| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? 12:35 - Nov 8 with 15220 views | itfcjoe |
If they want to retain power in 5 years time.....because the same playbook will be being used by the same people on the right of our politics.
- Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose.
- Immigration has to be seen to be under control, whether it is or isn't
- There is a big misinformation and disinformation war going on, they need to get their generals in the game before they are too far behind to come back in this. What do they need to do to go up against the Steve Bannon's and Elon Musk's off the world.
- Give the working classes something to believe in, and that needs to come from the bottom up and not the top down. They have to respect the working classes, listen to them and not tell them why they are wrong, why they don't like them, why they are a constant let down to the bourgeoisie.
- Be fun, have a twinkle in their eye and a laugh at times. People like Angela Rayner manage it well, don't be so serious all the time.
Just spit balling, sure people will be along to tell me wrong I am soon! [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 12:37]
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:46 - Nov 8 with 6530 views | LeoMuff |
They will have to get the numbers crossing the channel down by hook or by crook, if this has exploded or continued by the next election they are toast.
Need to sort out cost of living - hopefully Ukraine will be decided, I would go with reconsidering free movement of goods/people as would be economic boost.
Looks like the NHS is getting a focus, they need a plan for social care as fixing that would significantly solve some nhs woes. I would look to nationalise some care and provide incentives poeople to joint care agencies eg tax free, apprenticeships. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:47 - Nov 8 with 6533 views | Illinoisblue |
The right are very good at firing up their base and that’s partly because their base is less educated; Labour/Dems need to work on their soundbites and slogans as that’s a huge part of the war. Of course it should be a grown-up discussion about policy and ideas but that ship has long sailed.
Trump went big with “immigrants are eating dogs” and American towns being “invaded by illegals”…. Hard to counter that stuff - even when it’s a blatant lie - so to your point the Left need to get ahead of it. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:51 - Nov 8 with 6500 views | Steve_M |
One big one, despite the fact that Trump's policies are also inflationary people are very aware of prices going up.
- Don't be in power for a period of globally high inflation. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:02 - Nov 8 with 6410 views | NthQldITFC |
I think that's a good starting point to kind of neutralise some of the threat from the right, but I think they have a slim but desperately needed opportunity to move the masses into a more socially and environmentally focussed way of being.
They need to be completely transparent about the real challenges of the future, not sell a growth-at-all-costs-fixes-all story, and they need to start a socially orientated movement for correcting the hideous and increasing imbalance of wealth, and moving to a 'sustainable' (or at least far less unsustainable) economic model focussed on health and happiness, not money piles, and provide a little bit of hope for future generations.
It would be a tough sell, but there's no responsible alternative, and there ought to be enough decent voters out there to recognise the need for a rebalancing, even if it comes at the cost of some luxury. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:08 - Nov 8 with 6372 views | lowhouseblue |
to some extent it's the other way round. what do the democrats need to learn from labour? it's the economy stupid. labour campaigned on the cost of living and the economy. for labour to win again people (not just the middle class who already all vote labour) need to feel better off, plus immigration needs to be under control (that's people crossing the channel in boats and total net migration). feeling better off is both public services that work and having more cash to spend. achieve that and much of the rest (wokeness etc) becomes irrelevant. this labour government is one huge gamble on growth, that in 5 years productivity will have risen, incomes will have risen, and we'll be able to afford better public services and more stuff int he shops. the main thing the democracts need to learn is to appeal to people they don't like - labour also needs to remember that lesson. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:11 - Nov 8 with 6315 views | ElephantintheRoom |
In the short term all they need do is let Badenough and Bobby J drag the Conservatives further into the mire.
In three years assuming nothing much had changed they’ll have to get rid of Starmer and elect Streeting with a catchy three word slogan. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:57 - Nov 8 with 6160 views | MattinLondon |
If the Brexit referendum, Trump and Boris Johnson’s election wins have anything in common is that the thickos will always back a charismatic liar who swears that they have their backs.
Starmer isn’t exactly charismatic, isn’t shameless enough to believe his own lies and doesn’t have a posh boy accent which fools people into making them believe that he’s highly intelligent.
Luckily for him, he’s up against a bunch of simpletons who lack self-awareness and personality.
Labour should win again but if the Tories latch onto hate-preacher Farage then the band of merry xenophobes might well cause Starmer a lot of problems. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:22 - Nov 8 with 6071 views | hype313 |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:57 - Nov 8 by MattinLondon |
If the Brexit referendum, Trump and Boris Johnson’s election wins have anything in common is that the thickos will always back a charismatic liar who swears that they have their backs.
Starmer isn’t exactly charismatic, isn’t shameless enough to believe his own lies and doesn’t have a posh boy accent which fools people into making them believe that he’s highly intelligent.
Luckily for him, he’s up against a bunch of simpletons who lack self-awareness and personality.
