| Last season vs this season for Cook 06:33 - Oct 31 with 14695 views | itfcjoe |
Last season
P16 W4 D7 L5 - 19 points
This season
P15 W5 D5 L5 - 20 points
Wycombe away to come on Tuesday. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 7:56]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:18 - Oct 31 with 815 views | Herbivore |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:10 - Oct 31 by Guthrum |
Town have carried out a major renovation project and he's been given just three months to make it work.
A structural problem with football is that there is no time for development. Messing up the first quarter of a season while you get a new setup to function badly damages your chances of promotion. Ironing out issues (like a malfunctioning defence) has to be done in action, with all the risks that entails.
A handful of preseason games (often against lower or higher-level opposition and with non-standard conditions such as using different lineups for each half) is no adequate preparation. Especially given the transfer window system means your full squad is unlikely to be assembled until a month after the League has actually started.
So you could have a scenario where a decent squad has been assembled, things are beginning to come together tactically, looking like it will become a really effective unit by the latter part of the season - but poor results and falling out of contention for promotion sees the Manager sacked in November or December and a new man has to come in and work with players and a tactical philosophy which is not his own. More changes follow and the process starts again - but is almost certainly going to take another season anyway. So little is really gained. |
I think that's a bit of an oversimplification and there are plenty of examples of managers coming in to squads that they haven't assembled and being able to immediately improve them. I am unconvinced we're seeing sufficient improvement under Cook here, happy to see how this next batch of games go but I worry we'll find ourselves even further behind and he doesn't look capable of getting us on the kind of sustained run we'd need to compete for the top 6. Another manager might be able to. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:19 - Oct 31 with 808 views | footers |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:18 - Oct 31 by BlueBadger |
Even Cook himself stopped talking about players needing to 'gel' about 6 games ago. |
Good to see.
That look is so 90s anyway. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:20 - Oct 31 with 800 views | BlueBadger |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:19 - Oct 31 by footers |
Good to see.
That look is so 90s anyway. |
I think he's more a Mr Sheen man. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:21 - Oct 31 with 803 views | Herbivore |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:13 - Oct 31 by Fixed_It |
His record at previous clubs speaks for itself. He clearly knows what he is doing, its just not quite clicking yet. |
I don't much care about what he's done at other clubs. Hurst had done well elsewhere too. Cook hasn't done a good job here, he's not even done an average job, he's done a really poor job thus far. How long can we let that continue before cutting our losses? Let's hope it does click eventually but we're 30+ games into his tenure and it's not clicked yet. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:21 - Oct 31 with 799 views | pennyfathersleg |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 07:29 - Oct 31 by Herbivore |
Indeed. We can't keep having games where we say "The result is disappointing but......". We just don't have the luxury of being able to do that after a poor start to the season. The defeat yesterday means we took 10 points from our 6 games in October, that's fewer than we needed to take to start making up ground on the sides above us. It's 6th best in the division over that period but the 5 sides above us in the form table are in the top 6 in the league and so that gap is getting bigger.
And much as Plymouth are in good form, compare their line up and squad to ours player for player and does anyone really think they are a side we should be expecting to get nothing against? And if it's a case that their players are better organised and better coached than ours then how long do we keep excusing that, given how long Cook has been here now?
We really need to get something from the Wycombe game, ideally all three points. If we lose again on Tuesday the rest of the season is going to look like a tough old slog and I think questions of whether it's going to work for Cook here would be legitimate. |
I was thinking about this. I wouldn’t swap any of our players for their’s (except James Wilson!). I would swap their manager for ours though! |  | | |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:21 - Oct 31 with 804 views | N2_Blue |
Many of the replies in this thread just reinforces the fact that a large proportion of our fans are happy with mediocrity and seeing some goals.
Saying oh but we are top scorers so it’s ok and continually bleating ‘but what if…’ is shying away from what has happened this season.
‘What if’ anything? What if we took every chance we ever had, we be top of the league. Every team on every Saturday can say what if they’d taken that chance or got that decision. Every team.
