| Last season vs this season for Cook 06:33 - Oct 31 with 14701 views | itfcjoe |
Last season
P16 W4 D7 L5 - 19 points
This season
P15 W5 D5 L5 - 20 points
Wycombe away to come on Tuesday. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 7:56]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:06 - Oct 31 with 1030 views | Dennyx4 |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 08:08 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
Plymouth missed 2 sitters - the one where Jeohcott broke early and the one where Hardie was in on the left and Walton made a very good save
Their xG was higher than ours yesterday - 1.39 vs 1.28 - so the game was close but as fans we seem to look at the chances we missed and ignore the good chances they had |
Not really sure how they get those xG ratings?
And may be too low for both sides, but I would have the Bonne chance at the beginning of the game as 0.8 or higher on its own.
Not sure if the system allows for the keeper not being in the goal, and just looks at where the chance has been taken from? But, I would expect 8 or 9 of chances out of 10 like that to be a goal.
Thought that was by far the best chance in the game, including the goals scored for both sides. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 12:07]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:11 - Oct 31 with 1009 views | footers |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:04 - Oct 31 by wkj |
There we go - someone with a real go-getter attitude making go-getter suggestions. |
He's a man for all seasons (especially 21/22). Not only a top quality manager but can also teach you anything you'd ever want to know about keeping chickens. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:14 - Oct 31 with 1003 views | itfcjoe |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:49 - Oct 31 by wkj |
It's a shame that Joe tends to cherry-pick that he replies to, and ignores people/comments he deems unworthy. This question is a very good question.
You have a lot you don't like about Cook Joe - and trust us, we get it. Instead of highlighting the never-ending drool strand of sadness - how would you fix it and with who? |
I didn’t realise I was obliged to reply to every post - I do a far fairer job of engaging with more people on here without prejudice than most do.
Personally, I think we need to exhaust the Cook option a bit further, but not much and would be looking to recruit a manager more able to work within a more modern footballing structure - experienced as working alongside a recruitment team and not needing someone to lead that as felt Cook was having to do this summer.
There are plenty out there, I do think it is strange that people are so wedded when it isn’t a great leap to suggest that with this squad it really wouldn’t take much to improve them when we seem to fail the same way most times we leave Portman Road. People bemoan bad luck when we’ve certainly had our fair share of good luck too | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:16 - Oct 31 with 993 views | wkj |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:11 - Oct 31 by footers |
He's a man for all seasons (especially 21/22). Not only a top quality manager but can also teach you anything you'd ever want to know about keeping chickens. |
Oh without a doubt. Had we got Holloway in much sooner I have no doubt we'd be spanking Young Boys in the champion's league. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:17 - Oct 31 with 984 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:06 - Oct 31 by Dennyx4 |
Not really sure how they get those xG ratings?
And may be too low for both sides, but I would have the Bonne chance at the beginning of the game as 0.8 or higher on its own.
Not sure if the system allows for the keeper not being in the goal, and just looks at where the chance has been taken from? But, I would expect 8 or 9 of chances out of 10 like that to be a goal.
Thought that was by far the best chance in the game, including the goals scored for both sides. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 12:07]
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Afaik most xG just considers where you strike the ball from and doesn't make allowances for where the keeper is. Their first goal was very very high xG (because it's a yard out), Bonne's is much lower because lots of shots from around the penalty spot get blocked, saved, put wide, even if not usually when the keeper is out of the picture. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:19 - Oct 31 with 978 views | Dennyx4 |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:17 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
Afaik most xG just considers where you strike the ball from and doesn't make allowances for where the keeper is. Their first goal was very very high xG (because it's a yard out), Bonne's is much lower because lots of shots from around the penalty spot get blocked, saved, put wide, even if not usually when the keeper is out of the picture. |
Thanks for clarifying, so has its faults as a stat, as most do. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 12:19]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:24 - Oct 31 with 962 views | StokieBlue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:14 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
I didn’t realise I was obliged to reply to every post - I do a far fairer job of engaging with more people on here without prejudice than most do.
Personally, I think we need to exhaust the Cook option a bit further, but not much and would be looking to recruit a manager more able to work within a more modern footballing structure - experienced as working alongside a recruitment team and not needing someone to lead that as felt Cook was having to do this summer.
There are plenty out there, I do think it is strange that people are so wedded when it isn’t a great leap to suggest that with this squad it really wouldn’t take much to improve them when we seem to fail the same way most times we leave Portman Road. People bemoan bad luck when we’ve certainly had our fair share of good luck too |
How much further is "a bit further"? I ask because if you're going to have opening posts which show stats based over a largish number of games then surely the data in those stats isn't going to change unless there are enough matches to shift the average? Otherwise you can essentially post the same thing for the next few matches regardless of the results.
