| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... 08:29 - Jun 8 with 18973 views | itfcjoe |
....according to the Times today.
Just seems so pointless to carry on as we are, when things are basically unlocked and it no doubt spreading quickly compared to how things change at June 21st.
Just sack off international travel for the year, end the lockdown and get the country vaccinated.
I'm just so bored of it all now, especially when such a vast %age of the population is vaccinated. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:19 - Jun 8 with 978 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 08:39 - Jun 8 by Cotty |
Cases are currently doubling every 10 days or so. It doesn't take a mathematician to figure where we're going to be in a month's time if nothing is done. If cases are rising, they are rising exponentially, and if that is the case, we need to do something fast to curb the spread. Studies have shown that you really need the second jab to have decent protection against the delta variant, it's a race against time to get second jabs into people, and currently it's clear that it's a race that we're currently losing. |
I get the concern that cases are rising but this now is all about breaking the link between number of cases and hospitalisation and deaths ie we live with it much like we do with flu and other viruses.
Cases were expected to rise after the last easing it’s been factored in. If we break the link between hospitalisations and deaths we are making real progress and can be much more confident about opening up but that requires more vaccinations though and quickly - it literally is a race.
Someone mentioned that people are still being hospitalised after 2 vaccinations, that may be true but if you look at the North West numbers that number is incredibly low and I believe they are not seriously ill. We know you can still catch the virus even if fully vaccinated.
At some point we have to find the comfort point of living with the virus but opening up for a huge number of social, well being and economic reasons. |  | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:19 - Jun 8 with 977 views | hype313 |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:15 - Jun 8 by Ftnfwest |
Just kicking the can down the road, viruses develop mutations, that will go on for years. The vulnerable are vaccinated (aside from those who have chosen not to be). What NZ and Aussies have done for instance is admirable (albeit with tiny original case numbers) but they seem to be backing themselves into a corner of isolation by aiming at essentially zero covid. The minute they have a couple of cases they lock down, which i can't square with international travel there ever being back to anything like normal. |
There's a lot of dry wood for Covid to burn through in Australia and NZ, Melbourne has already seen the Indian variant take hold and their vaccination drive is going at a snails pace.
If it takes hold, then Australia, despite all it's efforts, will resemble all of us in Europe from last year. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:20 - Jun 8 with 961 views | LeoMuff |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:15 - Jun 8 by TractorCam |
Hardly a shock is it though, virus mutates and cases go up when things open up more, it's not surprising.
The numbers for hospitalisations/ deaths give no reason to extend a lockdown period. My main reason for this is there's no guarantee you can say that delaying for a few weeks will make everything crystal in a few months.
The vaccines are working and over 50% including the majority of vulnerable have been fully vaccinated. This road map has worked a treat, one of few things they've got right regarding the pandemic. |
Is the risk that if we return to normal the delta virus will push up cases in the unvaccinated and we run the risk of further mutations which have the possibility of rendering vaccines in effective? |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:21 - Jun 8 with 961 views | Ely_Blue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:13 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
"For me, the issue is we have been told the vaccinations are the answer when it appears they are anything but. The virus can still spread, you can still get ill (albeit less likely to die), the hospitals can still get over run, and every time it's passed on you get another mutation."
They are the answer. As soon as you reach a certain level (90% vaccinated would be nice) the fact that they reduce the chance of spread means that it's much harder for the virus to infect people. As we stand there are still a lot of vectors which allow the virus to spread.
We need to really push to get the vaccinations up to a level where we need them although there might be issues with some people not wanting it.
SB |
Personally a key point on the vaccination journey for me would be to vaccinate the worst spreaders, the kids.