What matters and counts is what actually happens.
What has actually happened with Cook is won 5 drawn 5 lost 5 and that is simply not good enough. With this squad it is poor and anyone who doesn’t agree is kidding themselves. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:23 - Oct 31 with 786 views | SomethingBlue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 07:52 - Oct 31 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I really don't see the point in comparing last season with this. They're two totally different teams and two totally different sets of circumstances. I know you're trying to infer he's pretty much done the same, but no, the records being similar is merely a coincidence. |
Really don't know about that — and nor do any of us at the end of the day ... but you could plausibly reach the polar opposite conclusion. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 10:23]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:27 - Oct 31 with 775 views | ColchesterBlue1985 |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:21 - Oct 31 by N2_Blue |
Many of the replies in this thread just reinforces the fact that a large proportion of our fans are happy with mediocrity and seeing some goals.
Saying oh but we are top scorers so it’s ok and continually bleating ‘but what if…’ is shying away from what has happened this season.
‘What if’ anything? What if we took every chance we ever had, we be top of the league. Every team on every Saturday can say what if they’d taken that chance or got that decision. Every team.
What matters and counts is what actually happens.
What has actually happened with Cook is won 5 drawn 5 lost 5 and that is simply not good enough. With this squad it is poor and anyone who doesn’t agree is kidding themselves. |
We appear to have totally neglected the defensive side to training and concentrated solely on attacking. For this group of players to be as weak defensively as they are is embarrassing. It comes from the coaching at the end of the day. At the level we are at we have a squad of top players not just a starting 11. However we have league 2 coaches in my view and that is reflective by the results on the pitch. Cook has surrounded himself with mates rather than the correct coaching staff to get the best of out of these players and this and this alone will cost him his job. We had better coaches last season than we do now, pathetic. | | | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:30 - Oct 31 with 766 views | Guthrum |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:17 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
I'm always puzzled by this certainty that teams generally get better and better if you just give them time. I just don't see the evidence that patience is so productive.
As far as I can see the majority of squad/manager combinations hit a particular level after 20 games or so and that's it, with the odd fluctuation in form that's their level until the manager or the squad change. |
The majority of changes are not as root-and-branch as we've experienced over the last summer. So it's not unreasonable to expect things to take a bit longer than usual to come together. Also, we're not at 20 League games with the new team yet (it's only 7 if you date it from Morsy's first match).
In addition, things are boiling down to two issues - individual mistakes at the back and lack of composure in front of goals. We're playing more attacking football, creating good chances, but not capitalising on them. We've also stopped that horrible leakiness. Since the Lincoln game, we've been conceding on average just one goal a game in the League, down from 2.14 before that.
Indeed, from Lincoln on, we're W5 D2 L2, which is more than decent form. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:31 - Oct 31 with 756 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:07 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
You don’t drop as many points as we have through bad luck either. There’s something engrained with this squad, it’s the same issues over and over again and do we feel like we’re sorting them out? Some may say yes, I have my doubts. Admittedly, there were extenuating circumstances at Plymouth and if we were sitting on Rotherham or Wigan’s (another team which has had massive churn) record we would shrug it off. But every match is massive now and we cannot afford to throw away too many more points. |
I don't disagree with anything you've said there and I don't think you're disagreeing with me either! |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:33 - Oct 31 with 745 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:10 - Oct 31 by Guthrum |
Town have carried out a major renovation project and he's been given just three months to make it work.
A structural problem with football is that there is no time for development. Messing up the first quarter of a season while you get a new setup to function badly damages your chances of promotion. Ironing out issues (like a malfunctioning defence) has to be done in action, with all the risks that entails.
A handful of preseason games (often against lower or higher-level opposition and with non-standard conditions such as using different lineups for each half) is no adequate preparation. Especially given the transfer window system means your full squad is unlikely to be assembled until a month after the League has actually started.