Out of interest, could you name some of the "plenty out there"? I am interested to know what type of level/manager we think is realistic given our current ambitions. Cook was seen as pretty much seen as the best available manager in the lower divisions so I assume it's either someone up and coming or someone who usually managers at a higher level?
I don't think Cook is doing a great job, it would be very hard for anyone to argue he is. I do also think we are moving in the right direction and realistically on another day we would have drawn or won yesterday. Clearly the next few matches are absolutely vital but won't make a huge difference to the stats in your opening post either way.
Do we think he has to go if we lose 2 of the next 4 against promotion contenders?
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:53 - Oct 31 with 892 views | istanblue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 07:20 - Oct 31 by DinnernotTea |
So scoring every single game and becoming the leagues top scorers isn't viewed as a positive (when was the last time that happened)? Of course league position wise we should be better but we do the hardest part of football easy, scoring goals. For that reason alone he needs a minimum until May. Because of a fair few reasons he hasn't been able to play his best back 5 game after game either, until this happens we won't know if we can close the door a bit more.
The play of Donacien, Aluko, Burns, Chaplin, Bonne has been incredible and I want more of it. |
More spin than Alastair Campbell |  | | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:59 - Oct 31 with 884 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:14 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
I didn’t realise I was obliged to reply to every post - I do a far fairer job of engaging with more people on here without prejudice than most do.
Personally, I think we need to exhaust the Cook option a bit further, but not much and would be looking to recruit a manager more able to work within a more modern footballing structure - experienced as working alongside a recruitment team and not needing someone to lead that as felt Cook was having to do this summer.
There are plenty out there, I do think it is strange that people are so wedded when it isn’t a great leap to suggest that with this squad it really wouldn’t take much to improve them when we seem to fail the same way most times we leave Portman Road. People bemoan bad luck when we’ve certainly had our fair share of good luck too |
I don’t believe there is a single Town fan who doesn’t want Paul Cook to succeed. The reason being that we all want the club to succeed. No one want to see our decline continue.
To my mind we started the season unprepared for what was to come. The fixture list was favorable with the first 10 games mostly against teams not expected to be promotion challengers.
Perhaps Paul Cook was too involved in building the squad rather than building the team. Having one of the least experienced coaching team in League 1 hasn’t helped but that was PC’s choice.
Looking at yesterday and the illness of players. Had Burns been able to start and then get injured early on it is difficult to imagine he would have brought a left sided full back as substitute.
PC needs to start making the kind of progress everyone, including himself thinks he is capable of, as things stand Gamechanger are getting a poor return for the time and money invested in Paul Cook. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:20 - Oct 31 with 846 views | Guthrum |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:34 - Oct 31 by itfcjoe |
Also an argument that the powers that ve should be trying to implement a structure and football club that is ‘manager-proof’ - being in a position where if the manager is failing you can change him and his direct staff without it feeling like the biggest deal ever.
I assume that is where we will end up, and Cook just a necessary evil to try and lead us to the league above whilst that is put in place….but if he doesn’t get results then the process may need to be expedited |
That is an ideal, but quite difficult in an industry where individual personalities have so much influence upon the makeup and approach of the team. Even if it's not the manager himself, that merely gets transferred up the chain to the Director of Football, Recruitment or whatever.
Not unachievable, tho. Watford got to a stage where they can cycle through managers with astonishing frequency, but maintain a reasonable level of success rather than inducing chaos. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:30 - Oct 31 with 822 views | DJR |
It seems to me that the main failing we have is an inability to control games. Without that, we will always be vulnerable to conceding goals. It is easy to put all our failings down to the defence, or defensive errors, but the defence relies on the rest of the team to take the pressure off it. To my mind, playing effectively only two in midfield makes it very difficult to control games for long periods. Unfortunately that is what you get with 4-2-3-1, or at least the way we have played it to date. But that is the Paul Cook system, and the new owners have bought into his system. So I think he has to be given time. For that reason, and the fact that it is not the Ipswich way to be trigger happy, I think he has to be given until the play-offs become mathematically impossible, which is a long way off. For what it is worth, I think we will probably make the play-offs because, despite the system, the players are good enough, but unless we are able to get greater control in games, I doubt we will make the top 2. And if it were down to me, I would prefer we play a similar system to MK Dons, which would suit players like Fraser and Piggot, who clearly have ability, but as someone suggested yesterday, are not particularly suited to our system. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 13:33]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:36 - Oct 31 with 803 views | Radlett_blue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:24 - Oct 31 by StokieBlue |
How much further is "a bit further"? I ask because if you're going to have opening posts which show stats based over a largish number of games then surely the data in those stats isn't going to change unless there are enough matches to shift the average? Otherwise you can essentially post the same thing for the next few matches regardless of the results.