Labour should win again but if the Tories latch onto hate-preacher Farage then the band of merry xenophobes might well cause Starmer a lot of problems. |
It will be down to the economy, Just like how Trump won, people were asked if they were better off or not and the resounding feedback was no (albeit every economy is still being dragged down by Covid) so if Labour's growth plans and improvements in public services really start to show in everyone's pocket and day to day lives, then they have a very real chance of winning again, however, if growth is sclerotic, nothing really changes, immigration is still high and pensioners heating bills continue to rise then they are toast.
The next big thing to watch out for is strikes by Farmers, if they do, and stop supplying supermarkets, then the toilet roll panic buying will be a drop in the ocean in comparison. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:33 - Nov 8 with 6027 views | Lamp |
Based on what I heard from him on the Rest of Politics live stream if they can keep Peter Hyman around they will certainly be in a good place to help counter that. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:37 - Nov 8 with 5978 views | MattinLondon |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:22 - Nov 8 by hype313 |
It will be down to the economy, Just like how Trump won, people were asked if they were better off or not and the resounding feedback was no (albeit every economy is still being dragged down by Covid) so if Labour's growth plans and improvements in public services really start to show in everyone's pocket and day to day lives, then they have a very real chance of winning again, however, if growth is sclerotic, nothing really changes, immigration is still high and pensioners heating bills continue to rise then they are toast.
The next big thing to watch out for is strikes by Farmers, if they do, and stop supplying supermarkets, then the toilet roll panic buying will be a drop in the ocean in comparison. |
Be interesting to see how a possible Farmers strike is reported or, whether the public has sympathy for them. A lot of goodwill towards junior docs, not so much for railworkers. Wondering where farmers will fit into all this. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:44 - Nov 8 with 5946 views | Illinoisblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:22 - Nov 8 by hype313 |
It will be down to the economy, Just like how Trump won, people were asked if they were better off or not and the resounding feedback was no (albeit every economy is still being dragged down by Covid) so if Labour's growth plans and improvements in public services really start to show in everyone's pocket and day to day lives, then they have a very real chance of winning again, however, if growth is sclerotic, nothing really changes, immigration is still high and pensioners heating bills continue to rise then they are toast.
The next big thing to watch out for is strikes by Farmers, if they do, and stop supplying supermarkets, then the toilet roll panic buying will be a drop in the ocean in comparison. |
I don’t think it’s “the economy” as much as it’s prices of stuff at the supermarket. The U.S economy is doing fantastically well under Biden - low unemployment, stock market at all time high, inflation coming down, gas prices coming down - but eggs and bacon are 30 cents more expensive so fk all of that. This is how people think. | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:18 - Nov 8 with 5841 views | thebooks |
You’re never going to out-immigration the far right, so take the sting out of it by focusing on areas where you can materially improve people’s lives rather than trying to appear “tough on immigration but in a nicer way.”
Don’t go anti-woke. You need to build a coalition. Again, you won’t out-prejudice the far-right.
Offer some policies that directly address things like inflation and the cost-of-living. Adopt some left-populist policies.
Don’t make the choice “choose us nice sensible people or them with the fascist agenda”.
Don’t throw up your arms and say “sorry, you can’t have nice things”. Don’t constrain yourself with nonsense fiscal rules made up by the Tories. Don’t fight 1997’s battle. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:23 - Nov 8 with 5816 views | brazil1982 |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:57 - Nov 8 by MattinLondon |
If the Brexit referendum, Trump and Boris Johnson’s election wins have anything in common is that the thickos will always back a charismatic liar who swears that they have their backs.
Starmer isn’t exactly charismatic, isn’t shameless enough to believe his own lies and doesn’t have a posh boy accent which fools people into making them believe that he’s highly intelligent.
Luckily for him, he’s up against a bunch of simpletons who lack self-awareness and personality.
Labour should win again but if the Tories latch onto hate-preacher Farage then the band of merry xenophobes might well cause Starmer a lot of problems. |
Are you Harry in disguise? |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:26 - Nov 8 with 5795 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
One word, three letters: lie. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:32 - Nov 8 with 5748 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:57 - Nov 8 by MattinLondon |
If the Brexit referendum, Trump and Boris Johnson’s election wins have anything in common is that the thickos will always back a charismatic liar who swears that they have their backs.
Starmer isn’t exactly charismatic, isn’t shameless enough to believe his own lies and doesn’t have a posh boy accent which fools people into making them believe that he’s highly intelligent.
Luckily for him, he’s up against a bunch of simpletons who lack self-awareness and personality.
Labour should win again but if the Tories latch onto hate-preacher Farage then the band of merry xenophobes might well cause Starmer a lot of problems. |
Lesson 5. Stop insulting the people who don’t vote for you. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:35 - Nov 8 with 5721 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:32 - Nov 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Lesson 5. Stop insulting the people who don’t vote for you. |
i don't see much of that happening from labour politicians, but they certainly shouldn't start! | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:41 - Nov 8 with 5656 views | leitrimblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:57 - Nov 8 by MattinLondon |
If the Brexit referendum, Trump and Boris Johnson’s election wins have anything in common is that the thickos will always back a charismatic liar who swears that they have their backs.
