably about aims for vaccinations and life thereafter. |
Just my view but I’d do a kind of ‘June 21st Lite’ keep the real high risk stuff like nightclubs closed for a bit longer and maybe relax other stuff rather than completely delay it. Things like outdoor sports stadiums … allow a higher % of capacity in. Rule of 6 indoors, maybe make rule of 12 for a few weeks.
Given still relatively low numbers I think we can take foot off a bit but recognise going whole way may be a bit far in view of Indian variant. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:40 - Jun 8 with 1435 views | TractorCam |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:33 - Jun 8 by eireblue |
Alternatively, based on previous experience and past mistakes that have caused deaths:
What you could do is wait a little bit longer to see if you have an exponentially growing issue. And what the impact is.
Or, I guess you could go with Johnson who was happy to delay, and risk letting bodies pile high. Which they did.
Me, I would rather go with scientific data, than with the decision making of an incompetent that has resulted in tens of thousands of horrible deaths. |
What scientific data?
The one that says vaccines work against the delta variant?
The daily figures where hospitalisations and deaths remain really low?
Or even on this board, the various posts on this thread where people talking about their low hospital figures? |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:40 - Jun 8 with 1430 views | farkenhell |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:02 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
The issue is the number of new cases is rising. That means the virus is growing and will continue to do so. From a low base yeah, but that doesn't mean it stops. And opening up further (E.g. Nightclubs, festivals) will mean that growth rate increases.
On the plus side, most of our most vulnerable are now vaccinated/protected.
For me, the issue is we have been told the vaccinations are the answer when it appears they are anything but. The virus can still spread, you can still get ill (albeit less likely to die), the hospitals can still get over run, and every time it's passed on you get another mutation.
So it looks like the numbers dictate we hold off until more of us are vaccinated - or risk yet another stricter lockdown later on.
For me - the current restrictions are so much better than the tighter ones. Yeah the final steps/relaxations would be nice - but at the price of having to take three steps back again in a few months? If delaying it a few weeks is the price, so be it. |
This, particularly the final paragraph, sums it up perfectly for me. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:41 - Jun 8 with 1430 views | TractorCam |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:39 - Jun 8 by Cotty |
Most people do not have 2 vaccinations yet. |
The people who are most at risk of getting complications from COVID do. | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:43 - Jun 8 with 1412 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:39 - Jun 8 by Cotty |
Most people do not have 2 vaccinations yet. |
And yet hospitalisations and deaths are low…….
Breaking the link between case numbers and serious illness and death is what this all about now.
Once we do that we have to simply live with it because we won’t eradicate it any time soon. |  | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:44 - Jun 8 with 1404 views | Ely_Blue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:41 - Jun 8 by TractorCam |
The people who are most at risk of getting complications from COVID do. |
Not quite, I believe this is one of the main reasons for the govt wanting to move the dates by a couple of weeks, to allow all of the groups 1-9 (down to over 50s) to have a 2nd jab and crucially for that 3 week period for it to be fully effective- this is the key part most people seem to be ignoring, they think they have 2 jabs so they are invincible |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:44 - Jun 8 with 1403 views | eireblue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:36 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Newsflash - you will be going with the decision making of an incompetent that has resulted in tens of thousands of horrible deaths and his view of the science |
Johnson went against the advice of scientific advise before, why do you think he won't do it again?
Johnson may have a "view". That isn't the same as following the science.
And why trust someone's view, when they are happy to let bodies pile high, and have repeatedly delayed in the past? |  | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:44 - Jun 8 with 1404 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:39 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Just my view but I’d do a kind of ‘June 21st Lite’ keep the real high risk stuff like nightclubs closed for a bit longer and maybe relax other stuff rather than completely delay it. Things like outdoor sports stadiums … allow a higher % of capacity in. Rule of 6 indoors, maybe make rule of 12 for a few weeks.
Given still relatively low numbers I think we can take foot off a bit but recognise going whole way may be a bit far in view of Indian variant. |
I think think a fudge and compromise is on the cards. Which is fine. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:45 - Jun 8 with 1390 views | farkenhell |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:40 - Jun 8 by TractorCam |
What scientific data?
The one that says vaccines work against the delta variant?
The daily figures where hospitalisations and deaths remain really low?
Or even on this board, the various posts on this thread where people talking about their low hospital figures? |
Per Stokie's comments in this thread. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:45 - Jun 8 with 1391 views | itfcjoe |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:39 - Jun 8 by Cotty |
Most people do not have 2 vaccinations yet. |
Most in those groups who ended up in hospital last time have done.
Hospital admission rates are at around 1 per 100,000 for the population as a whole, the age group where most are testing positive are school age children who won't be being jabbed, and those in Year 12 up to age 24, who also won't be being jabbed. | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:47 - Jun 8 with 1376 views | StokieBlue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:32 - Jun 8 by clive_baker |
I would be interested to see the evolution of those hospitalisations vs. cases, and also who is being hospitalised. There doesn't appear much info on that, although I heard a politician say 'very few double dosed are in hospital'. Would be interesting to see the data. |
Exactly.