Out of interest, could you name some of the "plenty out there"? I am interested to know what type of level/manager we think is realistic given our current ambitions. Cook was seen as pretty much seen as the best available manager in the lower divisions so I assume it's either someone up and coming or someone who usually managers at a higher level?
I don't think Cook is doing a great job, it would be very hard for anyone to argue he is. I do also think we are moving in the right direction and realistically on another day we would have drawn or won yesterday. Clearly the next few matches are absolutely vital but won't make a huge difference to the stats in your opening post either way.
Do we think he has to go if we lose 2 of the next 4 against promotion contenders?
SB |
Recruiting the right manager is fairly haphazard. Sheffield United - a similar size club - spent 5 seasons in this league, going through 5 managers before lucking out with Chris Wilder. While he had done pretty well at 3 smaller clubs (like Paul Hurst) I'm sure the Blunts fans didn't greet him as the new messiah. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:48 - Oct 31 with 770 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:36 - Oct 31 by Radlett_blue |
Recruiting the right manager is fairly haphazard. Sheffield United - a similar size club - spent 5 seasons in this league, going through 5 managers before lucking out with Chris Wilder. While he had done pretty well at 3 smaller clubs (like Paul Hurst) I'm sure the Blunts fans didn't greet him as the new messiah. |
I think you'd have Michael Appleton as bookie's fave in the eventuality. Fairly widely-known he was on the shortlist pre-Cook, a 4-2-3-1 guy, used to working in a more complex recruitment structure, must have been at least a little hacked off that his last team was dismantled from under him. Long contracts aren't that much of an obstacle if you've got money. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:53 - Oct 31 with 763 views | tractorshark |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:59 - Oct 31 by Pinewoodblue |
I don’t believe there is a single Town fan who doesn’t want Paul Cook to succeed. The reason being that we all want the club to succeed. No one want to see our decline continue.
To my mind we started the season unprepared for what was to come. The fixture list was favorable with the first 10 games mostly against teams not expected to be promotion challengers.
Perhaps Paul Cook was too involved in building the squad rather than building the team. Having one of the least experienced coaching team in League 1 hasn’t helped but that was PC’s choice.
Looking at yesterday and the illness of players. Had Burns been able to start and then get injured early on it is difficult to imagine he would have brought a left sided full back as substitute.
PC needs to start making the kind of progress everyone, including himself thinks he is capable of, as things stand Gamechanger are getting a poor return for the time and money invested in Paul Cook. |
I said my piece earlier but one genuine question for those who think a change is needed (either now or before Christmas)….
Who would you replace Cook with?
I’ve seen names mentioned that range from the fanciful to the unrealistic to the ridiculous, so who do we go for that would move us in the direction that some feel Cook is unable to?
I know people say money talks but are we truly in a position to cherry pick from above?
It’s worth remembering that despite our investment, we haven’t really signed anyone from a higher division club that they didn’t want to offload (the exception maybe being Chaplin). We may have beaten other suitors to their signatures but we haven’t wrestled them from a higher division club. So why would it be different with a manager?
Which means looking at out-of-work managers, up and coming managers in League One or Two, or bosses from abroad.
I certainly don’t think Cook is irreplaceable and I agree his record at Ipswich is poor. But if we are to ditch him, his replacement must be an improvement on what we have now.
In my mind, there is absolutely no point dumping Cook for another work-in-progress manager. We can’t keep spouting on about rebuilds and then altering the plans once the foundations have been laid.
Cook does appear to be going in the right direction but he may turn out to be a disaster. He wasn’t my first choice and I’m certainly not convinced. But unless we can land a manager capable of guaranteeing promotion this season, I’m not sure we’ll br any further on than we are now. If anything we could go backwards.
One crumb of comfort is my Pompey mates tell me Cook cocked up promotion in the first season there, learnt from his mistakes and they went up the year after. |  | | |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 14:02 - Oct 31 with 752 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 13:53 - Oct 31 by tractorshark |
I said my piece earlier but one genuine question for those who think a change is needed (either now or before Christmas)….
Who would you replace Cook with?