Starmer isn’t exactly charismatic, isn’t shameless enough to believe his own lies and doesn’t have a posh boy accent which fools people into making them believe that he’s highly intelligent.
Luckily for him, he’s up against a bunch of simpletons who lack self-awareness and personality.
Labour should win again but if the Tories latch onto hate-preacher Farage then the band of merry xenophobes might well cause Starmer a lot of problems. |
If Labour continues not to represent pensioners for example, and the poorest in society in general then there unfortunately leaving the field completely open for the likes of Reform and Farage. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:11 - Nov 8 with 5519 views | nrb1985 |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:51 - Nov 8 by Steve_M |
One big one, despite the fact that Trump's policies are also inflationary people are very aware of prices going up.
- Don't be in power for a period of globally high inflation. |
I have sympathy for this view and that's probably what swung it.
However, the Dems were absolutely appalling at putting out the msg that the U.S. economy and stock market is the envy of the world right now.
And were equally abject at pointing out how Trump's policies are economically illiterate.
They seem to have assumed that the average person in the street was capable of surmising those things for themselves... | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:21 - Nov 8 with 5473 views | Kievthegreat |
I agree with most, but I'd have 2 counter points.
Culture war is not as strong a topic in the UK (albeit it is not negligable). The Tories fought the last election on "woke" and it didn't really help them at all. Especially if there is another party already doing 'better' (for lack of a better word) on that front in Reform! The only thing I'd suggest is be woke as it's the socially responsible thing, but don't make it the be all and end all of your political message. Let the Tories wail about it and don't get dragged down.
The other thing is to make sure the economy is doing better! I saw in the Financial times that this is the first year that every single incumbent has lost vote share in every major election held. Inflation hurting your living costs is universally crap and everyone, rich or poor can immediately feel and understand that impact. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:22 - Nov 8 with 5475 views | DJR |
"Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose."
I think Labour have toned this down already, but to me it is very sad and a retreat from the social liberalism (or wokeness) that Cameron and Osborne embraced with enthusiasm.
Sadly, the anti-woke agenda has been imported from the States, and is influenced to a large degree by the religious right for whom people like the LGBT community are an abhorrence. [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 16:22]
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:33 - Nov 8 with 5397 views | giant_stow |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:22 - Nov 8 by DJR |
"Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose."
I think Labour have toned this down already, but to me it is very sad and a retreat from the social liberalism (or wokeness) that Cameron and Osborne embraced with enthusiasm.
Sadly, the anti-woke agenda has been imported from the States, and is influenced to a large degree by the religious right for whom people like the LGBT community are an abhorrence. [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 16:22]
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I think there's a way of talking about 'woke' matters without using that word, which is now utterly political and partisan.
Maybe I have this wrong, but talking about basic respect, human dignity, equality of opportunity and above all, tolerance towards others has more legs than the lecturing on cultural issues we sometimes see. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:35 - Nov 8 with 5391 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:22 - Nov 8 by DJR |
"Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose."
I think Labour have toned this down already, but to me it is very sad and a retreat from the social liberalism (or wokeness) that Cameron and Osborne embraced with enthusiasm.
Sadly, the anti-woke agenda has been imported from the States, and is influenced to a large degree by the religious right for whom people like the LGBT community are an abhorrence. [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 16:22]
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agreed, but i'd say the "american religious right", not really a thing here | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:36 - Nov 8 with 5390 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:33 - Nov 8 by giant_stow |
I think there's a way of talking about 'woke' matters without using that word, which is now utterly political and partisan.
Maybe I have this wrong, but talking about basic respect, human dignity, equality of opportunity and above all, tolerance towards others has more legs than the lecturing on cultural issues we sometimes see. |
Unfortunately, it has become a pejorative term and is instantly applied by a segment of society to absolutely anything which might even slightly be aimed at making the world a little kinder or fairer. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:39 - Nov 8 with 5369 views | Ftnfwest |
A lot of that is true, I think at the centre of it all normal working class Americans were fed up with having liberal ideology forced on them day and night and their non-compliance, or perceived non-compliance meaning them being classified as Nazis or far right.
The fact that a lot of that ideology was being elucidated by billionaires, pop and film stars probably didn’t help.
All of this is (as is often the case with the US) a lot more extreme than is happening here, but it’s the same issues at heart.
Even Trump with everything that’s been happening with him I thought (for him) was pretty low key which may have helped him as well. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:40 - Nov 8 with 5363 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:36 - Nov 8 by redrickstuhaart |
Unfortunately, it has become a pejorative term and is instantly applied by a segment of society to absolutely anything which might even slightly be aimed at making the world a little kinder or fairer. |
it's tricky, the word needs redefining, but how?
"wokeness" is basically fairness, a very british value, treating people as you'd like to be treated. | |
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