The schools will be where the virus gets transmitted more because essentially you have 30+ households mixing on a daily basis as a bare minimum. Break that chain with some sort of immunisation program amongst kids and you’ll see cases drop quickly |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:21 - Jun 8 with 956 views | homer_123 |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 08:43 - Jun 8 by Kieran_Knows |
So what do we do then? Continually spend the next god knows how long in and out of lockdowns ... because our clusterf**k of a Government cannot get the basics right? |
Quite possibly because Covid is here to stay and will continue to mutate - regardless of approach.
Take Thailand - they were managing quite well, few cases etc etc and are now in big trouble. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:22 - Jun 8 with 950 views | StokieBlue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:19 - Jun 8 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
I get the concern that cases are rising but this now is all about breaking the link between number of cases and hospitalisation and deaths ie we live with it much like we do with flu and other viruses.
Cases were expected to rise after the last easing it’s been factored in. If we break the link between hospitalisations and deaths we are making real progress and can be much more confident about opening up but that requires more vaccinations though and quickly - it literally is a race.
Someone mentioned that people are still being hospitalised after 2 vaccinations, that may be true but if you look at the North West numbers that number is incredibly low and I believe they are not seriously ill. We know you can still catch the virus even if fully vaccinated.
At some point we have to find the comfort point of living with the virus but opening up for a huge number of social, well being and economic reasons. |
We are barely locked down at the moment.
Can you give an example of something you really must do on the 21st June which you can't do at the moment and that would be awful if you had to wait another couple of weeks?
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:24 - Jun 8 with 912 views | 26_Paz |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:18 - Jun 8 by clive_baker |
Does anyone have any idea how many people are hospitalised at the moment from Covid? My wife's hospital is pretty much empty. I appreciate cases are rising, but if they're among younger people who it's typically less dangerous for, and the vaccine is proving effective at keeping those vaccinated safe, then is there really a mandate for remaining in a lockdown?
Having said that, practically speaking (and somewhat selfishly) I'm not sure what will actually change on 21st June. It would be nice, symbolically I guess, to 'end lockdown', but in reality I'm not sure what freedoms it would allow us that we would actually benefit from in that period that we don't already have. I appreciate everyone's circumstances are different, but personally I don't think it would make much difference. |
Circa 900 in hospital in the whole country. |  |
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| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:24 - Jun 8 with 925 views | Bloots |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:18 - Jun 8 by clive_baker |
Does anyone have any idea how many people are hospitalised at the moment from Covid? My wife's hospital is pretty much empty. I appreciate cases are rising, but if they're among younger people who it's typically less dangerous for, and the vaccine is proving effective at keeping those vaccinated safe, then is there really a mandate for remaining in a lockdown?
Having said that, practically speaking (and somewhat selfishly) I'm not sure what will actually change on 21st June. It would be nice, symbolically I guess, to 'end lockdown', but in reality I'm not sure what freedoms it would allow us that we would actually benefit from in that period that we don't already have. I appreciate everyone's circumstances are different, but personally I don't think it would make much difference. |
....without a mask on.
That seems to be the main driver. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:24 - Jun 8 with 916 views | Ely_Blue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:22 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
We are barely locked down at the moment.
Can you give an example of something you really must do on the 21st June which you can't do at the moment and that would be awful if you had to wait another couple of weeks?
SB |
This exactly, I don’t see ques of people outside shops and pubs as we have done, I don’t see anything other than some leisure activities where there are restricted numbers such as sporting events etc being affected.
Provided that those business that are suffering are able to get government support I don’t see the issue with delaying the final stage of unlocking to save the country in the long run | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:26 - Jun 8 with 908 views | StokieBlue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:24 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Circa 900 in hospital in the whole country. |
An irrelevant number at the moment because the data is a "laggy" indicator. We will know more in two weeks which is why the government should be making their decision based on the data at that point rather than now based on an arbitrary date.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:26 - Jun 8 with 891 views | TractorCam |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:20 - Jun 8 by LeoMuff |
Is the risk that if we return to normal the delta virus will push up cases in the unvaccinated and we run the risk of further mutations which have the possibility of rendering vaccines in effective? |
Well I should hope not, because the delta variant won't be going anywhere today, June 21st or September. If that's the worry then we may as well stay indoors forever. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:27 - Jun 8 with 886 views | hype313 |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:22 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
We are barely locked down at the moment.