I’ve seen names mentioned that range from the fanciful to the unrealistic to the ridiculous, so who do we go for that would move us in the direction that some feel Cook is unable to?
I know people say money talks but are we truly in a position to cherry pick from above?
It’s worth remembering that despite our investment, we haven’t really signed anyone from a higher division club that they didn’t want to offload (the exception maybe being Chaplin). We may have beaten other suitors to their signatures but we haven’t wrestled them from a higher division club. So why would it be different with a manager?
Which means looking at out-of-work managers, up and coming managers in League One or Two, or bosses from abroad.
I certainly don’t think Cook is irreplaceable and I agree his record at Ipswich is poor. But if we are to ditch him, his replacement must be an improvement on what we have now.
In my mind, there is absolutely no point dumping Cook for another work-in-progress manager. We can’t keep spouting on about rebuilds and then altering the plans once the foundations have been laid.
Cook does appear to be going in the right direction but he may turn out to be a disaster. He wasn’t my first choice and I’m certainly not convinced. But unless we can land a manager capable of guaranteeing promotion this season, I’m not sure we’ll br any further on than we are now. If anything we could go backwards.
One crumb of comfort is my Pompey mates tell me Cook cocked up promotion in the first season there, learnt from his mistakes and they went up the year after. |
If the criteria is "must already have a better record than the incumbent" would we have got rid of Paul Lambert? After all, his CV was far more illustrious than Cook's, including an implausible promotion to the Premier League and finishing 12th in the top flight.
You move managers on when you judge it unlikely that they're going to succeed at the level you require, not because there are any guarantees that the next person will do. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 14:35 - Oct 31 with 716 views | itfcjoe |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:24 - Oct 31 by StokieBlue |
How much further is "a bit further"? I ask because if you're going to have opening posts which show stats based over a largish number of games then surely the data in those stats isn't going to change unless there are enough matches to shift the average? Otherwise you can essentially post the same thing for the next few matches regardless of the results.
Out of interest, could you name some of the "plenty out there"? I am interested to know what type of level/manager we think is realistic given our current ambitions. Cook was seen as pretty much seen as the best available manager in the lower divisions so I assume it's either someone up and coming or someone who usually managers at a higher level?
I don't think Cook is doing a great job, it would be very hard for anyone to argue he is. I do also think we are moving in the right direction and realistically on another day we would have drawn or won yesterday. Clearly the next few matches are absolutely vital but won't make a huge difference to the stats in your opening post either way.
Do we think he has to go if we lose 2 of the next 4 against promotion contenders?
SB |
I think we'll be in a position within 3 or 4 games where we know where we are - if we can continue/mirror the upward trajectory of the last 8-9 games then he deserves longer, if we regress to the mean somewhat and come out of that run of games having sld further away from the top 6 then I think you try and get a new man with a big enough run up to january.
The most likely scenario is that he falls somewhere between the two stools - not disastrous, and not flying which means we carry on most likely without clear idea of whether we are going well enough or not.
With regards to type of manager, it's difficult from this position to know - who would have expected us to be able to bring in players like Sam Morsy and Bersant Celina this summer - so money talks. I actually think we are one of the most attractive jobs in the EFL at the moment so we may surprise us if there is a manager hunt at the sort of level we could attract. There is obviously the Michael Appleton link again and that is where I would be heading with my money if there is a change made | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 14:57 - Oct 31 with 680 views | Vic |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 08:51 - Oct 31 by Herbivore |
I'm not really interested in what Swansea or Brighton players would say to be honest, I'm more concerned about how my club are doing. We're not doing very well, and that bothers me. |
Then I’d respectfully suggest that you should be! The article has direct relevance to our current situation. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:00 - Oct 31 with 668 views | tractorshark |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 14:02 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
If the criteria is "must already have a better record than the incumbent" would we have got rid of Paul Lambert? After all, his CV was far more illustrious than Cook's, including an implausible promotion to the Premier League and finishing 12th in the top flight.
You move managers on when you judge it unlikely that they're going to succeed at the level you require, not because there are any guarantees that the next person will do. |
Not sure where you’ve got “must already have a better record than the incumbent" from. I didn’t say that.
I said he must be an improvement on what we’ve got. By that I mean can he realistically deliver promotion this season or will we write off the season while the new man stamps his mark on the team?
Right now the jury is very much out on whether Cook can deliver promotion this season. But we can see signs of improvement.
If you can name me a replacement that can get us up this season, then fair enough. But if not, I genuinely believe we need to keep our nerve with Cook right now. We don’t need another rebuild.