So you could have a scenario where a decent squad has been assembled, things are beginning to come together tactically, looking like it will become a really effective unit by the latter part of the season - but poor results and falling out of contention for promotion sees the Manager sacked in November or December and a new man has to come in and work with players and a tactical philosophy which is not his own. More changes follow and the process starts again - but is almost certainly going to take another season anyway. So little is really gained. |
This is exactly my point but you put it so well Guthers. Cheers! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:34 - Oct 31 with 746 views | itfcjoe |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:17 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
I'm always puzzled by this certainty that teams generally get better and better if you just give them time. I just don't see the evidence that patience is so productive.
As far as I can see the majority of squad/manager combinations hit a particular level after 20 games or so and that's it, with the odd fluctuation in form that's their level until the manager or the squad change. |
Also an argument that the powers that ve should be trying to implement a structure and football club that is ‘manager-proof’ - being in a position where if the manager is failing you can change him and his direct staff without it feeling like the biggest deal ever.
I assume that is where we will end up, and Cook just a necessary evil to try and lead us to the league above whilst that is put in place….but if he doesn’t get results then the process may need to be expedited | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:42 - Oct 31 with 719 views | leitrimblue |
Your Burns 7 user name is more amusing |  | | |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:47 - Oct 31 with 700 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:12 - Oct 31 by footers |
Indeed. We were just sh1t. And the blame for that lies squarely with Cook. In much the same way thay our recent form does.
I'm happy to just judge on this season alone and forget the last, but we're underachieving badly relative to budget and expectations. And I'm afraid Cook must take the blame for it, lovely bloke though he is. |
Our recent form is good though. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:48 - Oct 31 with 698 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:17 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
I'm always puzzled by this certainty that teams generally get better and better if you just give them time. I just don't see the evidence that patience is so productive.
As far as I can see the majority of squad/manager combinations hit a particular level after 20 games or so and that's it, with the odd fluctuation in form that's their level until the manager or the squad change. |
We haven't had 20 games with this squad yet. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:00 - Oct 31 with 677 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:21 - Oct 31 by N2_Blue |
Many of the replies in this thread just reinforces the fact that a large proportion of our fans are happy with mediocrity and seeing some goals.
Saying oh but we are top scorers so it’s ok and continually bleating ‘but what if…’ is shying away from what has happened this season.
‘What if’ anything? What if we took every chance we ever had, we be top of the league. Every team on every Saturday can say what if they’d taken that chance or got that decision. Every team.
What matters and counts is what actually happens.
What has actually happened with Cook is won 5 drawn 5 lost 5 and that is simply not good enough. With this squad it is poor and anyone who doesn’t agree is kidding themselves. |
That's massively insulting to fellow Town fans. We all want what's best for the club. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:02 - Oct 31 with 664 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:30 - Oct 31 by Guthrum |
The majority of changes are not as root-and-branch as we've experienced over the last summer. So it's not unreasonable to expect things to take a bit longer than usual to come together. Also, we're not at 20 League games with the new team yet (it's only 7 if you date it from Morsy's first match).
In addition, things are boiling down to two issues - individual mistakes at the back and lack of composure in front of goals. We're playing more attacking football, creating good chances, but not capitalising on them. We've also stopped that horrible leakiness. Since the Lincoln game, we've been conceding on average just one goal a game in the League, down from 2.14 before that.
Indeed, from Lincoln on, we're W5 D2 L2, which is more than decent form. |
We're 75% of the way there and by the end of November, that'll be 20. Hopefully by the end of the month we look like one of the best 2 teams in the division. It obviously still wouldn't be reflected in the league position, but it'll be fairly obvious on the pitch if we are.