Can you give an example of something you really must do on the 21st June which you can't do at the moment and that would be awful if you had to wait another couple of weeks?
SB |
That's a good point, but equally there are many thousands of businesses such as the Wedding industry and thousands in the hospitality sector that still can't open as they can't adhere to the social distancing rules due to size. | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:28 - Jun 8 with 867 views | footers |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:26 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
An irrelevant number at the moment because the data is a "laggy" indicator. We will know more in two weeks which is why the government should be making their decision based on the data at that point rather than now based on an arbitrary date.
SB |
Ah, but there is the problem, Stokie - we have a government that's obsessed with media presentation and fixed dates rather than data. VE Day went well, didn't it? |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:28 - Jun 8 with 865 views | SomethingBlue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:15 - Jun 8 by Ely_Blue |
So are you saying you think the people who returned from India followed the amber guidelines? |
Not all of them no, and the government will have known many wouldn't, so it could have made things more difficult much sooner. Then we probably wouldn't have been having this conversation. But instead there was a trade deal to do. |  |
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| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:29 - Jun 8 with 859 views | clive_baker |
| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:24 - Jun 8 by Bloots |
....without a mask on.
That seems to be the main driver. |
Quite.
It feels to me like the sentiment around 'ending restrictions' is more of a thing than any of the actual underlying freedoms it will allow us. IF the data suggests its the right course of action, then I don't see why we wouldn't take it. I appreciate that's a selfish way of me looking at it, no doubt there are people waiting on wedding numbers and people wanting to go to Wimbledon and whatever else is potentially compromised, but generally speaking we're a long way to being 'unlocked' anyway. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:30 - Jun 8 with 846 views | Guthrum |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 08:43 - Jun 8 by Kieran_Knows |
So what do we do then? Continually spend the next god knows how long in and out of lockdowns ... because our clusterf**k of a Government cannot get the basics right? |
That's the nature of pandemics. The Black Death/Plague kept coming back for centuries, wave after wave every few years.
People - including business leaders who fund political parties - are unrealistically impatient (in epidemiological terms) for things to return to normal and the government's reactions are driven by that as much as the science. |  |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:30 - Jun 8 with 850 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:22 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
We are barely locked down at the moment.
Can you give an example of something you really must do on the 21st June which you can't do at the moment and that would be awful if you had to wait another couple of weeks?
SB |
It’s not about me, there are millions of people still suffering economic hardships (see hospitality industry) not to mention the mental well being of individuals and the nation.
I’m not saying we should unlock on 21 June a couple of more weeks might be sufficient to really get on top of this but i think some balanced perspective around the debate is only right. The alarming references to people with 2 vaccinations being hospitalised for example needs balance. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:32 - Jun 8 with 825 views | clive_baker |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:26 - Jun 8 by StokieBlue |
An irrelevant number at the moment because the data is a "laggy" indicator. We will know more in two weeks which is why the government should be making their decision based on the data at that point rather than now based on an arbitrary date.
SB |
I would be interested to see the evolution of those hospitalisations vs. cases, and also who is being hospitalised. There doesn't appear much info on that, although I heard a politician say 'very few double dosed are in hospital'. Would be interesting to see the data. | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:33 - Jun 8 with 815 views | Ely_Blue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:30 - Jun 8 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
It’s not about me, there are millions of people still suffering economic hardships (see hospitality industry) not to mention the mental well being of individuals and the nation.