Even if you disagree, the question remains…Who replaces him? | | | |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:01 - Oct 31 with 664 views | Herbivore |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 14:57 - Oct 31 by Vic |
Then I’d respectfully suggest that you should be! The article has direct relevance to our current situation. |
I've read it. It has nothing to do with our situation, imo. Paul Cook is not Graham Potter, sadly. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:06 - Oct 31 with 647 views | Vic |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 09:34 - Oct 31 by Funge |
QED.
I disagree with Joe on a fair few things, but your interpretation here is very unfair.
I want this football club to achieve something; like, you know, maybe a first promotion in 20 (!!) years.
The current manager has been fully indulged by the owners, and we have 20k supporters turning up at PR at present - berserk numbers for Division 3.
Cook's remit is to get us promoted - we're miles off that at the moment. It's not even being pro- or anti-Cook; this seasons task is to get us up.
We don't look anywhere close to that at present. |
Not going to disagree with you, apart from to question whether his brief was to get us promoted this season. Despite the passage of time I haven’t yet heard any of the owners, nor the Chairman nor the CEO say that. They have been totally consistent in saying that whilst promotion is the aim this season it is a long term project and we need to be patient, - the clear implication is that it isn’t promotion of bust this season for Cook.
It is us fans (or some of us) that have driven the agenda that promotion is a must this year - and it started when we began to see the quality of players being signed. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:22 - Oct 31 with 618 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:00 - Oct 31 by tractorshark |
Not sure where you’ve got “must already have a better record than the incumbent" from. I didn’t say that.
I said he must be an improvement on what we’ve got. By that I mean can he realistically deliver promotion this season or will we write off the season while the new man stamps his mark on the team?
Right now the jury is very much out on whether Cook can deliver promotion this season. But we can see signs of improvement.
If you can name me a replacement that can get us up this season, then fair enough. But if not, I genuinely believe we need to keep our nerve with Cook right now. We don’t need another rebuild.
Even if you disagree, the question remains…Who replaces him? |
I assumed you were asking that because the answer to "who could do better than this season so far" is a list as long as my arm!
At the time of writing there are 10 managers whose teams have accumulated more points than Cook. Adjust for budget and there's a bunch more who would have a legitimate claim to be out-performing him this season.
You keep Cook because you trust him to improve and don't want the disruption, not because it would be desperately hard to find someone who could get this group of players above 11th! | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:27 - Oct 31 with 601 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:22 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
I assumed you were asking that because the answer to "who could do better than this season so far" is a list as long as my arm!
At the time of writing there are 10 managers whose teams have accumulated more points than Cook. Adjust for budget and there's a bunch more who would have a legitimate claim to be out-performing him this season.
You keep Cook because you trust him to improve and don't want the disruption, not because it would be desperately hard to find someone who could get this group of players above 11th! |
The first task was to assemble a squad good enough to gain promotion this season, and to push on next,
Just need to make it work. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:36 - Oct 31 with 584 views | Vic |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:01 - Oct 31 by Herbivore |
I've read it. It has nothing to do with our situation, imo. Paul Cook is not Graham Potter, sadly. |
The point the players of both clubs made was that whilst the results didn’t improve immediately they were happy with that because they could see things changing and a philosophy being imbedded and believed results would pick up accordingly with time.
We (the fans) don’t seem to want to afford the present manager the same privilege. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:37 - Oct 31 with 582 views | tractorshark |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:22 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
I assumed you were asking that because the answer to "who could do better than this season so far" is a list as long as my arm!
At the time of writing there are 10 managers whose teams have accumulated more points than Cook. Adjust for budget and there's a bunch more who would have a legitimate claim to be out-performing him this season.
You keep Cook because you trust him to improve and don't want the disruption, not because it would be desperately hard to find someone who could get this group of players above 11th! |
You’re full of assumptions but still no names.
But to confirm yes you’re right Cook is underperforming. Do I think John Coleman will improve us because Accrington are 10th? No.
I’m not sold by Cook, never have been but my reasoning right now is based on the direction we are heading. After the Bolton game, I thought he’d be gone by November at the latest but there have been signs of improvement and, because of that, I would give him the season.
You may not agree and that’s fair enough but again the question still stands. If not Cook, then who? | | | |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:38 - Oct 31 with 579 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 15:36 - Oct 31 by Vic |
The point the players of both clubs made was that whilst the results didn’t improve immediately they were happy with that because they could see things changing and a philosophy being imbedded and believed results would pick up accordingly with time.
We (the fans) don’t seem to want to afford the present manager the same privilege. |
Most stories of underachievement don't finish that way. | |
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