If we aren't, then we probably won't be this season and patience won't change that. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:05 - Oct 31 with 664 views | Radlett_blue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 10:21 - Oct 31 by Herbivore |
I don't much care about what he's done at other clubs. Hurst had done well elsewhere too. Cook hasn't done a good job here, he's not even done an average job, he's done a really poor job thus far. How long can we let that continue before cutting our losses? Let's hope it does click eventually but we're 30+ games into his tenure and it's not clicked yet. |
Indeed, Keane had done well at Sunderland & Jewell had got Bradford & Wigan promoted. However, they were both terrible at Town. The Evans format of picking managers with a history of success at the same level made some sense, but wasn't a panacea. |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:09 - Oct 31 with 643 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:05 - Oct 31 by Radlett_blue |
Indeed, Keane had done well at Sunderland & Jewell had got Bradford & Wigan promoted. However, they were both terrible at Town. The Evans format of picking managers with a history of success at the same level made some sense, but wasn't a panacea. |
If you look at the better-performing managers in L1 at the moment there's a few with not much track record before their current job.
Ryan Lowe - one promotion from L2
Leam Richardson - first job
Liam Manning - first job in the EFL | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:49 - Oct 31 with 601 views | wkj |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 07:37 - Oct 31 by Romeo4 |
So what’s your suggestion Joe? Sack Cook? Appoint who? |
It's a shame that Joe tends to cherry-pick that he replies to, and ignores people/comments he deems unworthy. This question is a very good question.
You have a lot you don't like about Cook Joe - and trust us, we get it. Instead of highlighting the never-ending drool strand of sadness - how would you fix it and with who? |  |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:57 - Oct 31 with 584 views | Radlett_blue |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:09 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
If you look at the better-performing managers in L1 at the moment there's a few with not much track record before their current job.
Ryan Lowe - one promotion from L2
Leam Richardson - first job
Liam Manning - first job in the EFL |
Hmm...a promising young manager called Paul Hurst didn't actually cut it at Town, did he, although the big problem was the best players were sold & replaced by average League 1 players.
Hiring any manager is a gamble. Yes, managers often need time, especially if they're building a team from scratch. Cook has not impressed so far, but it's too early to get rid as putting in a Warnock-type as a short term measure is no guarantee. Cook should be given to end December, but if Town are still in mid table, the owners may decide enough is enough. However, getting in a random manager then might well be no better. More likely he gets the season & once even the play offs are out of reach, the owners will be seriously looking for a new man. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:58 - Oct 31 with 579 views | jayessess |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:49 - Oct 31 by wkj |
It's a shame that Joe tends to cherry-pick that he replies to, and ignores people/comments he deems unworthy. This question is a very good question.
You have a lot you don't like about Cook Joe - and trust us, we get it. Instead of highlighting the never-ending drool strand of sadness - how would you fix it and with who? |
Given the amount of time everyone spent praising our new CEO to the hills this Summer, I'm not sure why there's all this angst about Paul Cook being the only person who could possibly make a successful manager for Ipswich Town.
If it comes time for Cook to go (and it hasn't quite yet), then it'll be up to the very expensively remunerated senior management team to find someone who'll do a better job, not Joe. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 12:05]
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:01 - Oct 31 with 565 views | footers |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:49 - Oct 31 by wkj |
It's a shame that Joe tends to cherry-pick that he replies to, and ignores people/comments he deems unworthy. This question is a very good question.
You have a lot you don't like about Cook Joe - and trust us, we get it. Instead of highlighting the never-ending drool strand of sadness - how would you fix it and with who? |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:04 - Oct 31 with 558 views | wkj |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 11:58 - Oct 31 by jayessess |
Given the amount of time everyone spent praising our new CEO to the hills this Summer, I'm not sure why there's all this angst about Paul Cook being the only person who could possibly make a successful manager for Ipswich Town.
If it comes time for Cook to go (and it hasn't quite yet), then it'll be up to the very expensively remunerated senior management team to find someone who'll do a better job, not Joe. [Post edited 31 Oct 2021 12:05]
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Of course, though we surely all have ideas on what we would like to see, and how we see improvements in our own thoughts. The barrage of posts about Cook's failings without any real thought about solutions of theories to improve begin to start coming across as someone trying to sway opinion. | |
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| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:04 - Oct 31 with 556 views | wkj |
| Last season vs this season for Cook on 12:01 - Oct 31 by footers |
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There we go - someone with a real go-getter attitude making go-getter suggestions. | |
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