I’m not saying we should unlock on 21 June a couple of more weeks might be sufficient to really get on top of this but i think some balanced perspective around the debate is only right. The alarming references to people with 2 vaccinations being hospitalised for example needs balance. |
Again the info on people with 2 vaccinations also leads to showing that these people are only recently in receipt of the 2nd dose, there is around a 3 week period post 2nd jab to build up immunity | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:33 - Jun 8 with 814 views | eireblue |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:26 - Jun 8 by TractorCam |
Well I should hope not, because the delta variant won't be going anywhere today, June 21st or September. If that's the worry then we may as well stay indoors forever. |
Alternatively, based on previous experience and past mistakes that have caused deaths:
What you could do is wait a little bit longer to see if you have an exponentially growing issue. And what the impact is.
Or, I guess you could go with Johnson who was happy to delay, and risk letting bodies pile high. Which they did.
Me, I would rather go with scientific data, than with the decision making of an incompetent that has resulted in tens of thousands of horrible deaths. |  | | |
| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:35 - Jun 8 with 815 views | itfcjoe |
| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:29 - Jun 8 by clive_baker |
Quite.
It feels to me like the sentiment around 'ending restrictions' is more of a thing than any of the actual underlying freedoms it will allow us. IF the data suggests its the right course of action, then I don't see why we wouldn't take it. I appreciate that's a selfish way of me looking at it, no doubt there are people waiting on wedding numbers and people wanting to go to Wimbledon and whatever else is potentially compromised, but generally speaking we're a long way to being 'unlocked' anyway. |
I don't disagree with that, there is very little I can't do......but the further it slides, the closer it gets to things like live sports, live music, further disruption for hospitality venues and it's hard to see what the upside to it all is | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:35 - Jun 8 with 816 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:18 - Jun 8 by clive_baker |
Does anyone have any idea how many people are hospitalised at the moment from Covid? My wife's hospital is pretty much empty. I appreciate cases are rising, but if they're among younger people who it's typically less dangerous for, and the vaccine is proving effective at keeping those vaccinated safe, then is there really a mandate for remaining in a lockdown?
Having said that, practically speaking (and somewhat selfishly) I'm not sure what will actually change on 21st June. It would be nice, symbolically I guess, to 'end lockdown', but in reality I'm not sure what freedoms it would allow us that we would actually benefit from in that period that we don't already have. I appreciate everyone's circumstances are different, but personally I don't think it would make much difference. |
My wife’s hospital trust covering 3 major London hospitals has 4 patients currently.
Not dismissing the significance of COVID but vaccinations do appear at least for now to be slowing down serious illness and hospitalisations.
Push back 21 June by all means but Boris please message it probably about aims for vaccinations and life thereafter. | | | |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:36 - Jun 8 with 791 views | itfcjoe |
| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:33 - Jun 8 by eireblue |
Alternatively, based on previous experience and past mistakes that have caused deaths:
What you could do is wait a little bit longer to see if you have an exponentially growing issue. And what the impact is.
Or, I guess you could go with Johnson who was happy to delay, and risk letting bodies pile high. Which they did.
Me, I would rather go with scientific data, than with the decision making of an incompetent that has resulted in tens of thousands of horrible deaths. |
Newsflash - you will be going with the decision making of an incompetent that has resulted in tens of thousands of horrible deaths and his view of the science | |
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| End of lockdown being pushed back 2 weeks... on 09:37 - Jun 8 with 776 views | usm |
All of these dates were always the "earliest" dates, as far as I recall. So, knocking it back should not be a shock or surprise to anyone, although clearly, everyone wants a "target" date to work towards. |  |
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| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:37 - Jun 8 with 775 views | clive_baker |
| You can stand at the bar..... on 09:35 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
I don't disagree with that, there is very little I can't do......but the further it slides, the closer it gets to things like live sports, live music, further disruption for hospitality venues and it's hard to see what the upside to it all is |
Yeah that's true and it's easy to be selfish about it, if I had a wedding venue I hired out I'm sure I would have different thoughts and be wondering why a pub can have 100 people inside it but my venue can't.
If restrictions are still in place when the football season starts then that's when I'll properly lose it. | |
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