However because C19 data is by it's nature quite laggy we won't be able to compile that data for a few weeks at least. That is why the decision needs to be made in a few weeks time based on the actual data rather than made now based on a politically ideal roadmap created before the Delta variant was around.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:47 - Jun 8 with 1371 views | itfcjoe |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:44 - Jun 8 by eireblue |
Johnson went against the advice of scientific advise before, why do you think he won't do it again?
Johnson may have a "view". That isn't the same as following the science.
And why trust someone's view, when they are happy to let bodies pile high, and have repeatedly delayed in the past? |
Where have I said I trust it? | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:48 - Jun 8 with 1373 views | eireblue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:40 - Jun 8 by TractorCam |
What scientific data?
The one that says vaccines work against the delta variant?
The daily figures where hospitalisations and deaths remain really low?
Or even on this board, the various posts on this thread where people talking about their low hospital figures? |
The mathematics of exponential growth.
Are you forgetting that Johnson has made this mistake before?
You need a certain amount of data to understand if there will be exponential growth, and not a steady state.
Hence why the scientists all recommend taking a data approach. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:48 - Jun 8 with 1373 views | Herbivore |
15 months in and a lot of people have learnt nothing about the pandemic it seems. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:50 - Jun 8 with 1350 views | Guthrum |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:30 - Jun 8 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
It’s not about me, there are millions of people still suffering economic hardships (see hospitality industry) not to mention the mental well being of individuals and the nation.
I’m not saying we should unlock on 21 June a couple of more weeks might be sufficient to really get on top of this but i think some balanced perspective around the debate is only right. The alarming references to people with 2 vaccinations being hospitalised for example needs balance. |
The economic angle is a government matter. They need to insist to the Treasury that relief measures continue (and indemnify the minister from criticism).
The mental health aspect is made worse by the continual - dashed - promises of early release. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:51 - Jun 8 with 1343 views | StokieBlue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:45 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Most in those groups who ended up in hospital last time have done.
Hospital admission rates are at around 1 per 100,000 for the population as a whole, the age group where most are testing positive are school age children who won't be being jabbed, and those in Year 12 up to age 24, who also won't be being jabbed. |
Once again though that data is pretty irrelevant if you want to see the actual picture, the R is now above 1 across the whole country from modelling (and quite substantially above 1 in some areas) so given the time it takes for C19 to infect and then affect the host the numbers in 2 or 3 weeks are the ones that are important, not the numbers today.
That is why a short delay should be provisioned to get all the data. Nobody is saying cancel the grand opening but lets do it based on data and not sentiment.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:52 - Jun 8 with 1333 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:48 - Jun 8 by Herbivore |
15 months in and a lot of people have learnt nothing about the pandemic it seems. |
Including the so-called 'government'.
But to be fair, who could have predicted that leaving the border open to a country with a rampant variant would have this type of consequence? |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:52 - Jun 8 with 1322 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:45 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Most in those groups who ended up in hospital last time have done.
Hospital admission rates are at around 1 per 100,000 for the population as a whole, the age group where most are testing positive are school age children who won't be being jabbed, and those in Year 12 up to age 24, who also won't be being jabbed. |
But equally they are the ones (if otherwise healthy) most unlikely to be ill, need to be hospitalised or die. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:54 - Jun 8 with 1292 views | footers |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:48 - Jun 8 by Herbivore |
15 months in and a lot of people have learnt nothing about the pandemic it seems. |
Yep. I don't know what it is people actually want with the current set-up being more or less what we had before - what do people want to do that they can't do already? Just more childish impatience and selfishness. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:55 - Jun 8 with 1291 views | homer_123 |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:44 - Jun 8 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
I think think a fudge and compromise is on the cards. Which is fine. |
Yeah - I mean, we've no evidence or track record of the Gov being slow to act/ not acting properly based on the data and then that coming back to bite us in the arse at all. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:58 - Jun 8 with 1256 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:55 - Jun 8 by homer_123 |
Yeah - I mean, we've no evidence or track record of the Gov being slow to act/ not acting properly based on the data and then that coming back to bite us in the arse at all. |
They're doing everything they can to get us back to some sort of a 'normal' life ASAP. | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:58 - Jun 8 with 1255 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:50 - Jun 8 by Guthrum |
The economic angle is a government matter. They need to insist to the Treasury that relief measures continue (and indemnify the minister from criticism).
The mental health aspect is made worse by the continual - dashed - promises of early release. |
But the cost of relief measures is a huge economic burden isn’t it? | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:59 - Jun 8 with 1247 views | eireblue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:47 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
Where have I said I trust it? |
I didn't, forgive my rhetorical nature and phrasing, if it was too pointed.
My post was more about your addendum on the "NewsFlash"
You added the phrase "and his view of the science"
That is fairly meaningless when applied to Johnson. | | | |
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